The True Cost Of #occupynigeria - Politics (2) - Nairaland
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How NLC And TUC Betrayed #occupynigeria: An Insider Account / #occupynigeria: Lagos Protest At Gani Fawehinmi Park, Ojota. / #occupynigeria Protest Goes Cyber. Govt Officials Private Numbers Released (2) (3) (4)
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by AZeD1(m): 12:41pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
gonon:How do you expect a government that refuses to fight corruption do anything reasonable with the money gotten from removing subsidy? If GEJ really has an idea of what he wants to do, he would fight corruption and at the same time, use the "small money" he has to do something reasonable with it then may be Nigerians can trust him. |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by gonon: 12:49pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
@A-zed, again thats what the protest would have helped achieve. Push the government to action or better still force the idiots that put us in this mess, to come out and face the music, Afterall democracy is government by the people for the people,  |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by nosa2(m): 12:55pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
There are two conversations going on, one against corruption the other against subsidy, and one needs to stop. It's childish to place the removal of subsidy on the condition that you must fight corruption because it simply means that you're telling politicians that you can loot as long as you keep subsidy. I'm not here to argue the rightness or wrongness of removing subsidy but rather just to highlight the economic realities of the choices we make. Weather we like it or not every choice leads to a different solution and the choice we made in January would lead us down a path and I believe it's only fair to highlight the result of those choices. |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by Demdem(m): 12:57pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
Demdem: gonon: Then why are u here. That my friend is the basis of this thread. TRUE COST OF OCCUPYNIGERIA. u goof. thanks. |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by maddock(m): 1:07pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
@ OP which subsidy are you talking about? Is it the type we have been seeing during the fuel probe by the House of reps. Member than you are the one who has sand in his brains. Have you not been seeing how mind boggling revelations are been made since the commenecement of the probe. Am really smh at u and beaf.mtseeeeeeeew |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by gonon: 1:14pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
@Demdem, thanks for pointing out my goof. i appreciate it, sorry for telling you to go to school, perharps am the one who needs to. Bless. |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by Demdem(m): 1:18pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
gonon:  |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by muyoto: 2:18pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
nosa2: |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by flexdee(m): 2:35pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
@ poster and beaf, RUBBISH  |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by FrankC3: 2:56pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
Fact is that when Nigerians say 'you cannot remove fuel subsidy and still budget N1b for your feeding', they seem to be indirectly saying 'for us to accept your loot of N1b for feeding, you must allow us enjoy the 'loot' of fuel subsidy'. That is the ideological poverty behind they#occupy movement! |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by odedele: 3:42pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
#OCCUPY beaf! Notin like subsidy |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by Nobody: 4:56pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
By saying no to subsidy removal, Nigerians have unconsciously stopped a progressive momemtum for a vibrant economy. Free fuel is good, but any Nation that consume without producing will surely die economically. By the way, what is difference between the ordinary Nigerian who wants free fuel and Senator who want free bogus allowance? Both of them are milking Nigeria. Nigerians are mentally lazy and it is the ordinary Nigerian that becomes a Senator. Most of the people making noise here in the name of criticizing. do worse things at the little positions they occupy. While I am not giving excuses for misgovernance and irresponsibilty of those in government, Nigerians must know that with subsidy in place, marketters will still hoard & divert fuel to our own detriment. Presently, a litre of fuel sells for about N300 or more in some parts of Port Harcourt. People are suffering worse than if subsidy is removed. Well, if Nigeria survives militancy, it surely bow to the pressure of economic meltdown. I personally, I look forward to Biafra, a nation where innovation, productivity and exports will be the National policy. Of this, I have no apologies. |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by ojuejo(m): 5:12pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
am an economist and in as much as am in full support of the removal i have alot of question to ask the Op and the goverment that which was remove from kerosene and diesel since OBJ time what benefit do we gain from it and looking at our dear GEJ budget i wonder if he doesnt get salary alot should be asked and some1 comparing nigeria with greece i think the person actually knows little about what is going on in both countries enjoy |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by nosa2(m): 7:08pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
@ojuejo kerosene is still subsidized and l the removal is subsidy on diesel has meant that diesel is always available nationwide. Greece spent more than it earned, it borrowed more than it's economy could payback but unlike Nigeria they spent what they borrowed on infrastructure. We're even worse cause we're borrowing and spending it on unproductive consumption. When (not if) the chicken comes to roost the current pensioners dying in queues would seem like they're in paradise. The current generation is setting itself up for unimaginable poverty but the one thing that gives me solace is that they're the ones making the decisions that would bring about their own demise so they'll have no one to blame but themselves. |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by lagerwhenindoubt(m): 8:12pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
Let me add another analogy - How do you deal with Malaria? Take drugs? - or DEAL with the ENVIRONMENT that breeds mosquitoes allowing the disease to remain a sustainable business venture in Nigeria. Whether we choose to agree or disagree. there remains a deep-seated problem that no President can solve no matter the reforms or attempts at filling every pocket with Money just to ease the bitter taste of swallowing a bitter pill. A Nation is built on Institutions protected by the Constitution. An institution is merely a framework within which a government's activities "should" thrive to the benefit of all and sundry. A solid institution (Judiciary, Executive, Legislative) fosters a solid democracy. If the institutions are run by incompetent (corrupt, unqualified, tribal r.tards) leadership then you can be certain that the results will be just as we are experiencing presently. The Subsidy Probe ultimately exposed the FACT that corrupt practices do exist in a seemingly solid institution (that has sustained Nigeria thus far). Subsidy Removal is Economically Sound - But like i said, How do you keep treating a disease and allowing the environment which spawned the disease in the first place to flourish without restraint. How do you ensure the benefits of Subsidy Removal accrue in due time when you obviously have Corrupt Institutions critically-acclaimed for consistent, unrelenting character of undermining Progress and enthroning Mediocrity as a standard for success. Sometimes we carelessly look at National Matters with the Reasoning of Village Town-hall meeting. There is a bigger (happier) picture and time, patience and resolute commitment to this venture known as Nigeria is needed. An Institution cannot repair itself without the participation of its citizens (you and I). Paper-Reforms (without results) cannot repair the damage either. mistakes we do not correct today will only pile up with each passing day. thousands of Nigerians have died from mistakes made since the 1st Republic. those mistakes still haunt us to this day. I am wont to lash out at GEJ for all of Nigeria's problems, but have we not done that to "every" Nigerian President/Head Of State since Independence. It is not a 1-Man show, there are complex dynamics in this seemingly simple ball of yarn called Nigeria. If we unravel tomorrow it will not be as a result of poor political and economic leadership or ethic and religious intransigence. It will be as a result of our (Nigerians) refusal Stop and re-trace our footsteps and appropriately walk in the right direction. Subsidy Removal (though I am confused it really existed) is the right step in the right direction. All that needs to be kept in check are the vultures (Cabal, Brief-case Marketers, Sycophants, Political Warlords e.g Tinubu, Clueless Ministers, retardeen Governors and impatient citizens) Which would you prefer.? A Glass of Piss or A Glass of Piss Mixed with Water or A Glass of Water with a drop of Piss Corruption will always exist, you have to decide if you want to move on with your agenda and make it irrelevant or fight while your tenure expires |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by notababa: 9:04pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
The poster says 'something has to give'. Wouldn't it be super-dope if that thing that had to give was govt's irresponsibility and under-performance, Let a President who will perform and provide BASIC(imagine Nigerians begging for basic infrastructure in 2012) infrastructure say they need to increase fuel price and beg Nigerians to reason with him in a very humble way, and see how majority of Nigerians will grumble, but still let him go ahead. But no, DAM and all of them had to come on TV to talk down on Nigerians like, d**n man I'm still pisssssed off |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by samstradam: 11:47pm On Feb 21, 2012 |
I don't know why people are bothering themselves with OP opinions, seeing that he can't appreciate what the universal concept of goverment entails let alone grasp the simplest of parameters involved in setting up an anology [b] @jason123 your analogy is flawed[u] because the president is not your father,[/u] [/b]nobody is meant to provide anything for youGood try Jason123 but maybe we'd get further with these Beef-types if we spoke pidgin or sang a Tuface song to them. |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by jmaine: 12:28am On Feb 22, 2012 |
I can see some subsidy removal logic springing here and there . . .I can't be left out in this  . . .
The fuel subsidy scam is like a festering cancerous tissue due to the high systemic corruption . .and what do you do to such tissue . .you cut it off completely . . . |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by DaLover(m): 12:29am On Feb 22, 2012 |
every body wants to takcle corruption while keeping the structure that sustains corruption, it has not occured to most of the posters here that we would not be wasting time and energy investigating fuel subsidy corruption if it was deregulated and totally managed by the private sector, i wonder y govt in its right sences should continue running refineries, y do nigerians deserve to pay less than market price for pms or any other product? Which forward thinking country in the world with nigerias population provides blanket subsidies for all and sundary? Take a typical ministry, health ministry, the health minister has two jobs, one is policy formulation and heath regulation, the other is runnning hospitals, of course running hospitals is more lucrative because thats were the cash is, hospitals and such parastatals become avenues for political patronage, use to settle political sponsors and members, Imagin if all hospitals were privately run and minister was left to concentrate on her primary job of policy formulation and regulating the health sector, ensuring that hospitals meet standards etc, secondly imagin the lack of moral burden when the minister seals off a substandard hospital becase the govt does not run substandard hospitals. |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by DaLover(m): 12:40am On Feb 22, 2012 |
in a completely deregulated down stream sector, govt will not run refineries, refineries will buy products form oil producers at market prices minus cost of transport to foreign countries and products will be sold to nigerians at competitive prices, to say there is no subsidy or govt should allocate oil chealply to local refineries is creating the conditions for the corruption we r trying to fight, plus it dull and will put us in the kind of trouble the OP is talking about. Rininery margins are very thin and no major rifinerary will compete against a govt run refinery, Allow private people to come in now and create jobs, Has it occured to anybody that we do not need to export raw crude? Imagin if we has 15 refineries in the country and we insisted on exporting only refined products, can u imagin the boast to the economy in terms of uplisting the middle class? A more reasonable subsidy would be to provide tax breaks for refineries operating in country so that the refined products can get to the shores of foreign countries cheaper than what obtains on products refined in those countries, We senators are chopping we will chop tooo, the prevailing atitude of occupy nigeria, what a shame |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by DaLover(m): 12:50am On Feb 22, 2012 |
you cannot tell me u r fighting corruption without fighting for a change in the structure that encourages corruption, thats why some of us see it as just another political move to attack the president because he is from the SS, not because they r really interested in critizing but because of wht they feel they would loose. You what to end corruption than let each state, lga start generating revenue and paying taxes, let senetors and HOR member get salaries from the wards, lga, they represent, let the govt focus on being a promoter of ideal business enviroment, not mudding up the enviroment by participating in it, it is not about fighting individuals because if u replace this set with another set, we will have the same complaints after a while, Therefore you can agree with me that occupynigeria may turn out to be one of the costliest jokes in our lifetime |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by dayokanu(m): 1:00am On Feb 22, 2012 |
All these Retardeen apologist again yet none of them can tell us our daily fuel consumption |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by nosa2(m): 1:14am On Feb 22, 2012 |
People attack deregulation as if it's the corrupt government officials who'll suffer when the economy collapses. If the economy collapses in Nigeria with our poor infrastructure and already high poverty rates, it'll make Zimbabwe look like heaven, a more likely scenario is Somalia. The problem Nigerians have is that they don't understand the real effects of a collapsed economy, if we borrow so much that what we earn just be enough to cover interest payments, the government would have to cut salaries (which are already very low), sack workers (adding to an already high unemployment rate) and devalue the currency (making the poor get even poorer). Now I'm of the opinion that these measures would cause civil unrest ( just look at Greece and even they're developed) which with a weakened economy can't get tackled properly and with ridiculously high unemployment could most likely lead to war. If civil war breaks out who'll suffer? It's the same Protesters, the rich all have houses and investments abroad and they can move but the poor would be stuck here earning a valueless Naira. So weather you remove subsidy or not you're not touching the rich, if you keep subsidy the rich get richer, your economy collapses ANC the poor get starved out of existence. If you remove subsidy the rich still get richer because they'll setup refineries or invest in pipelines or many other support industries and as fir the poor, well they'll still be poor but at least they'll have a better chance of working themselves out of poverty. P.s with the price increase the Naira has appreciated 2% YTD, meaning everyone both rich or poor is richer by 2% (because we're an import dependent nation) now imagine what would have happened if there was total deregulation. I actually predict that if we stopped importing fuel the Naira would exchange as high as N80 to $1 |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by nosa2(m): 1:21am On Feb 22, 2012 |
@dayokanu what difference does the daily consumption make in calculating the costs to the economy? I'll be a fool to argue that there is no corruption in the system but then continuing the continuing the corrupt system only makes things worse. Did you need to know how many minutes Nigerians used under NITEL before liberalizing the telecoms sector? Or did you need to know how many people stayed in hotels before transcorp was sold? Asking for the daily consumption knowing fully well that it can't be gotten (due to corruption) is not a reason to keep subsidy. P.s let's keep the name calling for less matured conversations. |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by DaLover(m): 1:26am On Feb 22, 2012 |
^^^ just wish more people could reason like this |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by dayokanu(m): 1:27am On Feb 22, 2012 |
^^ If retardeens govt can not tell us our daily consumption then how do we calculate how much we are spending on subsidy? We need to know the subsidy on one liter and multiply it by the number of liters we consume per day to know the total cost of the subsidy But If Retardeen who cant even account for where he was during CHOGM in Australia wants us to trust him to account for Subsidy money then he has another kai-kai drink coming |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by DaLover(m): 1:30am On Feb 22, 2012 |
^^^no hope for this one |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by dayokanu(m): 1:34am On Feb 22, 2012 |
If I claim the money I am spending on you is what makes me unable to send Ikenna to school, Wont the most reasonable question be How much am I costing you and How much does it cost to send Ikenna to school. How do we even know if its 100 Naira spent on subsidy or 1 trillion Dollars. As long as Retardeen chooses to cover up corruption in all places then I pity the future of this country. If we cant get a simple daily consumption from Retardeens govt, We cant get the actual number of people who went for AU meeting in Adis Ababa, We cant get an account of what Retardeen went to do in CHOGM, We cant get the names of Boko Harams sponsors which Retardeen claims he know. Whats the use of him in Aso Rock? Is it just to wake up get drunk and smile like a mor0n high on Alomo bitters |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by Thespecialone(m): 3:49am On Feb 22, 2012 |
@ OP, People of your kind suffer from selective amnesia. If this country had functional refineries, we would not even be talking about fuel subsidy in the first place. If the government are alive to economic realities and want to cut cost, the executive and legislature should lead the way by making deep cuts in their expenses and stop expecting the common man on the street to subsidise their lavish life style. |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by nosa2(m): 7:23am On Feb 22, 2012 |
@Thespecialone I don't trust this government any more than you, I don't believe they'll use the money for the masses, after all what gave they done with the little they got? But the economic facts are a completely different issue, either way the masses are screwed, keep subsidy and the economy eventually collapses or privatize so that irrespective of what the government does the poor can work themselves out of poverty. Russia is an extremely corrupt society but with a private sector led economy Russia is one of the richest countries in the world. Our parents fought this fight and where did that lead them? Today we've started the same song and dance… remember that our debt was forgiven because there was no way we could payback and the international community saw that it was forgiveness or refugees.… and now we've started to borrow heavily, money which our unproductive economy can't pay back. Reality sucks for the poor but burying your head in the sand never solved a problem |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by Demdem(m): 8:00am On Feb 22, 2012 |
dayokanu: The same thing i asked the poster earlier. Once this is not settled, the foundation of his analysis is wrong and should be thrashed. The same govt that told us Nigeria will crash (i wonder why it hasnt yet) if full deregulation isnt allowed is telling us another story of spending 6Billion dollars or so on subsidy when they cant even say categorically the exact amount of fuel being subsidized. Ngozi said it and so what? na today. Nonsense. |
| Re: The True Cost Of #occupynigeria by Demdem(m): 8:02am On Feb 22, 2012 |
dayokanu: Honestly u have turned to something else |
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