or are they the same ? would love to hear your opinions

we are talking about one person. Known as Lucifer while in heaven and became satan after the failed coup [The name satan,and the feminine form Sitnah: Sitnah - come from the verb satan (satan) meaning to resist or be an adversary]

jmoore:

we are talking about one person. Known as Lucifer while in heaven and became satan after the failed coup [The name satan,and the feminine form Sitnah: Sitnah - come from the verb satan (satan) meaning to resist or be an adversary]

thanks for your input jmoore. and you are very positive about your answer ? you are sure they are both the same ?

I got no doubt about the answer I gave.

jmoore:

I got no doubt about the answer I gave.

cool. preciate the answer

...

what is your own answer LoJ, your contribution is needed to.

What's the point of giving an answer without backing it up with bible verses? Theories doesn't interest us. What matters to me, is the very teaching of the bible. So whatever opinion we defend here, WE MUST BACK IT WITH THE SCRIPTURES.

i strongly concur Loj. verses as opposed to hypothesis, assumptions innuendos or assertions.

dang this new format sucks. still trying to get used to it. the phrase 'if it aint broke why fix it' comes to mind

so this thread is turning into concurring. We all concur!!

so this thread is turning into concurring. We all concur!!

You have to agree that this a very integral part of the religion 'christianity' and as such will need a very thorough breakdown supported by scriptures. the depth of knowledge displayed on this topic can actually make some people see the light and abandon their errant wants. this is a heavy part of christianity. innuendos or assumptions will not cut it. you have to come hard.

would love to hear from frosbel, goshen, joagbaje, davidylan and all the other regulars whose names currently elude me

What is the meaning of lucifer @ buguzeeeeee....
And is that word lucifer suppose to be a bible term
Because if I can recall,we could also assume that Jesus and all other angels are lucifers going by its definition as I know it...
I'll soon bring up my composed answer sha...

What is the meaning of lucifer @ buguzeeeeee....
And is that word lucifer suppose to be a bible term
Because if I can recall,we could also assume that Jesus and all other angels are lucifers going by its definition as I know it...
I'll soon bring up my composed answer sha...

sup ma brethren numo86. lucifer is actually in the bible isaiah 14 vs 12. How art thou fallen from heaven, O cLucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!. looking forward to your answer and somehow i dont think jesus is lucifer

numo86: we could also assume that Jesus and all other angels are lucifers

Lucifer is the Satan but the two name are diffrent.Lucifer was one time an Angel the name 'Lucifer' means morning star but he sins and was sent out of heaven as it was reveal in Isiaha 14:12-16 Esikeal 28:12-19
When Lucifer was sent out of heaven he became Satan meaning 'adversary' with is the same as enemy.So, when satan left with his suportive Angels. (Rev 12:3- He became the world number one enemy, looking for the people to join him and die with him in second death.
Lucifer was later call many names in bible.Name such as Dragon,Old Serpent,Devil, then Satan.Rev 12;9 and many more.

guys thanks for all your input. now let me go ahead and break this down line by line precept upon precept here a little there a little.

ISAIAH 14 VS 2 And the people shall take them, and bring them to their place: and the house of Israel shall possess them in the land of the LORD for servants and handmaids: and they shall take them captives, whose captives they were; and they shall rule over their oppressors. (this is a prophesy of what will happen when christ returns. all those who oppressed the israelites are called OPPRESSORS )

ISAIAH 14 VS 4 That thou shalt take up this proverb against the king of Babylon, and say, How hath the oppressor ceased! the golden city ceased! (notice how the OPPRESSOR changes to KING OF BABYLON [/b]or [b]THE GOLDEN CITY )

REVELATION 17 VS 5 And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. (there goes that name BABYLON again. called the mother of abominations on the earth)

REVELATION 17 VS 18 18 The woman whom you saw is the great city, which [k]reigns over the kings of the earth.”(this is talking about the same BABYLON and here it says it reigns over the kings of the earth. who reigns over the kings of the earth ? AMERICA)

DEUTERONOMY 28 VS 29 And thou shalt grope at noonday, as the blind gropeth in darkness, and thou shalt not prosper in thy ways: and thou shalt be only oppressed and spoiled evermore, and no man shall save thee. (so the people who are oppressed by babylon (AMERICA)are the israelites.

HABBAKUK 5 VS 2 Yea also, because he transgresseth by wine, he is a proud man, neither keepeth at home, who enlargeth his desire as hell, and is as death, and cannot be satisfied, but gathereth unto him all nations, and heapeth unto him all people: (Talking about the pride of america and how america does not stay at home but are in all the nations of the world with their africom and military bases so as to steal resources from others and wherever they go they bring death, and cannot be satisfied cuz they want more and more resources and how they gather all nations unto themselves. the so called melting pot )

ISAIAH 14 VS 5 The LORD hath broken the staff of the wicked, and the sceptre of the rulers. (This is the prophesy of the downfall of america. who is the sceptre of the rulers on earth ? the king of kings ? america )

ISAIAH 14 VS 6 You struck the people with endless blows of rage and held the nations in your angry grip with unrelenting tyranny. (america always bombing other smaller nations. bullies. tyrants )

isaiah 14 vs 7 But finally the earth is at rest and quiet. Now it can sing again! (what will happen on earth when america is obliterated )

isaiah 14 vs 8 Yea, the fir trees rejoice at thee, and the cedars of Lebanon, saying, Since thou art laid down, no feller is come up against us. (even the trees will rejoice when america is brought down as there will be no more deforestation for capitalism )

isaiah 14 vs 12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations! (notice how america is called the morning star and[b] son of the dawn[/b])it also says you have fallen from heaven. now let me get a precept for what heaven really means

lamentations 2 vs 1 How the Lord has covered Daughter Zion with the cloud of his anger.He has hurled down the splendor of Israel from heaven to earth; he has not remembered his footstool in the day of his anger. (now we know israel are the lords chosen people. the people whom he has chosen as his (deut 7 vs 6). but he removed his protection from them and let them fall from a rulership position on earth because of their iniquity (romans 11 vs 11). he let other nations take control of the world. hence israel fell from heaven to earth. heaven means RULERSHIP ON EARTH and hell means CAPTIVITY ON EARTH. so all these people saying heaven is in the skies ? nah heaven is a condition on earth (THE CONDITION OF WHITE PEOPLE ON EARTH TODAY IS HEAVEN ). so israel fell from rulership to captivity.

ISAIAH 14 VS 12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations! (SO NOW WE SEE THE LORD CALLING THE KING OF BABYLON, THE MORNING STAR, SON OF DAWN, THE OPPRESSOR, AMERICA lucifer. the lord is calling america lucifer. AMERICA IS LUCIFER. the light bearer to the nations (the statute of liberty sign shows a man bearing a light to all the nations ). lord says how art thou fallen from heaven (this is the lord gloating at the future downfall of america). lord also says, thou which weaken the nations (with warfare and unfair trade etc etc)..

isaiah 14 vs 13 You said in your heart, "I will ascend to heaven; I will raise my throne above the stars of God; I will sit enthroned on the mount of assembly, on the utmost heights of the sacred mountain. (this is the lord talking about lucifer. he wanted to ascend to heaven with his space travels, NASA missions, he wanted to raise his throne above the stars with his satellites and space programs )

isaiah 14 vs 14 I will ascend above the tops of the clouds; I will make myself like the Most High." (basically america trying to be like God. trying to ascend to the top of the clouds when they made planes in 1913 (the wright brothers)

isaiah 14 vs 16 Those who see you will stare at you and ponder over you: ‘Is this the man who made the earth tremble, who shook kingdoms, (this will be the astonishement of people when america is brought down)

isaiah 14 vs 17 the man who made the world a desert, who overthrew its cities and would not let his captives go home?" (here the lord calls lucifer a man on earth who overthrew cities with war, who made the earth tremble with bombs, who shook kingdoms ) IT IS A MAN ON EARTH. A PHYSICAL PERSON. AMERICA. LUCIFER IS AMERICA

NOW THAT WE HAVE ESTABLISHED THAT LUCIFER IS A PHYSICAL ENTITY ON EARTH. A MAN ON EARTH. LETS ESTABLISH WHAT NATION (RACE) OF PEOPLE REPRESENT LUCIFER. LETS GET MORE PRECEPTS

OBADIAH 1 VS 3 The pride of thine heart hath deceived thee, thou that dwellest in the clefts of the rock, whose habitation is high; that saith in his heart, Who shall bring me down to the ground? (here goes that pride again)

obadiah 1 vs 4 But even if you soar as high as eagles and build your nest among the stars, I will bring you crashing down," says the LORD.( here goes the space travel and flying planes )

THOSE 2 OBADIAH CHAPTERS ABOVE ARE SPEAKING ABOUT A NATION OF PEOPLE ON EARTH. A RACE OF PEOPLE IF YOU WILL, OBADIAH CALLS THEM EDOMITES, WHICH IS THEIR BIBLICAL NAME. TODAY THEY ARE CALLED THE CAUCASIAN RACE. LADIES AND GENTLEMEN LUCIFER IS AMERICA WHICH IS THE HEADQUARTERS OF THE CAUCASIAN RACE.

NOW THAT WE HAVE DEALT WITH WHO LUCIFER IS, LETS DEAL WITH SATAN. LETS GO TO THE BOOK OF JOB 1 VS 6-9. IF YOU READ THOSE VERSES YOU WILL SEE SATAN HAVING A MERRY CONVERSATION WITH GOD. SATAN BELONGS TO GOD. GOD USES SATAN AS HIS WHIPPING STICK ON EARTH WHEN SOMEONE NEEDS WHIPPING (PROVERBS 16 VS 4). SATAN IS A SPIRIT. SATAN IS A COMPONENT IN EVERY SPIRIT MADE BY GOD. EVERY SPIRIT IS MADE WITH A GOOD AND A BAD SIDE. THE BAD (EVIL SIDE) IS SATAN. EVERYTHING GOD CREATES HAS A PRO AND AN ANTI SIDE. THIS IS HOW THE LORD WORKS (SIRACH 33 VS 15). AND SINCE THE SPIRIT BELONGS TO GOD (ECCLESIASTES 12 VS 7 ), SATAN BELONGS TO GOD.

SO THERE YOU HAVE IT.
LUCIFER IS A MAN WREAKING HAVOC ON EARTH (AMERICA) (CAUCASIAN) AND SATAN IS ONE HALF OF THE SPIRIT IN EVERY HUMAN CREATED ON EARTH (which is why you do all the evil things you do. it is the satan in you )

buzugee: NOW THAT WE HAVE DEALT WITH WHO LUCIFER IS, LETS DEAL WITH SATAN. LETS GO TO THE BOOK OF JACOB 1 VS 6-9. IF YOU READ THOSE VERSES YOU WILL SEE SATAN HAVING A MERRY CONVERSATION WITH GOD. SATAN BELONGS TO GOD. GOD USES SATAN AS HIS WHIPPING STICK ON EARTH WHEN SOMEONE NEEDS WHIPPING (PROVERBS 16 VS 4). SATAN IS A SPIRIT. SATAN IS A COMPONENT IN EVERY SPIRIT MADE BY GOD. EVERY SPIRIT IS MADE WITH A GOOD AND A BAD SIDE. THE BAD (EVIL SIDE) IS SATAN. EVERYTHING GOD CREATES HAS A PRO AND AN ANTI SIDE. THIS IS HOW THE LORD WORKS (SIRACH 33 VS 15). AND SINCE THE SPIRIT BELONGS TO GOD (ECCLESIASTES 12 VS 7 ), SATAN BELONGS TO GOD.

SO THERE YOU HAVE IT.
LUCIFER IS A MAN WREAKING HAVOC ON EARTH (AMERICA) (CAUCASIAN) AND SATAN IS ONE HALF OF THE SPIRIT IN EVERY HUMAN CREATED ON EARTH (which is why you do all the evil things you do. it is the satan in you )

You say:
"Satan has a happy conversation with God"
"Satan is a creation of God" (Lucifer, too)

Dear friend:
Understand that I am not disagreeing with you, but ...
You are telling Christians that God is a friend of Satan and converses happily with him?
Satan is an ally of god?

I would like to ask you a question to all Christians:
If God is absolute good, if the devil is the absolute evil ...
How could God be the absolute good to absolute evil created?
How is it that the absolute good dialogue and work together happily with absolute evil?

Ptolomeus:
You say:
"Satan has a happy conversation with God"
"Satan is a creation of God" (Lucifer, too)

Dear friend:
Understand that I am not disagreeing with you, but ...
You are telling Christians that God is a friend of Satan and converses happily with him?
Satan is an ally of god?

I would like to ask you a question to all Christians:
If God is absolute good, if the devil is the absolute evil ...
How could God be the absolute good to absolute evil created?
How is it that the absolute good dialogue and work together happily with absolute evil?

yes satan and God were conversing about job. this does not literally mean he was having a formal chat. it is an analogy for the fact that 'the lord used the satan in other people to test job'. satan is a creation of God (ecclesiastes 12 vs 7) (sirach 33 vs 15)(proverbs 16 vs 4)

am i telling christians that ? quite frankly i am not telling them that. my message to christians is to stop allowing yourself to be brainwashed by these pastors who are in it for filthy lucre (titus 1 vs 11)
satan is not an ally of God. satan belongs to God

who said God is the absolute good ? God hates as much as you and i (amos 5 vs 15) (romans 9 vs 13) (malachi 1 vs 3). he does evil (amos 3 vs 6) (lamentations 3 vs 38 ) (isaiah 45 vs 6-7) (proverbs 16 vs 4). only difference is he hates evil and repays evil with evil.

EXODUS 15 VS 3 The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name.

[quote author=buzugee] am i telling christians that ? quite frankly i am not telling them that. my message to christians is to stop allowing yourself to be brainwashed by these pastors who are in it for filthy lucre (titus 1 vs 11)
satan is not an ally of God. satan belongs to God
quote]
I think we agree. There is no absolute good or absolute evil. You could say that Satan is very part of God and vice versa.
Not what Christians think of it, but actually, we agree that God is not necessarily the absolute good.

'Satan is part of God and vice versa' i A̶̲̥̅♏ not sure you know what "vice versa"means GOD does is not part of satan *jus thought you should know*

[quote author=Ptolomeus][/quote]christians subscribe to greco-roman interpretation of the lords scriptures, laced with a dollop of mythology for a nice twist. Is God the absolute Good ? not if you judge him by human standards because if i repay someone evil with evil, then most humans will agree that i am not a great person. however if you look at it from the point of view that he hates sin and will obliterate it when it rears it head, then i guess you can say he is the ultimate good. its all about perspective.

dany191: 'Satan is part of God and vice versa' i A̶̲̥̅♏ not sure you know what "vice versa"means GOD does is not part of satan *jus thought you should know*

Read the thread before posting.

One and the same. Just like you are called Buzugee on NL and another name in Reality.

2mch: One and the same. Just like you are called Buzugee on NL and another name in Reality.

nah. lucifer is america and the race of people behind america. satan is a spirit. one is physical. the other is a spirit.

na wa 4 pple with their thinking sha.someone here said america is lucifer,my friend pls think again,when was america found or created,lucifer was there even b4 america was found.these words are nothing but legends,created by the early jeruselem church which was later over takened by christianity.reseach judaism,zionist,jeruselem and jesus and his movement then his brother james then peter and finally paul,if u dont know the past then the future is doomed.

Observer1:
na wa 4 pple with their thinking sha.someone here said america is lucifer,my friend pls think again,when was america found or created,lucifer was there even b4 america was found.these words are nothing but legends,created by the early jeruselem church which was later over takened by christianity.reseach judaism,zionist,jeruselem and jesus and his movement then his brother james then peter and finally paul,if u dont know the past then the future is doomed.

wrong, lucifer is mentioned in the bible in a future prophesy in an era in which we are living in now. you have to remember that prior to the emergence of lucifer as the daughter of babylon, he (the deciever) had been locked down for 1000 (revelation 20 vs 3) years which occured in 193 AD when septemius severus (a black man) conquered the greco roman empire and in which black people ruled all over europe for 1000 years in what is known as the dark ages of europe. however scripture says the devil (deciever) will be released for a short period of time after the 1000 years is up. and then we had the re-emergence of the roman empire in an era known as the european rennaisance. it was during this era that the devil spawned lucifer when he 'discovered' america and then expelled all the black people in europe there for slavery (first wave of black slaves were from europe). then he conquered the natives in america and then went ahead and built him the virgin daughter of babylon also known as lucifer.

my broda,

I dont know if u know how old those so called prophesies are!first of all I dont blive in bible nor quran,am a christian alright,I blive in god and jesus,but the bible no I dont.why?because some of the prophesies are specifically for the isrealites,secondly the bible was misinterpreted as the original words was hebrew lang,thirdly some things scripts are reserved for the elites only and the junks are giving to control the average joe's.

Have u heard of king henry v,what happened with him and catholic church as a result he decided to create his own version of the bible.give me the very
first blble version then I 'll blive.roman empire,paul,peter and james the brother of jesus if they are here today,they will all have different things to say about christianity.anyways it's not my place to tell pple what to blive.but as far as am concern even the most top 9ja pastor does not have a clue about what they are talking about or they may know but because of their selfish interest,they'll not tell the truth.

Observer1: my broda,

I dont know if u know how old those so called prophesies are!first of all I dont blive in bible nor quran,am a christian alright,I blive in god and jesus,but the bible no I dont.why?because some of the prophesies are specifically for the isrealites,secondly the bible was misinterpreted as the original words was hebrew lang,thirdly some things scripts are reserved for the elites only and the junks are giving to control the average joe's.

Have u heard of king henry v,what happened with him and catholic church as a result he decided to create his own version of the bible.give me the very
first blble version then I 'll blive.roman empire,paul,peter and james the brother of jesus if they are here today,they will all have different things to say about christianity.anyways it's not my place to tell pple what to blive.but as far as am concern even the most top 9ja pastor does not have a clue about what they are talking about or they may know but because of their selfish interest,they'll not tell the truth.

ok there are actually hebrew scholars who cross reference the bible with the hebrew scrolls. secondly, while some bible are corrupted, the KING JAMES VERSION 1611 is the most accurate. and how can you be a christian and not believe the words of God ? and you are an israelite if you are yoruba or igbo or any tribe in nigeria so long as you are not fulani or hausa

How can I claim to be an isrealite even though I know that I am not,anyway the racism isreal towards blacks are even worst than it is in europe.do u know that the king james 1611 is sold for over 1 million dollars now as we speak.why is that?.pls dont be delusional to claim that u r an isrealite because there mite be some isrealite reading it.u know what they'll only laff at u.I have done a lot of reseach of about the life of james the brother of jesus,peter and paul,I came to conclude that their dogma are different as a matter of fact the findings will make u puke.try to research the dealth of james and peter,do u know that there was a huge misunderstanding between james,peter and paul,b4 they made an agreement that paul should take his gospel to gentiles while peter and james to the jews.read gospel thomas,gospel of james,the book of enoch and then gospel of judas.
then u'll know why I dont blive the blble.

Observer1: How can I claim to be an isrealite even though I know that I am not,anyway the racism isreal towards blacks are even worst than it is in europe.do u know that the king james 1611 is sold for over 1 million dollars now as we speak.why is that?.pls dont be delusional to claim that u r an isrealite because there mite be some isrealite reading it.u know what they'll only laff at u.I have done a lot of reseach of about the life of james the brother of jesus,peter and paul,I came to conclude that their dogma are different as a matter of fact the findings will make u puke.try to research the dealth of james and peter,do u know that there was a huge misunderstanding between james,peter and paul,b4 they made an agreement that paul should take his gospel to gentiles while peter and james to the jews.read gospel thomas,gospel of james,the book of enoch and then gospel of judas.
then u'll know why I dont blive the blble.

you think the fake jews are laughing at me for calling myself the real jew ? and you say you have done a lot of research on this matter ? were did you do this research ? in the oshodi library ? let me point you to a few biblical research about the color of the real jews
lamentations 5 vs 10
lamentations 4 vs 8
jeremiah 14 vs 2
job 30 vs 30

then read about the color of jesus in daniel 7 vs 9
revelation 1 vs 14-15

and read about the so called impostors who call themselves jews here
revelation 2 vs 9
revelation 3 vs 9

lamentations 5 vs 10 Our skin was black like an oven because of the terrible famine.

lamentations 4 vs 8 Their visage is blacker than a coal; they are not known in the streets: their skin cleaveth to their bones; it is withered, it is become like a stick.

jeremiah 14 vs 2 Judah mourneth, and the gates thereof languish; they are black unto the ground; and the cry of Jerusalem is gone up.

job 30 vs 30 My skin is black upon me, and my bones are burned with heat.

DO THOSE SOUND LIKE THE WHITE IMPOSTORS THAT CALL THEMSELVES THE JEWS ?