Are the men intimidated or do they just not want to get involved fearing the outcome.
I think this is a very intresting topic for young women and men who aspire to get married. I had a friend who was one such woman, the man was jobless, i have to admit the man was like a boy boy in the house, serving the guest and sleeping in the sitting room. It was disgusting.
Most men want to be the head of their house, i don´t think this applies to only Nigerians.
I have seen it in many homes too, when the man looses his job and the woman is working, in a very short time the situation was almost unbearable. Without realising it, the repect was thrown overboard withen no time at all.

k, i'm not claiming any superior knowledge here(chances are i'm d youngest person here!),
the whole thing depends on the interpretation of 'strong independent black woman' like bros debosky said i'm attracted to intellingent women(all d gels i've really liked have always been ahead of me in class) anyway sha the whole thing as far as the nigerian angle is concerned boils down to if the woman is 'smart' enough to know that irregardless of what she earns or where she works she has to respect(and to some extent obey) her husband!

mutter:

A woman with a good job , independent, that is no big deal, but ladies wipe your feet befoe you enter your home. At home you are a wife and mother.
I think it is oftern independent , strong women who cannot handle the combination, wife and career women

because thats the way our culture (and for most of us our religion)puts things, if the strong independent woman is not smart enough to know that home is very different from work then all her strength can be put down as agidi(let her use the same skills that she uses at work to succeed at home and let us see if she will not fail woefully!),

hi guys

Just signed on and can see the debate has gone into controversal topics in some cases the bible being quoted??
And some one calling in seun to the debate why?? I think he's read this debate

However lets not stray from the actual topic header 'intimidated' its not about defining the black woman or arrogance or ignorant wealth its looking at Nigerian men shying away from such women.

It is quite clear some guys feel that women should be stuck to the kitchen sink and 'obey' their husbands for the person i wont name names for your up to date information the word 'obey has been taken out of wedding vows as it has controversal aspects and the church of england no longer use's it this has followed word wide.

Mutter your veiws I agree with but it is quite clear to see a mould of nigerian men thought process's are yet to be broken

Its fair to say some guys are very interllectual and have a good debate arnald1 londener ,

however are their any women on here apart from the 3 young ladies who have braved the topic

look forward to more posts,

@ Britigirlee, I am a woman, lol

@britgirl
u cant talk about nigerian guys an then turn around to tell us wot the church of england says(feel free to mention the church in naija that will remove obey from its vows) and i'm not saying we shld involve religion in this but most naia pple to some extent have been xposed to religion so it will colour their views, (moreso when it comes to stuff like this!),

ohhh im so sorry thought your posts where very pro women  

all makes sence now

thankyou for yr post, very thought processed and to the point

@britgirlee
would u be a darling and not put words in my mouth(or keys on my fingers) , am all for the women(much more than u cld imagine), jst the bit where u refer to wot the church of england is doing that sets me off,

netose,

not meant to offend at all not in my nature you can check it out if you like the word honer obey is withdrawn,

its nothing new,,,,

But what's this thing about a woman has to obey a man. in what respects?

A woman doesn't have to obey ishhh if she dont want to and no moral code should demand that she should.

@britgirlee,
we have officailly made up(even tho we were neva fighting)_{trying to help get more pple here}

Strong Independent Black Woman is a synonym for someone looking for a one night stand, has no plan for any sort of comittment, ie really independent.

Most people in the US would understand the need for a woman (independent) to have 'Bleep-buddies' or 'baby daddies' without any sort of emotional and social comitment, because the Women and child welfare system 'penalizes' a woman with a man resident in the house by reducing the amount of money she gets from the government each month.

This amount is directly proportional to the number of children she has and of course inversely proportional to number of men coming to identify themselves as fathers of her children.

I have never seen a woman identify herself as a 'strong independent black woman' and still expects a long term relationship with a guy- Nigerian or not.

Most men appreciate strong, intelligent, and successful women.

Independence? I say to become an Island unto yourself, ie man or woman.

netose,
hope so, intresting thread, also appriciate, you getting more individuals on this debate i can tell you now its a hot topic amougst my friends and family , had a dinner party here last night and showed them this debate , oh my but it was very intresting

ps where are the women on nairaland

naija king

with due respect i can understand your point but if you do read my initial post it can become quite obvious that for these women to get to where they are they are obviously intelligent successful and very hard working etc

you seem to interpret this in a misconstrued way which is not the thought process in this topic.

Also can you show me a woman that shouts to the world that she is strong independent successful, blah blah blah, you see they don't they don't have to.

from davidylon
The idea of the strong independent black woman" is actually a misnomer. It is simply a cover up for loud, abrasive, headstrong and abusive woman.

I could not agree more.

9-5

it would of been nice to post your own personal view

i have to ask what dicionary did you get yr definition from for 'strong independent

certainly not any reputable recognised one

would you say any one that is strong and independent is loud and abrasive etc it actually shows no thought process
or are you just referring to women in general as that just shows that your being a male chauvinist who is intimidated by a strong intelligent career focused and driven woman,

if it isn't it would nice to hear yr personal debate,

doyin13:

But what's this thing about a woman has to obey a man. in what respects?

A woman doesn't have to obey ishhh if she don't want to and no moral code should demand that she should.

That's right Doyin13.

All I can say is thank God for the kinds of people He has graciously brought my way. Obey?  Even if the man na goat--make you obey am?  Like all men qualified to be called men?

Any relationship based on mutual respect and admiration would not have this topic as an issue.  When we start talkin of some bullshit "natural order of things"--I think that is nonsense.  Which natural order? That a man/woman should be a slave in his/her own home----- --because of some ill-mannered, chuavanistic pig/or abusive ill-brought up wench? No one should put up with that--MALE OR FEMALE.

_{walahi talahi--I go kill person--and will gladly go to the gas chamber for it!---who born you?}

I say again--thank God, He did not bring morons my way for a father, brothers, uncles, husbands, sons or whatever--in male form!!!! It would get really ugly fast.  If there is anything I cannot personally stand in any culture, it is an abusive personality of a spouse--MALE OR FEMALE!!!!!!

naijaking1:


Strong Independent Black Woman is a synonym for someone looking for a one night stand, has no plan for any sort of comittment, ie really independent.

Most people in the US would understand the need for a woman (independent) to have 'mess-buddies' or 'baby daddies' without any sort of emotional and social comitment, because the Women and child welfare system 'penalizes' a woman with a man resident in the house by reducing the amount of money she gets from the government each month.

This amount is directly proportional to the number of children she has and of course inversely proportional to number of men coming to identify themselves as fathers of her children.

I[b] have never seen a woman identify herself as a 'strong independent black woman' and still expects a long term relationship with a guy- Nigerian or not.[/b]

Most men appreciate strong, intelligent, and successful women.

Independence? I say to become an Island unto yourself, ie man or woman.

Yeah!  You appreciate a strong, intelligent and successful woman but has to give up her independence to enhance yours. Her independence is a problem to you? I wonder why?  Rubbish!  Please head to your village for that kind abeg. 

Look at the weird interpretation you gave to the whole idea of being strong and independent--the reason most of you are still single and are divorcing left, right and center.  Which woman in 2007 will put up with this bullshit of a mentality you are displaying here?  Not for long----probably long enough to snag your arse to the altar for some kids or something.  You are definitely going to be put out in the end.  I will put you out fast! Teach you a lesson you will never forget if you try any rubbish.

Let me tell you, being married is not a curse and should not be.  If for one reason or the other I have a spouse that feels I am not "controllable"--- he or she is free to walk.  I can NEVER, I repeat--NEVER sacrifice my personal mental health and sense of security for anyone's.  If you so much as attempt to drive me nuts in the slightest shape or form--try to cause me any physical or mental breakdown on account of your insecurities, I put your arse out--for good!!!!  You will never win that kind of war with one like me---so keep looking around your village ok?

Back to your parents for some more training. It is either we work together or the highway.  You should be ready to take that risk at all times so you are not held hostage in your own home.  The last time I checked--none of my doors were locked--you are free to walk and no tears will be shed on those grounds. 

NINETOFIVE:


I could not agree more.

These are definitely guys who should have "custom made" brides from Nigeria--specially made for them.  Thanks for you views.  I am sure there are many women who fit your profile!   Goodluck!!!!

britgirlee:

naija king

with due respect i can understand your point but if you do read my initial post it can become quite obvious that for these women to get to where they are they are obviously intelligent successful and very hard working etc

you seem to interpret this in a misconstrued way which is not the thought process in this topic.

Also can you show me a woman that shouts to the world that she is strong independent successful, blah blah blah, you see they don't they don't have to.

Please do not forget you are dealing with Nigerian men here.  They leave what is being discussed and start their own mental battles.  Like any woman goes around shouting "I am black, strong and indepedent" on the streets.  Like you said--it shows in her inabilty to remain a partner in any relationship not a surbordinate to any.

almondjoy:

All I can say is thank God for the kinds of people He has graciously brought my way. Obey? Even if the man na goat--make you obey am? Like all men qualified to be called men?

I am not a big fan of the obey your man dictat but it is in the bible. My question here is if you are a good and faithful Christian but believe in equal rights, where does this leave you? We are told on the one hand you have to accept everything preached blindly yet some things go against natural justice.

My other issue is; if as a woman you are older than your partner by a few years, would you expect him to defer to you on some issues where you have greater experience and knowledge? Given that in most (not all) relationships, the man tends to be older (sometimes by a significant age) does it stand to reason that some allowance should be made for this?

Cyclone5:

I am not a big fan of the obey your man dictat but it is in the bible.

My question here is if you are a good and faithful Christian but believe in equal rights, where does this leave you? We are told on the one hand you have to accept everything preached blindly yet some things go against natural justice.

My other issue is; if as a woman you are older than your partner by a few years, would you expect him to defer to you on some issues where you have greater experience and knowledge?

Given that in most (not all) relationships, the man tends to be older (sometimes by a significant age) does it stand to reason that some allowance should be made for this?

You have brought in the main cardinal sins committed by most and the reason why the divorce rate is 50% and above world wide.

These are the cardinal sins.

***Using religion to suit yourselves when it benefits your kind---Selective practices as you like it or when it suits your sinister objectives.

***Using some irrational cultural beliefs to propagate gender inequality---Like we all can do the same things all the time?

***Using age as a reason for respect--Like a 2 year-old does not need respect?

I refuse to go by those.  Every relationship has a stronger or weaker partner in the relationship.  For example a man might be a good provider but lousy at raising the kids.  A woman might be a good financial planner but lousy in domestics.  You pick up each other's slacks and has nothing to do with culture, religion or age.  You care for yourselves and you listen to each other.  Roles in any relationships are always dynamic and change constantly-- they are not static.  Might do most of you some good to recognize that and spare yourselves the frustrations of trying to maintain your useless "status quo" or "natural order of things".  Most of you Nigerian guys have to learn to adapt to changes without your sick ego getting in the way.  The world never revolved around you and never will please!  Stop killing your wives in, Nigeria, UK and America for your bloody frustrations please.

Who says the man has to do the talking all the time?  Know your strenghts and weaknesses and compliment them.  No body's business how you choose to run your home as long as it is successful and you are EQUAL partners.  No one is above the other.  You are seperate but equal partners with mutual respect and consideration--PERIOD!!!!!

I prefer a "buddy" in a relationship not a "MASTER"!!!  Can't even be turned on by such circumstances.  Yuck!!!!  Like I am some village princess or something?   I prefer a "playmate" not an "INSTRUCTOR".  A "teamplayer" not a "CAPTAIN"!!!  Gosh! who wants such a boring creature in life that sits in one place and lectures out of his arse all day long like he is dealing with his student in a classroom?  God forbid!!!! I think I would rather go to bed alone and derive greater satisfaction "playing" with myself.  Then I would have married a 70-year-old "spouse" then!  Rubbish!  In 2007-------------

@Almondjoy, music to my ears! We need more like you. Family is about going in the same direction, not one spouse being made a sacrifice. Your parents/ family did a very good job in that respect.

Compatibility goes a long way to making a successful relationship. Afterall, what would be the point of being with someone who is just as lousy as yourself, in the same areas?  Like you said, you are supposed to compliment eachothers strengths and weaknesses.

londener and almounddjoy,
good debates here with friends who are in strond debate at the moment

londoner:

@Almondjoy, music to my ears! We need more like you. Family is about going in the same direction, not one spouse being made a sacrifice. Your parents/ family did a very good job in that respect.

Compatibility goes a long way to making a successful relationship. Afterall, what would be the point of being with someone who is just as lousy as yourself, in the same areas?  Like you said, you are supposed to compliment eachothers strengths and weaknesses.

Abi Ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooh!!!  Happy Sunday my sister oh!  Complimenting eachother is the key.  Working together.  Like you need a bible or some culture to tell you that?  Common sense.  And if you had parents that practiced those things and you saw it working in their lives--why would you want to do differently because someone wants to read you the bible upside down to suit his or her nonsense.  Yet with all that--divorces are all over the place?

The great thing about these debates is that people can expose themselves.

As a general rule I would advocate tolerance in relationships. However, each relationship and the people in it are unique.

@Almondjoy - There is a reason why there is a distinction between wisdom and intelligence. You should investigate it.

In reality you cannot legistlate for how each person is brought up and socialised. I agree that genders are equal. After all, what different weighting can be given to male and female (other than that female has more letters)? But people differ. And in differing they have strengths and weaknesses. On of the joys in a good relationship is how the people compliment themselves. The reason why confusionreigns is when people dont know their limitations (which we all have) and havent learnt how to listen to each other.

Cultures evolve but even the most traditional cultures served their societies and times very well. There is a lot to learn about who we are from what we were.

Cyclone5:

The great thing about these debates is that people can expose themselves.

As a general rule I would advocate tolerance in relationships. However, each relationship and the people in it are unique.

@Almondjoy - There is a reason why there is a distinction between wisdom and intelligence. You should investigate it.

In reality you cannot legistlate for how each person is brought up and socialised. I agree that genders are equal. After all, what different weighting can be given to male and female (other than that female has more letters)? But people differ. And in differing they have strengths and weaknesses. On of the joys in a good relationship is how the people compliment themselves. The reason why confusion reigns is when people don't know their limitations (which we all have) and havent learnt how to listen to each other.

Cultures evolve but even the most traditional cultures served their societies and times very well. There is a lot to learn about who we are from what we were.

Thank God I am not married to your kind. You are one confused bat! May God grant you your heart's desires like He granted mine.  Thank God I do not have any unmarried sisters.  As for my daughter--she already knows better!  See you in divorce court! You can take your culture and religion and shove it up where the sun does not ever shine!!!!

Happy Sunday to you too!

@ Cyclone, you are right, you cant legislate for someone else's upbringing. We are creatures of habit, most likely, people will bring up their children in a similar way to how they were brought up as a learned behaviour.

However, if the happiness of the family/community etc as a whole, is made the focus, rather than the needs and wants of the individual, many practices will fall away naturally. Tradition is only so because we used to doing something in the same way over a long period. However, if that tradition ends up hindering us, is it wrong to adapt it?

Afterall, what is important in all this, the tradition itself, or the objectives of the community that live under it?


You are right, in some aspects relationships are unique, but on the other hand, many are just the case of same poo different toilet. With all due respect to the right to religious and cultural beliefs, communities, marriages and individuals are inbibing the most unhealthy ideas through these avenues too.

Thats just my opinion.

londoner:

@ Cyclone, you are right, you can't legislate for someone else's upbringing. We are creatures of habit, most likely, people will bring up their children in a similar way to how they were brought up as a learned behaviour.

However, if the happiness of the family/community etc as a whole, is made the focus, rather than the needs and wants of the individual, many practices will fall away naturally.

Tradition is only so because we used to doing something in the same way over a long period. However, if that tradition ends up hindering us, is it wrong to adapt it?

Afterall, what is important in all this, the tradition itself, or the objectives of the community that live under it?


You are right, in some aspects relationships are unique, but on the other hand, many are just the case of same poo different toilet. With all due respect to the right to religious and cultural beliefs, communities, marriages and individuals are inbibing the most unhealthy ideas through these avenues too.

Thats just my opinion.

Great job--Nothing more to add.  Look at the one investigating the difference between wisdom and intelligence.  Like both are comparatively investigatable?  Gosssssssssh.  I wonder sometimes how some people function without thinking for themselves on a daily basis.  Just to spit out what they have learned over and over again, even when it is not working in their lives. 

Thank you Londoner for being so civilized about the topic.  I hope he sees reason in your approach.  You can tell my grandfather had  more rational views concerning marriage and relationships than most men here.  What a pity!

@ Londoner - I hear you. Tradition certainly needs to evolve and adapt thats why its traditional. However, people sometimes need coaxing to lead them from a safe place in the past to a challenging void in the future. Its just natural. That process is necessary but shouldnt always be sudden and traumatic. But the shift must happen nonetheless.

Sometimes modern life leaves us feeling there are things we have to recognise though not always accept.

@Almondjoy - There is a reason wise people nod in silence when a crazy person stands up and spouts wildly.

I don't think being intimidated by someone more "powerful" than you is a Nigerian man's perogative but of all humans as a whole.

I myself dream of becoming successful enough to take care of my needs because depending on someone is not a thing to be proud of wether you are a woman or not.
I can't understand why women allow men to boss them around in the name of "natural order" so I would be more confused if a man should accept the situation out of his own will.

But yet i still believe that the role of the leader shouldn't be determined by virtue of sex or the social status.

there are things that make a leader and NOT ALL MEN ARE FIT FOR IT.

Let's be realistic and leave this "natural order" aside, because there is nothing like that.

sex doesn't determine the abilities and capacities of someone. Rather is more connected to physiological and biological aspects of an individual.

So, let's cut the crap and face the truth.

No one likes the idea of having someone more successful than him because we as human are very competitive and are always looking forward to being better than our neighbours!

i cannot understand why people still hold on to the traditions of old.
women suffer under it but still bring up their sons and daughters by it.
It is my duty to see to it that my daughters have a better life.
And am bringing them um to be young strong independent women

mamaput:

i cannot understand why people still hold on to the traditions of old.
women suffer under it but still bring up their sons and daughters by it.
It is my duty to see to it that my daughters have a better life.
And am bringing them um to be young strong independent women

That's what i can't understand myself.

We are caught in a very dangerous vicious cycle.

We always say "I'll never do such thing to my child" but then we find ourselves doing it.

This is what they call "generational curse"

Then I have a doubt: why do the adjectives "strong" and "independent" assume a negative connotation when they referred to women?

Cyclone5:

@ Londoner - I hear you. Tradition certainly needs to evolve and adapt thats why its traditional. However, people sometimes need coaxing to lead them from a safe place in the past to a challenging void in the future. Its just natural. That process is necessary but shouldnt always be sudden and traumatic. But the shift must happen nonetheless.

Sometimes modern life leaves us feeling there are things we have to recognise though not always accept.

@Almondjoy - There is a reason wise people nod in silence when a crazy person stands up and spouts wildly.

Yesssssirrrrrrrrrrrrrr!!!   MR TRADO-MEDICAL!!!! it is my prerogative to do just so for I am not looking for a "husband"-- and even if I were--I know where to look ok--definitely never in your direction ok?  Your kind will never cross my horizon for sheer lack of common sense--not to even dig deeper to find what other components you are missing.  You would have been history within 6 months maximum, just in time to get the marriage annulled and wiped clean from ma records.  So I can jolly well tell you what I think and the heck with you!  Not even looking for a "date" to attend any Nairaland juvvy prom. Thank your fading, lucky stars for females like Londoner who are ever ready to gently break things down to your kind like sets of retarded children with multiple genetic anomalies--in a special Ed's classroom.  I believe in the school of "hard knocks"  since that is the only language the typical Nigerian Chauvanistic Pig of a Male understands.

Please try and get married first then come back and tell us who will put up with your local tout of a village arse.  With your village mentality, you can only go so far.  The reason why Caucasian and African American ladies deal with your primitive arses over here--- most of you end up running for your dear lives, back to Nigeria since you cannot fit in with life long emotional scars.  Only to fall in to the hands of some pitiful, unsuspecting Nigerian females that do not know any better---stupidly rejoycing that Chris Okotie or some Holy guy has answered their prayers. Only to find out later they inherited some "psychological and Emotional" shits of train wreck not 'fixable"---but severely damaged goods. A never ending reality TV show of "HELL DATE"!!!!

We see all the new brides all the time here like living corpses with no where to get help since they sealed their fate in damnation to "controlling village kolomental spouses".  They are often in and out of Police custody for domestic violence with records that can clog up Wikidoodle. I wish people like your kind will come my way. You need a sound education. I do not have go telling you about my personal life since I have long learned several "sweet" lessons from many loving Nairaland members in the past.  All I will tell you is to find one of your  "local village brides" you guys are so accustomed to over there and let us look for our "city" dudes.  I am happy to inform you that I am light years ahead of most of you in this game and I got it right.  

Not like most of you in your teens and 20's whose parents failed to teach the art of tolerance, accomodation, teamwork and compromise.  Now you want to make up for your genetic mishaps by hinging to some religion or culture that came about when you were not even in existence.  Like you are some mule that can be led to the sacrificial block at any time.  Mr. Do as I say and not as I Do! Don't you have a brain? Obviously when you tap your head a hollow sound designates that "no one was ever home"!!!!

When most of you practically raised yourselves, running around polygamous compounds sleeping with yourselves and siblings under impoverished abusive conditions--how would you have any ethical or moral compass to know what it entails to be in any healthy "relationship"?   Never taught any sense of direction or iota of self-respect, when your parents were too busy diving in and out of other peoples privates to care what you were doing.   Now you think you can control everything that comes your way?  

Keep nodding in silence like an "Agama lizard"  When you get to age 40 and approaching male menopause--I am sure your village elders can parcel you some "degenerate mail order bride" over your way to poison your arse for some insurance money in the future!  I will glady rejoice at one less--six feet under- the world will be too happy to be rid off.

Keep nodding I say---You Agama Lizard!!!!