ow11: ^^^
Why did Europeans stop having an average of 9-12 kids as recent as 100 years go? Was it through jingles and fear mongering?

If you want to attempt the above, then please be more specific. What parallels exist between the current state of population growth, and economy in Nigeria, and the birth rate, along with economic growth in specific European samples back over 100 years ago.

PhysicsQED:

I modified my post a bit because I realized that what I was saying might have been a little too subtle.

The point is, if the country is divided, this imaginary problem will go away, because nations of 30 million or 10 million or 5 million don't seem alarming to anyone - and they shouldn't be.

The real problem is not population in and of itself, but industrialization. Dividing the country will help those that want to industrialize do so faster and make those who are not really thinking about such things tighten their belts and stop just reproducing anyhow without regard to their economic/developmental situation.

Nigeria is three times the size of Germany (population 80 million) and many more times the size of Japan (population 127 million), but because this article was written by someone in the U.S. - where some states are as big or larger than countries - they tried to make it seem as if there was some sort of overcrowding problem in the very first sentence. There is lots and lots of unused land in Nigeria. The problem is industrialization not mere numbers alone.

I agree with you on this one. Nigeria population need to rise to 300 million. however cites like Lagos needs to be decongested.

Nigerians who are bereft of ideas and solutions romanticize phrases like: Divide the country, break it up into several countries, SNC is the answer, 100% resource control e.t.c.

There is much more to public administration, governance, and leading a country towards development than these idiotic phrases. Those who throw these phrases around typically will not back them up with, plausible implementation plans.

Important issues of how to bypass (or revamp) the current government structure is never addressed. People say SNC will solve our problems but they have no plan of "how to get rid of the current political and legal structure" - a necessary ingredient for the success of SNC.

The same naive people will tell us that breaking Nigeria up will solve the problem, but here again, they conveniently ignore the important issue of how to accomplish this. They may be naive enough to believe that they can snap their fingers and all the tanks and big guns owned by the government will disappear or their local gods will send thunder to blow them up.

Let our Igbo and Hausa brothers stop breeding like pigs. They are the major culprits, reproducing like rabbits. It's so annoying seeing modern couples with more than 3 kids. Disgusting.

Gaggi: Let our Igbo and Hausa brothers stop breeding like pigs. They are the major culprits, reproducing like rabbits. It's so annoying seeing modern couples with more than 3 kids. Disgusting.

By their ignorance, we shall know them

PhysicsQED: Divide the country. Then this problem will go away.

just get the map and divide it. what a stupid way to solve our problems

If you can't feed them, don't breed them. This should be the mantra for Nigerians. Or in other words, do not make children that you cannot support. Why is it that people who live in poverty across the globe produce more children than those with means? I can understand if you live in an agrarian community, but if you live in an urban area, why produce 5 children? The entire mentality needs to stop. Why not just produce 2 children, and focus your attention on them?

Here me out when I say this, a person should be able to afford to look after a child, if they can't, then they shouldn't have it in the first place. They can love their child more than anyone in the world but that love alone isn't going to put food on the table and clothes on its back.

It is incredibly selfish and irresponsible to bring a child into the world when the parents cannot afford to look after it.

[img]http://www.paulchefurka.ca/Overpopulation.jpg[/img]

why is it difficult to see that Nigeria's population is bloated.it is a standard behaviour for managers to inflate cost,this case population,to get more money from the centre,if we come up with a policy that will demand more revenue from places with large population,then we all we see ow our population will shrink fast.
go and ask people who have come to nigeria with a business model for more than 100million people,they all got nasty shocks.
last jamb had about 1.3million candidates,by the time you factor 'repeat candidates',the candidates taking it for the first time will be about half of that.
it took dstv years before they could boost their customer base to the level it is at present,imagine they came to lagos,counted the roof tops,smiled and winked at one another.anybody with friends there should confirm if they have more than 4million customers.
banks nko?do all of them put together have upto 15million customers?
ask dem PTO(mtn,airtel,glo etc)how many registered sims dem get,e reach 20million(not even taking into account people who have more than one sim)
in january FRSC claimed we have upto 8million registered vehicles when we were wondering ow we consumed 15 ship load of petrol everyday.
do u think we will have food riot if indomie is banned.
erect 1004 flats(2 bedroom at the prevailing rate in the particular town) in any other town apart from lagos and 5 or 6 other cities in nigeria and tell me if price of accommodation will not come crashing down.
the pressure an average american child puts on global resources is more than 40 hausa kids.
dont ignore people that say western world go come with anything to reduce our population o.they've done it before,they can,they will or they are doing something to reduce it again

PhysicsQED was trying to pass a message to floor of the the house but nobody seemed to listen, some even took to attacking him....

The solution is industrialization simple, thanks physicsQED and sorry for the unprovoked and unintelligent attacks from you know who...

The way I see it, industrialization > economic empowerment > improved educations and standard of living> reduction in number of children due to balloting attitude.... this is what I believed happened in Asia that had a similar population growth with us as at independence......

But what is preventing us from industrializing? the present unitary structure of government, where government tried to drive growth by trying to run everything and ends up spoiling everything is the key reason....caused by the need to depend on free oil...

Dividing Nigeria will probably break this need and enable people sit up...
This is what I understand from physicsQED post, please correct me if I am wrong...

Kobojunkie, dem oyinbo send you? Maybe oyinbo South Africa no wan make we overwhelm them with Naija boldness. Thank God only few people de see your yarn. Our women are strong and desire to carry as many as they can. If oyinbo no get strength, how that one come concern us. Food is imported because born to rule no wan allow agric loan reach farmers wey wan scatter ground well well. If aboki see better money dem push emir comot. If no be slave trade Africa for pass China by now. You no de see plantain, cocoa yam, fruits & vegetables de grow on their own? Please stay there de enjoy. Light no de here, water no de, but population is increasing, strong & healthy people. If we manage to industrialise, e go better.

Dividing the country doesn't help (at least, not directly.)

The point the article makes is one of population DENSITY and rapid population GROWTH.

Even after dividing Nigeria, many parts will still remain densely populated and/or with very high pop growth.

Now, certainly industrialization will help.

But family planning would also be quite wise. I doubt the economic miracle currently happening in say China would be possible if they'd not instituted family planning many years ago...

physics suggested a solution/solutions but kobo kept flunking them and nobody here has a better idea.
Me think in a case where nobody has a better clue, we analyse physics idea and concretize it except somebody else comes up with a better one.
Oya now!

ekt_bear: Dividing the country doesn't help (at least, not directly.)

The point the article makes is one of population DENSITY and rapid population GROWTH.

Even after dividing Nigeria, many parts will still remain densely populated and/or with very high pop growth.

Now, certainly industrialization will help.

But family planning would also be quite wise. I doubt the economic miracle currently happening in say China would be possible if they'd not instituted family planning many years ago...

For sure at bolded, when one checks, that was critical key to the reduction of growrate in Asia

reagand200:
physics suggested a solution/solutions but kobo kept flunking them and nobody here has a better idea.
Me think in a case where nobody has a better clue, we analyse physics idea and concretize it except somebody else comes up with a better one.
Oya now!

As for analysis see my initial post

DaLover: PhysicsQED was trying to pass a message to floor of the the house but nobody seemed to listen, some even took to attacking him....

The solution is industrialization simple, thanks physicsQED and sorry for the unprovoked and unintelligent attacks from you know who...

The way I see it, industrialization > economic empowerment > improved educations and standard of living> reduction in number of children due to balloting attitude.... this is what I believed happened in Asia that had a similar population growth with us as at independence......

But what is preventing us from industrializing? the present unitary structure of government, where government tried to drive growth by trying to run everything and ends up spoiling everything is the key reason....caused by the need to depend on free oil...

Dividing Nigeria will probably break this need and enable people sit up...
This is what I understand from physicsQED post, please correct me if I am wrong...

As for concretisizing it... I believe the fist thing to be done is to get the Government out of running businesses..Power, health, Education, fuel subsidies....
Thats a good starting point.

Nah.

I'm not sure that industrialization alone will induce lower population growth. One doesn't necessarily follow from the other.

Please visit Nigeria's National Population Commission (NPopC) website or "google" Nigeria Demographic and Health Survey 2008 to compare fertility rates between the north and south. Averagely women in the north have more than 7 children compared to the south (between 4 and 5). It is therefore true that abokis are over-breeding compared to southerners.
In addition, the point is not just the total population, but more important is the rate of population growth. Even China and India with their huge numbers have limited their growth. No nation has ever developed without controlling population growth because it takes time and resources to translate population into development. Do you think Nigeria can double the number of schools, roads, hospitals, electricity that we will need if our population is to double every 25 years.
Last word: Unless and until we are able to limit population explosion, development will continue to elude us.

Nigerian is not evenly congested. Only Lagos and a few other cities are. One solution will be to spread development around the different regions so that people will stop milling toward the already over-bloated city of Lagos. That way every state/city will be similarly or near-similarly populated

PhysicsQED is right that the writer is looking at the land issue from an American eye

The writer also failed to inform us that small NY is over-congested whereas Wyoming, Utah, Arizona, Nevada and the rocky states towards Canada are hardly occupied.

And yes, if the country is divided, we can now know who has been brazenly bloating up the population.

These Muslims who give birth to 100 children should ask themselves why Saudi Arabia and other Islamic states of the middle East are not overpopulated.

Nigeria, Pakistan and Indonesia are about the only Muslim states with high population and guess what, they are not Arabic (implication: they are becoming more Islamic than the inventors of that religion).

Part of the article talks about today.

Part of the article talks about tomorrow.

That one believes that Nigeria is not congested now doesn't mean that one shouldn't take steps to make it less congested later.

300 million Nigerians 25 years from now is a lot. Talk less of what the # will look like in 50 or 100 years.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure...

ekt_bear: Nah.

I'm not sure that industrialization alone will induce lower population growth. One doesn't necessarily follow from the other.

So what do you think will,
remember i did not say industrialization will directly do it, but I illustrated a chain of events that need to happen, i.e industrialization or if you want to go deeper, restructuring governance to encourage productivity of the populace.

Yeah I'm just not sold on industrialization alone being what will slow down pop growth.

If a ton of manufacturing jobs spring up in nigeria and unemployment drops to say 10% or 15%, probably people will actually start having more kids. Since there is more money available.

I think family planning/birth control is needed. And this needs to be done independently of industrialization, not just as a supposed consequence of it.

Nigerians - Keep breeding and ignore these foolish people.

They always have an agenda - in this case its the depopulation of Africa in order to enjoy more of our resources.

They've tried reducing our numbers with condoms,aids, sterilization through vacines - it hasn't worked.

The white man is worried that one day we'll be so many that we'll overrun and take back control of this earth.

Nigeria problem is not overpopulation - but poor urban and town planning. If work and industries were more spread then we wouldn't be listening too and believing this nonsense.

Heh.

So maybe in this sense it would be better if Nigeria could indeed split.

So that those of us who want to institute population control can do so without concerns about being swamped by those who want to breed like cockroach

Re: Nigeria Tested By Rapid Rise In Population - NYT by Gaggi: 6 hours & 7 minutes
Let our Igbo and Hausa brothers stop breeding like pigs. They are the major culprits, reproducing like rabbits. It's so annoying seeing modern couples with more than 3 kids. Disgusting.

The muslims in the North and their muslim brothers in Yorubaland are the ones balloning the population.

Eh.

Population control != negative population growth. Just diminished pop growth.

Regarding the US
a) Pop growth is relatively low
b) The country is the 4th largest on earth by land area, yet only has 300 million people. For comparison with Nigeria, less than 2X the population, but more than 10X the area.

Dunno what the point of comparing with the US is..two very different situations

reagand200:
physics suggested a solution/solutions but kobo kept flunking them and nobody here has a better idea.
Me think in a case where nobody has a better clue, we analyse physics idea and concretize it except somebody else comes up with a better one.
Oya now!

Not every suggestion is a solution. Granted some are potential solution but not in all cases. You also have to weigh the many solutions put forth so as to determine the very best, and avoid hacking at the trunk with the same rubber axe, as we have for the last 30 years.

Let's consider the Nigerian problem from the Power(sector) angle. Back in the 70's, we recognized that we would need to invest heavily into power generation and transmission in order to meet population demand, at that time, and down the road. Our population was about 70-80 million, or less. And we saw the population problem coming, even then, but as usual there were those who said there was no cause for alarm, and our population was ok this and that.

It has been over 30 years. Compare the situation back then, when we had resources and money to throw at the problem, to what we have today. Our population has doubled in that time,demand continues to go up daily, but we don't have money to invest in solving power issues alone, Talk less of tackling health, education etc.
We need to stop prof-erring silly solutions and allow common sense to reign. Telling a man, who already has 10 children, that it is OK for him to go on having more kids, marrying more wives, as long as he gets a second job(industrializes), is not helping solve the problem. We need to curb the explosion, so we can maybe catch up, to some extent, with current demands. We are more than fifty years behind. I don't see the sense in continuing to say things like population growth is not a problem.

Prof-erring stupidity is not same as helping solve a problem. It is OK to not come up with a solution ESPECIALLY when the solution is really a COMMON SENSE solution.

any woman wey get belle make she born nam, na so God want!

Kabikala: [size=13pt] No nation has ever developed without controlling population growth because it takes time and resources to translate population into development. Do you think Nigeria can double the number of schools, roads, hospitals, electricity that we will need if our population is to double every 25 years.
Last word: Unless and until we are able to limit population explosion, development will continue to elude us.[/size]

Common sense . . . No PHD required!!

ekt_bear: Yeah I'm just not sold on industrialization alone being what will slow down pop growth.

If a ton of manufacturing jobs spring up in nigeria and unemployment drops to say 10% or 15%, probably people will actually start having more kids. Since there is more money available.

I think family planning/birth control is needed. And this needs to be done independently of industrialization, not just as a supposed consequence of it.

I think the point people are making about industrialization and pop is that an increased access to jobs brought about via industrialization might reduce the need to have more kids. Hence slowing down pop. Growth.

This can be true.  

1. If industrialization lead to more women getting jobs, and it should  (a) they will marry much later (b) be less dependent on men (c) have less time or motivation to raise a bunch kids

This (1) example is already true in highly industrialized countries in Europe and North America. There are tons of research and examples proving this to be so. 

2. Industrialization cannot exist in a vaccum, I'm certain other things like access to education and information, will accompany it or even catalyze it, those factors are known to cause attitudinal changes which can lead to better family planning.

Something like that is happening in brazil, where women are seeing the need to have less children as the country industrialized and provided more access to jobs and financial power for them.



Having said that, yes, we cannot achieve much if we don't proactively enforce birth control policies. All these things have to work together, I'm not certain one single factor can fix this. 

The divide argument: 

I may be wrong, but I think the "divide and the problem will go away" point being made by PhysicsQED is based on the premise that some parts of the country have a significantly slower pop. growth than others I.e North vs South. The report also made that point. Now if that is true, then dividing it might make the problem seem less daunting, because then we have no Nigeria with x% of pop growth. The % will be considerably lower. Also, if one of the major reasons for this growth in say The North are cultural, then that becomes the problem of The North which will then be a new country.

Bottomline, we have a problem and we need to address it, there are several examples in human history to copy from. The ball is in our court really.

Kobo, do really believe that if Naija's population dropped to let say 50 million, naija's problems will be solved?

nanos:

The muslims in the North and their muslim brothers in Yorubaland are the ones balloning the population.

Ah, Nchara.

Who else so frequently edits their post after you've debunked their point?

Well I'll quote you next time you say something foolish, so this doesn't happen again.

Arosa: Kobo do really believe that if Naija's population dropped to let say 50 million naija's problems will be solved?

Here's one for you to think of. If a man earns Naira 100,000 a month. Do you think his this man has a better chance at improving his lot if he had 2 kids, or 5 kids? please I would like for you to respond to this.

Nigeria's population will probably never head back down to 50 million, ever again, but if we had only 50 million people to cater for, on the budget we have today, what do you think? Don't you think those coal tar roads will last a bit longer without needing serious repair? Don't you think the money for subsidy will at least reach more people, and maybe we will not have save a couple of bucks as opposed to what we are paying today?

none says curbing population growth will SOLVE the problem. NO, however, it will help reduce the burden.

I do not support China's one child policy, because the impact it is having on the Chinese female population, but I would support limiting Nigerian families to 1-3 children. No one should be able to have more than 3 children. In this day and age, I do not understand why people would want to have more than 2 children, but 3 would be the most that I would go to insure an adequate population replacement.

That being said, I still think it is SELFISH for those who do not have the means to keep on producing even though they cannot provide for their children. Why would anyone want to bring any person into this world if they cannot provide for them? It is like me purchasing a dog, knowing that I would not be able to adequately take care of it. I would not set myself up for that failure.