Odunharry please email me at jackbauersballs@gmail.com

@eruditor you really don't like wenger at all.

sinizia:
Nihilist, I disagree with the author and agree with Raumdeuter and Ranieri. The answer is not even far-fetched. Since the inaugural EPL season, the likes of Blackburn, Man Utd, Assanal, Shekpe and Man City that have won it played mostly attacking football with huge amount of goals scored. Even Blackburn that won with 80-something points did it with a better goal difference and attacking than Leceister City. Leceister City's win is one of a kind, it doesn't happen all the time. It's like the history created by Clough with Nottingham Forest. When was the last you heard of such fairy tale?


Barca and Madrid have swept through the league titles in Spain and they did it with brilliant attacking sides while breaking different scoring records and points record. Same can be said of Bayern. Same can be said of Lyon of old and the present PSG. Take it anywhere, the best way to DEFEND is to ATTACK. Juve plays attacking football and that's why they are champions right now. Athletico Madrid even with their ultra-defensive style, are they more successful than Barca or Madrid in the last 4 years? NO.


So since attacking sides have proven to be more successful than defensive sides, I'd rather bank on my team attacking than defending. Defending is a risky job. Even though Atletico survived Bayern 2 days ago, will you tell you me that you weren't on your toes while praying Bayern doesn't score? Atletico were EXTREMELY lucky to have escaped. The best side lost. Shìt happens. We don't use coz of one occurrence to judge 1 thousand happenings. When we had the likes of CR7, in-form Torres, Henry Theirry, Drogba, Nistelrooy and co plying their trade in EPL, Leceister compact football wouldn't have earned them the league


But I agree with you that possession footie doesn't necessarily mean attacking football. Man Utd this season are a prime example of club that holds onto the ball more than any other EPL but with meagre attacking prowess to compliment it. We just keep passing the ball around like headless chickens and end up with 1 or no shot on target at the end of the day. Of what use is the possession football then? But clubs like Bayern and Barca play possession football and still have the best attacks alongside it not forgeting winning multiple league titles with it.

Like most football fans, you have been conditioned to think that attacking football looks a certain type of way.

Leicester and Atletico have both averaged less than 50% possesion this season - Yet both have scored the 3rd highest number of goals in their respective leagues.

Leicester are champions. Atleti are level on points with Barca and are in the UCL final.

My dear sinizia, that is not 'luck'. That is controlled and precise attacking. If City, Spurs, Madrid and Barca are infantry men with rapid fire machine guns, Leicester and Atleti are sharp shooting snipers.

The difference between Atleti/Leicester and Bayern/Barca/City is the emphasis on the collective team effort with the former and reliance on briliant individuals in the latter.

Eruditor also alluded to this in the second half of his post.

Leicester lost Vardy to suspension and won their next match 4-0. Kante was injured and Leicester still won their match. Only Mahrez has stayed available of their 3 main men for the majority of the season but it hasnt really stopped them. Atleti have been bleeding big players during simeone's reign but it hasn't stopped him - Costa gone, Courtois gone, Mandzucic gone, yet Atleti are in the final....with the much derided Flopando Torress up fron no less!

Building on Eruditor's post, I'm now wondring if managers of star studded teams like Barca, bayern, etc feel compelled to 'attack' in a certain kind of way, with a focus on their world class talents.

Simeone and Ranieri have shown us that this other way is viable and need not be sneered at. Jose is finally being vindicated.

Nihilist:


Like most football fans, you have been conditioned to think that attacking football looks a certain type of way.

Leicester and Atletico have both averaged less than 50% possesion this season - Yet both have scored the 3rd highest number of goals in their respective leagues.

Leicester are champions. Atleti are level on points with Barca and are in the UCL final.

My dear sinizia, that is not 'luck'. That is controlled and precise attacking. If City, Spurs, Madrid and Barca are infantry men with rapid fire machine guns, Leicester and Atleti are sharp shooting snipers.

The difference between Atleti/Leicester and Bayern/Barca/City is the emphasis on the collective team effort with the former and reliance on briliant individuals in the latter.

Eruditor also alluded to this in the second half of his post.

Leicester lost Vardy to suspension and won their next match 4-0. Kante was injured and Leicester still won their match. Only Mahrez has stayed available of their 3 main men for the majority of the season but it hasnt really stopped them. Atleti have been bleeding big players during simeone's reign but it hasn't stopped him - Costa gone, Courtois gone, Mandzucic gone, yet Atleti are in the final....with the much derided Flopando Torress up fron no less!

Building on Eruditor's post, I'm now wondring if managers of star studded teams like Barca, bayern, etc feel compelled to 'attack' in a certain kind of way, with a focus on their world class talents.

Simeone and Ranieri have shown us that this other way is viable and need not be sneered at. Jose is finally being vindicated.

Well said...I think we need to accept that football and winning could be achieved indifferent ways

Nihilist:



The difference between Atleti/Leicester and Bayern/Barca/City is the emphasis on the collective team effort with the former and reliance on briliant individuals in the latter.

Its the coaching philosophy. Some coaches prefer to set up lower and play on the counter

If Barcelona play their reserves vs most teams they would still dominate possesion, We saw how Brendan Rodgers played with Swansea and it wasnt because the Swansea players were different individually

When Carlo or Mourinho set up defensively vs Madrid or Bayern it wasnt because madrid had less brilliant individual than the opponent

If there are no coaches a side with more brilliant individuals would dominate possession more

If Leicester with the same players, same coach, play the same style next yr they might not make top 4.

Nihilist:


Like most football fans, you have been conditioned to think that attacking football looks a certain type of way.

Leicester and Atletico have both averaged less than 50% possesion this season - Yet both have scored the 3rd highest number of goals in their respective leagues.

Leicester are champions. Atleti are level on points with Barca and are in the UCL final.

My dear sinizia, that is not 'luck'. That is controlled and precise attacking. If City, Spurs, Madrid and Barca are infantry men with rapid fire machine guns, Leicester and Atleti are sharp shooting snipers.

The difference between Atleti/Leicester and Bayern/Barca/City is the emphasis on the collective team effort with the former and reliance on briliant individuals in the latter.

Eruditor also alluded to this in the second half of his post.

Leicester lost Vardy to suspension and won their next match 4-0. Kante was injured and Leicester still won their match. Only Mahrez has stayed available of their 3 main men for the majority of the season but it hasnt really stopped them. Atleti have been bleeding big players during simeone's reign but it hasn't stopped him - Costa gone, Courtois gone, Mandzucic gone, yet Atleti are in the final....with the much derided Flopando Torress up fron no less!

Building on Eruditor's post, I'm now wondring if managers of star studded teams like Barca, bayern, etc feel compelled to 'attack' in a certain kind of way, with a focus on their world class talents.

Simeone and Ranieri have shown us that this other way is viable and need not be sneered at. Jose is finally being vindicated.

You can't even compare Leceister and Atletico side by side. You are forgetting that Atletico have been punching above their weights the past 5 years and have been building different quality squads when compared to Leceister that are one season wonders. Are we talking of Atleti that paraded the likes of skilled sharp shooters like Torres, Forlan, Costa, Falcao and Aguero? Atleti is like the Arsenal of Spain or the Liverpool of Spainish league. This their ultra-defensive style wasn't achieved in one season like Leceister's compact football. They've been building this playing style for years and hence can work wonders with it when compared to Leceister that have just had ONE good season where the traditional top 5 teams were utterly irritating. I read a column on one football site where the editor said before this season, if any of the top coaches in EPL where presented with a list containing names like Vardy, none of the coaches would take them even for free. Is it the team you want to compare Atleti with?


Leceister triumphed in a time when the tops dogs were useless. You know what? I'll bookmark this page, so that I'll dig it up when Leceister meets the likes of Bayern and Barca in next season's UCL and defeats them like Atleti. Them no born them well. Barca and Bayern will destroy them and their style of conservative and compact footie. You'll see.


And about Mourinho being vindicated, only a clueless fool will say Mourinho doesn't play attacking footie. Forget that he parks the bus against tough sides, Mourinho teams are very good in attack. Mourinho will play attacking football depending on the players he has. I can bet my left balls that neither Simeone nor Ranieri would play defensive footie with Barca-esque kind of squad.

sinizia:


You can't even compare Leceister and Atletico side by side. You are forgetting that Atletico have been punching above their weights the past 5 years and have been building different quality squads when compared to Leceister that are one season wonders. Are we talking of Atleti that paraded the likes of skilled sharp shooters like Torres, Forlan, Costa, Falcao and Aguero? Atleti is like the Arsenal of Spain or the Liverpool of Spainish league. This their ultra-defensive style wasn't achieved in one season like Leceister's compact football. They've been building this playing style for years and hence can work wonders with it when compared to Leceister that have just had ONE good season where the traditional top 5 teams were utterly irritating. I read a column on one football site where the editor said before this season, if any of the top coaches in EPL where presented with a list containing names like Vardy, none of the coaches would take them even for free. Is it the team you want to compare Atleti with?


Leceister triumphed in a time when the tops dogs were useless. You know what? I'll bookmark this page, so that I'll dig it up when Leceister meets the likes of Bayern and Barca in next season's UCL and defeats them like Atleti. Them no born them well. Barca and Bayern will destroy them and their style of conservative and compact footie. You'll see.


And about Mourinho being vindicated, only a clueless fool will say Mourinho doesn't play attacking footie. Forget that he parks the bus against tough sides, Mourinho teams are very good in attack. Mourinho will play attacking football depending on the players he has. I can bet my left balls that neither Simeone nor Ranieri would play defensive footie with Barca-esque kind of squad.

The point here was that Leicester and Atleti show that it CAN be done

Leceister's EPL triumph is basically down to 3 points.

1. The traditional superpowers being shitty this season.
2. Their determination and team spirit. I've got to give them kudos, they really tried.
3. A huge slice of luck too.


I'll only believe no. 3 is not among if they are able to contest for EPL title for 4 consecutive seasons using this formation and playing style like Atleti is doing. Atleti has created, espoused and perfected this defensive style for years and it's now working for them. Let's watch Leceister repeat this cycle for years to come and then I'll be a believer. For now, they are nothing but one season wonders.

Nihilist:

The point here was that Leicester and Atleti show that it CAN be done

Yes, it can be done, I won't dispute that. But keeping it going and achieving with it is the most important. Staying on top and not getting to the top is the hardest. Let's watch what next 4 years will bring for Leceister.

4th place Spanish team getting hammered to sege vs midtable EPL team.

This is what happens when EPL teams take Europa seriously. Same way Chelsea took it serious in 2013.

@ Dk

Dem say make i ask which if ur teams dey play euro finals this month?

diggz:
@ Dk

Dem say make i ask which if ur teams dey play euro finals this month?

Which of yours would be making it?

Ibime:
4th place Spanish team getting hammered to sege vs midtable EPL team.

This is what happens when EPL teams take Europa seriously. Same way Chelsea took it serious in 2013.

so, all what man city did yesterday was just a joke despite knowing the importance of wining the champions league

If even that of man city was true, what about arsenal nightmare of always facing Barcelona?

Please, can I have your digit? I need some advice from you.

Nihilist i think it's really necessary at this point to define exactly what is attacking or possession football as they are both terms with such mercurial understanding.
IMO the current Barcelona team in my opinion is considerably more attacking than Pep's but the latter's version averaged greater possession. What kind of top team would you refer to be as attacking in theses scenarios; a top team executing relative high number of attacking moves that enables it to score a sh1t load of goals against majority of teams in it's league (basically a flat track bully) but is more conservative the big games which are few or a top team one that attacks and averages high possession similarly all through?

In the 90s when Italy more or less dominated, i remembered the major emphasis was on the catenaccio although those sides were very capable of great attacking moves.

I can't justify or establish arguments if the meanings or the entirety of these terms are still in question.

Ibime:
4th place Spanish team getting hammered to sege vs midtable EPL team.

This is what happens when EPL teams take Europa seriously. Same way Chelsea took it serious in 2013.

Of the last 6 CL finalists 5 have been from La liga

I think its because EPL teams havent been taking CL seriously

emekakelvin:


so, all what man city did yesterday was just a joke despite knowing the importance of wining the champions league

If even that of man city was true, what about arsenal nightmare of always facing Barcelona?

Please, can I have your digit? I need some advice from you.

Beyond the top 3 Spanish teams, the rest of the league could not stand their English equivalents jf their English equivalents decide to take it serious.

And even beyond Villarreal, Malaga, Bilbao, Sevilla, Celta and Valencia, the rest of the league lacks strength in depth.

Ibime:
Beyond the top 3 Spanish teams, the rest of the league could not stand their English equivalents jf their English equivalents decide to take it serious.

And even beyond Villarreal, Malaga, Bilbao, Sevilla, Celta and Valencia, the rest of the league lacks strength in depth.

This is complete Bullshitt.

CL which is a top 4 competition La liga dominates (Won 3 of the last 4- 2016, 2015, 2014)

Europa which is 5-8 competition La Liga dominates (Won the 3 last 4 )

So you mention top 3, You add another 7 to it making 10 which is half of the league and says the league lack depth

Lets try this

Take City, Chelsea, Man Utd out, Add Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool everton, West Ham? (I cant even name 10) Which are the sides that have depth in the English league? Bournemouth Crystal Palace, West brom Norwich, Sunderland Swansea, Watford or who?

Ibime:


Beyond the top 3 Spanish teams, the rest of the league could not stand their English equivalents jf their English equivalents decide to take it serious.

And even beyond Villarreal, Malaga, Bilbao, Sevilla, Celta and Valencia, the rest of the league lacks strength in depth.

The part of your post which always depicts the idea of clubs taking the premier European club competition seriously is getting me confuse. How will a club be playing football without the objective of winning the competition even at the height of it all.

The analysis of lack of depth in other Spanish team not mentioned can also be found in epl without serious search

raumdeuter:


This is complete Bullshitt.

CL which is a top 4 competition La liga dominates (Won 3 of the last 4- 2016, 2015, 2014)

Europa which is 5-8 competition La Liga dominates (Won the 3 last 4 )

So you mention top 3, You add another 7 to it making 10 which is half of the league and says the league lack depth

Lets try this

Take City, Chelsea, Man Utd out, Add Arsenal, Spurs, Liverpool everton, West Ham? (I cant even name 10) Which are the sides that have depth in the English league? Bournemouth Crystal Palace, West brom Norwich, Sunderland Swansea, Watford or who?

Put Bournemouth and co against Las Palmas, Deportivo, Granada, Levante etc they will beat them 80% of the time.

My argument is:

Top 3 - La liga hands down

Positions 4-8: EPL would win if they take it serious. Blame this on Spurs who keep hogging that position and fielding kids and subs in Europa while prioritising holy grail of 4th place.

Bottom half: La Liga na complete wash.

The level of competition and week in, week out struggle is tougher in the EPL.

Ibime:


Put Bournemouth and co against Las Palmas, Deportivo, Granada, Levante etc they will beat them 80% of the time.

My argument is:

Top 3 - La liga hands down

Positions 4-8: EPL would win if they take it serious. Blame this on Spurs who keep hogging that position and fielding kids and subs in Europa while prioritising holy grail of 4th place.

Bottom half: La Liga na complete wash.

The level of competition and week in, week out struggle is tougher in the EPL.

This is a very porous argument

Top 3 that we have evidence for based on CL appearances La Liga wins

5-8 which we still have evidence based on Europe performances La Liga still wins but you found a way to qualify with not taking serious. Liverpool and Everton sure took it serious last year and Man utd took it serious this year

Bottom 10 which no one has evidence for You claim EPL is better without any evidence or data

The only one without evidence is the one you are sure of, Can anything be more dishonest?

WHy wont they struggle when the top teams in EPL is very weak. Is leicester not winning the league? Put this Leicester in La Liga and see if they make top 10

Nihilist:
Odunharry please email me at jackbauersballs@gmail.com

nice.. confirm

raumdeuter:


Which of yours would be making it?

Liverpool...! Na which of ur team go play Europa or UCL final ?

raumdeuter:


This is a very porous argument

Top 3 that we have evidence for based on CL appearances La Liga wins

5-8 which we still have evidence based on Europe performances La Liga still wins but you found a way to qualify with not taking serious. Liverpool and Everton sure took it serious last year and Man utd took it serious this year

Bottom 10 which no one has evidence for You claim EPL is better without any evidence or data

The only one without evidence is the one you are sure of, Can anything be more dishonest?

The only thing in argument here is top 5-8, and it is clear even in England here that no one values the competition from the public to the clubs to the players themselves. And the no1 culprit of this is Spurs, the habitual English resident of that competition who show utter disdain for the tournament. The £5m on offer will not change Spurs life, but it will change that of their Spanish equivalent Sevilla.

Even after Sevilla, Valencia and co are finished competing for that tourney, you will see Spurs and Liverpool rip their best players like Federico Fazio, Bobby Soldado, Alberto Moreno and those same players will come and flop in England.

As for bottom half, that is clear. Regional teams like Eibar, Levante, Almeria etc with 6000 seater stadiums can never compete with their English counterparts.

Ibime:


Put Bournemouth and co against Las Palmas, Deportivo, Granada, Levante etc they will beat them 80% of the time.

My argument is:

Top 3 - La liga hands down

Positions 4-8: EPL would win if they take it serious. Blame this on Spurs who keep hogging that position and fielding kids and subs in Europa while prioritising holy grail of 4th place.

Bottom half: La Liga na complete wash.

The level of competition and week in, week out struggle is tougher in the EPL.

Let's congratulate Liverpool. They became the 1st club to beat a Spanish team in 2 seasons. What an achievement!!!

However, don't use this to generalise. English clubs are poor, not because they don't take it serious, but the fact is they are not good enough. Look at city for example, judging from their play, it's so obvious that they were the odd team in the last 4.

Arsenal will always be arsenal because epl makes things easy for them. Get knocked out in 2nd round, make top 4 again, and again and again. You can't try that rubbish in Spain. Arsenal will NEVER make top 6 with this rubbish performance in Spain.

Villarreal have qualified for UCL next season, so they don't really need Europa to qualify. Liverpool wants UCL more badly than Villarreal. Let's see how they will fare against Sevilla who also needs UCL badly.

Ibime:


The only thing in argument here is top 5-8, and it is clear even in England here that no one values the competition from the public to the clubs to the players themselves. And the no1 culprit of this is Spurs, the habitual English resident of that competition who show utter disdain for the tournament. The £5m on offer will not change Spurs life, but it will change that of their Spanish equivalent Sevilla.

Even after Sevilla, Valencia and co are finished competing for that tourney, you will see Spurs and Liverpool rip their best players like Federico Fazio, Bobby Soldado, Alberto Moreno and those same players will come and flop in England.

As for bottom half, that is clear. Regional teams like Eibar, Levante, Almeria etc with 6000 seater stadiums can never compete with their English counterparts.

Lets check this claim using the last 2 seasons Spurs, Liverpool Man Utd, Everton have made Europa in that time

The Everton team that crashed out last season to Kiev started Howard, Coleman Jaglieka Baines Barry, McCarthy barkley, Naismith Lukaku

The Liverpool team that crashed out to Besiktas last season started Mignolet, Skrtl, Lovren Can, Moreno Allen, Sterling, Sturridge

Man Utd that crashed out to Liverpool this season started DDG, Smalling, Blind, Rojo, Carrick, Mata Fellaini, Martial

So aside Spurs, who are these EPL teams who dont take Europa serious?

Mata who won Chelseas best player of the year twice in a row was from Valencia, David Silva one of Ciys best player was from Valencia same with Cazorla. How is Moreno a flop in England?

So how does the number of seat in a stadium affect the performance of the teams? Villareal that just played the Europa Semi That have hosted CL semis is only 25,000

Eibar, levante and Almeria would pummel Bournemeouth Norwich Watford Swansea, West brom and Villa anyday

Debroslink:


Let's congratulate Liverpool. They became the 1st club to beat a Spanish team in 2 seasons. What an achievement!!!

However, don't use this to generalise. English clubs are poor, not because they don't take it serious, but the fact is they are not good enough. Look at city for example, judging from their play, it's so obvious that they were the odd team in the last 4.

Arsenal will always be arsenal because epl makes things easy for them. Get knocked out in 2nd round, make top 4 again, and again and again. You can't try that rubbish in Spain. Arsenal will NEVER make top 6 with this rubbish performance in Spain.

Villarreal have qualified for UCL next season, so they don't really need Europa to qualify. Liverpool wants UCL more badly than Villarreal. Let's see how they will fare against Sevilla who also needs UCL badly.

This is semifinal, not 2nd round or QF. Villareal were just not on the same level and were battered from pillar to post from minute 0 to 90. Infact, Swansea and Stoke would play a better game than that nonsense they put up.

To buttress my point about all these cheap Europa wins that La liga use to claim their league has depth, we saw what happened to Valencia and Sevilla in UCL this season. Even ninjas like Genk were bullying them.

If Spanish league is so fantastic, I would expect the traditional 4th and 5th team to do well in the competition.

We saw the only time Spurs qualified for UCL, they went straight to the quarter final, hammering the likes of Intermilan on the way.

Same Spurs team that cant even make quarterfinal of Europa will miraculously reach latter stages of UCL on their first attempt. It is obvious that Spurs have bigger fish to fry than Europa that the likes of Sevilla are delighted to compete in.

all these things wey una dey talk, i no dey understand self. how average epl players go qualify their team for europa league final, but World class bundesliga players no fit do the same for their team. the worst be say, the average players follow send some of the world class players go house. I don't get it. can someone help in explaining this? even the English and Brazilian hype follow dey mastermind the thing.

Greatihex:
all these things wey una dey talk, i no dey understand self. how average epl players go qualify their team for europa league final, but World class bundesliga players no fit do the same for their team. the worst be say, the average players follow send some of the world class players go house. I don't get it. can someone help in explaining this? even the English and Brazilian hype follow dey mastermind the thing.

Maybe because Bundesliga teams have bigger fishes to fry like CL which was why Bayern and Wolfsburg were topping EPL teams in their groups and leave the Europa for the useless EPL

Thats why Wolfsburg 9th in Bundesliga were able to top a group with Man utd, Wolfsburg were able to beat Madrid 2-0 at home while Madrid molested City everywhere home away everywhere without even getting out of second gear

Debroslink:


Arsenal will always be arsenal because epl makes things easy for them. Get knocked out in 2nd round, make top 4 again, and again and again. You can't try that rubbish in Spain. Arsenal will NEVER make top 6 with this rubbish performance in Spain.

I an not an arssssnal fan,I don't like the club,I despise wengay and wouldn't even wish them good for any reason. However, you are completely wrong in your judgement bros.

I strongly believe arsssnal will never fall below the first 3 in that LA liga.

No try rubbish dem because we the natural haters dey always hate dem.

diggz:
Liverpool...! Na which of ur team go play Europa or UCL final ?

I didnt know you are now a Liverpool fan, After Chelsea failed you ported to Liverpool

diggz:


I an not an arssssnal fan,I don't like the club,I despise wengay and wouldn't even wish them good for any reason. However, you are completely wrong in your judgement bros.

I strongly believe arsssnal will never fall below the first 3 in that LA liga.

No try rubbish dem because we the natural haters dey always hate dem.

You see Barcelona, Atletico and Real and you think Arsenal would top one of them in a league? I need the number of your weed seller

Ibime:


This is semifinal, not 2nd round or QF. Villareal were just not on the same level and were battered from pillar to post from minute 0 to 90. Infact, Swansea and Stoke would play a better game than that nonsense they put up.

To buttress my point about all these cheap Europa wins that La liga use to claim their league has depth, we saw what happened to Valencia and Sevilla in UCL this season. Even ninjas like Genk were bullying them.

If Spanish league is so fantastic, I would expect the traditional 4th and 5th team to do well in the competition.

We saw the only time Spurs qualified for UCL, they went straight to the quarter final, hammering the likes of Intermilan on the way.

Same Spurs team that cant even make quarterfinal of Europa will miraculously reach latter stages of UCL on their first attempt. It is obvious that Spurs have bigger fish to fry than Europa that the likes of Sevilla are delighted to compete in.

King big deal about Spurs? Valencia went all the way to the UCL final match in their 1st ever attempt. Villarreal went all the way to the semi final of UCL in their 1st attempt too.

Atletico Madrid won the Europa league trophy in their 1st attempt. So tell me something new.

Our Spanish big 7 are bullies in Europe. It's very hard for any non Spanish team to beat us in knock out stageof any European competition whether UCL or Europa. That's why I say congrats to Liverpool for a decent job against a team who doesn't need Europa league to qualify for UCL, hence Villarreal were not serious in that match.