Ibime:

Shut the hell up!

If you dont know how key Unions are to civil society and Governance, best remain quiet.

Where you around in the 90's when the Unions brought IBB's regime to standstill?

Of what relevance is that to this present situation? Whatever they did in the 90s is fine and well, but no excuse for solidarity strike in 2012.

I am familiar with the value of unions to society. But I am also aware of some of the obstructionist tendencies that they have.

If this vague, abstract and irrelevant crap is your only argument, then you simply have no argument at all.

Please don't waste my time ever again with garbage like what you just posted.

dwas: Whats wrong with this doctors now. I think fashola should move to the next stage. Hes still paid their last month salary despite their absent at work. A doctor disclosed.

Most of them that have private hospital dont pay their workers well. yet they feed on govt.

may God help us

didnt want to post again on this topic but dwarf above here is d type of nigerian i mentioned who has made a vow against knowledge.not only that but he is a rumor monger of d beer parlor variety.d doctors' last paid salary was for march despite working in april,so why do u come here to post rubbish ? u r ignorant and blissfully so but must you try to convert people to your dimwitted way of life?

ekt_bear: So these guys enjoy free accommodation while they strike, no?

Why on earth does either the state or FG offer free housing?

Don't they realize that it makes it easier for the doctors to strike?

Because if they did not offer any form of housing to SOME of these doctors, the gross inadequacy of the salaries paid to the doctors would be blindingly apparent.

I cannot remember when last you posted an intelligent comment on this Fashola/doctors issue. All you do is parrot the State Government's position, attempting to use the hippocratic oath's tenets to place the doctors as the guilty party. You also forget Fashola swore an oath to protect the lives of Lagosians too.

The incremental improvement in remunerations the doctors are asking for will not amount to any massive sum. I challenge you to multiply 788 by an optimistic estimate of 30k increase per head and see if it is an apocalyptic sum like Fashola and his goons are claiming. All this has become is a matter of pride and hardheadedness on the part of the Lagos state govt...and praise-singers like yourself have swallowed the bullcrap hook, line and sinker.

Years and years of dialogue and threats and still the employer has not budged. Lagos state deserves a well motivated workforce of doctors and i wish the good citizens of lagos have the brains to understand this. As i am fond of saying, I have yet to meet any Lagosian who has ever given a medical doctor a discount on account of their noble profession. Asking people to give up the chance to better the lives of their families just because 'they have to save lives' is frankly mor0nic.

texazzpete:

Because if they did not offer any form of housing to SOME of these doctors, the gross inadequacy of the salaries paid to the doctors would be blindingly apparent.

The point is, pay cash equivalent of the housing.....

Perhaps if you read my comments and posts more carefully, this would be clear.

I cannot remember when last you posted an intelligent comment on this Fashola/doctors issue. All you do is parrot the State Government's position, attempting to use the hippocratic oath's tenets to place the doctors as the guilty party. You also forget Fashola swore an oath to protect the lives of Lagosians too.

This seems somewhat implausible, given that I don't know what the state government's official position is.

Look, my position isn't really about Fashola. As you all know, I'm a free market sort of guy. I believe that employers should have freedom to employ who they want at wages as low as they can find, and that employees should have freedom to work where they want, at wages as high as they can find.

Am I enjoying pointing out the hypocrisy and selfishness of these doctors and their union? Yes, I am. But that actually isn't the heart of the matter. Freedom for both employers and laborers is.

The incremental improvement in remunerations the doctors are asking for will not amount to any massive sum. I challenge you to multiply 788 by an optimistic estimate of 30k increase per head and see if it is an apocalyptic sum like Fashola and his goons are claiming. All this has become is a matter of pride and hardheadedness on the part of the Lagos state govt...and praise-singers like yourself have swallowed the bullcrap hook, line and sinker.

Years and years of dialogue and threats and still the employer has not budged. Lagos state deserves a well motivated workforce of doctors and i wish the good citizens of lagos have the brains to understand this. As i am fond of saying, I have yet to meet any Lagosian who has ever given a medical doctor a discount on account of their noble profession. Asking people to give up the chance to better the lives of their families just because 'they have to save lives' is frankly mor0nic.

This is all irrelevant to my position.

This doctors with the way they play with people's life, i wonder how our heavenly father would judge them because they take patients life for granted. But mind u, there are few honest one among them all they know is to drag for supremacy over the hospital in every unit. God will judge them all. Health workers and doctors are not in a any working relationship which suppose to be so since this is what is done well abroad. I think Fashola and the FG should bring back the coroner's report as check on our health system. If you go to hospitals they use patients to improve their treating skills. WHen i lost my sister there i knew what the health sector in Nigeria is .... a shit.

Doctors must obey civil service rule and work well with health workers. Pride goes before a fall. Their end/reign is here...

ekt_bear: What the fvck type of bulls1t is this.

Solidarity strike?

Because the Lagos government didn't recall its employees? What business is it of yours who the Lagos government decides to hire or fire?

These doctors are all crazy.

The unions 100%, absolutely must be broken.

Evil and monstrous entities, unions.

In as much as the strike is uncalled for, you do not conclude that it is none of their business. They all belong to same professional bodies and an injustice to one is an injustice to all as such, they are only trying to forestall a re-occurence of another by a tyrant government by making a statement.

ekt_bear: Fashola should stand firm, and refuse to back down. The doctors must learn who is the employer, and who is the employee.

Now I see you are just a boot licker of Fashola. Little wonder you were spewing gibberish.

GboyegaD:

In as much as the strike is uncalled for, you do not conclude that it is none of their business. They all belong to same professional bodies and an injustice to one is an injustice to all as such, they are only trying to forestall a re-occurence of another by a tyrant government by making a statement.

Do the federal doctors have a grouse with their own employer?

Aren't doctors in my own Ekiti State also part of this same union?

Do you know how angry I would be if they decided to do solidarity strike and even a single person died or didn't receive treatment as a result of such a strike?

If you don't have beef with your employer, then you shouldn't strike.

If your employer is paying you what you've agreed upon, then there is no reason for strike.

Solidarity strike is pure and utter insanity.

Evil Brain: I'm a doctor and I haven't been paid for months either. I still go to work everyday even though I'm usually balls to the wall broke.

People don't really understand what these doctors are fighting for. It's not really about the small amount of money Lagos refused to pay. It's about the principle that your employer cannot tamper with your money no matter what, even if they are the government. It's to show that when you sign an agreement, you have to keep your end no matter who you are. Might is not right.

If you look at it in those terms, then the doctors are really fighting for all Nigerians.

For a single guy like me, it would be so easy to move to Ghana and get more money for doing less work in a far safer and saner environment. The reason I stay here is because money is not really the issue. The same applies to most doctors.

The bolded part is the gist of the matter from the perspective of the Doctors.

But I agree with Oyb's advice - leave while you can - It get's more and more difficult with each passing year.

I learnt the hard way that you can't afford to be 'charitable' and altruistic - in a society like Nigeria . . . not when you're frustrated, you can't.

When the curse lifted or whatever it was that held me bound 'serving humanity' as a ‘godforsaken and wretched Doctor . . . who believed that’ money is not really the issue'. . . I briefly visited the Gambia and also Ghana to check out things there, before deciding to jump ship completely and do something better with my life!

In those days . . . in the early 2000’s. . . it was still pretty easy to leave Nigeria for places like the Republic of Ireland, T&T, Barbados and even this UK where I have finally docked at to practice with a bit more dignity.

Now it's become increasingly more difficult to travel out as more and more people are shed of the shackles that bound them to whatever pledge of poverty they made . . . which certainly is not part of the Hippocratic oath, increasing by day the competition in practically every country that offers a semblance of respect to Doctors!

In my 'batch' that left when we did, at least 2 travelled to Bridgetown in Barbados, and are now Consultants. Then, there was no need for exams or 'primaries' before you could got into the residency programme there. And you were also paid way better than you got in Nigeria! You can Google Queen Elizabeth Hospital in Bridgetown and contact them to find out what their requirements are now. I suspect there’s an exam but i’m sure it’s still easier than PLAB and USMLE . . .

The bottom line - if you are still single, leave like yesterday . . . you're worth more than the nonsense being hurled at you in Naija. When you’re more comfortable and have the privilege due you as a Doctor, to want the finer things of life, you can then afford to say; ‘it’s not really about the money’ . . .

i think this kind of situation has happened before.

was there a time when a lot of cuban doctors were hired due to a standoff between the govt and striking health staff- i seem to remember someone telling me this, but i'm not really sure.



anyway, @ topic

all parties involved need to reach some kind of agreement and consider the fact that its the common man who is at the receiving end.

Mynd_44: Yeah unions are important but the NMA has become a Bunch of thieves who have compromised their oaths

Just like the government. If the government had agreed with them to pay them on a particular scale then why renege

Lmao.

Boot-licker of Fashola. I don't give a damn about Fashola. He isn't the point. There is a bigger issue at stake here.

Honestly, some of ya'll are dumbazzes...I probably shouldn't be wasting my time expecting you to see the larger picture.

Mcdondayan: My question is, is it by force to work for the lagos state govt? I think he shld focus on recruiting more docs who are willing to work in lagos owned hospitals. These guys deserve no mercy at all. Imagine how many pple ll die in these fedral hospitals because of "the solidarity strike"

And the many more that will die since the quack now moves about in ward coats as doctors. The experience the older doctors have are not from things the new doctors learnt in theory as such, we need them all to improve our health sector.

ekt_bear: Solidarity strikes should be illegal.

If you have no beef with your employer, then you should not be permitted to strike.

Especially if you are an essential worker like a doctor.

Then your employer should work in line with the agreements you reach with them.

naptu2: Unions became very powerful during the military era. They were one of the ways in which the people held the government in check.

However, I think the power they had has gone to their heads. The unions believe that the people will back them no matter what. Unions put their selfish interests ahead of the interests of the people and it is the duty of the government and the people to curb the excesses of the unions.

Tanker drivers park on the expressway, causing traffic jams and endangering the lives of the people. Whenever the government acts to dislodge them they go on strike, causing fuel scarcity and hardship for the masses. Because the government is always seen as an evil entity (reputation gained due to military dictators & corrupt politicians), the people side with the unions and pressure the government to back down.


Doctors go on "solidarity strike", endangering the lives of patients, although the doctors are being paid, etc. I believe it is one of such strikes, held a few years ago, in which state doctors went on "solidarity strike" with the federal counterparts, that finally turned Fashola against the doctors.

And government destroys more lives by asking the experienced ones to go home. In as much as strike is not the best solution, the high handedness of governance in Nigeria has made it the only tool in our possession to bring the government back to their senses.

[b][/b]all these so called tin demogod

This doctors with the way they play with people's life, i wonder how our heavenly father would judge them because they take patients life for granted. But mind u, there are few honest one among them all they know is to drag for supremacy over the hospital in every unit. God will judge them all. Health workers and doctors are not in a any working relationship which suppose to be so since this is what is done well abroad. I think Fashola and the FG should bring back the coroner's report as check on our health system. If you go to hospitals they use patients to improve their treating skills. WHen i lost my sister there i knew what the health sector in Nigeria is .... a poo.

Doctors must obey civil service rule and work well with health workers. Pride goes before a fall. Their end/reign is here...

~Bluetooth:


Dont mind those sick minds. . .Let them all go on strike afteral the masses know who the real gladiator is.I just hope the FG can enforce the No work,No pay rule while the strike lasts.

This can only work when the FG performs its roles. However, with them not having clean hands, they do not have the guts to demand such from the citizenry.

i respect u ~Bluetooth: tanks for all yur comments they are matured.

Ibadiarann:

Shame on the Doctors not the Governor.

Shame on government my brother. They called for the strike. How there you reach an agreement and then renege. Government in Nigeria is just so terrible.

LeoMax: Whose side are you ? The bloody doctors who care how rich they could be instead of saving lives ? If they wanted silly enrichment, they were supposed to be in politics

Were you expecting them to do that for you free of charge. Don't you know dental care is very expensive? You truly cannot blame them for charging you that much because you benefitted in returns from the service they rendered.

LeoMax: Horticulture (flowering) is a budgeted expense ! There was no provision for their sudden desire on the budget. Why cant they simply treat patients and go on hunger strike, thats an option!

What sudden desire An agreement that has been reached how many years ago Why not just research why we are where we are today on this matter?

Gaybriel: I thought doctors are people who value human lives above money and other material things. Oh, how wrong i was! I thought the first principle in medicine is to value human lives FIRST but i was wrong. I'm beginning to dislike the doctors in Nigeria. They have forgotten the essence of their profession. If they continue to whine what do they want the military personnel to do which believe in obey the last order. If you think you are a doctor then know also that the governor is a lawyer! It will be difficult to win him on constitutional ground. The doctors working for the FG are the most foolish for their solidarity strike.

Bros, you are missing it. They still perform humanitarian service however, they deserved to be paid for their work. Even the bible says the laborer is worthy of his reward. Government should fulfil their part of the agreement and should they go on strike then we can blame them.

~Bluetooth:


Bros abeg go siddon for gutter with this your unwanted explanation. . .Do you mind telling us how much you currently earn as a doctor and we compare it with what is obtainable in the same civil service in relation to other occupation ? Why is it doctors alone ? People are just sick and tired of your every now and then strikes.It's not about doctors and lagos government again,it's about Doctors vs lagosians.

Have you ever read any article on education and wage rate? All over the world, doctors are well paid compared to any other profession because of the value they add to lives. Do not beef them because you chose not to study medicine so let them earn whatever they earn. If you feel they earn too much, then go back to school to study medicine.

~Bluetooth:


Doctors are not important than the police,soldiers and every others Nigerians that do hazardous jobs to keep Nigerians safe ! If farmers were government workers,i'm sure all of us would be dead by now !

Very shallow reasoning.

GboyegaD:

Very shallow reasoning.

i think you are not logical because u are full of ego when u have nothing in your head. When u lose your father in a hospital u would know what i mean. Dunce.

ekt_bear:

Do the federal doctors have a grouse with their own employer?

Aren't doctors in my own Ekiti State also part of this same union?

Do you know how angry I would be if they decided to do solidarity strike and even a single person died or didn't receive treatment as a result of such a strike?

If you don't have beef with your employer, then you shouldn't strike.

If your employer is paying you what you've agreed upon, then there is no reason for strike.

Solidarity strike is pure and utter insanity.

The first point of the solidarity would have to start from Lagos State because they bear most of the effect of the decision of Fashola. There is a need to put him in order because he might have taken the decision knowing fully well that people have the option of turning to the Federal Hospitals should the strike continue in Lagos State. The issue here is Fashola acted wrongly since he was the one who reneged on an agreement of over 3years and that he should be bold enough to accept rather than acting silly.

Many people commenting are ignorant of the demand of the doctors. Why did Gov Fashola signed an agreement he knows he will not be able to keep. The doctors are simply asking him to implement the agreement. Also why will he pay lagos state judges more than federal judges and refuse to pay lagos state doctors as federal docs. May be cos he is a barrister. It is only in naija that doctors are sacked for demanding for government to honour her words. Government beg people that carry guns and bombs for dialogue but can't dialogue wit armless educated doctors. Its height of hypocrisy. Lagos gov can't win the war.

naija4change:

i think you are not logical because u are full of ego when u have nothing in your head. When u lose your father in a hospital u would know what i mean. Dunce.

What ego are we referring to here? An employer reneges on an earlier agreement and it led to an industrial action and his best bet was to sack them? Do you understand the word logic you used? Whether or not I lose my father in an hospital does it mean I should now support injustice? I must confess you are too vague in reasoning and I truly would not blame you but ...

naija4change: [b][/b]all these so called tin demogod

This doctors with the way they play with people's life, i wonder how our heavenly father would judge them because they take patients life for granted. But mind u, there are few honest one among them all they know is to drag for supremacy over the hospital in every unit. God will judge them all. Health workers and doctors are not in a any working relationship which suppose to be so since this is what is done well abroad. I think Fashola and the FG should bring back the coroner's report as check on our health system. If you go to hospitals they use patients to improve their treating skills. WHen i lost my sister there i knew what the health sector in Nigeria is .... a poo.

Doctors must obey civil service rule and work well with health workers. Pride goes before a fall. Their end/reign is here...

Your experience in a hospital and the hear says made you conclude that there isn't a good relationship between doctors and health workers right? Nigerians with rumour mongering.

ok, this is all about more money right?

fine.

but after paying these doctors more money, will the equipment they need to work also magically appear in the hospitals? will the hospitals expand, and multiply to help the congestion issues?


i think the answer to that is no, therefore they will get paid like double their current wages for doing the same things they have been doing, in the same useless work environments, with the same absence of meaningful equipment to justify their white coats and lofty title!!


i wonder why fashola simply did'nt offer to sack half of them and use their salaries to double the ones remaining. im sure this greedy arses would have taken that deal!

like how many professions in this country earn anything near what these docs earn now? i need examples.

last week they were comparing their wages to that of politicians! like bloody hell!!

GboyegaD:

Your experience in a hospital and the hear says made you conclude that there isn't a good relationship between doctors and health workers right? Nigerians with rumour mongering.

if you are sincere with your self now, post a thread on the working relationship between doctors vs nurses and health workers (especially Medical Lab. Scientists). You would see truth it would be like a probe report.

I unionism because i am an activist but Lagos Doctors is too much. Check the difference between what a federal doctor collects and what LASG pays. Be sincere, it is very negligible. Tell your NMA, they are giving government power over unionism due to the abuse of strike process and procedures.

4llerbuntu: ok, this is all about more money right?

fine.

but after paying these doctors more money, will the equipment they need to work also magically appear in the hospitals? will the hospitals expand, and multiply to help the congestion issues?


i think the answer to that is no, therefore they will get paid like double their current wages for doing the same things they have been doing, in the same useless work environments, with the same absence of meaningful equipment to justify their white coats and lofty title!!


i wonder why fashola simply did'nt offer to sack half of them and use their salaries to double the ones remaining. im sure this greedy arses would have taken that deal!

like how many professions in this country earn anything near what these docs earn now? i need examples.

last week they were comparing their wages to that of politicians! like bloody hell!!

you are a genius. Comparing theirs with POLITICIANS (THIEVES) SALARY. THEY MUST BE out of their mind.