it is nupe dat shud see themselves as yorubas! they are closer

Even the hausas who had written text in soghay empire, way before there was a place called bini - don't run their mouth like you guys.. Your history is overrated!!

Your kingdom didn't go beyond present day Edo, and probably part of Delta.. We ruled from Oyo to accra...

If any Nigerian tribe wants to get braggart - it should be the hausas, but you don't see them run their mouth..

PapaBrowne:

You are very funny. You are looking at historical facts from the perspective of today's motorways!! And who said the road to Dahomey in them days was thru Ijebuland! Eko is closer to Dahomey than Ijebu is. So How did they get to Eko??

Benin history, overrated or not, is the most outstanding compilation of historical events in all of Sub-Saharan Africa. While other tribes including the Yorubas were limited to Oral history which is usually replete with folklore, the Binis documented their history for centuries and all of that is still available for your perusal. A 1000 year history that replete with specific names, actions, locations, events and much more!! You can call it overrated in comparison to others that passed down fables and folklore as evidence of their history.

Nri history was also well documented so I dont know where you get that "most outstanding compilation of historical events in all of Sub-Saharan Africa". The truth is that ppl give Bini too much credit and that make their head swell including their Oba who opened his dirty mouth to dare speak of the Igbos!

PhysicsQED:

Look I'm not going to rehash this same argument with you again, but there are contemporary documents from centuries back and oral history and even some art that indicates very strongly that Benin at one time conquered Ijebu, but they were free of Benin's political hold by the mid 17th century. I gave you scholarly sources last time and you obviously looked at none of them. I'm not going to re-argue this since anyone who wants to can read about it from various non-Bini sources.

The same bini had to pay the Ijesha warrior (can't remember his name) not to invade ibini.. Believe whatever pseudo-scholarship you want to believe, but bini NEVEr ruled over Ijebu..

If you guys ruled over us, we should have some bini words, and links - but we don't have any.. Maybe, you guys are confusing the itsekiris (who're mostly of ijebu descent) with us..

shymmex:

Bini history is overrated, and will always overrated till you tell me why you guys buried your oba heads in ile ife...

Where did bini empire start and end?? Yoruba on the other hand extended to far away ghana...

Even Yoruba bronzes were called the lost arts of atlantis.. Bini can never be compared to Yoruba.. Your olokun worship is from yoruboid groups..

Just leave this topic, plz..

Bini Obas head use to be buried in Ile Ife because it was an agreement reached with Oranmiyan who was a son of a Bini emigrant Izoduwa (Oduduwa). Haba my friend! Bini art is known all over the world and was even the symbol used for the FESTAC festival! Even the coast of Nigeria is called bight of Benin. And who told you that Olokun worship originated from Yoruba land? Get your facts right.

Did any of you take a good look where Oyo Ile (government seat of the so-called Oyo Empire) originality situated before driven southward by Nupe and Fulani? It was 30 miles beyond north of Ilorin town. No wonder the Hausa called them Yoruba. On the note of Izuduwa and Oduduwa, the credibility of the story goes to Edo. The goofy stuff of Oduduwa falling from the sky is utter child’s play.

PapaBrowne:
Benin history, overrated or not, is the most outstanding compilation of historical events in all of Sub-Saharan Africa. While other tribes including the Yorubas were limited to Oral history which is usually replete with folklore,[/b]the Binis documented their history for centuries and all of that is still available for your perusal. A 1000 year history that replete with specific names, actions, locations, events and much more!! [b]You can call it overrated in comparison to others that passed down fables and folklore as evidence of their history.

Papabrowne, apart from this being quite offensive, condescending, and uncalled for, this is simply not true. I encourage you to read about Oyo, Mali, Nupe, Igala, the Sokoto Caliphate, Bornu, Kongo, Ashanti, Kwararafa, and Songhai when you have time in order to get a more realistic perspective.

shymmex: Even the hausas who had written text in soghay empire, way before there was a place called bini - don't run their mouth like you guys.. Your history is overrated!!

Your kingdom didn't go beyond present day Edo, and probably part of Delta.. We ruled from Oyo to accra...

If any Nigerian tribe wants to get braggart - it should be the hausas, but you don't see them run their mouth..

Believe me I still havent seen what makes Bini so special; They propagated a lie that their kingdom extended to Dahomey but that was a danm lie! Tell me what so great about the oudated Bini kingdom?

shymmex:

The same bini had to pay the Ijesha warrior (can't remember his name) not to invade ibini.. Believe whatever pseudo-scholarship you want to believe, but bini NEVEr ruled over Ijebu..

If you guys ruled over us, we should have some bini words, and links - but we don't have any.. Maybe, you guys are confusing the itsekiris (who're mostly of ijebu descent) with us..

Liar! The Itsekiris are from Bini who intermarried with the Ilajes and developed a language with Edo and Yoruba derivatives.

ikachi1:

Liar! The Itsekiris are from Bini who intermarried with the Ilajes and developed a language with Edo and Yoruba derivatives.

You are wrong! We are a mixture of Ijebu, Nupe, Igala etc! The monarchy is mainly Bini!

ikachi1:

Bini Obas head use to be buried in Ile Ife because it was an agreement reached with Oranmiyan who was a son of a Bini emigrant Izoduwa (Oduduwa). Haba my friend! Bini art is known all over the world and was even the symbol used for the FESTAC festival! Even the coast of Nigeria is called bight of Benin. And who told you that Olokun worship originated from Yoruba land? Get your facts right.

Why do they have to bury the head in Yoruba land, and not bini? You guys need to stop making up falsehoods... And olukun is Yoruba!! How can a landlocked bini kingdom worship okun (atlantic ocean) without riverine people?? Even physicsQED won't argue against that..

Bini was landlocked!! Olokun is a Yoruba god, period.

shymmex:

Why do they have to bury the head in Yoruba land, and not bini? You guys need to stop making up falsehoods... And olukun is Yoruba!! How can a landlocked bini kingdom worship okun (atlantic ocean) without riverine people?? Even physicsQED won't argue against that..

Bini was landlocked!! Olokun is a Yoruba god, period.

Calm down!!!

shymmex:

The same bini had to pay the Ijesha warrior (can't remember his name) not to invade ibini.. Believe whatever pseudo-scholarship you want to believe, but bini NEVEr ruled over Ijebu..

If you guys ruled over us, we should have some bini words, and links - but we don't have any.. Maybe, you guys are confusing the itsekiris (who're mostly of ijebu descent) with us..

That was Ogedengbe* (an Ekiti guy) I guess

just wondering what script or way of writing were these edo histories written in. We know the calabar and igbo had the nsbidi writing, and hausas arabic but i havent come across anything on what script, other than latin script( that we all use today), so can those saying unlike every other group that used oral/folklore to tell their history, edo people were the only one to write down their history.


P.s Just curious, not looking for trouble or any tribalistic rant, i dont care for it!

shymmex:
The same bini had to pay the Ijesha warrior (can't remember his name) not to invade ibini.. Believe whatever pseudo-scholarship you want to believe, but bini NEVEr ruled over Ijebu..
If you guys ruled over us, we should have some bini words, and links - but we don't have any.. Maybe, you guys are confusing the itsekiris (who're mostly of ijebu descent) with us..

At no point did Benin appease or pay off Ogedengbe. This is a modern fairy tale which has no backing. I find it funny when he's mentioned in respect to war with Benin because the flipside of the fairy tale is interpreting him as somebody who got close to Benin after overruning some places in Afemai that Benin had long lost any political hold of and then chickened out at the thought of advancing nearer to Bini territory. He was still a great soldier though. As I said earlier, if you actually read the sources I mentioned, you would stop all this Ijebu vs. Bini stuff because the conclusion to be reached would be somewhat obvious and you would not claim not to have any Bini words. I have no interest in making this thread about the conquest of this or that group so I won't bother to go into detail because my attitude toward precolonial African imperialism is a little ambivalent.

I am of the opinion that the Bini and Yorubas are twin empires who have mutual respect for each other. Whether one came from the other is IRRELEVANT because the Binis will not look down on the Yorubas and likewise! Binis and Yorubas are twins that can hardly be separated!

Odenigbo Aroli:

Believe me I still havent seen what makes Bini so special; They propagated a lie that their kingdom extended to Dahomey but that was a danm lie! Tell me what so great about the oudated Bini kingdom?

You argue like a child. There was a time the Roman empire extended through out the whole of Europe, Africa and even Asia minor. Today Italy is smaller than the Gauls. (Germans and some French) Latin use to be a language spoken by many. Today, it is no more. Used only in churches. Empires rise and fall. That does not destroy the fact that the empire existed and prosperred. I was witness to Mathew Kerekou's visit to Benin. They had just changed their country's name from Dahomey to Benin. He explained the reason why they did that. They trace their origin to Benin. Whether you like to hear that or not, that is the way it is. If you disagree with something, you must have a different idea with facts. Tell your facts please.

jason123:
Calm down!!!
That was Ogedengbe* (an Ekiti guy) I guess

Bro, did you see how papebrowne or whatever his name was, posted the most condescending thrash about Yoruba?

They need to get over themselves.. Bini people have short man syndrome, and their history is overrated, period..

shymmex:

Bro, did you see how papebrowne or whatever his name was, posted the most condescending thrash about Yoruba?

They need to get over themselves.. Bini people have short man syndrome, and their history is overrated, period..

Papabrowne is a PDP man. Lol, simple political fractures. Nothing more!

ikachi1:

You argue like a child. There was a time the Roman empire extended through out the whole of Europe, Africa and even Asia minor. Today Italy is smaller than the Gauls. (Germans and some French) Latin use to be a language spoken by many. Today, it is no more. Used only in churches. Empires rise and fall. That does not destroy the fact that the empire existed and prosperred. I was witness to Mathew Kerekou's visit to Benin. They had just changed their country's name from Dahomey to Benin. He explained the reason why they did that. They trace their origin to Benin. Whether you like to hear that or not, that is the way it is. If you disagree with something, you must have a different idea with facts. Tell your facts please.

When and how did the Bini empire get to Dahomey?! For educational purposes, did Bini EVER conquer the Dahomey Kingdom? I thought it was the Oyos that did the conquering of Dahomey?!

shymmex:

Why do they have to bury the head in Yoruba land, and not bini? You guys need to stop making up falsehoods... And olukun is Yoruba!! How can a landlocked bini kingdom worship okun (atlantic ocean) without riverine people?? Even physicsQED won't argue against that..

Bini was landlocked!! Olokun is a Yoruba god, period.

Ever heard of the port at Ughoton? I said get your facts right! Bini is not land locked! You fail to realize that the coast of west Africa is called the bight of Benin.

Is there a possibilty that the area or people known as bini were made up of different ethnic groups and not what is today known as Benin. Because it beats my imagination as to why a very small group who were possibly smaller in medieval times is credited to have had one of the largest empires or could all these stories together with that of Oramiyan, Eze Chima etc be folklore?

Dede1: Did any of you take a good look where Oyo Ile (government seat of the so-called Oyo Empire) originality situated before driven southward by Nupe and Fulani? It was 30 miles beyond north of Ilorin town. No wonder the Hausa called them Yoruba. On the note of Izuduwa and Oduduwa, the credibility of the story goes to Edo. The goofy stuff of Oduduwa falling from the sky is utter child’s play.

Where is your people's history??

shymmex:

Bro, did you see how papebrowne or whatever his name was, posted the most condescending thrash about Yoruba?

They need to get over themselves.. Bini people have short man syndrome, and their history is overrated, period..

Binis do not have any complex. My Bro is married to a lovely Bini woman. Trust me, they are cool people!! In fact, very cool!!!

I don't understand how non-Edo or Edo people who have obviously read very little about precolonial African states besides the brief stuff on the internet or in books that give only a broad overview of all of precolonial Africa without going into detail can make assessments of what the standing of Benin was relative to other kingdoms. There is information out there - acquire it and study it with an open mind.

ikachi1:

Ever heard of the port at Ughoton? I said get your facts right! Bini is not land locked! You fail to realize that the coast of west Africa is called the bight of Benin.

Bight of benin has nothing to do with bini empire.. And don't tell me republic du benin was named as such because of bini as well loooooool.. slowpoke!

Phone battery is dead, I'm out.

ikachi1:

You argue like a child. There was a time the Roman empire extended through out the whole of Europe, Africa and even Asia minor. Today Italy is smaller than the Gauls. (Germans and some French) Latin use to be a language spoken by many. Today, it is no more. Used only in churches. Empires rise and fall. That does not destroy the fact that the empire existed and prosperred. I was witness to Mathew Kerekou's visit to Benin. They had just changed their country's name from Dahomey to Benin. He explained the reason why they did that. They trace their origin to Benin. Whether you like to hear that or not, that is the way it is. If you disagree with something, you must have a different idea with facts. Tell your facts please.

Whats the population of Bini today,now go back to11century and tell me whats their likely population during their so called "golden age"! Now you why i maintained that Bini is overrrated! The only thing that made them popular was their arts and nothing more!

Odenigbo Aroli:

Whats the population of Bini today,now go back to11century and tell me whats their likely population during their so called "golden age"! Now you why i maintained that Bini is overrrated! The only thing that made them popular was their arts and nothing more!

What is the population of Iraq? The bible tells us the Arabs, Africans, the Isrealis and even Europeans are from Oraq. What is the population of Nri where the Ibos claim to be their first settlement? You argue like primary school kids.

The likely population of bini today with all the migrants is about a million or a little over now deduct the real population of the natives from this number and you probably get about three hundredthousand more or less. Now go back from 11century to about 17 century and guess what was likely their danm population and you can agree with me they have a very tiny population unless if they being helped by their Igbo neighbours their impact is very insignificant. The only thing that made Bini popular was their arts and orginazational abilities. Who did they fight and defeated and with how many men We shouldnt use false means to promote our influence.

Beaf vs alj harem the saga continues! Take it easy guys.

shymmex:

Bini history is overrated, and will always overrated till you tell me why you guys buried your oba heads in ile ife...

Where did bini empire start and end?? Yoruba on the other hand extended to far away ghana...

Even Yoruba bronzes were called the lost arts of atlantis.. Bini can never be compared to Yoruba.. Your olokun worship is from yoruboid groups..

Just leave this topic, plz..

shymmex: Even the hausas who had written text in soghay empire, way before there was a place called bini - don't run their mouth like you guys.. Your history is overrated!!

Your kingdom didn't go beyond present day Edo, and probably part of Delta.. We ruled from Oyo to accra...

If any Nigerian tribe wants to get braggart - it should be the hausas, but you don't see them run their mouth..

You suffer from the GREATEST form of inferiority complex on the damn site!
You cannot enagage in any conversation without insulting and disrespecting people. Who are you to call a people's history overrated? Have you no shame? Forget about me being Jamaican which I know you will TRY to use against me, just be real for once! How dare you! You call Nigeria "a cesspit" because you live in the UK and then want to turn around and pretend to be "big papa Yoruba". Quit this sh.t!!

Just answer yes or no and stop with the insults! It's classless.
Not everyone on the site is Nigerian. Some of us have interest in your nation's history. The last thing you need to do is embarrass yourself with this tribalism crap.

alj harem: ^^^^^^^^^^

So what makes you think Oduduwa is not a beliv-ism as well ?

When you talk of Yorubaland, there were 2 phases of this " Yorubaland"

The first empire of which Bini was part of and the second which they were not, this suggest the confusion in history.

The second phase of Yoruba empire only included a very small part of lagos which was there only access to sea aka the colonial people through the Ijebus. The last time I checked Egun, Awori, the whole of Ekiti, Ondo and eastern Ogun was NOT part of the Oyo empire.

During the time of Izoduwa, Oduduwa etc, Bini were part and parcel of this dynasty thus the word (Oba) as the title. If Edo was not part of it the word Oba would not exist in Edo leadership. It would probably be call N'Ogiso or such.

Today as your rightly mention, the oba of eko has has rituals with is linked to Bini (I see it as yoruba as well). This tradition my grand father went through as well so with is the big deal ?

The Oba's head when dead is buried in Ile Ife. These are two empires or Kingdoms (which ever one you call it) which are intertwine with each other.

I am not saying you should call yourself Yoruba, far from it

I am saying you should not dispute the fact that Yorubas and Edos are very much related in fact much more related than Hausa and Fulanis or french and english. The only thing that separated us was Nnamdi's political motive using the Urhobos to join NCNC to separate the mid-west from the west. Did you see yorubas go to war cause of that ? No because we believe blood is thicker than water.

As for the language, each kingdom had different languages which we call dialect now. Awori, Ijebu, ekiti etc are all of different dialect and Bini was seen and still seen to be of different dialect till today.

So basically you are saying you guys are like "cousins" so the speak?
Interesting.

The bight of Benin is indeed named directly after the Benin kingdom while the modern country of Dahomey was named after the bight.I do not know exactly how this association of Benin with precolonial Dahomey started but I suspect it has to with a) the fact that Benin's political influence did extend basically to the western border of Nigeria and possibly beyond it - and a French captain (Landolphe) stated that it extended even to Whydah, a rival kingdom to Dahomey, at one point (after Oyo conquered Dahomey which had earlier conquered Whydah) and b) the Edo name Isidahomwen, which was corrupted and became Isidahomen, Sidahome, etc. "Isi" refers to a foreign land so it was probably assumed that the name indicated Edo people that were previously in the foreign land of Dahomey. My own reading has led me to accept the more plausible claim that Isidahomwen was the name of the grandson of a certain Esan ruler, the Ojirrua of Irrua, as I've seen stated in a book by a Bini writer with a deep knowledge of the history and culture of the Edo. The proper association of Dahomey is with Oyo, which invaded and conquered it.

mimifonwon: just wondering what script or way of writing were these edo histories written in. We know the calabar and igbo had the nsbidi writing, and hausas arabic but i havent come across anything on what script, other than latin script( that we all use today), so can those saying unlike every other group that used oral/folklore to tell their history, edo people were the only one to write down their history.


P.s Just curious, not looking for trouble or any tribalistic rant, i dont care for it!

They dont have any form of writing and not even name of days: The only groups that had form of writings were Igbos(nsibidi) and hausa(songhay).

Odenigbo Aroli, at no point was it ever claimed that Benin was the most populous or heavily populated West African kingdom or even claimed that it was more populous than some of its neighbors. In fact, a contemporary 17th century writer specifically noted that despite its widespread influence and power it was not particularly populous compared to some other states. By the way, you are not taking into account the effects of civil war, expansionist war and very probable precolonial emigration to new lands/absorption into other ethnic populations in your analysis.

By the way, the Songhai, who had an empire significantly larger than Benin's, were 'only' 4 and a half million as of 2010 (although I have read where they are credited with a population of 3 million or even less but i'll just go with an upper bound since it doesn't change my point). Try and think about things more rationally before jumping to conclusions.