HER EXCELLENCEY, THE MODERATOR, I wonder why my posts were removed! I smell cowardice. . . just because I said(and I repeat) that you have no right to change the word IMOLE( ) to the great religion! I know you'll remove this(or ban me), no worries.

candy:

HER EXCELLENCEY, THE MODERATOR, I wonder why my posts were removed! I smell cowardice. . . just because I said(and I repeat) that you have no right to change the word IMOLE( omo to ni iya oun o ni sun, oun naa o ni foju ba orun) to the great religion! I know you'll remove this(or ban me), no worries.

Just stick to the Topic lol

samba123:

Just stick to the Topic lol

What topic when Seun's employee is yanking off people's posts. murkiness be careful o. Like i said ealier, yanking off people's posts wont add to your pay o. Now restore my post on Prophet MO's plagiarist's expertise

^{*do i really need to ansa dis *}

ofcourse its isaac ,did u not read ur bible

samba123:

Just stick to the Topic lol

thanks

hmm

@Igbo_Lady: You are taking this stage names too far! Nwandolina? Woman its too much. If you dont stop, I will take your case to the council of the elders, where you have to bring Kolanuts, and all that will be needed to be brought. Or should I just tell Zainab to sue you in Owerri High Court?

Stop partial plagiarising of names. Its really unbecoming. Na today! lol.

@post

DEAD. NO query at al. Mi bible tell me its Isaac so wot u on about?

Genesis 22: 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.

If god is omniscient, how come he did not know that Abraham fearest him and needed to put him and Isaac through this reprehensible ordeal just to find that out?

huxley:

Genesis 22: 12 And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only [son] from me.

If god is omniscient, how come he did not know that Abraham fearest him and needed to put him and Isaac through this reprehensible ordeal just to find that out?

So that we can find examples of people who were tested and passed it and gain strength to face our own situations too. this boy

cgift:

So that we can find examples of people who were tested and passed it and gain strength to face our own situations too. this boy

But god said "for now I know that thou fearest God". Did god not know before Abraham attempted to complied with the request?


I submit that that phrase indicates that he did not know. If he did not know, can he still be god?

But the understanding is different in Is/l/am. God is all knowing. And God commands total submission to Him. In the sacrifice commandment on Ibrahim about his son Ismail, God knew the end before it began. But the test was to kill all worldly attachment that may be represented by this only son, Ismail to Ibrahim, a man in his old age.

By obedience to God in the attempted sacrifice, Ibrahim saw for himself the power of his Lord to ransome with goodness his obedience. He did not know that before, since he did not know the future. His son was preserved alive and the birth of Isiaq was revealed to him, including the birth of a grand child Yaqub, coming from Isaiq.

Ibrahim faith in God the Almighty must have increased manifolds, without a measure of it.

@Huxley and company: Lesson from the Great Trial of Sacrifice:

One of the things that the Hujjaj (the pilgrims to the house of God for Hajj) do on the 10th of Dhul Hijjah, and so do many Mu/sli/ms all over the world is to:

Slaughter a lamb, or a sheep, or a goat or a camel in remembrance of this great sacrifice of Prophet Ibrahim (AS).

This act is not mere a ritual but it has a meaning and a significance. Al/lah (SWT) has not commanded us to sacrifice animals because He (SWT) is bloodthirsty or meat hungry.

In Suratul Hajj, verses 36 and 37, He (SWT) has made it clear:

"Thus we have disposed them (animals) for your benefit so that you may give thanks." (22:36)

Then He (SWT) adds:

"It is not their flesh or their blood that reaches All/a/h. Rather it is your piety that reaches Him. Thus has He disposed them for your benefit so that you may magnify Al/la/h for His guiding you. And give good news to the virtuous." (22:37)

So what is the significance of offering sacrifice of animals on this day of Eid Al-Adha?

The answer to this question is simple.

A/lla/h (SWT) wants to train us to follow the path of Prophet Ibrahim (AS) who was willing to offer A/ll/ah (SWT) his dearest possession in form of his son Prophet Ismail (AS).

Al/l/ah (SWT) did not want Prophet Ismail (AS) to be sacrificed, but A/ll/a/h (SWT) wanted Prophet Ibrahim (AS) to show his willingness to (do away with worldly things and therefore acquire a greater relationship which is rewarding with his Lord) sacrifice Prophet Ismail (AS), which he (AS) did bravely.

Dr. Ali Shari'ati in his book, 'Philosophy of Hajj' writes and I quote:

"This is a story of man's perfection and his freedom from selfishness and animalistic desires. It is man's ascension to a higher spirit and loves, to a strong will that frees him from any thing that may hinder his responsibility as a conscious man."

In other words, A/l/la/h (SWT) is telling us:

On this day of Eid Al-Adha, you should select your Ismail and bring him to Mina! Who is your Ismail? Anything that is causing an obstruction for you to reach your Lord and fulfill your duties towards Him. Your Ismail could be:

Your wealth
Your job
Your rank
Your power
Your lust
Your greed
Your spouse
Your children

It could be anything and make sure that it is as dear to you as Prophet Ismail (AS) was to Prophet Ibrahim (AS).

As you are sacrificing an animal on this day, bear in mind that you are infact, sacrificing that dearest thing in your life and telling A/l/l/ah (SWT):

"O My Lord! Henceforth, this thing, which has been dearest to me in life, will not hinder me from reaching You and acquiring Your pleasure."

Imam Zainul Abideen (AS), talking about the significance of each and every ritual that is performed during Hajj, asked Shibli:

"As you slaughtered your sacrificial animal (during Hajj), did you intend to cut off the throat of greed (that is hidden in you) by clinging to the reality of Taqwa and to follow the exemplary tradition of Prophet Ibrahim (AS) who intended to slaughter his dear son Prophet Ismail (so as to discharge the command of Al/la/h)?"

Shibli said, "No!"

"In that case" said the Imam Zainul Abideen (AS) "You have not sacrificed your animal."

Similarly, whilst giving instructions to the Hujjaj (the pilgrims to the house of God for Hajj) Imam Jafar Sadiq (AS) said to them: "Cut the throat of carnal desires and greed by offering animal sacrifice."

We pray to A/l/la/h (SWT) on this great day of Eid Al-Adha to grant us with tawfeeq to follow in the path of Prophet Ibrahim (AS) and forgive all our past and future sins.

Source: http://www.almahdi.org.uk

ISAAC
Abraham was able to take ISAAC for sacrifice because he did not tell Sarah and Isaac about it. he told them they were going to offer a sacrifice to God and that God will provide the animal for sacrifice.
I have grounds to believe that it was ISAAC to be sacrificed because Isaac was the promised child borne to him in old age and with the promised child already born it will not have been hard for Abraham to sacrifice ishmeal.(GOD WANTED TO TEST ABRAHAM'S OBEDIENCE)
If Abraham did not find it hard to send ishmeal away on SARAH'S WISH why would he find it hard to kill him on GOD'S COMMAND?Huh??

I think where the muslim got it wrong was in the language that God used calling the boy Abraham's only son.

Genesis 22:2
And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
Since Ishmael was the first, It was assumed God was refering to him as his only son. Probably before Isaac was born. But the truth of the matter was that God was refering to Isaac because Ishmael was not Gods plan, he was born of flesh, spiritually he does not exist as far as Abrahamic covenant is concerned, It was Isaac that was born of faith and the word of God. That is why God used the word "thy only son"

WHY ARE WE ALL SO MUCH WORRIED ABOUT THE QUESTION "Who Did Abraham Nearly Sacrifice: Ishmael Or Isaac?"

THE ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION IS READ THE SCRIPTURE "GALATIANS 4 : 21-31" AND INCREASE YOUR KNOWLEDGE

BECAUSE "THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE SECRET OF THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS GIVEN TO YOU BUT NOT TO THEM" MATTHEW 13:11

GALATIANS 4 : 21-31

21 Tell me, you who want to be under the law, are you not aware of what the law says? 22 For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by the slave woman and the other by the free woman. 23 His son by the slave woman was born according to the flesh, but his son by the free woman was born as the result of a divine promise.

24 These things are being taken figuratively: The women represent two covenants. One covenant is from Mount Sinai and bears children who are to be slaves: This is Hagar. 25 Now Hagar stands for Mount Sinai in Arabia and corresponds to the present city of Jerusalem, because she is in slavery with her children. 26 But the Jerusalem that is above is free, and she is our mother. 27 For it is written:

“Be glad, barren woman,
you who never bore a child;
shout for joy and cry aloud,
you who were never in labor;
because more are the children of the desolate woman
than of her who has a husband.”[a]

28 Now you, brothers and sisters, like Isaac, are children of promise. 29 At that time the son born according to the flesh persecuted the son born by the power of the Spirit. It is the same now. 30 But what does Scripture say? “Get rid of the slave woman and her son, for the slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with the free woman’s son.”[b] 31 Therefore, brothers and sisters, we are not children of the slave woman, but of the free woman.

WE ARE ALL GODS CHILDREN AND WE HAVE TO INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD, SO IF WE FOLLOW THE SLAVE WOMAN AND HER SON WE WILL NEVER INHERIT THE KINGDOM OF GOD INSTEAD WE HAVE TO BE THE CHILDREN OF THE FREE WOMAN TO INHERIT GODS KINGDOM.
PLEASE INCREASE YOUR KNOWLEDGE IN THE SCRIPTURE GALATIANS 4:30-31

Only SATAN could have come up with the logic that Ishmael was the one sacrificed.

bible proves that jesus was doing
satanic action
how can we trust such a book
*bible says:thy only son isaac
*isaac is never the “only son“
*ismail is the only son
*bible agreed ismail as son
*chronological order (order of history)of bible is wrong

t

imhotep:

Anybody can claim that God/angels spoke to him/her. Its the easy way out. Especially when it comes 570 years after the major events. How suspicious.

Point. of correction Mohammad was born 570 AD became a prophet around. 610 AD. The angel that revealed to him about 700 years later to rewrite scriptures must non other than. the devil.

olabowale: @Huxley and company: Lesson from the Great Trial of Sacrifice:

One of the things that the Hujjaj (the pilgrims to the house of God for Hajj) do on the 10th of Dhul Hijjah, and so do many Mu/sli/ms all over the world is to:

Slaughter a lamb, or a sheep, or a goat or a camel in remembrance of this great sacrifice of Prophet Ibrahim (AS).

This act is not mere a ritual but it has a meaning and a significance. Al/lah (SWT) has not commanded us to sacrifice animals because He (SWT) is bloodthirsty or meat hungry.

In Suratul Hajj, verses 36 and 37, He (SWT) has made it clear:

"Thus we have disposed them (animals) for your benefit so that you may give thanks." (22:36)

Then He (SWT) adds:

"It is not their flesh or their blood that reaches All/a/h. Rather it is your piety that reaches Him. Thus has He disposed them for your benefit so that you may magnify Al/la/h for His guiding you. And give good news to the virtuous." (22:37)

So what is the significance of offering sacrifice of animals on this day of Eid Al-Adha?

The answer to this question is simple.

A/lla/h (SWT) wants to train us to follow the path of Prophet Ibrahim (AS) who was willing to offer A/ll/ah (SWT) his dearest possession in form of his son Prophet Ismail (AS).

Al/l/ah (SWT) did not want Prophet Ismail (AS) to be sacrificed, but A/ll/a/h (SWT) wanted Prophet Ibrahim (AS) to show his willingness to (do away with worldly things and therefore acquire a greater relationship which is rewarding with his Lord) sacrifice Prophet Ismail (AS), which he (AS) did bravely.

Dr. Ali Shari'ati in his book, 'Philosophy of Hajj' writes and I quote:

"This is a story of man's perfection and his freedom from selfishness and animalistic desires. It is man's ascension to a higher spirit and loves, to a strong will that frees him from any thing that may hinder his responsibility as a conscious man."

In other words, A/l/la/h (SWT) is telling us:

On this day of Eid Al-Adha, you should select your Ismail and bring him to Mina! Who is your Ismail? Anything that is causing an obstruction for you to reach your Lord and fulfill your duties towards Him. Your Ismail could be:

Your wealth
Your job
Your rank
Your power
Your lust
Your greed
Your spouse
Your children

It could be anything and make sure that it is as dear to you as Prophet Ismail (AS) was to Prophet Ibrahim (AS).

As you are sacrificing an animal on this day, bear in mind that you are infact, sacrificing that dearest thing in your life and telling A/l/l/ah (SWT):

"O My Lord! Henceforth, this thing, which has been dearest to me in life, will not hinder me from reaching You and acquiring Your pleasure."

Imam Zainul Abideen (AS), talking about the significance of each and every ritual that is performed during Hajj, asked Shibli:

"As you slaughtered your sacrificial animal (during Hajj), did you intend to cut off the throat of greed (that is hidden in you) by clinging to the reality of Taqwa and to follow the exemplary tradition of Prophet Ibrahim (AS) who intended to slaughter his dear son Prophet Ismail (so as to discharge the command of Al/la/h)?"

Shibli said, "No!"

"In that case" said the Imam Zainul Abideen (AS) "You have not sacrificed your animal."

Similarly, whilst giving instructions to the Hujjaj (the pilgrims to the house of God for Hajj) Imam Jafar Sadiq (AS) said to them: "Cut the throat of carnal desires and greed by offering animal sacrifice."

We pray to A/l/la/h (SWT) on this great day of Eid Al-Adha to grant us with tawfeeq to follow in the path of Prophet Ibrahim (AS) and forgive all our past and future sins.

Source: http://www.almahdi.org.uk

'
Nonsense! what is the meaning of islam? submission? what do you submit? Many of the ismail party have submitted their reasoning. faculty. Mo is simply a successful fraud. x

Amazing! this topic goes to the root and foundation that islam was birthed on the premises of falsehood, and am surprised our osamas are silently inactive here with a few given responses like they had breakfast from LAWMA vehicle. I want You osamas to come out here and debunk the facts as stated by the Christians here in reference to the topic stating historical facts viz a viz the promise or covenant in respect of the chronological lineages and descendants of both sons as stated by both books, surely one of the books must be a preconceived scam. There can only be one truth not two.

M. Why did Ismail (Ishmael) and his mother Hajar (Hagar) leave Sarah?
C. After Isaac was weaned, his mother Sarah saw Ishmael mocking him. After that, she didn't want Ishmael to be heir with her son Isaac: Genesis 21:8-10: "And the child grew, and was weaned, and Abraham made a great feast the same day that Isaac was weaned. And Sarah saw the son of Hagar the Egyptian, which she had born unto Abraham mocking. Wherefore she said unto Abraham: 'Cast out this bondwoman and her son, for the son of this bondwoman shall not be heir with my son, even with Isaac."'
M. Isaac was about two years old when he was weaned. Ishmael was then sixteen years is the profile of a baby, not of a teenager. So Ishmael and his mother Hagar left Sarah long before Isaac was born. According to the Islamic version, Abraham took Ishmael and Hagar and made a new settlement in Makkah, called Paran in the Bible (Genesis 21:21), because of a divine instruction given to Abraham as a part of God's plan. Hagar ran seven times between two hills, Safa and Marwa, looking for water. This is the origin of one of the rituals that is performed during the pilgrimage to Makkah. The well of water mentioned in Genesis 21:19 is still present and is known as called Zemzem. Both Abraham and Ishmael later built the Ka'bah in Makkah. The spot where Abraham used to perform prayers near the Ka'bah is still present and is known as the Maqam Ibrahim, i.e., the Station of Abraham. During the pilgrimage, pilgrims in Makkah and Muslims all over the world commemorate the offering of Abraham and Ishmael by slaughtering cattle.
C. But the Bible mentions that Isaac was to be sacrificed.
M. The Islamic version states that the covenant between God, Abraham, and his only son Ishmael was made and sealed when Ishmael was supposed to be sacrificed. On the very same day, Abraham, Ishmael, and all the men of Abraham's household were circumcised. At that time, Isaac had not even born: Genesis 17:24-27: "And Abraham was ninety years old and nine when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. And Ishmael his son was thirteen years old, when he was circumcised in the flesh of his foreskin. In the selfsame day was Abraham circumcised, and Ishmael his son. And all the men of his house, born in the house, and bought with money of the stranger, were circumcised with him."
A year later, Isaac was born and circumcised when he was eight days old: Genesis 21:4-5: "And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him. And Abraham was an hundred years old, when his son Isaac was born unto him." So when the covenant was made and sealed (circumcision and sacrifice) Abraham was ninety-nine and Ishmael was thirteen. Isaac was born a year later, when Abraham was one hundred years old.
As you know, Kedar is a descendent of Ishmael (Genesis 25:13), and Ishmael is the base for the Family Tree of Prophet Muhammad through Kedar. The followers of Ishmael, Prophet Muhammad and all Muslims, remain faithful until today to this covenant of circumcision. In their five daily prayers, Muslims include the praise of Abraham and his followers with the praise of Muhammad and his followers.
C. But in Genesis 22 it is mentioned that Isaac was to be sacrificed.
M. I know, but you will see the contradiction there. It is mentioned "shine only son Isaac." Shouldn't it be "shine only son Ishmael," when Ishmael was thirteen years old and Isaac had not even been born? When Isaac was born, Abraham had two sons. Because of chauvinism, the name of Ishmael was changed to Isaac in all of Genesis 22. But God has preserved the word "only" to show us what it should have been.
The words "I will multiply thy seed" in Genesis 22:17 was applied earlier to Ishmael in Genesis 16:10. Was not the whole of Genesis 22 applicable to Ishmael then? "I will make him a great nation" has been repeated twice for Ishmael in Genesis 17:20 and Genesis 16:10: "And the angel of the Lord said unto her [Hager]: 'I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude."'
Genesis 17:20: "And as for Ishmael, I have heard thee. Behold, I have blessed him, and will make him fruitful, and will multiply him exceedingly. Twelve princes shall he beget, and I will make him a great nation."
Genesis 21:13: "And also of the son of the bondwoman will I make a nation, because he is thy seed."
Genesis 21:18: "Arise, lift up the lad [Ishmael], and hold him in shine hand, for I will make him a great nation."
Deuteronomy 21:15-17: "If a man have two wives, one beloved and another hated, and they have born him children, both the beloved and the hated; and if the firstborn son be hers that was hated: Then it shall be, when he maketh his sons to inherit that which he hash, that he may not make the son of the beloved firstborn before the son of the hated, which is indeed the firstborn: But he shall acknowledge the son of the hated for the firstborn, by giving him a double portion of all that he hash: for he is the beginning of the strength; the right of the firstborn is his." Islam does not deny God's blessings on Isaac and his descendants, but the son of promise is Ishmael, from whom arose Muhammad as the seal of the prophets.
C. Can you prove that Jews changed the name of Ishmael to Isaac because of chauvinism?
M. The Encyclopedia Judaic says:
It is related that a renowned traditionalist of Jewish origin, from the Qurayza tribe, and another Jewish scholar, who converted to Islam, told that Caliph Omar Ibn 'Abd al-Aziz (717-20) that the Jews were well informed that Ismail was the one who was bound, but that they concealed this out of jealousy. The Muslim legend also adds details of Hajar, the mother of Ismail. After Abraham drove her and her son out, she wandered between the hills of al-Safa and al-Marwa (in the vicinity of Mecca) in search for water. At that time the waters of the spring Zemzem began to flow. Her acts became the basis for the hallowed custom of Muslims during the Hajj.
Encyclopedia Judaic Volume 9, Encyclopedia Judaic Jerusalem, pp. 82 (Under 'Ishmael').
The testimony of the former Jew as mentioned hadith literature as quoted in the Encyclopedia Judaic reads:
Another proof of our speech [i.e., that sacrificed was Ishmael (P)] is reported by Ibn Ishaaq: "Muhammad Ibn Ka'b narrated that 'Umar Ibn 'Abd al-'Aziz sent for a man who had been a Jew then converted to Islam and showed signs of true Islam. [Before his conversion], he was one of their scholars [i.e., he was a Jewish scholar] So he [i.e., 'Umar] asked him: which son did Abraham sacrifice? He replied: 'It is Ishmael. By God, O Commander of the Believers, the Jews know that but they envy you - the Arabs.'
 
C. But Ishmael was an illegitimate son.
M. That is what you say, but not what the Bible states. How could such a great prophet as Abraham have an illegal wife and a son out of wedlock!
Genesis 16:3: "... and [Sarah] gave her [Hager] to her husband Abram to be his wife." If the marriage was legal, how could their offspring be illegal? Is a marriage between two foreigners, a Chaldean and an Egyptian, not more legal than a marriage between a men with a daughter of his father? Whether it was a lie of Abraham or not, it is stated in Genesis 20:12: "And yet indeed she [Sarah] is my sister, she is the daughter of my father, but not the daughter of my mother; and she became my wife."
The name Ishmael was also chosen by Allah Himself: Genesis 16:11: "And the Angel of the Lord said unto her [Hager]: 'Behold, thou art with child, and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael, because the Lord hath heard thy affliction."' Ishmael means "God hears." Where in the Bible is it written that Ishmael was an illegitimate son?
C. Nowhere.
M. Long before both Ishmael and Isaac were born, Allah made a covenant with Abraham:
Genesis 15:18: "... saying Unto thy seed have I given this land, from the river of Egypt unto the great river, the Euphrates." Doesn't the greater part of Arabia lie between the Nile and the Euphrates, where all the descendants of Ishmael settled at a later date?
Do you see also the difference that Abraham was called "a stranger" in Canaan but not in the land between the Nile and the Euphrates? As a Chaldean, he was more Arab than Jew.
That covenant was made with Abraham and Ishmael:
Genesis 17:10 This [is] my covenant, which ye shall keep, between me and you and thy seed after thee; Every man child among you shall be circumcised.
Genesis 17:13 He that is born in thy house, and he that is bought with thy money, must needs be circumcised: and my covenant shall be in your flesh for an everlasting covenant.

Isaac.

abbgstar:
■ An Historical Query! Islam asserts that Abraham nearly sacrificed Ishmael, while Christianity says it was Isaac that was taken to the mountain. Which historical account should we take, or what could be wrong with the seemingly conflicting claims.

The God of Israel is not the same deity as the Allah of the Muslims.