Do you honestly think any person will take with a pinch of salt what is posted on the Africom website.

It is like posting from an Al-Qaeda website on a terrorism debate.

What else will they say?

Anybody who actually believes that the USA wants to build their Command in Nigeria is just a clown. This is all just misdirection. It's like telling me that the USA will build a command in China.

The real African power that the USA may need to tackle in West Africa and indeed the whole of Africa is actually Nigeria. So the plan actually will be to build the command in a small country close to Nigeria. A country which preferably has Crude Oil too.

That country is Equatorial Guinea. So all this their abracadabra is just to see whether an AFRICAN COMMAND will be permitted at all anywhere on African soil.

[b]Yes no one can deny that the US runs things in the world we live in today . But as we know, empires have come and gone. Infact, America's reign is probably one of the shortest.

Having said that, i think the US is making a desperate move to grab the world's last cache of largely untapped mineral deposits and oil reserves. Desperate not because they are pushing to control/or have a large share of the trade with Africa which a lot of other countries are doing (trying to out-do each other) but desperate in the sense they are pulling the military card. While other countries are handing out juicy deals and counter deals, the US is offering the African command project which smacks of conspiracy and sinister plots. We should not be quick to forget the issues of the Blackwater killings in Iraq, US military brutalities in Iraq and Afganistan.

The US should beat the economic offers being dangled by the Asians to Africans and stop trying to police the world. The Persians, the Greeks, the Romans,  and even quite recently the British tried to keep their empires alive by policing the globe with military outposts but they all failed.

Economic relevance is the only way the US can retain their status-quo. [/b]

America already has Commands in Africa. They just want to add one in west Africa, it seems and Nigeria was NEVER actually on the list of countries they want to build in. The countries that currently have american bases in them have so far not complained about those bases being there. Infact there has been a good relationship between the government and the people. I happen to have a friend who works around Uganda's base and they do not have america trying to run things for them. America already used temporarily Egypt as a base for a time and even America did not take em over. But people in Nigeria are all up in arms cause somehow America WILL do to them worse than their own OVERLORDS have done to them in decades and they silently watched with no action Even though Nigeria is not even on the list of potential sites?? This does not compute.  KAI!!!!LMAO!!!

PR offensive ^^

@kobojunkie
u have said previously that its a matter of consent and that nigeria can say yes or no. so we have said NO whats the problem?

angel101:

@kobojunkie
u have said previously that its a matter of consent and that nigeria can say yes or no. so we have said NO whats the problem?

I did not state that there is any problem with saying Yes or No. But I see a whole issue with the way we continually run paranoid everytime some issues comes up ,claiming it is all about our PRECIOUS oil, which we have practically nothing but a country in turmoil, to show for.

This reminds me of our neighbour when I was in younger. The woman was ok asking us for food and asking for help whenever she needed it but the minute we came to her for help of any sort, instead of a simple No, which would suffice, she would run paranoid telling people that we were trying to steal from her life and make her miserable. Completely unrelated issues she brings up but right after this, the same woman would happily accept food or help of any kind we have to offer her should she have need of it.

That to me seems to be where this mentality that it is all about Africa's oil, every time something happens. We already have american bases in Africa, American soldiers travel every other month to Nigeria to train our own people for us to use tools and weapons. They have been doing this since the 80's or even longer. American goods come into that country 24/7 in the bulk. Nigerians suck on the American mentality as if it is the way they have to. But America asks to set up a base in Africa and BOOM!!!, AMERICA IS TRYING TO STEAL OUR OIL? come on!!!!

If you read my posts. I am asking questions about how these who claim it is about these and not the other can substantiate their claims on ACTUAL FACTUAL information and not the same old PARANOID DELUSIONS that have lead us to where we are today. I remember right before Abacha came in to power, many people already had america labeled as the EVIL TO NIGERIA and then we allowed Abacha take seat under that FLAG. I need to remind us of what hell that man put most of the country through. Why do we need to blame OTHERS OR DEMAND STRANGERS do our job for us


How can it be about taking over our oil when this same Yar Adua called washington just two months ago to renew lobbying interests in Nigeria, it's oil and goods? Why didn't America take over Japan Or even Ugandan resources. I mean it has been there for over a decade now?? Why is it that Nigerians cry wolf when the wolves that plague us as RIGHT THERE IN THE HOUSE with us

we already have enough home grown wolves to deal with, we dont want more wolves added to it. we have the right to say no, we chose to say no, and that settles it. wetin be all this self.

to be honest, all i wanted to know was what we stood to gain from this as compared to what the imperialists stood to gain. and at what cost to us. deboski tried to answer that, the africom report somebody posted also tried to give an insight into what we may gain. but all in all it was not convincing at all. luckily (at least by my assessment) the nig govt refused. i think that settles it. there should be no acrimony over this. if they really need to, they may try to persuade us more, but history has taught the world to be wary of american foreign policy and the nig govt is simply being cautious which is the right thing to do.

anybody trying to tie this to all our problems, backwardness, even abacha administration is not being fair at all. this is a very simple matter . . . . . . . . can we build at ur turf? . . . no, i'm sorry . . . , ok . . . . .period no war no worries why the brouhaha over this?

To Angel101, in answer to your question

Kobojunkie:


I did not state that there is any problem with saying Yes or No. But I see a whole issue with the way we continually run paranoid everytime some issues comes up ,claiming it is all about our PRECIOUS oil, which we have practically nothing but a country in turmoil, to show for.

This reminds me of our neighbour when I was in younger. The woman was ok asking us for food and asking for help whenever she needed it but the minute we came to her for help of any sort, instead of a simple No, which would suffice, she would run paranoid telling people that we were trying to steal from her life and make her miserable. Completely unrelated issues she brings up but right after this, the same woman would happily accept food or help of any kind we have to offer her should she have need of it.

That to me seems to be where this mentality that it is all about Africa's oil, every time something happens. We already have american bases in Africa, American soldiers travel every other month to Nigeria to train our own people for us to use tools and weapons. They have been doing this since the 80's or even longer. American goods come into that country 24/7 in the bulk. Nigerians suck on the American mentality as if it is the way they have to. But America asks to set up a base in Africa and BOOM!!!, AMERICA IS TRYING TO STEAL OUR OIL? come on!!!!

If you read my posts. I am asking questions about how these who claim it is about these and not the other can substantiate their claims on ACTUAL FACTUAL information and not the same old PARANOID DELUSIONS that have lead us to where we are today. I remember right before Abacha came in to power, many people already had america labeled as the EVIL TO NIGERIA and then we allowed Abacha take seat under that FLAG. I need to remind us of what hell that man put most of the country through. Why do we need to blame OTHERS OR DEMAND STRANGERS do our job for us


How can it be about taking over our oil when this same Yar Adua called washington just two months ago to renew lobbying interests in Nigeria, it's oil and goods? Why didn't America take over Japan Or even Ugandan resources. I mean it has been there for over a decade now?? Why is it that Nigerians cry wolf when the wolves that plague us as RIGHT THERE IN THE HOUSE with us

"The US will continue to have a vital interest in ensuring access
to foreign oil supplies… We must continue to be mindful of the
need for regional stability and security in key producing areas to
ensure our access to, and the free flow of, these resources."

"The decision on whether and w[b]hen to use force is therefore
dictated first and foremost by our national interests.[/b] In those
specific areas where our vital or survival interests are at stake,
our use of force will be decisive and, if necessary, unilateral."

they wont think twice before blowing your house in the creeks they shall be decisive in the actions
remember they don't give two pence about the UN
they know most Africa country are looking to china and other Asian countries

Sirleaf wants them in her country, i think she's having a meeting with the regional commanders
they'll probably smile and unilaterally say no behind her back

Oh so kobojunkie, so you don't know that the USA has long taken over Japan and is basically still running it?

Well, if the USA wants to set up their AFRICOM, then we will need to first set up our own AMERICOM in Washington DC first. Then we'll need to lobby China to deploy they own AMERICOM in Mexico too.

A group of USA warships carrying as many as 8,000 military personnell has been blocked from docking in China's Hong Kong harbour.

The USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier, with one nuclear fast attack submarine and 3 other military ships arrived around the China's deep water without previous notice and expected to be let to anchor with their Weapons of Mass Destruction just because it was Thanksgiving day.


If the Chinese would not make such a mistake, I wonder why we should. Or is there anyone in this forum who believes that the USA would let 5 Chinese warships with 8000 military officers and a submarine laden with nuclear weapons to dock at Hawaii just because it was Chinese New Year?

Or maybe we're assuming that the USA will allow 8000 Nigerian soldiers to show up unexpectedly at Florida Bay with Nuclear Weapons just because it's Egungu Festival.

Africa, it's about time you people start growing new brains and stop thinking like black people. Any continent that cannot allow us build a military command of equivalent size on their land cannot build one on our motherland.

denex:

A group of USA warships carrying as many as 8,000 military personnell has been blocked from docking in China's Hong Kong harbour.

The USS Kitty Hawk aircraft carrier, with one nuclear fast attack submarine and 3 other military ships arrived around the China's deep water without previous notice and expected to be let to anchor with their Weapons of Mass Destruction just because it was Thanksgiving day.


If the Chinese would not make such a mistake, I wonder why we should. Or is there anyone in this forum who believes that the USA would let 5 Chinese warships with 8000 military officers and a submarine laden with nuclear weapons to dock at Hawaii just because it was Chinese New Year?

Or maybe we're assuming that the USA will allow 8000 Nigerian soldiers to show up unexpectedly at Florida Bay with Nuclear Weapons just because it's Egungu Festival.

Africa, it's about time you people start growing new brains and stop thinking like black people. Any continent that cannot allow us build a military command of equivalent size on their land cannot build one on our motherland.

Excellent!

@denex,
The problem with the oyinbo-wannabees is that they worship materialism/capitalism (the main strength of the US) and so think ALL should join them in kowtowing to America's every whim.

I believe that, irrespective of economic size, military strength, population, etc., that there should be mutual respect among nations.

denex:

Oh so kobojunkie, so you don't know that the USA has long taken over Japan and is basically still running it?

Well, if the USA wants to set up their AFRICOM, then we will need to first set up our own AMERICOM in Washington DC first. Then we'll need to lobby China to deploy they own AMERICOM in Mexico too.

Prove that statement is true and also include proof of how the japanese are crying to be released from that so called hold you claim they are in under the USA @Denex.

Kobojunkie:

Prove that statement is true and also include proof of how the japanese are crying to be released from that so called hold you claim they are in under the USA @Denex.

Douglas MacArthur ( the American general) was in control of Japan from 1945 till 1951. He wrote the pacifist constitution that changed the destiny of the Japanese from warrior nation to capitalist slaves. Japan uses that same constitution up till today. Or don't you know that 'pacification' is the ultimate weapon of control?

ziddy:

Douglas MacArthur ( the American general) was in control of Japan from 1945 till 1951. He wrote the pacifist constitution that changed the destiny of the Japanese from warrior nation to capitalist slaves. Japan uses that same constitution up till today. Or don't you know that 'pacification' is the ultimate weapon of control?

Your post there says Douglas MacAuthur was in control of Japan from 1945 till 1951. I am not even going to dig into that one but if Japan chooses to continue with the same of it's own,  How does that answer my questions

denex:

Oh so kobojunkie, so you don't know that the USA has long taken over Japan and is basically still running it?

Why do people makes such huge claims sef?

ziddy:

Douglas MacArthur ( the American general) was in control of Japan from 1945 till 1951. He wrote the pacifist constitution that changed the destiny of the Japanese from warrior nation to capitalist slaves. Japan uses that same constitution up till today. Or don't you know that 'pacification' is the ultimate weapon of control?

Another one is here, please learn to research first.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Japan

somze:

Why do people makes such huge claims sef?
Another one is here, please learn to research first.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Japan

Did you skip over this one Just felt to add it for those who do not know ,


At the end of the Second World War, Japan was occupied by the Allied Powers, led by the United States with contributions from Australia, India, the United Kingdom and New Zealand. This was the first time since the unification of Japan that the island nation had been occupied by a foreign power. The San Francisco Peace Treaty, signed on September 8, 1951, marked the end of the Allied occupation, and when it went into effect on April 28, 1952, Japan was once again an independent state.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupied_Japan

Kobojunkie:

Your post there says Douglas MacAuthur was in control of Japan from 1945 till 1951. I[b] am not even going to dig into that one[/b] but if Japan chooses to continue with the same of it's own,  How does that answer my questions

Don't dig into anything. People like you have been conditioned to close their eyes to Truth and when truth comes in subtle forms it makes it easier for your ilk to deny it entirely.

somze:

Why do people makes such huge claims sef?
Another one is here, please learn to research first.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constitution_of_Japan

Thank God for wikipedia. But how does the article impugn my initial post? I suggest you take time out and actually read the article yourself, Mr. Wikipedia  

ziddy:

Don't dig into anything. People like you have been conditioned to close their eyes to Truth and when truth comes in subtle forms it makes it easier for your ilk to deny it entirely.


Thank God for wikipedia. But how does the article impugn my initial post? I suggest you take time out and actually read the article yourself, Mr. Wikipedia 

The Reason I said I would not is cause I know that that has nOthing to do with answering my questions cause if you really researched that post of yours, you would have seen that it was brought to an end some years later. so I see no reason why mentioning that time or what happened back then has anything to do with answering my question. And by the way, my question still stands. if you can answer, feel free to try. but this topic has nothing to do with your ideas of Japan is why I would like to keep it brief and stick to the topic. Prove to me that Japan, Germany, UK, Kosovo  and the other countries who had american bases, even  South Korea are being COLONIZED by america.

You be junkie, true-true. Keep asking your question.

ziddy:

You be junkie, true-true. Keep asking your question.

No need to make this about my person. I am asking Questions, looking for how you rationalize your logic providing factual informations as backup and not just the same old imaginations that people use.

ziddy:

Thank God for wikipedia. But how does the article impugn my initial post? I suggest you take time out and actually read the article yourself, Mr. Wikipedia

Ziddy
1. The general did NOT write the constitution
2. The constitution set up a govt system like that of England NOT US . . . so how the constitution is a medium of US control is purely laughable.
3. The constitution gives US NO control over Japan.

Next time actually read through the link instead of accusing me of not doing so.

Kobojunkie:

No need to make this about my person. I am asking Questions, looking for how you rationalize your logic providing factual informations as backup and not just the same old imaginations that people use.

sorry, was just pulling ur leg.

Most times I do not look at America favourably, but on this one I err on the side of Kobo Kobo. . .

The idea of an American base is not very attractive(postcolonialism and other such epithets) based on their previous record of sabotage and the likes
but the present climate in my opinion is very much different from the suspicious and secretive world of the Cold War. Regime change and other such
intrigues are significantly more difficult to carry out, except the botched but overt manner it was done in Iraq.

Plus we cannot ignore the economic impact which this base will have wherever it is situated. Jobs are created, infrastructure is improved etc.

And I see no reason why we cannot diversify our relationships.

Having China as a major partner sans America is not an option. In fact I would suggest it is a disaster. China is no fairer than America when it comes to trade relationships, as they will demand their own pound of flesh. Dont be fooled by China's rapid progress. It is still largely an economy based on primary industries, the kind that Africa will soon start dominating once it gets its act together and foreign investors realise that Africa is the cheapest base to produce such goods. Then it might be the turn for the non democratic regime in China to start sabotaging our efforts.

We must not allow our politicians as they are doing at present around the continent to shamelessly sell our souls to the most availaible bidder. While we will continue to get raped for a while yet, isnt it fair that the African LovePeddler drive a hard bargain.

The best way to do that is to play this superpowers against each other. . .

doyin13:

Most times I do not look at America favourably, but on this one I err on the side of Kobo Kobo. . .

The idea of an American base is not very attractive(postcolonialism and other such epithets) based on their previous record of sabotage and the likes
but the present climate in my opinion is very much different from the suspicious and secretive world of the Cold War. Regime change and other such
intrigues are significantly more difficult to carry out, except the botched but overt manner it was done in Iraq.

Plus we cannot ignore the economic impact which this base will have wherever it is situated. Jobs are created, infrastructure is improved etc.

And I see no reason why we cannot diversify our relationships.

Having China as a major partner sans America is not an option. In fact I would suggest it is a disaster. China is no fairer than America when it comes to trade relationships, as they will demand their own pound of flesh. Dont be fooled by China's rapid progress. It is still largely an economy based on primary industries, the kind that Africa will soon start dominating once it gets its act together and foreign investors realise that Africa is the cheapest base to produce such goods. Then it might be the turn for the non democratic regime in China to start sabotaging our efforts.

We must not allow our politicians as they are doing at present around the continent to shamelessly sell our souls to the most availaible bidder. While we will continue to get raped for a while yet, isnt it fair that the African LovePeddler drive a hard bargain.

The best way to do that is to play this superpowers against each other. . .

Thank you for posting some reality in here.

I look at Japan as an example of one country that has taken it's relationship with the US and turned it to it's own advantage. The Country practically spends zilch when it comes to it's millitary needs but it knows that any day, it can call on the US to help defend it from China or whatever other enemies in it's region. Because of this relationship, Japan has been able to pour more of it's money into it's tech industry and other areas. Japan rules the technology world and everywhere you look in the world today and even the united states, japanese goods, even if made in china, all over the place and someone dares claim US controls japan I am looking at the Holiday List and most all the machines are japanese made. Even the very best toys on the christmas shopping list top 10 are of Japanese origin.

my man junkie men i feel u the us plan is all aimed 2 extract oil we should reject it.but come 2 think of it u seem to like d ldea of those guys coming down here could u pls skool me of d benefits

@ joecrak, please if you nothing to say keep quiet. People are making sense, you are talking upside down, oil and more than 70% of your population are below or on the poverty line.

@ doyin, thanks your balanced contribution, its because as a nation we still don't know our left from our right. What is the Nigerian strategic interest. Please lets start by defining the Nigerian interest, whats our interest, we shouldnt have permanent friends we should have permanent interest, and seek to protect the interest. But a situation where we can't define our interest as a nation, that is where the confusion arises.

I have refused to comment on this China crase, but since you've mentioned it. The so called chinese companies, how much do they pay their staff, what kind of staff welfare policies do they have, they are worse slave drivers. I am so against our partnership with China not being strategic, we need to keep them for what we need them for and importantly keep the Americans for what we need them for. I would rather work for Exxonmobil or Chevron than a Chinese oil company, the terms of service are miles apart.

If theres a partnership that can help us contain improve the capacity of the Navy but in terms of its capability then the option should be explored. If the navy can contain the arms flow, the pirate ships where they trade their illegal bunkered oil for arms, the problem is half solved. But as usual my mother land concentrated on the irrelevant. Cut the supply of arms by properly policing the waterways.

I keep saying it, we were in Liberia and Sierre leone, all the troops that died nothing to show for it. No gain to Nigeria, selfless Nigeria that gains from nothing always harming itself.

@ kobojunke, that you, interest, Japan has defined its interest and is acting accordingly.

Buluti

That an American Company pays its staff more than Chineese could simply be changed by ammending Labour Laws. Their is nothing strategic about that and most times employee salary is not first on the list when it comes to discussions with foreign investors. And I don think that is most strategic thing from National interest point of view.

What should be of interest to us on the long term and by every sense of the word strategic is Technology Transfer.

If the Chineese agree to local refining of crude and local manufacturing and siting factories (not just crude oil lifting companies) that is more strategic than anything from a Nigerian point of view. All we need to now do is to amend our labour laws and welfare scheme for company employees.

I do agree with you that we should not have permanent friends but permanent strategic interests, but their is nothing strategic about placing priority on company salary scheme over our push for local manufacturing.

McKren:

Buluti

That an American Company pays its staff more than Chineese could simply be changed by ammending Labour Laws. Their is nothing strategic about that and most times employee salary is not first on the list when it comes to discussions with foreign investors. And I don think that is most strategic thing from National interest point of view.

What should be of interest to us on the long term and by every sense of the word strategic is Technology Transfer.

If the Chineese agree to local refining of crude and local manufacturing and siting factories (not just crude oil lifting companies) that is more strategic than anything from a Nigerian point of view. All we need to now do is to amend our labour laws and welfare scheme for company employees.

I do agree with you that we should not have permanent friends but permanent strategic interests, but their is nothing strategic about placing priority on company salary scheme over our push for local manufacturing.

Do you think the Chinese will allow for such a relationship or such amendments then under the current agreements between the Chinese and Nigeria?? @McKren

When people have invested so much money to site factories, business is booming, profit margin is high,

Government will periodically increase minimum wage little by little until it gets to world class standard. That is how it is done.


By then it will be too late for any investor to consider quiting because they are still making profit, and yet so much time and money may have been commited to quit. (Besides that they will have no choice but to accept Government regulations)
The labour force would have learnt how to work on Production lines.

Why do most UK and US manufacturers produce in china? Cheap labour!!!!
And the country is better for it.

@ Mckren, so you think the chinese would give you the much sought after "Technology Transfer", so they would become irrelevant to you. When are we going to wake up in this country.

buluti:

@ joecrak, please if you nothing to say keep quiet. People are making sense, you are talking upside down, oil and more than 70% of your population are below or on the poverty line.

@ doyin, thanks your balanced contribution, its because as a nation we still don't know our left from our right. What is the
I have refused to comment on this China crase, but since you've mentioned it. The so called chinese companies, how much do they pay their staff, what kind of staff welfare policies do they have, they are worse slave drivers. I[b] am so against our partnership with China not being strategic,[/b] we need to keep them for what we need them for and importantly keep the Americans for what we need them for. I would rather work for Exxonmobil or Chevron than a Chinese oil company, the terms of service are miles apart.

Where did i say salary payment was strategic, i used a variable to suggest a comparison, stating that in the most basic form they are worse off. I said partnership, please read the above again, a partnership is not about salary payments. Why have the Americans not waited for the labour law to pay their staff well, you need a Labour law to force the chinese. The ideals of the two societies differ, on the average the American firm would value its work force more than the chinese firm.

Keep waiting you think the chinese have the Nigerian interest at heart, please keep waiting. I am so astonished at our laziness.