Pascal's Wager is nonsensical. In fact I will go so far as to say that there is a lot to lose from believing in God when such belief is delivered and practiced in the fashion common with most Religions today

Deep Sight:
Pascal's Wager is nonsensical. In fact I will go so far as to say that there is a lot to lose from believing in God when such belief is delivered and practiced in the fashion common with most Religions today

Nice of you to put closure to this slowly lengthening thread

lagerwhenindoubt:

What will cause a fully-grown, thinking man to believe that his God demands the death of another man because he worships a false god. Only a flawed philosophy, its practice and evidently its leaders. ISLAM is what it is today (evidently) because Allah demands death to every unbeliever - or so its devotees believe. or one that will cause a sick man to refuse medication because he has been miraculously healed of his ailment even when the evidence is to the contrary. Believing in God gives man the latitude to stop thinking for himself and allow this unseen, almighty being become the final word on his life on earth. what a travesty

christianity believes in miracles, but christianity does not encourage laziness or irresponsibility. christianity cannot be held responsible for the malpractice of christianity, just like any other discipline out there. A lazy man simply finds excuse.

Deep Sight:
Pascal's Wager is nonsensical. In fact I will go so far as to say that there is a lot to lose from believing in God when such belief is delivered and practiced in the fashion common with most Religions today

in other words, you agree that it's the malpractice that's the problem!

@cyrexx
ma man cyrexx,
Aside the underlying intent of ur effort, i must say that religion has actually had a huge part in keeping the world the bad way it is.
Exploitation, war, deception and what have u.

However, due to the generalisation am compel to ask.

Does the fact that there are fake currency in circulation a rationale to conclude that there are no genuine currency available?

Or,
does the fact that there are genuine currency a rationel to conclude that there are no fake currentcy?

Well, a careful consideration of this questions simply highlighted the dangers of being extreme on either side.

Meanwhile, the attraction to me is the two bible text u quoted above.
Friend, the two scriptures are similar, the only diff being that one is to the Jews while the other is to those professing christianity.

The both are refering to leaving the right way and chosing the wrong one, and God LETING them have the wrong way since they never remain in the right way.
Vers 21 of Ezekiel, says, they walked not in my statut, neither kept my judgement to do them. Which if a man do he will even live by them,
read vers 20 to 30,
in 25 he said he let them have statute that were not Good just as the nation all around were having since they rejected his own laws. Note, he let them. (use diff translations)

2thess 2:11,12 is similar,
God let them accept the illusion since they did not accept the truth as to be saved. Read vers 9 to 12
(make reference to more than one translatoin)

In both instances it is a reference to his reaction to those who did not remain in his way the right way, so he let them to go wherever they want (wrong way)
what u cited shows consistency in standered,

note what the truth is., John 17vers 17

(eg. ur wife wants to quite, well, u let her leave)
peace

@ okeyxyz and frosbel

i am just waiting for you to finish before i reply all your defenses against christianity
actually you have not shown any convincing evidence that god exists but only try to show that christianity is the best choice in religion

but i dont need to repeat myself again as i have replied you earlier

cyrexx:

each and every religion can say exactly the same thing you are saying here about their religion. no proof of anything

besides if you had been raised from childhood as a muslim or buddhist or hindu, you would believe strongly[b] exactly the same way about them[/b] as you are about christianity now. nothing more nothing less

cyrexx:


by your logic it means that Jehovah, Allah, Brahma, and many other gods that millions of people "percieves his existence, believes in him and subjects themselves to that god's doctrines" are all co-existing?

all of them are co-existing as the "one and only true god" by your logic here

cyrexx:
you can defend your religion and vouch for your own god
just as more than 4 billion people on earth can vouch for their own god too. they strongly believed your god is NOT the true god.

if you are interested in showing that christianity is the best choice in religion, then you have to justify the many wickedness of your god Yahweh who is the father of Christ and show that he is better than the bloodthirsty Allah and other tribal gods of different cultures,

just tell me how a true god can do all these


1. Would God kill 70,000 people to punish one man?

Here, the Bible says that God once killed 70,000 people instantly just to punish their leader, King David. How would Christians today feel, I wonder, if God killed them to punish their political leader? Would they feel ok with it? Would they feel that it was fair?

1 Chronicles 21:14
"So the LORD sent pestilence upon Israel: and there fell of Israel
seventy thousand men."



2. Would God kill or order the killing of innocent children?

How could we possibly even ask whether a good, loving, just, fair, righteous holy God would do such things? Nevertheless, that’s what’s in the Bible, which is supposedly the “word of God”. Take a look at these verses below from the Bible where God either kills innocent children or orders/condones the killing of them, in order to punish disobedient parents.

"And it came to pass, that at midnight the LORD smote all the firstborn
in the land of Egypt, from the firstborn of Pharaoh that sat on his
throne unto the firstborn of the captive that was in the dungeon; and
all the firstborn of cattle." (Exodus 12:29)

"Now therefore, kill every male among the little ones, and kill
every woman who has known man by lying with him. But all the young girls
who have not known man by lying with him, keep alive for yourselves."
(Moses - Numbers 31:17)

"And the LORD our God delivered him before us; and we smote him, and his
sons, and all his people. And we took all his cities at that time, and utterly
destoyed the men, and the women, and the little ones, of every city
we left none to remain:" (Deuteronomy 2:33-34)

"And the LORD said unto me, 'Fear him not: for I will deliver him, and all
his people, and his land, into thy hand; and thou shalt do unto him as
thou didst unto Sihon king of the Amorites, which dwelt at Heshbon'.......
And we utterly destroyed them, as we did unto Sihon king of Heshbon,
utterly destroying the men, women, and children, of every city."
(Deuteronomy 3:2-6)

"This is what the LORD says: Now go and smite Amalek, and
utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both
man and woman, infant and suckling, ox and sheep, camel and ass ....'
And Saul ... utterly destroyed all the people with the edge of the sword."
(1 Samuel 15:3,7-

"And Nathan departed unto his house. And the LORD struck the child that
Uriah's wife bare unto David, and it was very sick... And it came to
pass on the seventh day, that the child died..." (2 Samuel 12:15-18)

"And he went up from thence unto Bethel: and as he was going up by the
way, there came forth little children out of the city, and mocked him,
and said unto him, Go up, thou bald head; go up, thou bald head.
And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of
the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare
forty and two children of them." (2 Kings 2:23-24)

"Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is
joined unto them shall fall by the sword. Their children also shall be
dashed to pieces before their eyes; their houses shall be spoiled, and
their wives ravished...... Their bows also shall dash the young men to
pieces; and they shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye
shall not spare children." (Isaiah 13:15-18)

"Prepare slaughter for his children for the iniquity of their fathers; that
they do not rise, nor possess the land, nor fill the face of the world with
cities... For I will rise up against them, saith the LORD of hosts..."
(Isaiah 14:21-22)

"And I will dash them one against another, even the fathers and
the sons together, saith the LORD: I will not pity, nor spare, nor have
mercy, but destroy them." (Jeremiah 13:14)

"The hands of the pitiful women have sodden their own children: they
were their meat in the destruction of the daughter of my people. The
Lord hath accomplished his fury; he hath poured out his fierce anger, and
hath kindled a fire in Zion, and it hath devoured the foundations thereof."
(Lamentations 4:10-11)

"And the Lord said unto him,... And to the others he said in mine hearing,
Go ye after him through the city, and smite: let not your eye spare, neither
have ye pity: Slay utterly old and young, both maids, and little children,
and women: but come not near any man upon whom is the mark; and begin
at my sanctuary. Then they began at the ancient men which were before the
house." (Ezekiel 9:4-6)

"Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with
her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds. And I
will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that
I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every
one of you according to your works." (Jesus - Revelation 2:22-23)





3. Would God order people to dash infants against rocks and floors?

These verses below would make anyone speechless!

"O daughter of Babylon, who art to be destroyed; happy shall he be,
that rewardeth thee as thou hast served us. Happy shall he be, that
taketh and dasheth thy little ones against the stones." (Psalms 137:8-9)

"The people of Samaria must bear their guilt, because they have rebelled
against their God. They will fall by the sword; their little ones will be
dashed to the ground, their pregnant women ripped open." (Hosea 13:16)

"Every one that is found shall be thrust through; and every one that is
joined unto them shall fall by the sword.
Their children also shall be dashed to pieces before their eyes; their
houses shall be spoiled, and their wives ravished." (Isaiah 13:15,16)

"Their bows also shall dash the young men to pieces; and they
shall have no pity on the fruit of the womb; their eye shall not spare
children." (Isaiah 13:18)


4. Would God order his followers to kill each other?

Here is a strange incident where God seems to get entertainment out of watching people kill each other, resulting in 3000 casualties. Very similar to kids who enjoy making unreal people in a video game kill each other. But this is supposed to be literal historical fact! Take a look.

Exodus 32:27-29
27
Then he said to them, "This is what the LORD, the God of Israel, says:
`Each man strap a sword to his side. Go back and forth through the camp
from one end to the other, each killing his brother and friend and neighbor.'"
28
The Levites did as Moses commanded, and that day about three thousand of
the people died.
29
Then Moses said, "You have been set apart to the LORD today, for you
were against your own sons and brothers, and he has blessed you this
day."



Christians, if God asked you to carry a sword and go around killing as many "brothers" as you can among you, would you do it? Would you? Be honest!






5. Why would an all loving God discriminate against the handicapped?

Here is another odd one. You would think that a merciful loving God who loves people unconditionally and shows no partiality would not have anything against people who are handicapped. But take a look at this verse here about who can and can’t come to offer food to God. (And oddly enough, if God disliked the handicapped, why would he make people that way?)

Leviticus 21:16-21
16
The LORD said to Moses,
17
"Say to Aaron: `For the generations to come none of your descendants who
has a defect may come near to offer the food of his God.
18
No man who has any defect may come near: no man who is blind or lame,
disfigured or deformed;
19
no man with a crippled foot or hand,
20
or who is hunchbacked or dwarfed, or who has any eye defect, or who has
festering or running sores or damaged testicles.
21
No descendant of Aaron the priest who has any defect is to come near to
present the offerings made to the LORD by fire. He has a defect; he must
not come near to offer the food of his God.





all these shows that that Yahweh is just a tribal Jewish god like Islamic Allah or African tribal gods or Indian Brahma, you cannot just reject all of the rest as untrue and pick only one because you are raised as a christian.
if you reject one, you have to reject the rest because they all have the same characteristics and none of them could be the true creator, if there is even anything like that

@cyrexx, Your reasonings are just simply without direction & overall inconsistent;

First: I said to you b4, ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE is not EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE, If you can demonstrate to me how a man can scientifically & irrefutably prove to others that he loves his wife, then I might begin to agree with you, but you definitely have no ideas. That is exactly the way a relationship with god is.

Second: The Point i was making of christianity in all my references was not to show to you that christianity is the one true religion(Though it is to me, personally), but i was speaking of a concept of god I am familiar, with rather than the ones i don't know, ie: islam, judaism, bhuddism, etc.

Lastly: Your arguments are not collected, even on your own terms, they are illogical. On the one hand you argue that god does not exist, yet here you are presenting "evidences & references" to show that this same god, who does not exist, is a wicked & unjust one. you are simply contradicting yourself. If you accuse god of being wicked & unjust, then you acknowlege that he exists. You cannot support two opposing sides. Either god does not exist and therefore all the wickedness you accuse him of does not exist, or god exists and therefore stands accused of wickedness. Please take one position.

LOL, its like i touch a nerve.
All i have written is to show you that god is imaginary.
You too are an atheist with regards to other gods. All i have done is to show you that your god is so similar to other gods that you believe do not exists. Therefore your god do not exist.

^^^
Yet you fail to address any of my questions.., What am i gonna do with you?? You are not adding any value to this debate..

@cyrexx
Bro, the issues concerning David and the seventy thousand (70k) is an interesting piece that if one is over critical on God will fall prey due to what is call haughy heart.

befor i explain, i will want u to cite the portion of the bible that give the reason for that action. Cus it is also there.
If u are able to cite the portion of the bible that give reason for that action, then i will go ahead and explain more on that scriptures.
If u cite the scripture, it will show that ur motive for reading the bible is not sinister.
Since with ur quotes u give us the impression that u know the bible in and out.

Or do u just go through the bible looking for what to post?

I believe that the bible is written in such a way that only sincere persistent searchers for truth can go in and get the right idea, otherwise, what u get is subject to what ur mind is made of. So that at the end u get a befitting recompense.

Failure to cite where the reason for that action was given will simply reveal ur intent, and i cant follow u on such sojourn.

However, i will give a clue (book of chronicles)

The reason for persistents in asking question is to prevent one from going astray.
Peace.

okeyxyz: ^^^
Yet you fail to address any of my questions.., What am i gonna do with you?? You are not adding any value to this debate..

can you kindly list the questions again and let us see if i have not addressed them in my recent posts.

cyrexx:


can you kindly list the questions again and let us see if i have not addressed them in my recent posts.

Try these:

okeyxyz: First: I said to you b4, ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE is not EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE, If you can demonstrate to me how a man can scientifically & irrefutably prove to others that he loves his wife, then I might begin to agree with you, but you definitely have no ideas. That is exactly the way a relationship with god is.

okeyxyz: Lastly: Your arguments are not collected, even on your own terms, they are illogical. On the one hand you argue that god does not exist, yet here you are presenting "evidences & references" to show that this same god, who does not exist, is a wicked & unjust one. you are simply contradicting yourself. If you accuse god of being wicked & unjust, then you acknowlege that he exists. You cannot support two opposing sides. Either god does not exist and therefore all the wickedness you accuse him of does not exist, or god exists and therefore stands accused of wickedness. Please take one position.

ok let me address your points

you said

okeyxyz:
First: I said to you b4, ABSENCE OF EVIDENCE is not EVIDENCE OF ABSENCE, If you can demonstrate to me how a man can scientifically & irrefutably prove to others that he loves his wife, then I might begin to agree with you, but you definitely have no ideas. That is exactly the way a relationship with god is.

to which i replied

cyrexx:
i can prove that i love my wife by doing things for her that are evidence of my love for her and she will recognise it as love beyond reasonable doubt

now to buttress my point, the empirical proof for my love for my wife can be proved thus
1. the physical measurable things i bought for her
2. the measurable amount of time i spent to please her and do what she likes
3. the measurable amount of time in many years i spend with her in my committment to our marriage vows
4. the measurable faithfulness and self-control i go thru to avoid cheating on her
5. the measurable physiological hearbeats and "butterflies" that confirms my love for her
6. i can go on and on and on but i believe you get the gist

these are provable and my wife will see beyond any reasonable doubt that i love her
how do you relate this to god


now your second poser

okeyxyz:
On the one hand you argue that god does not exist, yet here you are presenting "evidences & references" to show that this same god, who does not exist, is a wicked & unjust one. you are simply contradicting yourself. If you accuse god of being wicked & unjust, then you acknowlege that he exists. You cannot support two opposing sides. Either god does not exist and therefore all the wickedness you accuse him of does not exist, or god exists and therefore stands accused of wickedness. Please take one position.

to which i replied

cyrexx:
All i have written is to show you that god is imaginary.
You too are an atheist with regards to other gods. All i have done is to show you that your god is so similar to other gods that you believe do not exist. Therefore your god do not exist.

i even quoted scriptures so that you will not think i make all these up

although you misunderstood and slightly insulted me, but i let it pass,
what i mean exactly is that just about everyone is an atheist when it comes to other gods — the gods that other people believe in or that nobody believes in anymore. I’m an atheist about all gods because there's no reliable evidence for any god. There is also extensive evidence that all gods are fictional characters — myths created mainly by primitive people who had little understanding of how our universe operates. We all like myths and other stories, but we don't have to believe them.

that is my reply

thanxxx