According to Col 1:14, Apostle Paul thought Christians dat they are nolonger under the law. ''The handwriting of ordinance written against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us, and He(Christ) have taken it away nailing it to the cross.

He(Paul) also taught dat d law was our school teacher leading us to Christ. Jesus said: ''I did not come to break d law, I have come to fulfil dem.

After d rebelion in Edem, there was a need to prepare a people who will pave d way for the Christ to come. The Jews as a chosen people were given some sets of laws to abide by, until the Christ come. It is expected that once the Mesiah comes, these laws will be obselete.

What are these laws? They are particularly entrenched in the books of Leviticus through Numbers and Deuteronomy. There are series of sacrifices, burnt offerings, the composition of the terbanacle, the pristly duties, the annual and other festivals, and there is the law of TITHING! All these must be done away with after d last sacrifice done by Christ on d cross.

How did d law became a tutor leading us to Christ? Evrything written on the law and prophets point to the Mesiah, it prepares the minds of the Jews for the coming of the Savior of the world. That is why Jesus said shortly before His death that ''everything that was said by the law and prophet concerning the SON of man have been fulfilled''.

Therefore because Christ died for our sins, he bore the borden of the law with Him, that we may be free from the law. What we should be living on today is the law of libery, wch is the law of Christ! What is dis law? It simply says: love God with all ur heart, with everything u gat, and also love ur nebor as u love ursef, besides this there is no other law!

So let no man deceive u that there are some laws that are valid, and some are invalid, all the laws where blotted out for us!

Some people hold on to tithes so much dat they put it as a debt we owe God, dat must be paid, thereby putting back dat law and burden dat Christ died 4 back 2 us.

Why only tithe these men hold on to? Why are they not doing burnt offering and animal sacrifices? Why are the not celebrating those old traditions of the jews? Besides those laws where given to the Jews, and not 4 the whole world.

''My people perish because of lack of understanding'' until Christians start following Christ and not human leaders, they will continue to be in bondage.

The law have been ablished after the death of Christ, therefore let no man put u back under those laws!

The Law includes the Ten Commandments and every ordinance that followed it. All are abolished and done away with. Every law that was given by\to Moses, starting from exodus(you left out exodus). This means that all definitions of the law are no longer valid. The definition of righteousness and sin are no longer as the law defined them(or as we understood the law).

[quote author=Qkeyxyz]The Law includes the Ten Commandments and every ordinance that followed it. All are abolished and done away with. Every law that was given by\to Moses, starting from exodus(you left out exodus). This means that all definitions of the law are no longer valid. The definition of righteousness and sin are no longer as the law defined them(or as we understood the law).

Yes u are right, d law includes d 10 comandment and exodus. And evry ordinance dat come with it ended when Christ died.

maximunimpact: According to Col 1:14, Apostle Paul thought Christians dat they are nolonger under the law. ''The handwriting of ordinance written against us, which consisted of decrees and which was in opposition to us, and He(Christ) have taken it away nailing it to the cross.

@Maximumimpact,
Ordinances are not same as laws. Ordinances are more like dogmas. Please do not confuse this with God's law. Colossians 2:14 said it as ordinances AGAINST US which consisted of decrees which were in opposition to us. IT is not the same of the 'Love the Lord with all the heart, might and strength' as that is not an ordinance against us.
Let me show you other translations of that verse.

Colossians 2:14
having erased the charges that were brought against us, along with their obligations that were hostile to us. He took those charges away when he nailed them to the cross - ISV

He canceled the record of the charges against us and took it away by nailing it to the cross. - NLT

having canceled the charge of our legal indebtedness, which stood against us and condemned us; he has taken it away, nailing it to the cross. - NIV

Blotting out the handwriting of the decree that was against us, which was contrary to us. And he hath taken the same out of the way, fastening it to the cross - DRB

The handwriting of the ordinances against us is the penalty for our sin, record of wrong doings and charge list. Jesus nailed the curse and penalty of sin and not the law. It is like a sinner that has a register. It is not the law that was blotted but the charges brought about by failing to keep the law in spirit and truth.
Anyone not in Christ has a debt to pay, debt of his sin and this debt can only be blotted in Christ. If he remains without Christ, his debt remians. That is why eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth, anyone who dishonours his father or mother to be stoned are blotted through faith and belief in Jesus Christ. Those were ordinances against us and hanging upon us for 'payment' till the blood of Jesus wiped it away because of our belief in Him.
It does not mean we should not dishonour parents, does it? On the contrary because we believe in Jesus now and the Holy spirit helps us, we are renewed through washing with water through the word - Eph. 5:26

See Paul talking here
Romans 7:12
12 So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good. 13 But how can that be? Did the law, which is good, cause my death? Of course not! Sin used what was good to bring about my condemnation to death. So we can see how terrible sin really is. It uses God's good commands for its own evil purposes. 14 We know that the law is spiritual; but I am unspiritual, sold as a slave to sin.

The law is spiritual and Jesus came to show the spirit behind the law thus fulfilling it and it is only in Jesus we can fulfill the law as well, not according to the flesh.

maximunimpact:
He(Paul) also taught dat d law was our school teacher leading us to Christ. Jesus said: ''I did not come to break d law, I have come to fulfil dem.

After d rebelion in Edem, there was a need to prepare a people who will pave d way for the Christ to come. The Jews as a chosen people were given some sets of laws to abide by, until the Christ come. It is expected that once the Mesiah comes, these laws will be obselete.

Many times when you are given laws in school, do you fully understand them? NO, it is usually afterwards you understand the discipline and consistency it though you. Do you throw away all your school master thought you? NO!
When you graduate, you are no longer under a school master as you are expected to be mature enough to do the RIGHT THING in spirit and truth of the word.
Christ brought the real meaning of the law and not the way people saw it. He showed that the law can only be fulfilled when it is rightly understood.
He said adultery is done in the heart before the body physically completes it, He said murder starts with hatred. If you can remove the foreskin (veil) of your heart (True circumcision), the Holy Spirit will guide us in all truth. What is truth, the law - Psalm 119:142.


Romans 8:1-4
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. 3For what the law could not do,in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: 4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.



Read it carefully, we keep seeing the word Spirit, spirit, spirit. What are the fruit of the spirit against which there is no law....Read Galatians 5:222-23 and when you read that you will understand that anyone who exhibit those fruits in Jesus have fulfilled the law. Remember, it said, the RIGHTEOUSNESS OF THE LAW MAY BE FULFILLED IN US, WHO WALK NOT AFTER THE FLESH BUT AFTER THE SPIRIT!
The LAW OF THE SPIRIT is what FREES you from the LAW OF THE FLESH....Did you notice this. WHen your spirit is already right through Christ, you cannot fulfil the lusts of the flesh thus making you subject to the law of sin and death. That is the FREEDOM that Jesus brought by fulfilling the LAW in TRUTH.

maximunimpact:
What are these laws? They are particularly entrenched in the books of Leviticus through Numbers and Deuteronomy. There are series of sacrifices, burnt offerings, the composition of the terbanacle, the pristly duties, the annual and other festivals, and there is the law of TITHING! All these must be done away with after d last sacrifice done by Christ on d cross.

How did d law became a tutor leading us to Christ? Evrything written on the law and prophets point to the Mesiah, it prepares the minds of the Jews for the coming of the Savior of the world. That is why Jesus said shortly before His death that ''everything that was said by the law and prophet concerning the SON of man have been fulfilled''.

Therefore because Christ died for our sins, he bore the borden of the law with Him, that we may be free from the law. What we should be living on today is the law of libery, wch is the law of Christ! What is dis law? It simply says: love God with all ur heart, with everything u gat, and also love ur nebor as u love ursef, besides this there is no other law!

Sacrifices and burnt offerings were for remission of sins which was a shadow of the real sacrifice of Jesus, who had no sin, and that is why no one needs to sacrifice to heaven to ask for forgiveness but to come before Christ in repentance. That is the perfect sacrifice. The priests were the ones who offered the sacrifice to God now we have a High Priest who is the sacrifice and adviocate for us in Heaven. They served the people and God gave them them the tithe for the service to which they served because they focused on also teaching the people the law.
Jesus has said we should tithe. Paul expressed this as well in his epistle because he knows a workman is worthy of his wage. And also tithe is used for all the needs of the ministry as well as thanksgiving offerings not because of sin but because of appreciation.
You need not fight the law of God because you do not want to tithe as I see this is what this is all about. Everyone has a choice, do not be afraid to stand by the choice. Everyone is accountable individually to God.

Matthew 23:23
"What sorrow awaits you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest income from your herb gardens, but you ignore the more important aspects of the law--justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but do not neglect the more important things
Balance......be balanced in your approach to the master's words.

I Corinthians 9:11-14
11If we have sown spiritual seed among you, is it too much if we reap a material harvest from you? 12If others have this right of support from you, shouldn’t we have it all the more?
13Don’t you know that those who serve in the temple get their food from the temple, and that those who serve at the altar share in what is offered on the altar? 14 In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

Galatians 6:6
Those who are taught the word of God should provide for their teachers, sharing all good things with them.

II Corinthians 11:8
I robbed other churches, taking wages of them that I might minister unto you

Jesus has said a workman is worthy of his wages or hire, He said nothing is wrong with tithe and admonished the balance, Paul affirmed that in teh same way the Lord ordained that those who proclaim the gospel should take their living from it.
Anyone who is truly serving the Lord, and dedicated to the church and its ministers will not have a problem with tithing. Infact giving becomes such a lifestyle it is a pleasure. It is those whose hearts are wrong that see tithe as a burden.
I leave you to the Holy Spirit to complete His work in you. Walking in the spirit will remove malice, anger and bitterness from our hearts and let us do things rightly dividing the word of truth.

We need to stop using semantics and ambiguous english to confuse ourselves. Law is law, whether ordinances or commandments, whether ceremonial or moral. Law is law. Jesus didnt divide them into compactments, so when Jesus fulfilled the law he fulfilled all and brought it to pass. Now we should just be led of the Holy spirit, and even though when the spirit leads us we also do many things that were advocated by the law, that doesnt mean he leads us by the law or helps us obey the law. The spirit helps us manifest the life of Christ.

ayoku777: We need to stop using semantics and ambiguous english to confuse ourselves. Law is law, whether ordinances or commandments, whether ceremonial or moral. Law is law. Jesus didnt divide them into compactments, so when Jesus fulfilled the law he fulfilled all and brought it to pass. Now we should just be led of the Holy spirit, and even though when the spirit leads us we also do many things that were advocated by the law, that doesnt mean he leads us by the law or helps us obey the law. The spirit helps us manifest the life of Christ.

He fulfills the righteous requirements of the law in us WHO WALK AFTER THE SPIRIT. Meaning, if the Christian walks after the flesh, He is not led by the Spirit but led by the flesh which puts one under the law. Sorry no one can throw-away the law. Christ wants us to die to the flesh, live free from the law of sin and death through the LAW OF THE SPIRIT.
If you do not like the word 'Law', why read the bible? Has the Law of the Spirit not set you free from the LAw of sin and death? Is that not a LAW....Why do you not do away with the LAW of the Spirit then because you just do not like the word 'LAW'?

Chose the Law you want....but everyone lives either by the LAW of sin and death or the LAW of the Spirit/Liberty (in which the righteousness of the law is fulfilled through Christ Jesus).

Paul, Himself said:

Romans 7:25
So then, I myself in my mind am a slave to God’s law, but in my sinful natured a slave to the law of sin

The sinful nature puts one under the law of sin and death needing Christ's grace but the law of God in the Spirit helps us live in liberty and freedom. Understand this and you understand the whole essence of the bible.

We are saying the same thing but semantics get us locking horns. You are calling it 'law of the spirit' while i am calling it 'spirit'. And the reason i'm calling it spirit without the 'law' semantic is coz now we have an imputed righteousness that is independent of works and growing unto perfection no longer involves the methodical keeping of commandments and adhering to a set of regulations. Its now letting the spirit live out the life of Christ through us as we fellowship with the spirit.

@ Alwaystrue,

What does Paul, the Apostle meant in Galatians 2:18 and what was it that was tore down? Two in one question.

ayoku777: We are saying the same thing but semantics get us locking horns. You are calling it 'law of the spirit' while i am calling it 'spirit'. And the reason i'm calling it spirit without the 'law' semantic is coz it no longer involves the methodical keeping of commandments and adhering to a set of regulations. Its now letting the spirit live out the life of Christ through us as we fellowship with the spirit.

May be so. But the bible 'calls' it law of the Spirit not me. I did not say it, the bible said it and I amplified it and have shown scriptures the law of the spirit is used. So you see, that is why I keep wondering why you will say I SAID it.
Take a look again and if you need more scriptures I will show, if you are fine with using spirit, fine. As you said, we mean the same thing.
As a Christian I do not need anyone to tell me 'Do not commit adultery'...because I am led of the Spirit to tell me lust is a work of the flesh, and love is of Christ...in doing this I have fulfilled the law in Christ. I am free to see it the way I want but the end result is that the spirit leads me because of Christ to fulfill the truth in God's laws.
Thanks.

Alwaystrue:

May be so. But the bible 'calls' it law of the Spirit not me. I did not say it, the bible said it and I amplified it and have shown scriptures the law of the spirit is used. So you see, that is why I keep wondering why you will say I SAID it.
Take a look again and if you need more scriptures I will show, if you are fine with using spirit, fine. As you said, we mean the same thing.
As a Christian I do not need anyone to tell me 'Do not commit adultery'...because I am led of the Spirit to tell me lust is a work of the flesh, and love is of Christ...in doing this I have fulfilled the law in Christ. I am free to see it the way I want but the end result is that the spirit leads me because of Christ to fulfill the truth in God's laws.
Thanks.

yeah, but Jesus never referred to live in the spirit as law. The only thing he called law was the law of moses that he came to fulfil. The romans were carnal intellectuals and the galatians were dull of hearing and most time Paul spoke in languages they could understand. Life in the spirit is not law-like.

And secondly, your obedience to the spirit does not make you fulfil the law. Christ alone did that that, he fulfilled the law, and what is fulfilled is exactly that, fulfilled. It doesnt need another fulfilment from us. We are righteous in Christ and our obedience to the spirit is to move up unto perfection in Him. It is not to fulfil the law

Goshen360: @ Alwaystrue,

What does Paul, the Apostle meant in Galatians 2:18 and what was it that was tore down? Two in one question.

We have discussed about law and grace before now have we not? However you will do the study yourself, read in context especally from Galatians 2:11-15 and understand:


Galatians 2:18-19
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

As I advised read the context and see that Paul was talking about Peter's hyprocrisy regarding his dealings with gentiles.

It is the Holy Spirit that will further explain to you (as a person who prides himself to be a bibe teacher) how someone THROUGH the LAW is DEAD to THE Law so one can live for God.
Thanks.

ayoku777:

yeah, but Jesus never referred to live in the spirit as law. The only thing he called law was the law of moses that he came to fulfil. The romans were carnal intellectuals and the galatians were dull of hearing and most time Paul spoke in languages they could understand. Life in the spirit is not law-like.

And secondly, your obedience to the spirit does not make you fulfil the law. Christ alone did that that, he fulfilled the law, and what is fulfilled is exactly that, fulfilled. It doesnt need another fulfilment from us. We are righteous in Christ and our obedience to the spirit is to move up unto perfection in Him. It is not to fulfil the law

Matthew 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Look very well at both scriptures, Jesus said, he did not come to DESTROY the law and the prophets but to fulfill it for not one jot will pass from the law till heaven and earth pass away (NOT TILL HE DIES AND RISES UP).
Meaning while He lived on earth, Jesus fulfilled the law as it should and taught others the true meaning (expression and performance) of the law. He was the first person to fulfill it in its entirety and died taking away the curse, penalty and transgression of the law. ANd now everyone who believes in Him and receives the promise of the Holy Spirit MIGHT have the RIGHTEOUSNESS of the law fulfilled in them as well AS LONG AS THEY WALK IN THE SPIRIT (evidenced by the fruits).

Now the clincher below settles it all:


Romans 3:30-31
30 There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. 31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

I will let the Holy Spirit take up the rest in the readers.

There is somtin confusing here from what pro-law keepers are saying. Is it not a clear bible teaching dat we are not under d law? Even as ignorant I am as a xtian, I knw dat d law was fulfilled by Christ, and therefore nolonger binding on us. Pls those of u claiming d law still binds xtians, can u clearly convince me y I shud remain under law and not under grace 4 wch Christ died 4? Pls be honest fellow xtians..........are we still under the law?

maximunimpact: There is somtin confusing here from what pro-law keepers are saying. Is it not a clear bible teaching dat we are not under d law? Even as ignorant I am as a xtian, I knw dat d law was fulfilled by Christ, and therefore nolonger binding on us. Pls those of u claiming d law still binds xtians, can u clearly convince me y I shud remain under law and not under grace 4 wch Christ died 4? Pls be honest fellow xtians..........are we still under the law?

Romans 3:19. WHATSOEVER the law says, it says to THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW, that is the Jews. Romans 6:14, you are not under the law BUT UNDER GRACE.

Alwaystrue:

We have discussed about law and grace before now have we not? However you will do the study yourself, read in context especally from Galatians 2:11-15 and understand:


Galatians 2:18-19
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

As I advised read the context and see that Paul was talking about Peter's hyprocrisy regarding his dealings with gentiles.

It is the Holy Spirit that will further explain to you (as a person who prides himself to be a bibe teacher) how someone THROUGH the LAW is DEAD to THE Law so one can live for God.
Thanks.






Matthew 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Look very well at both scriptures, Jesus said, he did not come to DESTROY the law and the prophets but to fulfill it for not one jot will pass from the law till heaven and earth pass away (NOT TILL HE DIES AND RISES UP).
Meaning while He lived on earth, Jesus fulfilled the law as it should and taught others the true meaning (expression and performance) of the law. He was the first person to fulfill it in its entirety and died taking away the curse, penalty and transgression of the law. ANd now everyone who believes in Him and receives the promise of the Holy Spirit MIGHT have the RIGHTEOUSNESS of the law fulfilled in them as well AS LONG AS THEY WALK IN THE SPIRIT (evidenced by the fruits).

Now the clincher below settles it all:


Romans 3:30-31
30 There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. 31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

I will let the Holy Spirit take up the rest in the readers.

So the Law is still being fulfilled? Funny how we use one part of the scripture to explain every other part. That we are still expecting the fufilment of all the promises of the scripture like the manifestation of the sons, the millenial reign and the coming down of the new Jerusalem, doesn't mean the Law and the prophets have not been fulfilled. Let me use this example, bible says in Isaiah that by his stripes we are healed, that is, by the stripes Jesus bore for us the promise for our healing is accomplished. Now, that christians still fall sick doesn't change that fact, if i begin to walk in my healing tomorrow, that doesn't mean I just fulfilled my healing, no I'm establishing the reality and manifestation of what Christ fulfilled.

And next time, don't look for translations that help you say what you want to say, check the original greek rendition, that is a more unbiased way to interprete scripture. The greek word there is establish not fulfil.

Daniel 9v24 'Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon the holy city, to finish transgression and to MAKE AN END of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to SEAL UP the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy'

This was what the angel told Daniel about the coming of the Messiah and what he will come to do. Notice I put 'make an end' and 'seal up' in cap, that's coz the same hebrew word was used for both which is to accomplish. Jesus has accomplished all scriptural prophecy even the ones we still seem to be looking forward to. The future manifestation of them isn't the fulfilment, it is the manifestation. The fulfilment is accomplished in Christ.

I maintain, righteousness is not fulfilled in us when we walk in the Spirit, if it is then its not a gift anymore. Righteousness is imputed unto me at new birth, ever before I learn the first thing about walking in the Spirit.if in never walk in the Spirit, I will still be as righteous as Jesus coz his righteousness is what he gives me. I walk in the Spirit to be perfect and grow up in all things into Christ's stature. Maybe this is another clash of semantics, what you call fulfil, I call manifestation of what has been fulfilled.

Paul wrote to the Colossians:

13 And you, being dead in your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He has made alive together with Him, having forgiven you all trespasses,

14 having wiped out the handwriting of requirements that was against us, which was contrary to us. And He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

15 Having disarmed principalities and powers, He made a public spectacle of them, triumphing over them in it.

Colossians 2:13-15 NKJV

Various Christian Bible commentators are of the opinion that the ‘handwriting of requirements that was against us’, referred to the ‘Tora’, or the first five books of the Bible. They perceive the Law of Moses as a heavy burden of demands and commandments that was ‘wiped out’ by Christ's death on the cross. Others conclude that the Ten Commandments, written by God's finger on tablets of stone, are therefore no longer valid.

The question is did Paul mean to say that God's Torah was nailed to the cross and is therefore no longer valid. If he did then he contradicts Jesus' words in Matthew 5:17 where Jesus explicitly says that He did NOT come to destroy the Law or the Prophets. The Greek word translated with ‘destroy’, literally means that it no longer functions and is no longer valid or binding.

To understand what Paul really meant in his letter to the Colossians, we need to look more closely at the Greek word ‘handwriting’.

The word for handwriting that Paul used in this text is the Greek word ‘cheirographon’. A ‘cheirographon’ is a handwritten official document.

We find an example of a handwritten official document in Deuteronomy 24:1-4 referring to a written certificate of divorce. This certificate describes the agreement that has been reached and is signed. In order to make the divorce official, a scribe was hired to write up the certificate of divorce, which was then signed by both parties involved. Mark 10:4 also refers to a certificate of divorce.

The word ‘cheirographon’, was also used for a handwritten acknowledgement or note of debt, something like an I.O.U. When the debt was paid in full, the ‘cheirographon’, was invalidated by piercing it with something sharp like a nail.

A ‘cheirographon’, was also used in the case of the crucifixion or punishment of a criminal. All the charges of which the person had been found guilty (frequently a whole list) were written on a piece of parchment and nailed to the cross on which the person convicted of those crimes would be crucified. Everyone could then see why he was hanging there and what he had done to deserve such a cruel punishment. This written indictment or accusation was called a ‘titlos’, in Latin. John used the word ‘titlos’, to describe the accusations that were hung on the cross on which Jesus hung (John 19:19). It was written in three different languages (John 19:20).

The accusation against Jesus was extraordinary: ‘King of the Jews’!

“And the inscription of His accusation was written above: THE KING OF THE JEWS.” (Mark 15:26).

It was the list of things of which the person was accused and found guilty that was nailed to the cross. Their crimes were listed and displayed. The list was a description of the things in which someone had broken the law, not the law itself.

Paul used this example to make it clear to us that the list of crimes, the handwriting of requirements that was against us, was nailed to the cross with Christ. Every accusation against us, has been paid for and dealt with and can no longer be used against us. Jesus has wiped out the things of which we are guilty and for which we should have been severely punished. He did not wipe out the law or the Torah. He wiped out our guilt.

U cannot be more clearer dan u ar nw on ur stand. In essence u ar still under d law and not under grace. If ur above analysis is true, I wonder d place of grace in christianity. I may not be gud in quoting scriptures as u, but I sure knw dat if it is by d deeds of d law, Paul said dat no one shall be saved, 4 all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God.

Justification by faith: does dis word ever cross ur mind? Dat xtians are not justify by keeping d law? And dat we are justified by faith? If indeed we are justified by d deeds of d law, wat den did Christ died 4? We are made righteous by puting faith in Christ, by believing in His ransome sacrifice, Paul made it clearer dat we are not under d law, but under grace! But den Paul cried out and asked: shall we continue in sin dat grace may abide! He said ''God forbid''

No one can please God by keeping d law. D righteousness God sees in us was imputed on us by Christ. D bible says dat by one man's sin(Adam) sin came into d world, even so shall by one man's righteousness(Christ) shall many be made righteous.

Obviously u are a pastor or a devoted xtian, but I knw dat am not under Torah(law) as u called it, am under grace, and am justified not by d deeds of d law, but by having faith in Christ. So if u claim dat u can be justified by keeping d law of Moses, u dnt need Jesus! Jesus and Moses are both mediators of d covenant, Moses only forshadowed d greater mediator which is Christ, but when Christ(our mediator) came, he fulfilled d law and d prophets. Dat is y we are not justified by keeping d law.

As u study more on d word of God, may Holy Spirit open ur heart to axept d devine provision of grace, den and only den can u be free from d law!

@Maxinumimpact,
When you keep saying we are justified by faith and our belief in Jesus, did it occur to you that it means from the day we were born into sin, and lived in sin, we have had charges, penalties and repercussions of sin already hanging on us to which Christ had 2000 years ago nailed to the cross so that those who BELIEVE in Him will have those sins washed away?
It is until we believe in Him that we can tap into the grace of washed away sin and have all charges of our sin washed away.

What happens after that?
Continue in sin? NOOO!

Now through the help of the Holy Spirit we now live in the Spirit exhibiting the fruit of love, joy, peace, patience, longsuffering, faithfulness, self-control etc against such there is no law because when you exhibit all these you can not hate God, have other gods, dishonour parents, covet your neighbours stuff, kill....you have fulfilled the law. That is what we are saying. Jesus set us free right from heart. And He gives us grace not as a liberty to sin but to help us NOT to sin (which is trangression of the law or lack of faith).

But it is a constant struggle such that many times you do what you do not want to do, and if we allow the flesh to rule us and we end up falling we can come before Him to ask for forgiveness (with godly sorrow that brings through repentance) because of the grace but think not that a Christian would sin and claim he is under the grace as such He is still free. That is what people believe today, so if people in Christ conceive sin in their heart so much that they even go ahead to lie, fornicate, covet, they claim there is grace (taking grace for license to sin).
The bible has said it, IF and only IF you are led by the SPIRIT are you NOT under the law as simple as that. Jesus does not condone sin, He did not fulfil the law so you can go on sinning claiming you are under grace.
He fulfils the righteousness of the law in those who believe in Him who do not walk after the flesh. Rom. 8:1-4. Jesus every walk and talk on earth was fulfilling the law for He was without sin, His death took away the charges of sin and ushered in the spirit to HELP us.

@ Alwaystrue

I've studied your doctrine and I think I now know where mine is clashing with yours. Three questions; answer them simply, simplicity removes ambiguity:

- When do we become redeemed from under the law? At new birth or after we start walking in the Spirit?

- When do we become righteous in the eyes of the Father? When we receive Christ by faith or after we stop walking in the flesh?

- When do we become guilt-free? At salvation or after we stop sinning?

- If the Holy Spirit helps me stop adultery, did he help me obey the law? Or he's living out the life of Christ through me?

There is no bo.oby trap, I promise. A straight forward, right-to-the-point answer to this question will help bolden the line that has been blurred in our argument.

ayoku777: @ Alwaystrue

I've studied your doctrine and I think I now know where mine is clashing with yours. Three questions; answer them simply, simplicity removes ambiguity:

- When do we become redeemed from under the law? At new birth or after we start walking in the Spirit?

- When do we become righteous in the eyes of the Father? When we receive Christ by faith or after we stop walking in the flesh?

- When do we become guilt-free? At salvation or after we stop sinning?

- If the Holy Spirit helps me stop adultery, did he help me obey the law? Or he's living out the life of Christ through me?

There is no bo.oby trap, I promise. A straight forward, right-to-the-point answer to this question will help bolden the line that has been blurred in our argument.

The top 3 questions have just one answer:

WHEN WE BELIEVE/HAVE FAITH IN JESUS CHRIST! It is present continuous.
The scriptures below answer the questions.


Galatians 5:18
But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Romans 8:1-2
There is therefore now no condemnation to them which are in Christ Jesus, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit. 2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death.

Romans 3:22
Namely, the righteousness of God which comes by believing with personal trust and confident reliance on Jesus Christ (the Messiah). [And it is meant] for all who believe. For there is no distinction,


Acts 13:38-39
38 Brothers, listen! We are here to proclaim that through this man Jesus there is forgiveness for your sins. 39 Everyone who believes in him is declared right with God—something the law of Moses could never do.


For number 4, The Holy Spirit is living the life of the one who fulfilled the law through you as such you too obey/fulfill the law. Romans 8:4. He helps you so that you do lust, covet or have bad thoughts by prompting and convicting you and as such you will not even think of commiting adultery as your mind is pure and renewed. Do you finally get my drift... That is the help.
However note that the choice is still ours to make whether to be convicted, led or not.



Your questions are answered through the Word. The below is just extra information.

Belief and faith in Jesus is continuous and not one off...if not, why did bible say the below:

Matthew 10:10-13
10 And many will turn away from me and betray and hate each other. 11 And many false prophets will appear and will deceive many people. 12 Sin will be rampant everywhere, and the love of many will grow cold. 13 But the one who endures to the end will be saved.


Philipians 2:12-13
12 Dear friends, you always followed my instructions when I was with you. And now that I am away, it is even more important. Work hard to show the results of your salvation, obeying God with deep reverence and fear.

13 For God is working in you, giving you the desire and the power to do what pleases him.

Jude 1:5
So I want to remind you, though you already know these things, that Jesus first rescued the nation of Israel from Egypt,
but later he destroyed those who did not remain faithful.



Let us remain faithful, keep the belief and show evidence of our faith and love for God by walking in the spirit, enjoying his grace through His Son Jesus Christ, hence fulfilling the righteousnes of the law through Christ and living in deeper revelation, joy, freedom and total victory and dominion through Christ.


I John 5:1-3
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has become a child of God. And everyone who loves the Father loves his children, too. 2 We know we love God’s children if we love God and obey his commandments. 3 Loving God means keeping his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome.
4 For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith.

Keeping the commandments in this case means the way Jesus kept it and said it should be kept through the help of The Holy Spirit. Finito.

una don start again with long arguement on law and grace abi?
I thought alwaytrue had ended the whole arguement when he clearly and biblically argue that he who works by the law of the spirit or rather by the spirit has himself fulfilled the law of the flesh.
So my dear friends what are we argueing about?

Ubenedictus: una don start again with long arguement on law and grace abi?
I thought alwaytrue had ended the whole arguement when he clearly and biblically argue that he who works by the law of the spirit or rather by the spirit has himself fulfilled the law of the flesh.
So my dear friends what are we argueing about?

Not exactly. I think alwaystrue is somehow still holding on to the mosaic law.

Zikkyy:

Not exactly. I think alwaystrue is somehow still holding on to the mosaic law.

She is more scripturally sound than you are.

Bidam: She is more scripturally sound than you are.

I wonder what this gat to do with a christian that decides to subject him/her self to the mosaic law. You think the ticket to heaven is based on having first class in bible knowledge?

Alwaystrue:

lation, joy, freedom and total victory and dominion through Christ.


I John 5:1-3
1 Everyone who believes that Jesus is the Christ has become a child of God. And everyone who loves the Father loves his children, too. 2 We know we love God’s children if we love God and obey his commandments. 3 Loving God means keeping his commandments, and his commandments are not burdensome.
4 For every child of God defeats this evil world, and we achieve this victory through our faith.

Keeping the commandments in this case means the way Jesus kept it and said it should be kept through the help of The Holy Spirit. Finito.

error error...This book of John you quoted from will further confuse you into legalism. Stay within the doctrines to the church and you are fine.

@bolded, Jesus lived under the law and 90% of his earthly ministry was about the Jewish nation.It is not in any man to leave like Christ cos Christ didnt have the sin nature like you and I. If we could live like Christ, He wouldn't have to die for our sins (even the ones we are yet to commit).

shdemidemi:

error error...This book of John you quoted from will further confuse you into legalism. Stay within the doctrines to the church and you are fine.

@bolded, Jesus lived under the law and 90% of his earthly ministry was about the Jewish nation.It is not in any man to leave like Christ cos Christ didnt have the sin nature like you and I. If we could live like Christ, He wouldn't have to die for our sins (even the ones we are yet to commit).

Very funny. I quote from the bible, you say error.? Doctrines to the church.?

That is where you are getting yourself boxed into a corner. You live like Jesus through the help of the Holy Spirit.

Those who say they live in God should live their lives as Jesus did. I John 2:6

I would advice you study your bible better.

^^^^ quoting the bible haphazardly is wrong,if you rightly divide the word you would realize John's audience are not the church. His gospel was to the 12 tribes of Israel.

Read this post, I believe you might want to look deeper in to the issue of dividing the word of truth
https://www.nairaland.com/1293496/bible-confusing

shdemidemi: ^^^^ quoting the bible haphazardly is wrong,if you rightly divide the word you would realize John's audience are not the church. His gospel was to the 12 tribes of Israel.

If there are two gospels like you claim how come everyone is using only one bible?

ayoku777:

So the Law is still being fulfilled? Funny how we use one part of the scripture to explain every other part. That we are still expecting the fufilment of all the promises of the scripture like the manifestation of the sons, the millenial reign and the coming down of the new Jerusalem, doesn't mean the Law and the prophets have not been fulfilled. Let me use this example, bible says in Isaiah that by his stripes we are healed, that is, by the stripes Jesus bore for us the promise for our healing is accomplished. Now, that christians still fall sick doesn't change that fact, if i begin to walk in my healing tomorrow, that doesn't mean I just fulfilled my healing, no I'm establishing the reality and manifestation of what Christ fulfilled.

And next time, don't look for translations that help you say what you want to say, check the original greek rendition, that is a more unbiased way to interprete scripture. The greek word there is establish not fulfil.

Daniel 9v24 'Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon the holy city, to finish transgression and to MAKE AN END of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to SEAL UP the vision and the prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy'

This was what the angel told Daniel about the coming of the Messiah and what he will come to do. Notice I put 'make an end' and 'seal up' in cap, that's coz the same hebrew word was used for both which is to accomplish. Jesus has accomplished all scriptural prophecy even the ones we still seem to be looking forward to. The future manifestation of them isn't the fulfilment, it is the manifestation. The fulfilment is accomplished in Christ.

I maintain, righteousness is not fulfilled in us when we walk in the Spirit, if it is then its not a gift anymore. Righteousness is imputed unto me at new birth, ever before I learn the first thing about walking in the Spirit.if in never walk in the Spirit, I will still be as righteous as Jesus coz his righteousness is what he gives me. I walk in the Spirit to be perfect and grow up in all things into Christ's stature. Maybe this is another clash of semantics, what you call fulfil, I call manifestation of what has been fulfilled.

my broda , wetin person no go see for Nl. If i have to fulfill the law, it means Christ failed, nmn, it is well sha, abeg make una continue, one thing i thank God is that many ppl are coming to the knowledge of the truth. Peace and love.

Alwaystrue:

We have discussed about law and grace before now have we not? However you will do the study yourself, read in context especally from Galatians 2:11-15 and understand:


Galatians 2:18-19
18 For if I build again the things which I destroyed, I make myself a transgressor.
19 For I through the law am dead to the law, that I might live unto God.

As I advised read the context and see that Paul was talking about Peter's hyprocrisy regarding his dealings with gentiles.

It is the Holy Spirit that will further explain to you (as a person who prides himself to be a bibe teacher) how someone THROUGH the LAW is DEAD to THE Law so one can live for God.
Thanks.






Matthew 5:17-18
17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.

Romans 8:4
That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
Look very well at both scriptures, Jesus said, he did not come to DESTROY the law and the prophets but to fulfill it for not one jot will pass from the law till heaven and earth pass away (NOT TILL HE DIES AND RISES UP).
Meaning while He lived on earth, Jesus fulfilled the law as it should and taught others the true meaning (expression and performance) of the law. He was the first person to fulfill it in its entirety and died taking away the curse, penalty and transgression of the law. ANd now everyone who believes in Him and receives the promise of the Holy Spirit MIGHT have the RIGHTEOUSNESS of the law fulfilled in them as well AS LONG AS THEY WALK IN THE SPIRIT (evidenced by the fruits).

Now the clincher below settles it all:


Romans 3:30-31
30 There is only one God, and he makes people right with himself only by faith, whether they are Jews or Gentiles. 31 Well then, if we emphasize faith, does this mean that we can forget about the law? Of course not! In fact, only when we have faith do we truly fulfill the law.

I will let the Holy Spirit take up the rest in the readers.

i thought this ended it

some christians still think christianity only "added jesus" to judaism while retaining all or some of the law requirements and works. this means such people are not saved for christ is the end of the law, Romans 10:4. when you are in christ, the mosaic law had ended for such. think about Romans 10:4 n allow the spirit of god to minister to you.

Romans 10:4 refers to christ as "the end of the law," which is similar to Paul's statement that believers are no longer "under the law" (Rm 6:14). Christians do not relate to God through the old covenant God made with Israel at Mt. Sinai through Moses, but through the new covenant He made at the cross through Christ's blood (Jer 31:31-34; Lk 22:20; Heb 8:8-12).

WAIT O GYS!! ARE THE TEN COMMANDMENTS GOD'S LAWS OR MOSES'.