Joagbaje:

But I want to clearly state that there's no fraud nor fraudulent intention . The video was posted for Gods glory

SO WHAT WENT WRONG. . . .?

Dude we read how u were ranting in da past with John. Kindly do same here.

striktlymi:


Now you got me all confused!

Are you accusing him of being a "fake pastor" or you want to accuse him of being fraudulent?

what is d difference?

Joagbaje:

We record several testimonies and healings every week. So a miracle is not a strange occurrence . Probably that gave room for my little carelessness . LEt me explain JEFF case then you can judge if theres any evil intention .. . .

You sound like the woman who was asked whether she attended church & her reply was :I tie my headscarf na. Aren't you a rather shameless caricature of a human being?

christemmbassey:
what is d difference?

How does a dumb fellow tell da difference between fake n fraudulent pastor? U see how daft he is?

O ga o. This Agbaje should be thrown in famgbe water.

Topgainer:







That's the problem with many Pastors inventing all sorts to give God glory. Must we package lies to give God Glory?
Nobody should try to move faster that God. When God decides to keep silence for a while can Pastors respect that and humbly refer these sick to the Hospitals while prayers can continue there. It doesn't in anyway diminish the Pastor. God does his miracles the way He wants and the time he wants it perfected

Well, my friend, pius fraud is not a new invention at all.
It was very crucial and instrumental to the rise of the christian faith.

Father Eusabius of Caearea (Ad 314) was the acclaimed grandaddy of pious fraud, and he justified it by saying, " if others are doing it, why can't we do it as well?"

Apostle Paul had been his inspiration when he wrote " If I lie for the glory of god, should also be punished as a sinner?

Now "Pastor" is forming humble.

When people were telling him the truth, he and his gang of fraudsters were insulting everybody and going gangsta.

Now you have people forming SAN on "pastor's" behalf. while "pastor" is wisely watching so as not to say too much since it appears someone has some really serious and damning evidence and is waiting for the slightest mis-yarn.



Truly pride goes before . . .

alienvirus:
O ga o. This Agbaje should be thrown in famgbe water.

They been doing it a long time. Intelligent pple r here to help them out.

striktlymi:


At last we are getting somewhere.

You accuse him of the bold?

What evidence do you have?

Don't tell me to go watch the video...that would mean you know nothing about the investigation that went on.

you don start ya own? Na so Joa do go enter one chance.

Joagbaje just proved something interesting tonight. When God wants to expose you.. You'll just be like one ugly fowl that they soaked in iced water

StarBoard:

You must think we are lunatics here.
When Joe was bragging of healing the fellow in question and abusing everybody else who countered that claim, the Jeff fellow was not deceiving him.
Now that there is evidence contrary to the said claim you come here spinning dead yarns about deceiving.

When Jesus cleansed the 10 lepers snd only one returned, he asked the returnee to show himself to the priest to certify that he indeed was clean. How come "pastor" joe couldnt verify that the said claim of healing but went about shouting down any dissenting voice to the healing claim with the approval of his cohorts?

I don't know why you are sounding like this, am yet to read the said thread. I am not here to defend Joe and I never said I believe him. I only said "I want to believe him" that's if he can give me convincing answers to the questions I asked.
From the excerpts I read so far, he sounded very sure of the healing and the guy himself. Why is he now telling us some cock and bull story?

I will give a one time detail explanation in 20 mins. My battery ran out on the other device, thanks for your patience

Boss13:


PLEASE CAN PEOPLE STOP THIS NONSENSE. ARE WE GOING TO BLAME JEFF (ANONYMOUS MAN LOOKING FOR BREAD) OR A PASTOR WHO CLAIMED HE HEALED HIM WITHOUT VERIFICATION AND EVEN BOASTED ABOUT IT.

This is exactly the point bros.

T. B clown Joshua's stupidity causes the horrific deaths of 115, they blame a mysterious plane, they blam an invisible bomber, they blame the devil, they just blame anything at all other than themselves.

This is the murder of reason.

Joagbaje:
I will give a one time detail explanation in 20 mins. My battery ran out on the other device, thanks for your patience

like i care,better breeze don blow fowl yansh open. Pastor,i want you to do something for me. Bow your head,not in prayer.... But in shame.

SalC:
I don't know why you are sounding like this, am yet to read the said thread. I am not here to defend Joe and I never said I believe him. I only said "I want to believe him" that's if he can give me convincing answers to the questions I asked.
From the excerpts I read so far, he sounded very sure of the healing and the guy himself. Why is he now telling us some cock and bull story?

Take your time and go through the threads in question. See the near gutter language pastor was using.

The evidence produced by Sir John is damning.

You want to believe someone who has clearly used fraudulent means to support a claim he made by saying he was decieved.
And I say that in itself,given the previous incedents on thid matter,is an insult to those of us who know that this "miracle"was staged.

Joagbaje:
I will give a one time detail explanation in 20 mins. My battery ran out on the other device, thanks for your patience

Dude, are u okay? How many people r u gonna give a one time explanation? U mean u gonna give a one time explanation n don't wait to answer when your assss is being scrutinized n questioned? U dare not dude! !!

Lol, before Jo starts editing

Joagbaje:

Why don't you sponsor her ? Why should I waste money on someone who doesn't believe . I preach the gospel , and signs and wonders accompany it . I don't need to prove anything to a mocker . I presented an HIV case that was healed here . I dare all of you to investigate it . Go to the federal medical centre . And expose my lie . I somehow think you guys knows I'm right but pride will not allow you to admit . If not somebody should have investigated this testimony .

https://www.nairaland.com/193649/truth-christ-embassy-healing-school/69#26798316

Joagbaje:
I will give a one time detail explanation in 20 mins. My battery ran out on the other device, thanks for your patience

may I humbly ask that you spare us.
Thanks.
This your humility is in stark contrast with your attitude on the previous threads.

SirJohn, please let's end this.

Jo is so sure of the healing.

Joagbaje:


Simply call the guy up take a trip as you promised . Go with him to the hospitals the record should be there I suppose. Remember you said you will travel anywhere to verify a case of healing. Why are you changing the conditions. I simply present a case. It's left for you to open my bombom and prove me wrong.

A brief introduction to pious fraud.

http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pious_fraud



" Pious fraud is a term applied to describe fraudulent practices used to advance a religious cause or belief. This type of fraud may, by apologists, be explained as a case of the ends justify the means, in that if people are saved from eternal damnation then it's perfectly fine to tell a few fibs and perform some magic tricks. This is line of argumentation is prone to Outcome bias. To draw a non-religious comparison - pious fraud could be compared to a parent using the threat of Santa withholding presents, or delivering a lump of coal, if Santa should hear that the child in question has been naughty.
It may at times be difficult to differentiate pious fraud, which requires intent to deceive, from delusion and ignorance. Such a decision must be based on a case-by-case evaluation of the claims being made, the persons making the claims, and certainly the intent behind the claims."

In one notable example, James Randi learned that Popoff was using a hidden earpiece in to which his wife was broadcasting information on the stricken people who attended his revivals in the hope of being cured.[1]

Given that miracles typically come with little evidence to support the temporary suspension of the known laws of the universe, miracles are a rich source of pious fraud. This not to say that all miracles are by default fraud, since many can be attributed to delusional behaviour or ignorance, but some stand out as being particularly questionable.

Modification and misattribution of scripture

"So, do any of you fisherman and tax collectors know how to write high quality non-contradictory books in Greek? Oh bugger!"
Many books of the New Testament are named for what uninformed believers take to be the names of the authors, yet biblical and historical scholarship indicate that the gospels were written by unknown authors and ascribed to disciples and similarly important figures in Christianity. Other books of the New Testament, traditionally ascribed to important figures, are also shown to be later additions or misattributions.[3]
There's an obvious advantage in attributing a work to a famous name, since texts purporting to document the life of Jesus certainly carry more weight if its claimed that they were written by a drinking buddy of Jesus.[4]
Alterations over the years also provide signs of changes being made to deal with scriptural contradictions and to reduce or emphasise points and beliefs important to the writer. Paul strongly emphasised the message that salvation was available to all, including gentiles. While some gospels portray Jesus as being sent solely for the "lost sheep of Israel", such as in Matthew 15:21-28, St. Paul's writings discard Jewish tradition - such as the requirement to effectively become a Jew before becoming a Christian - in favour of offering salvation to gentiles, describing himself as "the apostle of the gentiles" in Romans 1:13. It was no doubt it was easier to market Christianity when it didn't involve the partial removal of the penis.
It is also notable that the nature of Jesus changes throughout the Bible. Early gospels, such as Mark, portray Jesus more as an anointed man than a being of divine origin - in a similar sense to previous "sons of god" such as King David.[5] In John 1:1-15 Jesus is described as being the embodiment of logos - present with God at the beginning of all things, through whom the world was created. Mark lacks an account of the virgin birth - which other authors included in their gospels. A messiah of human origin, although annointed by God, is more consistent with Jewish tradition, so the divine aspects may have appeared in an attempt to appeal to the demographic that prefers its messiahs to be of divine origin.

Joagbaje:
I will give a one time detail explanation in 20 mins. My battery ran out on the other device, thanks for your patience

Stop it. It's becoming pathetic to watch now.

You just got exposed. Eat the humble pie and stop your long winded explanation that does nothing to counteract the damning evidence.

Jo stakes a whole half a million. He's damn sure of his claims.

Joagbaje: Don't just sit on your computer typing rubish john .i sense you're afraid .You know this testimony will rubish all the nonsense you've been publishing . I posted the guys number . Why not find out . Why haven't you made an attempt . It's not my duty to run errand for you . If I post medical record here you will call say I forged it so john I challenge you in the name of Jesus whom you're denying . Use your half a million naira to prove me wrong.

Secondly if you a able to prove that this guy wasn't healed of HIV . I will give you half a million.

This is an open challenge john.

The million dollar question is, why will Jo stake so much on a claim he never verified?

The answer seems obvious: he has no idea how tithers sweat so hard to get the money he's willing to dash out.

rationalmind:
Lol, before Jo starts editing



https://www.nairaland.com/193649/truth-christ-embassy-healing-school/69#26798316

The above quote is why I said he sounded too sure. He wanted everyone to believe it was a verified miracle. That's why its surprising to know he never set his eyes on the medical report nor did he step his foot on the said Federal medical centre.

Hmm.....

@rationalmind,
Please dont stress yourself.

We already know what they will say. The threads in question need no further inquisition.

If he likes let him edit or delete his posts. We already know what has taken place.

Why wont he stage miracle when his oga at the top has made a name and living doing same?

We r not rejoicing at the fall or fakery of another christian brother but people like Joagbaje were told to us long ago n we must protect d household of faith. Crafty men like Joe r turning many in da faith to atheist n back into da world. I wonder y da heck his asss boi Gombs is mute now but would have been ranting in da past.

rationalmind:
Jo stakes a whole half a million. He's damn sure of his claims.



The million dollar question is, why will Jo stake so much on a claim he never verified?

The answer seems obvious. He has no idea how tithers sweat so hard to get the money he's willing to dash out.

Same question I've been asking.....but your answer though

SalC:
The above quote is why I said he sounded too sure. He wanted everyone to believe it was a verified miracle. That's why its surprising to know he never set his eyes on the medical report nor did he step his foot on the said Federal medical centre.

Hmm.....

Dude if he was sure then, y can't he b too sure now with new evidence standing in front of him. All u have to do is compare as he was sure then n what is in front of him now n use your god given mind to c d dam falsehood

Let's get it straight now

So Joeagbaje how soon are you paying SirJohn since he has proven you wrong?

SalC:
Let's get it straight now

So Joeagbaje how soon are you paying SirJohn since he has proven you wrong?

now we talking. 500000 ain't no dam joke. He boasted about it though.

flourishG:
We r not rejoicing at the fall or fakery of another christian brother but people like Joagbaje were told to us long ago n we must protect d household of faith. Crafty men like Joe r turning many in da faith to atheist n back into da world. I wonder y da heck his asss boi Gombs is mute now but would have been ranting in da past.

DING!!!!
How will they listen?
In their minds as "pastors" they cannot subject themselves to counsel from "lesser" or "common" folks like us. Their proud, arrogant disposition would not conform to the meek and lowly estate of those of us who cannot or are not "pastors".

He goes ahead to stake money like a gambler, something that should be unheard of in Christian circles just to prove his point on a false claim.

For me the more I think about it Joe is not even worth a listen. He is a gluttonous deceiver and a carnal charlatan. if joeagbaje is a pastor then I'm better off by myself.

SalC:
The above quote is why I said he sounded too sure. He wanted everyone to believe it was a verified miracle. That's why its surprising to know he never set his eyes on the medical report nor did he step his foot on the said Federal medical centre.

Hmm.....

One begins to wonder how come strictlymi absolves him of all blame.

its nearly 30 minutes since pastor promised acdefence.
or is this one going the way of the "robust" defence promised by his cohort a while ago?