^not confused tbaba. it doesn't appear you get it. But instead of back n fourth brouhaha, you should go for practical approach. Start doing "tassawuf". It's there God unveil things.

I think the reason you cling on Jinn is because of preconceived notion...like essay written by ibn Taymmiya(r). Jinns are not in that quarter(duas). Jinn work with incantation called 'ofo' in Yoruba not dua. Dua (ism-llah) doesn't bring evil forces. That's another misconception is you need. Individual has different approach of explaining it.

But if you insist they are Jinn, at least muslim ones , then you may need to check your aqeeda. Allah says that where Qur'an or God's name is being mentioned, Angels descend is that arena. There is no mentioned of Jinn in that verse. Qur'an also used 'RUH' variably to describe unseen forces. To say these different folks are lying is laughable. These men are far practical than you. If i were you i would do independent unbiased research on Ruhaniyah.

I honestly don't want to argue over this as admonished. Even "tranquility" you experience is a being. I don't have problem understanding this subject at all. "Egbere" for instance , exist in yoruba land but Qur'an doesn't mention them.

Do you even know that if you place Quran on your lap while reciting Quran, within 30 mins, your legs get weak gradually. Is that Jinn too?. Just try this simple one. Place Quran (arabic) on your feet every time you read Quran and return here to tell us what or how you feel. Research continues......

Empiree:
2days ago i thought about incident that happened in 1990 on our way from Lagos in 505 vehicle. I couldnt recollect how the whole thing happened. I was much younger. So i called this man yesterday to satisfy my curiosity and he remembers. Mashallah! I truly enjoyed as he continued telling me the story. He said "My son also brought it to my attention few days before this past Ramadan"....a day we will never forget. It happened so fast.

We were coming from Lagos to Ijebu. His son drove the car. He was a teenager at the time and just learned driving. Anyways, instead of him to drive short cut to our destination after arrived Ijebu, he loved driving through downtown....that's, Folagbade. It was daylight. He accidentally hit marked police sergeant luxury car in front of him.

Both he and his father stepped off the car. Police also stepped out and walked angrily towards us with baton. This was during military regime. By the time he's couple of feet close to us, wallahi, Ruhaniyah grabbed or gripped him. It was like electric shock. He was shaking standing. I was sitting in the car but did not quiet understood what happened. It was yesterday i asked him. He said "Awon Ruhaniyah ni". They grabbed him. But he told me yesterday that we are the guilty party because we hit him. But police didnt do anything. They picked raise after seeing what happened.

I also raised tbaba concern with him just to hear what he had to say, he said dont argue with them. They have no idea. Ruhaniyah are not Jinn. They are purely to serve pious muslims and teach them Quran. So the sheik in the video i posted earlier was right. Ruhaniyah teaches waliy of Allah, they make lots of salawat on them and Rosul. This man confirms that as well. He said he would recite Quran and teach him what he knew not. I was just shaking my head yesterday as he narrates. This is really deep. But he just doesnt talk about it. I do.

I asked him again yesterday for surety purposes how he came about Ruhaniyah?. He reaffirmed to me that it was borne out of Sura Yasin (too much of recitation). He also mentioned (dua) Jabbar I posted up there. It's about 62 pages. Jabbar is "Oriki Olohun". He said i thought you used to recite it with us?. Alas! I probably used to recite 2 pages. He then recited it on the phone with me. wallahi i was enjoying it. It exceedingly praises Allah. And Allah 'smiles' hearing reciter. If you recite Jabbar coupled with Yasin, with your purpose(s), wallahi liazm, you will never languish in poverty. This i know for sure.This kind of thing strengthens faith.

He did say (in agreement with tbaba's concern) that there are indeed those who invoke Jinn (ofo-incantation) and Jinn give them condition like telling someone to go off n.k. e/d and run down the street to get power. He told me this yesterday. He said those are haram. Thats worshiping them and it's shirk. But Ruhaniyah are borne out of Dua/dhikr to aid mumin.

The reason i keep bringing this up is to kind of clear doubt about folks like tbaba who somehow doubt this issue. I wanted to be sure what i experienced was accurate. So i reminded him things i have said here. He said "you right" referring to me. This is not a matter of 'show off', rather to proof that we have power of mercy, protection and complete guidance in islam.

I do believe that it's not proper to just chant Allah's name for purpose of seeking wealth. This is what i presumed Sino's Ustaz did. The man told me yesterday that purpose(sincere niyyah) should be seeking knowledge of islam NOT money. It is not haram to do that but it's just not wise. He said if you say you want money, you may be buried (covered) in your room with money. That the person may be killed like that. Thats not healthy. Sino's Alfa was lucky. I also asked why many dont recognize importance of Sura Yasin?...he said "what they dont know they dont know. Just dont argue with them. Didnt you see wonders of Yasin when you were here?" I smiled.

"Wetin concern agbero with overload? " Are there other creatures of Allah apart from Man, Jinn, Angels, Plants and Animals? Yes.

Is it our assignment to go looking for them or seeking to interact with them for any reason (no matter how noble) whatsoever?

No.

tbaba1234:
If ruhaniyah are from duas and recitation, then there would be mention of this from early muslims. The prophet is more religious than any of us, yet we are not told of ruhaniyah from any text.

I would argue that they would have been more mention of them in the early days.

You should have asked the shiekh for historical precedent.

You know how people beautify something that is doubtful to make it look beautiful and pristine. You might as well start looking for "helpful elves" with the way Empiree is polishing his beliefs.

AlBaqir:


tbaba 1234, "Ruhaniyah" for Muhammad (peace be on him and his household)? Nah! He was strengthened with what is better than Ruhaniyah, i.e Ruhu Qudus. When he walk, sleep, speak, fight (in the battle-field), work etc even right from his cradle, the best of the angels surrounds and aid him by the command of Allah.

Bro. You rely and attach too much on documents as if everything about everything on everything is documented. How many great spiritual experience of the salafs are difficult to explain in writing!

Qur'an talks about "sakina and forces we cannot see" helping the Prophet (peace be on him and his household) and the believers on many occasions. Surprisingly, none of them (the sahaba) except few was able to describe the "feel" of sakina or the nature of these unseen forces. Who would narration describe these?I

Even Maryam (a non-prophet) was being visited by angels. Qur'an describe two angels, one on the right and the other on the left, assigned for every human for specific purpose. Hadith describe a state of a Mu'min who worship devotedly for 40days and guard himself from sinning: implication is "Allah" will become his hands, eyes, mouth etc whereby his deeds, speech etc will become perfect.

Ahadith highlight the manifestations of our obligatory ibaadat will brings out beautiful creatures while that of evil deeds will brings out horrible things in qabr vis-a-vis barzakh.

So, this is your basis for leaving sincere prayers and faith in Allah for "mythical" beings that would perform "miracles" for you?

#Pathetic

tbaba1234:
I am not yoruba.

What I am asking for is simple, historical precedent.

Sino said his teacher called them 'muslim jinn'.

You had said earlier that they are not jinn or angel.

Now this man says 'lower angel'.

What is it exactly?? Are you just guessing?? Pure confusion.

The more plausible thing to me, is a jinn.

Why would I be chasing spirits about when I have Allah to pray to?

Why would I be chasing spirits when I have human beings to socialise with?

Empiree, you are chasing shadows dude.

maclatunji:


So, this is your basis for leaving sincere prayers and faith in Allah for "mythical" beings that would perform "miracles" for you?

#Pathetic

E be like say you are just in the mood to comment. Anything. Your reply doesn't make any sense to my quote.

Honestly, I think this discussion about Ruhaniyah should have stop because people decided to choose what they want and see whatsoever they want to see.
@Tbaba1234, I think it's not too good to term/label whatever you haven't read about in books nor experience nor heard about from your Ustadhs 'rubbish'.
Because you haven't read about Ruhaniyah in books nor from your Ustadhs doesn't mean they don't exist.To people that have experience them, they are real and exist.

@Empiree, I feel you dear brother.Trying your best to make Tbaba1234 see that Ruhaniyah exists.Well brother, life itself is a choice the brother has perceived them/stories like that to be 'rubbish' right from his childhood as he said.So there's little you can do, well that's his opinions and he doesn't expect everybody to buy them.
I think the brother has made up his mind not to believe Ruhaniyah exists because they aren't in books of Hadith and hence, to him they are rubbish.

My point is that sometimes experience plays an important role in lives of men.Here is an hadith that says tranquility descends on a man when reading the Qu'ran.

Narrated Al-Bara' bin 'Azib: A man recited Surat-al- Kahf (in his prayer) and in the house there was a (riding) animal which got frightened and started jumping. The man finished his prayer with Taslim, but behold! A mist or a cloud hovered over him. He informed the Prophet of that and the Prophet said, "O so-and-so! Recite, for this (mist or cloud) was a sign of peace descending for the recitation of Quran.[Sahih Al-Bukhari Book 56, Hadith Number 811]
This is a man that recited the Qu'ran and clouds hover over him.We today do recite Surah Al-Kafh almost every friday, how many of us have feels the tranquility that man feels? Just for once?

Was there any record that Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) felt the same? Doesn't that mean the man is 'more spiritual' than Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household)? No, not in any manner.The Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) is the pious of men, yet some things were experienced by his companions which he doesn't experience and doesn't in any manner means his companions supersede him.
Some actions were done by his companions which he never did and he wasn't against them same with some experiences.

Another example.
Narrated Jabir: I heard the Prophet saying, "The Throne (of Allah) shook at the death of Sad bin Muadh." Through another group of narrators, Jabir added, "I heard the Prophet : saying, 'The Throne of the Beneficent shook because of the death of Sad bin Muadh[Sahih Al-Bukhari Book 58, Hadith Number 147]


Has there not been the above hadith, if I had told Tbaba1234 that there was a great noble Sheik here in Ibadan that died and the earth shook when he was lowered into the grave(The story is true), he may not have believe me and his reasons may be that there was no records of such for the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household).
His death doesn't brought about the shaking of earth nor there were records that notable companions deaths' shook the earth.
But does that mean Sa'ad Bin Mua'adh is greater than Muhammad(pbuh)? No, because the throne of Allah shook as claimed by that hadith doesn't mean he's greater.

In the same vein, because the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) doesn't experience Ruhaniyah doesn't mean they don't exist and AlBaqir gave a succinct reply to that.Because they aren't historical stories of Ruhaniyah doesn't mean they don't exist.

Brother Sino's story about his Ustadh shows pure Jinn at work, how can you be making du'a unclad? There are stories that if someone wants to pass his exams he should recite some acclaimed 'du'as' at certain time in the midnight nakedly.A brother I know of did so, he ran mad few days afterwards.

Brother Empiree's stories doesn't in any manner talk about making du'a unclad nor making du'a in toilet at a specific time, what he emphasizes on was reciting Surah Yasin and Adhkars in large quantities and not unclad before you can encounter these creatures known as Ruhaniyahs.These creatures are borne out of du'as as he said.

There are great Sheiks which their spiritual lives can't in any manner to compare to ours.

AlBaqir,I think I dare not to talk about some stories concerning the spiritual lives of great Sheiks in Yorubaland.I would be termed as 'extremist' or 'Ahlu Bidiah'.

lanrexlan:
Honestly, I think this discussion about Ruhaniyah should have stop because people decided to choose what they want and see whatsoever they want to see.
@Tbaba1234, I think it's not too good to term/label whatever you haven't read about in books nor experience nor heard about from your Ustadhs 'rubbish'.
Because you haven't read about Ruhaniyah in books nor from your Ustadhs doesn't mean they don't exist.To people that have experience them, they are real and exist.

@Empiree, I feel you dear brother.Trying your best to make Tbaba1234 see that Ruhaniyah exists.Well brother, life itself is a choice the brother has perceived them/stories like that to be 'rubbish' right from his childhood as he said.So there's little you can do, well that's his opinions and he doesn't expect everybody to buy them.
I think the brother has made up his mind not to believe Ruhaniyah exists because they aren't in books of Hadith and hence, to him they are rubbish.

My point is that sometimes experience plays an important role in lives of men.Here is an hadith that says tranquility descends on a man when reading the Qu'ran.

Narrated Al-Bara' bin 'Azib: A man recited Surat-al- Kahf (in his prayer) and in the house there was a (riding) animal which got frightened and started jumping. The man finished his prayer with Taslim, but behold! A mist or a cloud hovered over him. He informed the Prophet of that and the Prophet said, "O so-and-so! Recite, for this (mist or cloud) was a sign of peace descending for the recitation of Quran.[Sahih Al-Bukhari Book 56, Hadith Number 811]
This is a man that recited the Qu'ran and clouds hover over him.We today do recite Surah Al-Kafh almost every friday, how many of us have feels the tranquility that man feels? Just for once?

Was there any record that Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) felt the same? Doesn't that mean the man is 'more spiritual' than Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household)? No, not in any manner.The Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) is the pious of men, yet some things were experienced by his companions which he doesn't experience and doesn't in any manner means his companions supersede him.
Some actions were done by his companions which he never did and he wasn't against them same with some experiences.

Another example.
Narrated Jabir: I heard the Prophet saying, "The Throne (of Allah) shook at the death of Sad bin Muadh." Through another group of narrators, Jabir added, "I heard the Prophet : saying, 'The Throne of the Beneficent shook because of the death of Sad bin Muadh[Sahih Al-Bukhari Book 58, Hadith Number 147]


Has there not been the above hadith, if I had told Tbaba1234 that there was a great noble Sheik here in Ibadan that died and the earth shook when he was lowered into the grave(The story is true), he may not have believe me and his reasons may be that there was no records of such for the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household).
His death doesn't brought about the shaking of earth nor there were records that notable companions deaths' shook the earth.
But does that mean Sa'ad Bin Mua'adh is greater than Muhammad(pbuh)? No, because the throne of Allah shook as claimed by that hadith doesn't mean he's greater.

In the same vein, because the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) doesn't experience Ruhaniyah doesn't mean they don't exist and AlBaqir gave a succinct reply to that.Because they aren't historical stories of Ruhaniyah doesn't mean they don't exist.

Brother Sino's story about his Ustadh shows pure Jinn at work, how can you be making du'a unclad? There are stories that if someone wants to pass his exams he should recite some acclaimed 'du'as' at certain time in the midnight nakedly.A brother I know of did so, he ran mad few days afterwards.

Brother Empiree's stories doesn't in any manner talk about making du'a unclad nor making du'a in toilet at a specific time, what he emphasizes on was reciting Surah Yasin and Adhkars in large quantities and not unclad before you can encounter these creatures known as Ruhaniyahs.These creatures are borne out of du'as as he said.

There are great Sheiks which their spiritual lives can't in any manner to compare to ours.

AlBaqir,I think I dare not to talk about some stories concerning the spiritual lives of great Sheiks in Yorubaland.I would be termed as 'extremist' or 'Ahlu Bidiah'.

Above, sums it all.

kazlaw2000:
@tbaba. By Allaah, i have also gone around, lately to ask alfas about these Ruhaniyyah and they affirmed what @Empiree has been saying. These are real life experiences. I was told every aayah of the holy Quraan, every adhkaar has a khaadim that is in charge of it. If you cling onto it tenaciously by oft chanting it, you will encounter the khaadim

.Mashallah!, the man i was talking about said same @bold last Saturday. He said each Surah has Ruhaniyah that emanates from it. It is up to them (Ruhaniyah) if they want to talk to you. I guess that depends on effort put into it. They would say to you "Salam Alaikum abdullah".

The man even said Ruhaniyah will praise you beyond salams then ask what you want from your Rub(Allah). At some point, when you get serious with dua, you hear your doors opening and closing. Thats them sending salawat on you. I described to tbaba1234 earlier in this post. Looks like he doesnt get it. It's on p.5

Hey Tbaba1234, when you do sit and reflect on the dua Yasin and reach certain levels in your recitation, if you begin to hear gri gri gri gri i:e walks, know that "won ti de" (they are here). Awon wo ni(Who are they)? . Awon malaika ni ati awon rawaniya. Ki ni won nfe(what do they want)? won ti n gbe bo (they bringing it). Kini won n gbe bo(what is it) salawaat ni (blessings). Allahu Akbar.

I experienced this 2 yrs in a row. Then it stopped but only to start again from another percepective between late 2009 and early 2011. Wallah every morning around fajr, I always hear knocks on my door. I am the only one in the apartment and have 2 doors. 1st door leads to the outside the street, 2nd door leads to another section in my apartment but not directly to the street.

It's this 2nd door I used to hear a knocks 3 times every fajr waking me up. The first time it happened. I asked who is it? I never got reply. I opened the door but no presence until i got used to it. It used to wake me up exactky fajr on the dot. But I wasnt attaching any significance to it until I asked the man one day. He asked if i make dua a lot?. I said yes. He laughed. They are ruhaniyah waking you up for fajr. He said it's up to them if they want to talk to me. Then he said maybe I am about to have a company like he does. I was freaked out. I stopped and I began to lack in dua.

But the knocks continued like that for another 6 months before it stopped. I havent been experiencing it since 2011. I think it just depends. Some may not feel physical presence of unseen. Other may feel tranquility and sakina within self. God is Greatest. Allah Akbar

maclatunji:


You know how people beautify something that is doubtful to make it look beautiful and pristine. You might as well start looking for "helpful elves" with the way Empiree is polishing his beliefs.

Nobody is polishing his beliefs here.The brother is not forcing you to believe in Ruhaniyahs.Spirituality has grades as paradise has grades.Someone that memorized the whole the Qu'ran and someone that memorized Juz Amma can't be compared.
What is doubtful to you is crystal clear to others, Yorubas will say 'Oun ti o ko waju si e, eyin lo ko si elomiran bi Ilu gangan' literally translated to 'What you see from the front is what another person sees from the back just like a talking drum'.


Please go and read Surah Al-Waqiyah and read what Allah said about the first set of people of paradise.Muqarabun don't stand on' I am offering solat and giving Zakat, fasting ramadan alone' as most of us do today.
Most of us are afraid of Shirk and it's normal

lanrexlan:
Honestly, I think this discussion about Ruhaniyah should have stop because people decided to choose what they want and see whatsoever they want to see.
@Tbaba1234, I think it's not too good to term/label whatever you haven't read about in books nor experience nor heard about from your Ustadhs 'rubbish'.
Because you haven't read about Ruhaniyah in books nor from your Ustadhs doesn't mean they don't exist.To people that have experience them, they are real and exist.

@Empiree, I feel you dear brother.Trying your best to make Tbaba1234 see that Ruhaniyah exists.Well brother, life itself is a choice the brother has perceived them/stories like that to be 'rubbish' right from his childhood as he said.So there's little you can do, well that's his opinions and he doesn't expect everybody to buy them.
I think the brother has made up his mind not to believe Ruhaniyah exists because they aren't in books of Hadith and hence, to him they are rubbish.

My point is that sometimes experience plays an important role in lives of men.Here is an hadith that says tranquility descends on a man when reading the Qu'ran.

Narrated Al-Bara' bin 'Azib: A man recited Surat-al- Kahf (in his prayer) and in the house there was a (riding) animal which got frightened and started jumping. The man finished his prayer with Taslim, but behold! A mist or a cloud hovered over him. He informed the Prophet of that and the Prophet said, "O so-and-so! Recite, for this (mist or cloud) was a sign of peace descending for the recitation of Quran.[Sahih Al-Bukhari Book 56, Hadith Number 811]
This is a man that recited the Qu'ran and clouds hover over him.We today do recite Surah Al-Kafh almost every friday, how many of us have feels the tranquility that man feels? Just for once?

Was there any record that Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) felt the same? Doesn't that mean the man is 'more spiritual' than Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household)? No, not in any manner.The Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) is the pious of men, yet some things were experienced by his companions which he doesn't experience and doesn't in any manner means his companions supersede him.
Some actions were done by his companions which he never did and he wasn't against them same with some experiences.

Another example.
Narrated Jabir: I heard the Prophet saying, "The Throne (of Allah) shook at the death of Sad bin Muadh." Through another group of narrators, Jabir added, "I heard the Prophet : saying, 'The Throne of the Beneficent shook because of the death of Sad bin Muadh[Sahih Al-Bukhari Book 58, Hadith Number 147]


Has there not been the above hadith, if I had told Tbaba1234 that there was a great noble Sheik here in Ibadan that died and the earth shook when he was lowered into the grave(The story is true), he may not have believe me and his reasons may be that there was no records of such for the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household).
His death doesn't brought about the shaking of earth nor there were records that notable companions deaths' shook the earth.
But does that mean Sa'ad Bin Mua'adh is greater than Muhammad(pbuh)? No, because the throne of Allah shook as claimed by that hadith doesn't mean he's greater.

In the same vein, because the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) doesn't experience Ruhaniyah doesn't mean they don't exist and AlBaqir gave a succinct reply to that.Because they aren't historical stories of Ruhaniyah doesn't mean they don't exist.

Brother Sino's story about his Ustadh shows pure Jinn at work, how can you be making du'a unclad? There are stories that if someone wants to pass his exams he should recite some acclaimed 'du'as' at certain time in the midnight nakedly.A brother I know of did so, he ran mad few days afterwards.

Brother Empiree's stories doesn't in any manner talk about making du'a unclad nor making du'a in toilet at a specific time, what he emphasizes on was reciting Surah Yasin and Adhkars in large quantities and not unclad before you can encounter these creatures known as Ruhaniyahs.These creatures are borne out of du'as as he said.

There are great Sheiks which their spiritual lives can't in any manner to compare to ours.

AlBaqir,I think I dare not to talk about some stories concerning the spiritual lives of great Sheiks in Yorubaland.I would be termed as 'extremist' or 'Ahlu Bidiah'.

You see, this is where some of the problem lies.

Trust me, I have seen the signs of the Quran, personally and I have read these hadiths.

At least, we have historical precedent of these things.

What is the historical precedent of ruhaniyah from all these great companions??

Where is the evidence of it??

We have these narrations from great companions yet this ruhaniyah has no precedence??

Are these sheikhs today more spiritual than their predecessors??

If we needed to know of this phenomenon in our spiritual lives, guaranteed, we would be informed in the Quran or in the prophetic narrations. A companion would have experienced it.

As regards the ustadh, I spoke about, it was a means of boasting and bragging about his personal spirituality. I knew him better than most. So yes, it was rubbish.

Now, I do not say miracles like what you have narrated do not occur. That is not my grouse.

If I do find reliable information based on islamic narrations, then i'd accept.

How do you tell the difference between ruhaniyah and jinn??

How do you know??

A muslim jinn can appear to you, if it takes a liking to you. How can you tell, it is not that??

There is more evidence of jinn activity in Islam.

@lanrexlan
May Allah reward you and all the brothers who commented.
I have learned a lot here. One thing though is if you do more dua, you will experience things that are "strange" and sound unbelievable to those who have not.

A lot of us want to be closer to Allah but when the requests start to get granted, we "freak out".

lanrexlan, you see, not that i am really interested in "consulting spirit" as maclatunji wants to portray. First all, i was telling a story. Second, mainstream ideology, which seems intolerant towards others is what i am basically trying to remove. They bore not only me but other muslims. It's like mechanical all the time.

If a student asks mainstream muslim scholar about xyz (something not known publicly), Sheik says "we did not have record of prophet or early generation mentioned this". Therefore, it must be haram or bid'ah when in fact the subject is real.

My point is mainstream is not always the way to go. They are just basic and that's it. And they are so rigid. The problem with that is they will not be able to understand modern world using their madhhab. Whats the point of quoting medieval ulama when Quran is still with us warning us about evolving predicament. Quran sits in judgement over everything else. I was once like that (rigid mentality) for 4 yrs. I made U-turn in 2011. Again, I quote the word of great Sheik Adam Abdullah Al-ilory

And I am a salafi as long as salafiyya refers to holding to the Sacred Law with practices based on what is flexible and evolving rather than that which is rigid and narrow.

lanrexlan:
Nobody is polishing his beliefs here.The brother is not forcing you to believe in Ruhaniyahs.Spirituality has grades as paradise has grades.Someone that memorized the whole the Qu'ran and someone that memorized Juz Amma can't be compared.
What is doubtful to you is crystal clear to others, Yorubas will say 'Oun ti o ko waju si e, eyin lo ko si elomiran bi Ilu gangan' literally translated to 'What you see from the front is what another person sees from the back just like a talking drum'.


Please go and read Surah Al-Waqiyah and read what Allah said about the first set of people of paradise.Muqarabun don't stand on' I am offering solat and giving Zakat, fasting ramadan alone' as most of us do today.
Most of us are afraid of Shirk and it's normal

Missing the point. Let us assume that Ruhaniyah exist. My question to you is: what is your business with them?

@Lanrexlan, you spoke about the earth shaking after a sheikh's death. I give you a narration from the prophet:

Narrated Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba: "The sun eclipsed in the life-time of Allah's Apostle on the day when (his son) Ibrahim died. So the people said that the sun had eclipsed because of the death of Ibrahim. Allah's Apostle said, "The sun and the moon do not eclipse because of the death or life (i.e. birth) of some-one. When you see the eclipse pray and invoke Allah."

Volume 2, Book 18, Number 153: Sahih bukhari

From this, we know that natural events like eclipse do not occur because of the death of anyone.

Minor Earthquakes occur all the time, it could be one of those natural occurences that had nothing to do with his death in particular.

We need to realise that whilst miracles do happen, they are usually subtle and personal.

Like a corpse not decaying or shade like you mentioned in a narration not earthquakes or eclipses.

Personal 'experiences' have to be looked at in the light of the Quran and Sunnah.

tbaba1234:
@Lanrexlan, you spoke about the earth shaking after a sheikh's death. I give you a narration from the prophet:

Narrated Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba: "The sun eclipsed in the life-time of Allah's Apostle on the day when (his son) Ibrahim died. So the people said that the sun had eclipsed because of the death of Ibrahim. Allah's Apostle said, "The sun and the moon do not eclipse because of the death or life (i.e. birth) of some-one. When you see the eclipse pray and invoke Allah."

Volume 2, Book 18, Number 153: Sahih bukhari

From this, we know that natural events like eclipse do not occur because of the death of anyone.

Minor Earthquakes occur all the time, it could be one of those natural occurences that had nothing to do with his death in particular.

We need to realise that whilst miracles do happen, they are usually subtle and personal.

Like a corpse not decaying or shade like you mentioned in a narration not earthquakes or eclipses.

Personal 'experiences' have to be looked at in the light of the Quran and Sunnah.

May Allah continue to bless, guide and protect you bro.

maclatunji:


May Allah continue to bless, guide and protect you bro.

Ameen

Kazlaw2000 thanks a lot bro.

For those saying because there are no documented evidence for Ruhaniyah then the stories should be discarded, know that not everything about everything is documented. Just know that.
If you don't have any solid proof to fault the narratives, kindly excuse us and allow the brothers share these stories. No one is forcing anyone to accept the "Ruhaniyah" beings' existence.
What you should preach instead should be that people shouldn't go seeking these beings as an ultimate but should rather seek Allah's pleasure.

A brother just shared hadith of a man who had an "experience" while reciting suratul kahf, now none of the popular companions (Abubakar et al) were reported to have experience such. Does that make them less spiritual than this companion or does that mean they too didn't have their own personal "experiences"? We should let go of our rigidity.

Empiree, Albaqir et al please let's hear more of these stories. If need be, create a topic for it (so we don't derail "Jinn stories"

Empiree:
^

I think the reason you cling on Jinn is because of preconceived notion...like easy written by ibn Taymmiya(r). Jinns are not in that quarter(duas). Jinn work with incantation called 'ofo' in Yoruba not dua. Dua (ism-llah) doesn't bring evil forces. That's another misconception is you need. Individual has different approach of explaining it.

But if you insist they are Jinn, at least muslim ones , then you may need to check your aqeeda. Allah says that where Qur'an or God's name is being mentioned, Angels descend is that arena. There is no mentioned of Jinn in that verse. Qur'an also used 'RUH' variably to describe unseen forces. To say these different folks are lying is laughable. These men are far practical than you. If i were you i would do independent unbiased research on Ruhaniyah.

I refer you to an ayah of the Quran:


1Say [Prophet], ‘It has been revealed to me that a group of jinn once listened in and said, “We have heard a wondrous Quran,2that gives guidance to the right path, and we have come to believe it––We shall never set up partners with our Lord––3and that He––exalted be the glory of our Lord!––has neither spouse nor child. 4Outrageous things have been said about God by the foolish among us, 5although we had thought that no man or jinn would [dare to] tell a lie about Him.6Men have sought refuge with the jinn in the past, but they only misguided them further.

Surah Jinn

This is from surah Jinn about Jinn sitting to listen to the Quran so please let us not go into aqeedah.

And yes, it does not stop angels from descending.

The quran mentions ruh in different contexts.

Ruh, like what is in the human.
Ruh al Qudus Angel jubril


Etc.

Now, Can you present the quranic evidence that allude to ruhaniyah??

Or one from the sunnah.

That is the simple assignment.

tbaba1234:


You see, this is where some of the problem lies. Trust me, I have seen the signs of the Quran, personally and I have read these hadiths. At least, we have historical precedent of these things.

Ma sha Allah!

Tbaba1234: What is the historical precedent of ruhaniyah from all these great companions??

Where is the evidence of it??
We have these narrations from great companions yet this ruhaniyah has no precedence??

Are these sheikhs today more spiritual than their predecessors??

@ underlined, is Sa'ad Bin Mua'adh more spiritual than the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household)? There's no record that Muhammad(pbuh)'s death shook the earth nor Allah's throne.

The man that experienced clouds hovering above him, is he more spiritual than the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household)? Or are there records the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) experience such?


And who told you predecessors may have not experience such? Have you and I read all books? There are thousand volumes of Books, we can't read everything.Let me use this analogy.

Abdah b. Sulayman al-Marwazî relates:We went on an expedition against the Romans. A Roman who was very strong and severe came forth. No Muslim could draw near him without being struck down by his sword. The Muslims became very afraid of him. Then a shrouded man went to attack that Roman, striking him
with his sword until he cut through him.He then hurried back to the military camp.I followed him and opened his shroud to find that it was none other than the great philanthropist and eminent scholar of Hadîth and Law, `Abd Allah b. al-Mubârak! He became very angry about what
I did and said:Even you defame us!(`Abd Allah b. al-Mubarak meant by this that the man made his identity and his deeds known to the public)

If the sahabas and tab'een have been very careful about their deeds that are apparent like Jihad, that they don't even want people to know about it.How much more personal Ibadah? Won't they be careful in talking about their personal Ibadah?
Did Bilal(ra) will made mentioned of his personal Ibadah to anyone? The Prophet(Peace be upon him) wouldn't have even know that Bilal(ra) engaged in such Ibadah if he didn't ask Bilal(ra).
How many times have you seen Mufti Ismail Musa Menk talking about his spiritual life in his lectures? Most people talk about their spiritual lives to people close to them.
What gives you assurance that the companions or Tab'een may have not experience such?

Tbaba1234: If we needed to know of this phenomenon in our spiritual lives, guaranteed, we would be informed in the Quran or in the prophetic narrations. A companion would have experienced it.

Not everything about companions is documented in books.

Tbaba1234: As regards the ustadh, I spoke about, it was a means of boasting and bragging about his personal spirituality. I knew him better than most. So yes, it was rubbish.

Now, I do not say miracles like what you have narrated do not occur. That is not my grouse.

If I do find reliable information based on islamic narrations, then i'd accept.

@Underlined, Innama Aliamaal bi Niyyat(Every action is based on intention).
If your Ustadh's intention is brag, to him belong his deeds.Most people here won't have know Ruhaniyah exist if brother Empiree didn't talk about them.

Alhamudulilah, so if there haven't been narrations that support that story of mine, will you agree dear brother?
There's little we can do about narrations in books, what people experience can't be compared to pages of Books.

Tbaba1234: How do you tell the difference between ruhaniyah and jinn??
How do you know??
A muslim jinn can appear to you, if it takes a liking to you. How can you tell, it is not that??
There is more evidence of jinn activity in Islam.

Jinn whether muslims or kafir are sometimes being invoked.People that use Jinns invoked them, there was a story of a man that I was told, this man used Jinn and to in order to see them and use, he sacrificed his right eye.

Moreover, most Jinns do possess humans and look at the story you gave about a boy that was being possessed by a muslim Jinn, the Jinn was seen moving on the wall scratching the wall or so and calling the boy's name.It's very rare to see Jinns without a 'vessel'.

Ruhaniyah on the other hands are borne out of Adhkars and du'as.If you want to feel Ruhaniyah, you increase your nawafil.Ruhaniyahs are not being invoked by mere recitations nor can they possess people.
Salam

Hkana:
Kazlaw2000 thanks a lot bro.

For those saying because there are no documented evidence for Ruhaniyah then the stories should be discarded, know that not everything about everything is documented. Just know that.
If you don't have any solid proof to fault the narratives, kindly excuse us and allow the brothers share these stories. No one is forcing anyone to accept the "Ruhaniyah" beings' existence.
What you should preach instead should be that people shouldn't go seeking these beings as an ultimate but should rather seek Allah's pleasure.

A brother just shared hadith of a man who had an "experience" while reciting suratul kahf, now none of the popular companions (Abubakar et al) were reported to have experience such. Does that make them less spiritual than this companion or does that mean they too didn't have their own personal "experiences"? We should let go of our rigidity.

Empiree, Albaqir et al please let's hear more of these stories. If need be, create a topic for it (so we don't derail "Jinn stories"

It is not about rigidity.

You are talking about Islam here. And it is not about miracles, miracles happened for many companions too.

Do you think, this information is important for your spirituality? Then why did the prophet not inform us?

Why did the Quran not inform us?

These are the kinds of things that lead to misguidance.

The people who saw an eclipse at the death of the prophet child saw it as a miracle without the prophet's clarification.

This is why events, have to be viewed in that light. The Quran and the sunnah.

There are people of high spirituality in the sight of Allah who experience personal miracles but we can not divorce it from the Quran and Sunnah.

Anything needed for our Islam is with us.

maclatunji:


Missing the point. Let us assume that Ruhaniyah exist. My question to you is: what is your business with them?

My business? Am I invoking them? Take for example, someone engaged himself the remembrance of Allah and recitation of the Qu'ran and feels tranquility, will he say I don't want this tranquility, go away from me ?

These stories don't talk about invoking Ruhaniyahs, so will stop your Adhkars because they show up?

lanrexlan:


Ruhaniyah on the other hands are borne out of Adhkars and du'as.If you want to feel Ruhaniyah, you increase your nawafil.Ruhaniyahs are not being invoked by mere recitations nor can they possess people.
Salam

The event of saad happened in the unseen. So you can not even compare as you do not know what happened in the unseen at the death of others.

The question is where is the precedent about duas leading to ruhaniyah.

Certainly, with the thousands of duas made by companions of higher spirituality. There would be evidence of this.

Lanrexlan, not even one narration..

Do you know how much of the personal life, we know of companions?

tbaba1234:
@Lanrexlan, you spoke about the earth shaking after a sheikh's death. I give you a narration from the prophet:

Narrated Al-Mughira bin Shu'ba: "The sun eclipsed in the life-time of Allah's Apostle on the day when (his son) Ibrahim died. So the people said that the sun had eclipsed because of the death of Ibrahim. Allah's Apostle said, "The sun and the moon do not eclipse because of the death or life (i.e. birth) of some-one. When you see the eclipse pray and invoke Allah."

Volume 2, Book 18, Number 153: Sahih bukhari

From this, we know that natural events like eclipse do not occur because of the death of anyone.

Minor Earthquakes occur all the time, it could be one of those natural occurences that had nothing to do with his death in particular.

We need to realise that whilst miracles do happen, they are usually subtle and personal.

Like a corpse not decaying or shade like you mentioned in a narration not earthquakes or eclipses.

Personal 'experiences' have to be looked at in the light of the Quran and Sunnah.

I don't expect you to buy my story dear brother.Life is a choice, eclipses of sun and moon are natural events.Since I was born, I haven't witness any minor earthquake in this side of world I am living.
Ponder over this verse.

Surah Ad-Dukhan 44:29 -And the heavens and the earth wept not for them , nor were they given a respite.
Here Allah is talking about the heavens and earth weeping not for disbelivers, will they weep for believers?
What do you have to say about Sa'ad Bin Mua'adh death? Is it natural phenomena too?

lanrexlan:
I don't expect you to buy my story dear brother.Life is a choice, eclipses of sun and moon are natural events.Since I was born, I haven't witness any minor earthquake in this side of world I am living.
Ponder over this verse.

Surah Ad-Dukhan 44:29 -And the heavens and the earth wept not for them , nor were they given a respite.
Here Allah is talking about the heavens and earth weeping not for disbelivers, will they weep
for believers?
What do you have to say about Sa'ad Bin Mua'adh death? Is it natural phenomena too?

Was saad event in the unseen or not??

Some people experience eclipses.just once in their lifetime, so what?

Or are you dismissing the hadith of the prophe

ayinba1:
@lanrexlan
May Allah reward you and all the brothers who commented.
I have learned a lot here. One thing though is if you do more dua, you will experience things that are "strange" and sound unbelievable to those who have not.

A lot of us want to be closer to Allah but when the requests start to get granted, we "freak out".

Ameen thumma ameen.May Allah reward us all and forgive us where we have erred.

@underlined thank you very much for that may Allah reward you, The Qu'ran says in Surah Al-Maeda 5:35 -O you who believe! Do your duty to Allâh and fear Him. Seek the means of approach to Him, and strive hard in His Cause (as much as you can). So that you may be successful.
Most people want to be closer to Allah but they think it's just by offering five daily solat only that will bring forth the closeness.
You can't sit on your chair at home and keep praying that 'O Allah I want to be close to you', it doesn't work that way.

tbaba1234:


The event of saad happened in the unseen. So you can not even compare as you do not know what happened in the unseen at the death of others.

The question is where is the precedent about duas leading to ruhaniyah.

Certainly, with the thousands of duas made by companions of higher spirituality. There would be evidence of this.

Please give us narrations that companions made thousands of du'as.I think you said it's not good to recite thousands of Adhkars.Or am I mistaking?

There's little we can do, you keep evading my questions.

lanrexlan:
Please give us narrations that companions made thousands of du'as.I think you said it's not good to recite thousands of Adhkars.Or am I mistaking?

There's little we can do, you keep evading my questions.

You are mistaken. I said, you do not fix a number not defined by the sunnah.

Otherwise, you can recite as much as you are able.

I would give narrations on the excellence of some of the worship by companions and tabeen, yet not one single authentic narration on this phenomenon.

lanrexlan:

Most people want to be closer to Allah but they think it's just by offering five daily solat only that will bring forth the closeness.
You can't sit on your chair at home and keep praying that 'O Allah I want to be close to you', it doesn't work that way.

It is by improving the quality of salat and working hard on following the sunnah.

tbaba1234:


Was saad event in the unseen or not??

Some people experience eclipses.just once in their lifetime, so what?

Or are you dismissing the hadith of the prophe

Nobody is dismissing hadith of the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) here? Eclipses of the sun and moon are natural phenomena which people would have seen before.

Yes, Sa'ad event was unseen, you should have said the same should happen for the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) or even a little less like the shaking of the earth? Do you remember that the mountain of Uhud shook with the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household), Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman(May Allah be pleased with them all)?

Is it natural phenomena?

A man experienced clouds hovering over him when reciting Surah Al-Kafh the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) didn't as there are no records for such.What do you have to say?

lanrexlan:
Nobody is dismissing hadith of the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) here? Eclipses of the sun and moon are natural phenomena which people would have seen before.

Yes, Sa'ad event was unseen, you should have said the same should happen for the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) or even a little less like the shaking of the earth? Do you remember that the mountain of Uhud shook with the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household), Abu Bakr, Umar and Uthman(May Allah be pleased with them all)?

Is it natural phenomena?

A man experienced clouds hovering over him when reciting Surah Al-Kafh the Prophet(Peace be upon him and his household) didn't as there are no records for such.What do you have to say?

Millions of earthquakes occur yearly, many too tiny to be felt. So that you feel one is hardly surprising.

i. Unless we have been told about what happens in the unseen, we do not project. We know what happened in the unseen at the death of Saad because we were told. We do not know what happened at the death of the prophet or his companions in the unseen unless we are told.

We have descriptions about what happens in general to the believer and the kaffir at death from the Quran because we are told.

We do not make projections on the unseen outside the Quran or the Sunnah. That is the major problem with the ruhaniyah thing.

ii. Did someone die at the shaking of uhud?? or was that a miracle given to a prophet??

Or do you want me to repeat the hadith??

iii. That is a personal and subtle miracle that happened to him and it can take various forms.

I have not discounted miracles, i have said, it has to be viewed in the light of the Quran and Sunnah.

Making projections on unseen phenomena without evidence from the Quran and Sunnah is wrong.