Cardinal Okogie

Anthony Cardinal Olubunmi Okogie is the Emeritus Archbishop of the Metropolitan See of the Catholic Archdiocese of Lagos. He was the founder of the soon to commence Augustine University, Ilara, Epe, Lagos State. In this interview with KENECHUKWU EZEONYEJIAKU during an inspection of the school to ascertain its level or preparedness for commencement of academic activities, the Cardinal bared his mind on the deteriorating standard of education in the country, a situation which he noted was what necessitated the establishment of the institution; to offer a holistic education.

You have a huge structure here. What is the rationale behind it?

WE’VE been thinking of helping the Federal Government in educating the citizens, especially the youths, and we discovered that there is a big lacuna in the kind of education that our youths are getting today. So, the Catholic church of the Archdiocese of Lagos felt it is something good to put an institution, a tertiary institution that will help train Nigerians and give them holistic education, proper one. Not the kind you find in other places.

What differentiates this institution from other private institutions, especially church owned institutions?

I have just told you that it is going to be holistic – every part; it is not just going to be academic. Probably, before you see really what we are doing, it will be about three or four years when the first group will go out, then you begin to see what the Catholic Church is doing. I cannot stand here immediately and tell you, this is what we are going to do. I don’t believe in that; I am not a politician; I want you to see things by yourself.
How much will the school charge? This is because there is this thing about church-owned institutions charging what is normally out of the reach of their members…

It is not only church-owned institutions. Anybody who wants to offer something good must be ready to spend money. If you want your child to go into a good school, you must be ready to spend money because it is an investment, life investment. If you want us to give you a rickety kind of education, we can do it so you can bring any Tom, Dick and Harry; then they get nothing.

Look at when we took over schools, take, for example, St. Gregory’s or St. Finbars’ College, there were more than 3,000 students in a school; we had to weed them out, even though some parents and students were not happy, but we had to do that because those were not the kind of pupils we want for our education. Now go there today and see.

So there must be that clear-cut difference. You talk of morality, you talk of spirituality and not only academics should be there. We want students that will come out from our institutions to make the mark; there must be that difference. For example, I am a priest; we are marked out among other people and that is seen in anything we do. We don’t have to ring our bells that ours is the best school. No! The schools speak for themselves.

What has it cost the Catholic Church to create this; and how are the programmes going to accommodate persons of other faith?

Coming to the money, I must tell you this: we have invested a lot of money in this place as you can see by yourselves, and we are still spending and we will continue to spend for the foreseeable future because it is a lifetime thing; it is not something you just do today and then you fold your arms or something you do for money, no.

I cannot tell you precisely how much we have spent here, but I know we have spent billions, I can tell you that authoritatively. I mean, look at the structures. Even when Nigerian Universities Commission (NUC) delegates came here, they were surprised to see what is already on ground in comparison to what they have been seeing elsewhere. And that is the Catholic Church for you when they do something.

Whether it is going to be faith-based or not, I don’t think so, otherwise, we will be failing in our ministry. When Lord Jesus Christ came… any good evangelizer will not just say, ‘I’m only going to look after my people, I don’t care about the other people’. No, that is not that. God is the father of us all. He didn’t say “I am only for Christians, for Catholics, for Muslims…” No! He is the father of everybody. Any good faith-based institution must look at everybody.

Go to any of our schools, you find Muslims there, you find Christians of other denominations. We don’t differentiate. If we are doing something and you want to go, you are free. I remember when I was in charge of the primary school, St. Mary’s, Broad Street, Lagos Island, one Colonel in the Nigerian Army came and met me and said: “I don’t want my children anytime we want to eat, they start doing this (sign of the cross). What is that nonsense? They won’ eat without driving away flies.” I said, “sir, you know one thing I will ask you to do and it will be good for you and for your children, just take them out”. The man said “No! No! But I like the school.” I told him “then, that is it. Leave it, when they come out from the school and grow up, then they will take anything they want out of the school.” That’s all. We force nobody, no one.

I think that is fair enough not to force anybody, ‘you must be here, or you must be there’. No! That’s not education.

When is the school starting operation?

I think it is September. I don’t know, I am not quite sure, but they are preparing the ground for matriculation.
The former Executive Secretary of NUC, Prof. Peter Okebukola recently canvassed that there should be ranking in terms of academic integrity in our nation’s universities. And he made this suggestion based on the corruption in the university system- incidents of cultism, inducement of lecturers financially for grades, sexual harassments. Are you worried in that regard?

I am greatly worried. And you cannot blame these children because this is the kind of society we leave for them. Didn’t you see what happened in the National Assembly? Fathers throwing chairs to their colleagues; what example are they setting for their children, even to students? And these are leaders and lawmakers of tomorrow. What are you going to say to that? This is where everything should begin.

The NUC should try to tailor things to the way that it is going to be beneficial to the nation. I blame them. What are they looking at? At least, they are in charge of the tertiary institutions I believe. What are they doing? Tomorrow, a lot of these boys that passed out of these rickety institutions will still enter the National Assembly.

Do you know how many lawyers we have today in the country? Innumerable. Why are they rushing there? Is there no other thing that they can do? And more and more are still going in for law; the same thing with economics. Everybody is rushing, rushing, for what? What are they looking for there? There are so many other courses… I don’t know. The Vice Chancellor and others will give you whatever you want about the academics of the institution; I don’t think I am competent enough for that.

His Eminence, there is this allegation about private institutions of late, what they do is to award First Class arbitrarily. Is this institution going to be different?

Before you land, I can promise you that it is definitely going to be different. Otherwise, I won’t be bothering my head thinking about giving the nation a university.

It took us time before they approved this institution, beginning with Obasanjo…
Really? So when was this institution conceived?

You know we have a College of Education in Akoka, Lagos State. Somebody just muted it at one of the school’s convocation ceremony. He said: “His Grace”, then, “why not turn this place to a university?” I said “what, this place?” He said, “of course, you can do it.” I said, “sir, I don’t think so. Look at this place, we are still trying to develop it and you are telling me about turning it into a university.” So that idea sank into me. I said, “Ok, God will do it”. That’s how we got it.

You see, I believe in one thing, that this heavenly father that we all look up to, He has a way of tailoring us the way he wants us to go. But unfortunately, we are so egoistically minded that we don’t just care; we want to do things our own way, ‘I have arrived, no one can control me.’

Look at our youths, look at the kind of names they call their fathers – ‘Old School’ and all sorts of names, and the parents will be looking at them, that it is not their fault. Rubbish! We are destroying these children and God will ask us: ‘You asked for children, I gave you, look at what you are returning to me’.

So, these are the kind of things that are happening.

His Eminence, it is an allegation too that Catholic institutions are known to be costly – Loyola Jesuit College and many others. Will the Augustine University expected to take-off by September, still be up there?


Before you land again, I had just answered the question earlier that ‘obe to donu owo lopa’. If you want to buy a good thing, a quality something, you just have to spend. Don’t forget that the lecturers have to be paid, the institutions have to be maintained; the students themselves, they want this they want that, you have to provide them. Where do you think I get the money from? You think I have a mint? I haven’t got a mint. You asked me earlier how much we have invested here, I told you that all I can tell you is that billions have gone into this place. You can see it by yourself and we haven’t started o! We haven’t started at all. It’s not easy.

Will there be provision for scholarship?

I don’t know. That depends on the Archbishop. I know we have a scholarship scheme going on, but whether the money in that account is buoyant enough for that, I don’t know.

menesheh:
Keep that crap out of our classroom. Human specie have been under such nonsensical spiritual concept for millenia, nothing to show as its good outcome rather than wars, vendetta, hunger, hypocrites, racism, chauvinism, genocide, bigotry, prejudice and overall deterrent to human development and enlightenment.

If not for some old brilliant and brave scientists (Copernicus, Bruno, Galileo, Descartes, Newton, Halley, Darwin, Hubble, even Bertrand Russethat) continued doing stuffs against all odds, which is now the boon to our present wellbeing, civilization and freedom. Imagine how the scenario would have being, if humanity is still stocked with that vulgar bronze ages ideas till now.

Sir OKOGIE, we, new generations of Nigerian Society will not gonna allow you lobby for that.

italo:


Bros, the Catholic Church practically invented science. It not only did that, it also sponsored and nurtured it. The Catholic Church also invented the University system in the middle ages.

Many of the great pioneers in many scientific areas were Catholics, even priests.

The Catholic Church founded Europe's first universities, producing scholars like Robert Grosseteste, Albert the Great, Roger Bacon and Thomas Aquinas, who helped establish scientific method. Fr Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744–1829) prefigured the theory of evolution with Lamarckism; Friar Gregor Mendel (1822–84) pioneered genetics and Fr Georges Lemaitre (1894-1966) proposed the Big Bang cosmological model.

Some of the great scientists you mentioned were Catholic.

In short, the Catholic Church built The Western civilization you now value.

I just chose to illuminate your mind because I know that you spoke out of ignorance.

"My people perish for lack of knowledge!"

menesheh:



Really?

Nice one.

menesheh:


Have ever read about the Catholic prosecutions, persecutions and executions of some great scientists that came up some finding that contradicts the teaching of the bible or the views of church?

menesheh:



Haven't about about how older scientists where silenced and some went into exile because of their scientific research by the papacy.

menesheh:



From 18th century downwards, there is no known non-believer, the church wanted to suppress science in other to maintain their delusion and dogma but truth and fact are not respecter of emotions, feelings and authority.

menesheh:



Those great scientist you claimed to be catholic, are just obeying the earthly divine totalitarian north korean regime of the papacy for fear of death in the case of apostasy.

menesheh:



Mind you, scientific research don't mind the illusion or myth that one hold. The bible say nothing about those inventions, discovers and research methodologies. How dare you claim that the catholic are the architect of science. It is brilliant and zealous individuals, no matter their faith, or the believe of the society they belonged, are the brains behind it all.

menesheh:



Galileo was ordered to turn himself in to the Holy Office to begin trial [b]for holding the belief that the Earth revolves around the Sun, which was deemed heretical by the Catholic Church. Standard practice demanded that the accused be imprisoned and secluded during the trial. Catholic Church persecuted Galileo for abandoning the geocentric [/b]

italo:



You didn't say if the points I made are true or not. Please say!



Example?




Example?

italo:


Bros, the Catholic Church practically invented science. It not only did that, it also sponsored and nurtured it. The Catholic Church also invented the University system in the middle ages.

Many of the great pioneers in many scientific areas were Catholics, even priests.

The Catholic Church founded Europe's first universities, producing scholars like Robert Grosseteste, Albert the Great, Roger Bacon and Thomas Aquinas, who helped establish scientific method. Fr Jean-Baptiste Lamarck (1744–1829) prefigured the theory of evolution with Lamarckism; Friar Gregor Mendel (1822–84) pioneered genetics and Fr Georges Lemaitre (1894-1966) proposed the Big Bang cosmological model.

Some of the great scientists you mentioned were Catholic.

In short, the Catholic Church built The Western civilization you now value.

I just chose to illuminate your mind because I know that you spoke out of ignorance.

"My people perish for lack of knowledge!"

menesheh:


go to wikipedia or google and research.




you talked about ignorance pretty much.


but you are the one ignorant of the persecutions of early scientists in Rome of which vatican is aware of.it is not a mere story but fact. google up.





ence theological teaching with his unproved theory.

plaetton:


You selectively or ignorantly forgot to mention that the Catholic church was THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN during the medieval era.

It is like saying that because Nazism was the only Game in Town in the 1940s Germany, we can attribute all German engineering marvels to Nazi ideology.

plaetton:


You selectively or ignorantly forgot to mention that the Catholic church was THE ONLY GAME IN TOWN during the medieval era.

It is like saying that because Nazism was the only Game in Town in the 1940s Germany, we can attribute all German engineering marvels to Nazi ideology.

plaetton:
My reply to Okogie would be him to stop talking nonsense.

Africa is tired of spiritual mumbo jumbo. The African mind is already clogged with too much spiritual garbage hawked by religious lackeys like him.

The African mind is in serious and urgent need of declogging from all the religious trashes foisted and spoonfed to African children by cultural traitors like him and his fraudulent pentecostal clowns.

What we definitely need more of in our educational system are Science, mathematics, history and cultural reorientation,not more middle east toxic wastes.

italo:


That is a lie. Before, during and after the medieval era, there have been hundreds of religions in the world.

There was German engineering before the Nazi party...

And I never attributed all scientific marvels to the Catholic Church.

So your post in no way addresses mine.

I said the Catholic Church practically invented science, sponsored and nurtured it. I showed how Catholic clergy and laymen were pioneers of many scientific fields.

I did these in response to an ignoramus who thinks that religion is a bane to humanity, while science is opposite...not knowing that science is a child of religion.

plaetton:

Religion is a bane and affront to human dignity.
Haven't You even realized that yet.
The Catholic church, yes the grand ol Catholic church, for example, single handedly destroyed soo many beautiful and diverse cultures all over the world.

The Catholic church had, in her haydays, brought unthinkable distruction, suffering and disharmony to the world.
This is undeniable history.

plaetton:

Religion is a bane and affront to human dignity.

italo:


Give examples.

I think you meant to say Atheism. See how many were killed in Soviet Union, Cambodia, China, North Korea etc. Dozens of millions! Atheists are the worst mass-murderers in history. E.g Stalin, Pol Pot, Mao...

When I look around the world, I see thousands and thousands of Catholic Charities, schools and hospitals. The Catholic Church is the biggest Charity organization in the world.

Will you deny that?

Stop killing yourself with envy.

The Church will continue to give life and relief, while Atheism will continue to bring death and anarchy.

plaetton:

Indeed, the Catholic church is the Biggest charity in the world today. I commend them on those great works.
But, you should never deny the sordid history of the Catholic church by making hypicritical statements.

italo:


It's simple.

The Church teaches us to do good to the less privileged...and many Catholics do so.

So I commend the Church and members who follow that teaching.

The Church teaches loudly, clearly and consistently, that sex is for married couples only, yet a minute % of Catholics have been found to molest young boys.

I cannot blame the Church for that...I blame the individuals who refused to follow Church teaching.

However, when I look at the overall picture, the Church and its hierarchy have done faaaaaar more good than the evil they have done.

But enemies of the Church like you pick on one bad thing and blow it out of proportion...while ignoring the millions of good things happening every second in every country.

For example, you speak a lot about Priests who molested children...

Have you ever spoken about the hundreds of priests who remain in places like Syria and Iraq, even in North-eastern Nigeria (when they can easily get out, and many have given their lives for this) just to offer both spiritual and material relief to the traumatized citizens of all religions?

NO!

Why?

Because you're not interested in truth...you're interested in preaching against religion, irrespective of the truth.

What could it be, but dishonesty and hypocrisy, that makes you judge a religion, not on what it teaches, and not on the deeds of the majority who adhere to these teachings...but on the few who disregard its teachings?

If 11 of your 12 Children mostly do good as you taught them to...but one, who by the way also does good most times, ends up murdering someone...

Should you be ajudged an evil murderer?

italo:


That is a lie. Before, during and after the medieval era, there have been hundreds of religions in the world.

There was German engineering before the Nazi party...

And I never attributed all scientific marvels to the Catholic Church.

So your post in no way addresses mine.

I said the Catholic Church practically invented science, sponsored and nurtured it. I showed how Catholic clergy and laymen were pioneers of many scientific fields.

I did these in response to an ignoramus who thinks that religion is a bane to humanity, while science is opposite...[size=18pt]not knowing that science is a child of religion[/size].

5minsmadness:
Johnydon22 am not answering you. Just know in advance

Hahahahahahahahaha i wasn't actually thinking on replying you or attack your post bro. . . Am just an agnostic atheist that doesn't make me anti-theist or anti-christian or anti-muslim...

Funny dude

5minsmadness:

OUCHHH!!!

Funny how you thought he italo made a point when he clearly laid a mistaken notion of his doing.

Philosophy is the birth parent of both religion and science.. I thought you should know that bro

johnydon22:
Hahahahahahahahaha i wasn't actually thinking on replying you or attack your post bro. . . Am just an [b]agnostic atheist that doesn't make me anti-theist or anti-christian or anti-muslim...

Funny dude [/b]

5minsmadness:


God bless you sir!
Most people on here are not interested in seeking the truth. They just argue to sensationalize or discredit or insult the Christian faith. . And when they are stumped they tell you that you have made no point and quickly walk away.

It's fruitless engaging in reasonable discussions here.

johnydon22:
Funny how you thought he italo made a point when he clearly laid a mistaken notion of his doing.

Philosophy is the birth parent of both religion and science.. I thought you should know that bro

5minsmadness:

@bolded no such thing as an agnostic atheist. The two terms are different.

In fact your last statement as a whole doesn't make sense. How can u be atheist and not anti-theist?
Is this a bait?
Hope we don't derail this thread.

5minsmadness:

@bolded no such thing as an agnostic atheist. The two terms are different.

In fact your last statement as a whole doesn't make sense. How can u be atheist and not anti-theist?
Is this a bait?
Hope we don't derail this thread.

I am a heterosexual, this orientation or position doesn't make me Anti-gay...
Theism and atheism are just different ideological positions not enmity, am surprised you don't know this...

Being hetero doesn't make you anti-gay same way being atheistic doesn't make one anti-theistic