We had a thread previously but we lost it as a result of the NL crash. As a result, I thought it would be a good idea to restart the thread for discussions, questions, research and whatever.

Let me start with some pictures from past festivals.

More.

More

More.

More pictures.

OP's fam compound.

Ile Olorisa (Obatala's compound).


The compound plays/holds an important role in the spiritual hierachy in Ile-Ife/Yoruba-land one of which is taking charge of the Ade Are (Oduduwa's crown) which Obatala wears during the period an Ooni passed on and when another ascends the throne.

They are part of the Idita, one of the original families Oduduwa met in Ife. As an Ooni owns no land, Idita family land starts from Mokuro junction opposite Moore police station to As far as Ife boundary with Ilesa.

There are 3 groups in the family; the Ilesun, Ilale and Ilea (the latter 2 have merged into one).

The place in the picture is where odun obatala holds as well as Idita. This is the temple where Obatala (the compound) descents hold prayers and stuff and it is where the Obalesun is everyday of the week.

brianero24:

Do you want to add or have a Q sir?

Beautiful

Please can you tell us the Oriki of Obatala

9jacrip

I have 3 questions

1. You said after the passing of an Ooni/Olufe, Obatala wears the crown. ..as what? Acting Olufe or merely a crown keeper? Does he begin to run the affairs of Ile-Ife?

2. Am still confused over the relationship between Idita and Iranje. . We know Obatala was Oba of Iranje but it seems nobody knows where Iranje is today

3. What is the connection between Obatala and the Ugbo people? I have heard a babalawo chant "a bi l'ode Ugbo o lo j'oba l'ode Iranje"
And many "historians" claim Obatala had conived with the Ugbo in their many attempts against Ife

macof:
Beautiful

Please can you tell us the Oriki of Obatala

I can't recall it right now. I'll put it together and edit this out.

Baala O! Baala O!
Ore Or'Elu.
Igin gb'omola
Igin Omo Akoro
o tu koko ala fomo tore.
O sun sile foje tikun,
onile ji oje o ji.
Ogbagba ti fi owo ala gbale.
(I'm mixing the rest up)

Coming.

9jacrip:


I can't recall it right now. I'll put it together and edit this out.

1) is it like oro were every female is expected to hide
2) do they use human for sacrifice
3) do's and don't of the festival

macof:
9jacrip

I have 3 questions

1. You said after the passing of an Ooni/Olufe, Obatala wears the crown. ..as what? Acting Olufe or merely a crown keeper? Does he begin to run the affairs of Ile-Ife?

2. Am still confused over the relationship between Idita and Iranje. . We know Obatala was Oba of Iranje but it seems nobody knows where Iranje is today

3. What is the connection between Obatala and the Ugbo people? I have heard a babalawo chant "a bi l'ode Ugbo o lo j'oba l'ode Iranje"
And many "historians" claim Obatala had conived with the Ugbo in their many attempts against Ife

Thank you for the Qs bro.

Below are the answers:

1. Not as the crown keeper. Oduduwa met Obatala and other powerful folks in Ife. He (Obatala) was the most powerful and apparent leader at that point with whom Oduduwa had a severe face-off with (that has created one of the eewos that both families observe till today). Obatala at a point had the Ade Are but during the conflict, Oduduwa commamded it off of his head and was exiled along with his wife and offsprings but was later sought for and appeased. Summarily, he was supposed to be the King but lost out, in order to recognize his status as the most powerful figure of that period, he wears the crown before any new Ooni.

2. We once talked about this and I was supposed to get back to you. Idita include Ilesun, Ilale and Balea (Balea has merged into Ilale) and now we have just Ilesun and Ilale. Idita is Iranje Ile and the present day Igbo Itapa was Iranje Oko. The site of Obatala's palace at Iranje Ile @ Idita is called Igbo-Ogbe/Igbo Orisa and is still in existence and occupied by the Oloja Iranje (the overall head/the king of both Iranjes), picked from the blood line of any of the Idita houses.

3. Obatala was de facto King of every autochthonous peoples of Ife - the Ugbo inclusive. He was born in Ilu awon Ugbo (when Ugbo held sway before Ife was given its name 'Ife'). He became king in Iranje, one of the independent hamlets that constituted Ife during the pre-oduduwa period.

hakeem4:


1) is it like oro were every female is expected to hide
2) do they use human for sacrifice
3) do's and don't of the festival

1. No, women play important roles of Obatala activities.

2. Back in time, yes. Now, no.

3. Except after initiation, you go further into initiating into the Ogboni ile (the source of all other ogboni groups that have turned to blood money groups) there are not so much dos and don'ts. The basic is to abstain from palm wine for Obatala initiates.

For non initiates during festivals no drumming, when Obatala and Yeemo's figures are carried through the town at night you are expected to face-down if out, no curses are to be said during these periods.

@9jacrip, excellent thread.
I have some questions too.
I have read on the history of Ife, Obatala the ruler and Obatala the deity, and Oduduwa.
The fascinating aspects was the revelation from a source I cannot mention here about the significance of the white
painted dots on the celebrants bodies.
The summary was that that the white dots signify in literal terms the first secret of physical life as we know it.
Being naturally inquisitive I probed further, but did not get much details, except a cryptic statement about
"light" and "matter" and how everything we see is just vibrating colors and stuff.
Will it be out of place for you to share some knowledge...as I'm always intrigued by the coded symbolisms inherent in
these ceremonies.

Next is the difference between Obatala the human king and Obatala the deity.
Informed folks or should I say inner traditions point out that the deity was/is actually androgynous and is a proper "Aje" with mystical ase.
I have a little insight into the concepts of Yoruba divine feminity and the implications as per orisha worship.
But I have not been able to make complete sense of the symbolisms and deeper meanings.
Care to share some insights?
Would be obliged. Thanks.

Thanks for the thread and the photos, 9ja.

Pablo--the spots and dashes are usually called "finfin", and they are a metaphoric reference to a leopard's spots. When a new initiate or member of the clergy is marked with them, it's a form of conferring royal status since the leopard is symbol of royalty. There's an oriki that suggests this more explicitly which you can read about. There may be other connotations to the spots as well, but that's the one I'm familiar with.

PabloAfricanus:
@9jacrip, excellent thread.
I have some questions too.
I have read on the history of Ife, Obatala the ruler and Obatala the deity, and Oduduwa.
The fascinating aspects was the revelation from a source I cannot mention here about the significance of the white
painted dots on the celebrants bodies.
The summary was that that the white dots signify in literal terms the first secret of physical life as we know it.
Being naturally inquisitive I probed further, but did not get much details, except a cryptic statement about
"light" and "matter" and how everything we see is just vibrating colors and stuff.
Will it be out of place for you to share some knowledge...as I'm always intrigued by the coded symbolisms inherent in
these ceremonies.

Next is the difference between Obatala the human king and Obatala the deity.
Informed folks or should I say inner traditions point out that the deity was/is actually androgynous and is a proper "Aje" with mystical ase.
I have a little insight into the concepts of Yoruba divine feminity and the implications as per orisha worship.
But I have not been able to make complete sense of the symbolisms and deeper meanings.
Care to share some insights?
Would be obliged. Thanks.

Obatala the human ruler is different from Obatala the spirit being in Yoruba belief system. Yoruba history carries with it two aspects, the actual events surrounding the character backed up in verifiable proofs in our surroundings and the mystery intended to show the supernatural powers, ranking, strength etc of a deity.

Both sides for every character are present in Ifa but most people ignore the details of real life occurences because the mythical/spiritual is given by Ifa and used by the Babalawo to explain and solve problems.

Sir/Ma, do endeavour to mention your sources sir, this way we'd know if it is correct or worths digging into further. As for the white dots, when Obatala and Oduduwa face off was at its peak, the powerful people in Ife back then (now deities except Orunmila) all chose sides with Sopanna/Obaluaye going with Obatala. The ifin, from my understanding is to commemorate Sopanna/Obaluaye allegiance - the sane way Oluorogbo, Orisakire, Ijugbe play important roles on one of the days of the festival.

Obatala was not androgynous. He was male and had a wife, Yeemo, whose relics also exist. There were/are Aje (Mojuba o!), Yeemo was one and regarded as one of the firsts. Obatala, being very powerful also initiated into the Aje. And yes, Obatala is known to posses and keep the ase of Olodumare.

Symbolisms in Ifa are solely for divination purposes in order to be able to understand and solve a situation since everything that is happening now has happened before but resolved - the symbolism connects the dots to help find a solution.

Symbolisms in Orisa festivals are encoded messages denoting past historical events. There is not more spiritualism to them, they are only spots waiting to be explored for historical details.

TerraCotta:
Thanks for the thread and the photos, 9ja.

Pablo--the spots and dashes are usually called "finfin", and they are a metaphoric reference to a leopard's spots. When a new initiate or member of the clergy is marked with them, it's a form of conferring royal status since the leopard is symbol of royalty. There's an oriki that suggests this more explicitly which you can read about. There may be other connotations to the spots as well, but that's the one I'm familiar with.

Thank you Sir.

Your post about the efin/finfin is correct but I should add that the use of these white spots vary by the deity & practice.

For example, the Araba (Ifa Chief priest), during (world) Odun Ifa at Ife wears the white thing all over. The historical context there is that the Araba/Orunmila at a point transformed into a leopard to go see the King - there is a historical account to this.

9jacrip:


Obatala the human ruler is different from Obatala the spirit being in Yoruba belief system. Yoruba history carries with it two aspects, the actual events surrounding the character backed up in verifiable proofs in our surroundings and the mystery intended to show the supernatural powers, ranking, strength etc of a deity.

Both sides for every character are present in Ifa but most people ignore the details of real life occurences because the mythical/spiritual is given by Ifa and used by the Babalawo to explain and solve problems.

Sir/Ma, do endeavour to mention your sources sir, this way we'd know if it is correct or worths digging into further. As for the white dots, when Obatala and Oduduwa face off was at its peak, the powerful people in Ife back then (now deities except Orunmila) all chose sides with Sopanna/Obaluaye going with Obatala. The ifin, from my understanding is to commemorate Sopanna/Obaluaye allegiance - the sane way Oluorogbo, Orisakire, Ijugbe play important roles on one of the days of the festival.

Obatala was not androgynous. He was male and had a wife, Yeemo, whose relics also exist. There were/are Aje (Mojuba o!), Yeemo was one and regarded as one of the firsts. Obatala, being very powerful also initiated into the Aje. And yes, Obatala is known to posses and keep the ase of Olodumare.

Symbolisms in Ifa are solely for divination purposes in order to be able to understand and solve a situation since everything that is happening now has happened before but resolved - the symbolism connects the dots to help find a solution.

Symbolisms in Orisa festivals are encoded messages denoting past historical events. There is not more spiritualism to them, they are only spots waiting to be explored for historical details.

Thanks for the response!
And its a Sir not Ma

As per sources,I study history for enlightenment and ask question from knowledgeable folks.
You know initiates with their ogberi and awo class divides.
Others are from published texts like the ones I'll cite below.

Our Mothers, Our Powers, Our Texts: Manifestations of Àjé in Africana Literature
http://www.amazon.com/Our-Mothers-Powers-Texts-Manifestations/dp/0253217571/

Like Èsù, Obàtálá partakes of both genders and has Àje but has been subjected to patrification and Christianization.
The Deity’s white cloth has led to minimizing
comparisons with the Christian God, and her-his Àje and “equally
expressive femininity,” to borrow Ogundipe’s phrase, is often overlooked.
However, the conscientious ones remind those seeking false
equivalents of Obàtálá’s multitudinousness. In Pepe Carril’s drama Shango de Ima, Obàtálá’s self-description is faithful to spiritual reality
and contains copious references to Àje:

I was always sanctified and old. I was never able to be a child, to live
the life of an ordinary woman. . . . But I have sixteen roads. I have humility.
I am loving, vengeful, voluptuous, and simple. I am father,
mother, king and queen. I am wise and serene. I am the mistress of destiny.
And I am also nothing. . . . this white hair of mine reflects all mysteries.
I have the power of all minds, and I bring retribution to those whose minds
are evil.


As lyrical and accurate as Carril’s description i s, an ancient oríkì of Obàtálá shared by C. L. Adeoye is more forthright and of even greater
depth:

Olufon Adé,
King fully adorned with white beads
Those who label you àje are not liars
It is the skull of another human being that you use to drink water
For osùn (camwood) to rub your body, you use the blood of humans
The water in the clay pot (oru) given to you
Is placed on somebody else’s head.



As the Òrìsà of the white cloth, Obàtálá is a reflection of everything and reflects everything,
including the rich profundity of Àje. Obàtálá functions like the prism, which bends, separates, and reveals the spectrum of possibilities
lodged in the beam of “white” light.

Care to discuss?

Another you might find interesting...is Iyami Osoronga: Divine Femininity
http://www.amazon.com/Iyami-Osoronga-Divine-Femininity-Feminniity/dp/1479791156/

There was a lot of interesting stuff mentioned in these texts and others.
The implications are vast and far reaching...when you add to the mix recent scientific discoveries in the fields of genetics and endocrinology.
I have read it elsewhere that the "odu" pot given to initiated awos signifies the womb/va.gina...and symbolically represents the feminine estrogen
generated in the female body...which manifests as the "ase". Hence it is forbidden for women to look inside...as the ewoo implies any contravening female would start leaking oestrogen amongst other mishaps.

I think Africans probed deeper into the mysteries of nature far more than we realize.
The difficulty arises when its all wrapped in secrecy and not used for the benefit and good of all.
Imagine if the Europeans and Asians had kept electricity, chemistry,physics, electronics, aviation...to their lodges and secret societies?
We need to revive our pride and take our place in history.
Even the Ooni could not depend on the highest level Osanyin priests whom he could summon at will to treat mere diabetes...
but had to be flown out to a London hospital.
I think its time for Africans to open up and contribute POSITIVE things to the world.
Don't you think so?

9jacrip:


Thank you for the Qs bro.

Below are the answers:

1. Not as the crown keeper. Oduduwa met Obatala and other powerful folks in Ife. He (Obatala) was the most powerful and apparent leader at that point with whom Oduduwa had a severe face-off with (that has created one of the eewos that both families observe till today). Obatala at a point had the Ade Are but during the conflict, Oduduwa commamded it off of his head and was exiled along with his wife and offsprings but was later sought for and appeased. Summarily, he was supposed to be the King but lost out, in order to recognize his status as the most powerful figure of that period, he wears the crown before any new Ooni.

2. We once talked about this and I was supposed to get back to you. Idita means 'Idi meta' that I mentioned in one of my earlier posts. It include Ilesun, Ilale and Balea (Balea has merged into Ilale) and now we have just Ilesun and Ilale. Idita is Iranje Ile and the present day Igbo Itapa was Iranje Oko. The site of Obatala's palace at Iranje Ile @ Idita is called Igbo-Ogbe/Igbo Orisa and is still in existence and occupied by the Oloja Iranje (the overall head/the king of both Iranjes), picked from the blood line of any of the Idita houses.

3. Obatala was de facto King of every autochthonous peoples of Ife - the Ugbo inclusive. He was born in Ilu awon Ugbo (when Ugbo held sway before Ife was given its name 'Ife'). He became king in Iranje, one of the independent hamlets that constituted Ife during the pre-oduduwa period.

Thank you for the reply

1. OK but wearing the crown doesn't equate running the affairs of Ile-Ife. ...doesn't it?

2. Am still confused....is Iranje(-ile) a yard within Idita? Or the original name for the entire land owned by all 3 Idita lineages?
I never knew there were 2 Iranjes. .but I think I understand...I've noticed important and rich families back in the days have residential quaters and more land elsewhere to cultivate

3. If "Ilu awon Ugbo" has been among the autonomous communities in Pre-oduduwa era. where in Ile-Ife today constituted this land? I imagine it should be an important part of the Obatala cult. ..being Obatala's birthplace

macof:


Thank you for the reply

1. OK but wearing the crown doesn't equate running the affairs of Ile-Ife. ...doesn't it?

2. Am still confused....is Iranje(-ile) a yard within Idita? Or the original name for the entire land owned by all 3 Idita lineages?
I never knew there were 2 Iranjes. .but I think I understand...I've noticed important and rich families back in the days have residential quaters and more land elsewhere to cultivate

3. If "Ilu awon Ugbo" has been among the autonomous communities in Pre-oduduwa era. where in Ile-Ife today constituted this land? I imagine it should be an important part of the Obatala cult. ..being Obatala's birthplace

1. No, it does not. Also, Ooni does not run affairs of Ife, Obalufe does. Obatala wearing the crown and Ile Olorisa doing the etutu during the window period is part of a process. If this is not done, any new Ooni will pass upon wearing the crown.

2. Yes, it is the original name for the entire land owned by the 3 (now 2) lineages.

3. I am not sure where this land covers presently. I could try asking question about this.


********
I have not forgotten the oriki, I am working on it.

9jacrip:


1. No, it does not. Also, Ooni does not run affairs of Ife, Obalufe does. Obatala wearing the crown and Ile Olorisa doing the etutu during the window period is part of a process. If this is not done, any new Ooni will pass upon wearing the crown.

2. Yes, it is the original name for the entire land owned by the 3 (now 2) lineages.

3. I am not sure where this land covers presently. I could try asking question about this.


********
I have not forgotten the oriki, I am working on it.

Thank you for your kind answers. .. I've learnt a lot

cc: lalasticlala
This is an informative thread, make una push am enter front page biko.

This is awesome











Isese l'agba







Am proud to be lover of culture

Good

Good

Are these people Celestial church people

Is this Orisha Nla an idol?

ok