damiso:


I believe in that but I think there are some factors/environments that encourage and bring it fore. We talk about jews, igbos, ijebu people being entrepreural but I think its something that children growinh up in those communities subconsciously emulate.

My mum had never had just one stream of income and I had been going to help in shop from about 6 years old . Right from university I would sell stuff to my friends and even when job searching I was always looking for gaps that I could fill . While it might be partly inborn I think growing up in that environment brought it to the fore a bit

Exactly. Like my igbo brothers and sisters.

moca:

Exactly. Like my igbo brothers and sisters.

That is why they have the nickname "Jews of Nigeria".

Sagamite:


We are too busy looking for jobs.

There is no entrepreneurial inclination except we can't get jobs.

All of you, watch out for my Sagakids.

Una go hear!

It's a vicious cycle.
This is exactly what we do at home.
Too busy looking for jobs.

Sagamite:


Look at Kweku Adoboli. He was black but rose to the top quickly. Within 5 years, he moved from back office analyst role to front office senior manager role making £350K a year and spending £5K a month on renting a one-bedroom apartment.

First of all, to get to that senior front office role from a junior front office role takes longer than that. Not to talk of from a junior BACK office role.

Secondly, it is extremely rare to have someone from back office transitioning to front office. Talkless of transitioning to front office and accelerating.

But he, as a black man, did it.

Sagamite:

There was a career booklet (TARGET) produced by Guardian newspapers about 8 years ago to advise university graduates.
Fortunately, it contains a survey of what backgrounds graduate hires have, based on their ethnicity.
Unfortunately, I only have it in hard copy. Because it is only in hard copy, I have never thrown it away, it is still in my apartment.
Now let me show you how it is an advantage to be black in the lower levels PLUS how blacks are still lagging comparatively to other ethnic minorities by looking at some of the most prestigious industries.

Investment Banking & Management graduate hires
Indian British - 9.8%
Black British - 8.5%
Pakistani British - 3.3%
Chinese British - 18.5%

In ALL, Blacks exceed their % of the population. But these other minorities even do better than Blacks.
That means, whites have below their % of the population.

Thanks for this Saga.

Yes, I wanted to address the earlier point you made about swift career progression of Kweku from the BackOffice to the FrontOffice, but this is going to be purely from my experiences and what I've seen for myself.

Kweku's progression really isn't that unusual in the Investment Banking environment if he joined in on the Graduate Scheme. I too joined in on a similar scheme shortly after obtaining my Masters Degree (another point I'll address). You don't even need to have that much experience as a Graduate Trainee but you must demonstrate the drive, motivation, and of course, good grades to back you up too.

Regarding the graduate scheme I was on, it ran on a series of (optional) placements. I say optional because although not mandatory, graduates were encouraged to broaden their experiences by working in different areas of the bank. For those of us in Investment Banking Technology (IB Tech) we had to run with that position for at least two and a half years, out of which it was mandatory to spend at least one year in a particular role (the first six months to get to grips with the job and the latter six months to demonstrate what you've learnt / deliver the goods). Hiring managers were made to understand that such graduates could move onto any area of the bank they so wished, irrespective of what their performance rankings were once their one year tenure was up (but obviously, if you were completely crappy at your job, you'll get an awful reference feedback and any other potential manager could choose to hire or not hire you at their discretion - it was subjective, if you get what I mean).

So potentially, those of us in IB Tech could out of those 2^1/2 years rotate 2 or 3 years. Some chose to remain were they were and others chose to explore. I think (can't remember) for those in Operations, their tenures were shorter. 6 - 9 months was all they needed in a particular role before moving - based on the assumption that working in Operations was far easier than Technology. Additionally, graduates were encouraged to network with others including potential hiring managers via any one of the numerous corporate bonding activities, social events, lunches / dinners / Friday evening pub quizzes / get-togethers. There's so much I can't list them all. So it's very possible that Kweku could have been an extrovert who easily socialized and was able to network efficiently. His progression isn't that surprising either.

On the graduate scheme it's been Analyst --> AVP --> VP --> Exec Dir --> MD and onwards. On completion of the graduate scheme, if you did well, you become an AVP and shortly afterwards a VP all in the span of 3-5 years. If you came in via the non-graduate route, it'll be Analyst --> Associate --> VP --> Exec and son on.

Now, to the bit regarding the type of uni one attended. Sure, employers will always actively source out high performing graduates from top elite schools but that doesn't mean they don't look elsewhere. I got my first degree from Naija (UNN) and then my Masters degree from a not so great Uni over here. Infact, I tried my best to get into schools like Imperial College (like my dad did way back in the 70's on scholarship), but for where. It was tough. Of the six Universities I applied for, five said "No". I was so upset, I didn't even read my mails for a month and nearly missed the sixth one that offered me a place. But guess what, after I'd accepted the offer, I found out that my school was at the bottom of the league table. Saga, bottom oh! not last but one, or third to last - but the very bottom. It didn't help either during the course to see my course mates drop off like flies. Of the six of us who started, I was the only one from that set that completed the darn course and got my degree (thanks to my dad's encouragement). He used to say the Uni wasn't as important as completing the course successfully. "Just get your certificate girl!" was what he told me.

Anyway, my point is: yes, my Uni was crappy but what managers look out for when interviewing someone, (i.e: apart from their qualifications, experiences, and interpersonal skills) is whether that person will fit into their team. It's subjective, I know, but they silently ask themselves "can I work with him / her?". So yes, my school wasn't that cool or anywhere close to the Russel Group of Universities, but you know what, I held my own beside all those self-indulgent pompous twits posh kids from posh schools / backgrounds, and bagged myself a "posh" job. Lol!

Oh, one more thing: For my particular intake, I think we were 30 in number of which there were 4 blacks. 3 black girls and one black guy. I sometimes think we were carefully "race-selected".

Black girl1 - British Passport holder
Black girl2 - American Passport holder
Black girl3 - French Passport holder
Black guy - Nigerian passport

But funnily enough, we were all Nigerians (ethnic backgrounds) apart from the French girl. So I guess this might tie in with your statistics. I don't know what the % of blacks were for previous and subsequent intakes, but I'm guessing it might have been something similar.

Before the whites came to Africa, everyone would have had a skill or trade. You would have had family co-operative businesses which would have been passed down the generations so entrepreneurship was in the blood. Most of these businesses are still valid and useful today but we somehow look down on them as being primitive. The big problem is how we look at things, we don’t seem to know how to modernise ourselves in our own image without copying some alien practices.

Sagamite:


That is why they have the nickname "Jews of Nigeria".

I will always respect the Jews.

Damn!their entrepreneurial/ resilient spirits is something one can study in the university. They are very hard working.

We are only good in consuming.

moca:

It's a vicious cycle.
This is exactly what we do at home.
Too busy looking for jobs.

African migrants would spend about half a year's wages to cross seas to look for a job.

..@Sagamite you are so on point with your assertions..especially about Blacks being seen as cool idiots..
..There is this comedy called Big Bang Theory that i enjoy watching cos it is really funny.It has to do with funny but highly intelligent nerds..am not a racist but i could not help noticing that a whiteman had a representative amongst the cast,same with whitewoman,Jews(male and female) and Asian...but not a single black person ..but if it was one that has to do with no real intellectual prowess but being a player ,goofy and a sportsperson(preferably a basketball player),then a blackman will be casted.

..As far as i am concerned,it says a lot about the perceptions other races still have about us.Unfortunately black people are only interested in silly and mediocre stuffs like how much whitewomen love them via sex and their d**ks,or reeling out whitemans achievements to butteress their postulations in being better than women.(for men that is)

..Something really needs to be done,and crying 'racism'all the time does not cut it at all.

..I had to single out men here cos if they get it right then it is good for us..A soceity or community were the men are emasculated is dommed indeed.

SirShymexx:


Institutionalised racism in the UK is conspicuous and the ceiling might actually be the worst and most stringent in the world. If what's attainable in the US, which happens to be the standard, is used as a premise to measure it. When juxtaposition the country - relatively, the US might be a tad better cos you have more CEOs, millionaires, top executives, top academics etc.. And that has to do with the fact that the blacks over there have more sense of entitlement due to the history of the country, Affirmative Action, and their population being massive compared to blacks in the UK. However, everyday race baiting is more pronounced there due to the same factors - coupled with deeply segregated the country is. For example: there are so many cities/towns in America where the population is at least 80% black...you'll never find such in the UK (Lewisham borough has the highest population of blacks in the UK and I doubt we're even up to 30% of the population). The gift and the curse.

The reason why the ceiling in the UK might actually be the toughest to crack in the world is because it has three layers: tribalism, class problem, and institutionalised racism. With tribalism - you see that everyday in English vs. Scottish vs. Welsh vs. Irish vs. other Europeans - and this also affects black people. Ditto class problem between the aristocratic and OxBridge class vs. commoners, and blacks aren't also left out of this equation. Then you have the third layer which is the race factor. So you have three factors working against you as a black person, hence it's very difficult. You don't even need to look further than Prime Time TV to understand what's going on. Also, when you considered the fact the it's actually easier for an international student from Africa to get into OxBridge than a black student from the UK (check this: http://www.theguardian.com/education/2010/dec/06/oxford-colleges-no-black-students ) you will see why it's basically a vicious cycle. And once you get into corporate UK environment - you can't miss it cos it's so obvious and everyday at work is basically like walking on eggshells and your motto will always be: just don't get fired (insert Jacoby's voice here lol). Take a look at the FTSE 100 on the LSE: how many black CEOs and top executives are represented there? You can take a walk though the City of London and Canary Wharf during rush/work hours and that right there should tell you all you need to know.

Additionally, I think it will be difficult for new immigrants from Africa to demystify cos the UK has perfected the art of creating a bubble and most are contented with just leading a better life that what they had where they came from. Once they have a mortgage or council flat to rest their heads, a car to drive, and can feed themselves and family members - life's great. However, once they start aiming higher - it's right there in their faces. Conversely, someone who has lived through the system, as a black person, will always have a perfect understanding of what's going on cos of the sense of entitlement that comes with that space. I guess that's why there's a communication gap between the two groups and why certain folks will always tag those who speak about the obvious as race-baiters or using race as an excuse.

That said, it's their ancestral country regardless of the sins of the past. It's 2015 and I think we as black people should endeavour to start looking inwards and start creating our own. I believe we only thrive on being appendages to others (we let others build and look for ways to tag along) and this unique problem isn't a black diaspora thing, it's a universal black problem and it's also what's plaguing the African continent. We've the gift to do it, we're just too mentally/intellectually lazy to do anything on our own and we'd rather copy and paste from others, than build something that's uniquely ours. Hence we're only allowed to thrive at the bottom of the totem pole of everything. Just take a look at what the Asians are doing with communal economics, and you'd have no other choice than to envy them. And that's also the reason why they have it better.

P.S: Sis Efemena, I had to veer off topic a bit cos I wanted to post everything in one reply. I don't like getting involved in group threads like this one cos of all the infantile drama on this forum - but I had to answer ya bird-call.

I'm out.

Bird Call?

Shymexx behave yourself!!

But yes, thanks for your post, it's very insightful. Re: the bolded part - you're right on the money! Walking on egg shells is putting it lightly. I'm sorry to say, but as a black in that environment, you've got to work twice (or thrice) as hard as your non-negroid counterparts, for half the pay. Is it fair? No. It is what it is and at the end of the day, you're subconsciously made to feel you should be grateful you've even got that job in the first place! There's a guy who sits by me that chats all day with his team and when not chatting, is busy browsing the net on Cricket games, etc. Makes you wonder how he manages to get anything done at all. But then again, that might be their way getting stress relief, who knows.

Re: Canary Wharf, you beat me to it. I was going to mention that too - and you're right again. It stares you in the face everyday. There are blacks there but how many, compared to the others?

I agree with a lot of what you've posted here. As per the Asians, I think one reason why they're so successful is because they stick together. You need to see them at lunch time (esp. the males who hardly speak any English but are brilliant programmers / techie guys). You'll find 10 of them sitting together eating their homemade lunch packs, yapping away in their dialects. How many dudu (Naija people) d'you get sitting together helping each other out? Rather, what you'll find is us backstabbing each other. Not saying I don't have good Naija friends in that environment, I do - but we can't hold a candle to the Asians when it comes to togetherness. That's something we need to learn.

EfemenaXY:

Thanks for this Saga.

Yes, I wanted to address the earlier point you made about swift career progression of Kweku from the BackOffice to the FrontOffice, but this is going to be purely from my experiences and what I've seen for myself.

Kweku's progression really isn't that unusual in the Investment Banking environment if he joined in on the Graduate Scheme. I too joined in on a similar scheme shortly after obtaining my Masters Degree (another point I'll address). You don't even need to have that much experience as a Graduate Trainee but you must demonstrate the drive, motivation, and of course, good grades to back you up too.

Regarding the graduate scheme I was on, it ran on a series of (optional) placements. I say optional because although not mandatory, graduates were encouraged to broaden their experiences by working in different areas of the bank. For those of us in Investment Banking Technology (IB Tech) we had to run with that position for at least two and a half years, out of which it was mandatory to spend at least one year in a particular role (the first six months to get to grips with the job and the latter six months to demonstrate what you've learnt / deliver the goods). Hiring managers were made to understand that such graduates could move onto any area of the bank they so wished, irrespective of what their performance rankings were once their one year tenure was up (but obviously, if you were completely crappy at your job, you'll get an awful reference feedback and any other potential manager could choose to hire or not hire you at their discretion - it was subjective, if you get what I mean).

So potentially, those of us in IB Tech could out of those 2^1/2 years rotate 2 or 3 years. Some chose to remain were they were and others chose to explore. I think (can't remember) for those in Operations, their tenures were shorter. 6 - 9 months was all they needed in a particular role before moving - based on the assumption that working in Operations was far easier than Technology. Additionally, graduates were encouraged to network with others including potential hiring managers via any one of the numerous corporate bonding activities, social events, lunches / dinners / Friday evening pub quizzes / get-togethers. There's so much I can't list them all. So it's very possible that Kweku could have been an extrovert who easily socialized and was able to network efficiently. His progression isn't that surprising either.

On the graduate scheme it's been Analyst --> AVP --> VP --> Exec Dir --> MD and onwards. On completion of the graduate scheme, if you did well, you become an AVP and shortly afterwards a VP all in the span of 3-5 years. If you came in via the non-graduate route, it'll be Analyst --> Associate --> VP --> Exec and son on.

If you do well or if you do exceptionally?

To my knowledge, it is very rare to see people jump the Associate grade.

It just wouldn't make financial sense to the executive team. Worse still when they will be glad to have the job in the first place.

At worst, if people are good, they just spend less time at the Associate grade before moving up.

My understanding is that the norm is people spend 3 years at each grade. So getting to VP/Director should take about 8/9 years.

The fact he was a back office staff to start with, also makes it strange he did it in 5 years.

He must have been good and connected.

EfemenaXY:

Now, to the bit regarding the type of uni one attended. Sure, employers will always actively source out high performing graduates from top elite schools but that doesn't mean they don't look elsewhere. I got my first degree from Naija (UNN) and then my Masters degree from a not so great Uni over here. Infact, I tried my best to get into schools like Imperial College (like my dad did way back in the 70's on scholarship), but for where. It was tough. Of the six Universities I applied for, five said "No". I was so upset, I didn't even read my mails for a month and nearly missed the sixth one that offered me a place. But guess what, after I'd accepted the offer, I found out that my school was at the bottom of the league table. Saga, bottom oh! not last but one, or third to last - but the very bottom. It didn't help either during the course to see my course mates drop off like flies. Of the six of us who started, I was the only one from that set that completed the darn course and got my degree (thanks to my dad's encouragement). He used to say the Uni wasn't as important as completing the course successfully. "Just get your certificate girl!" was what he told me.

Anyway, my point is: yes, my Uni was crappy but what managers look out for when interviewing someone, (i.e: apart from their qualifications, experiences, and interpersonal skills) is whether that person will fit into their team. It's subjective, I know, but they silently ask themselves "can I work with him / her?". So yes, my school wasn't that cool or anywhere close to the Russel Group of Universities, but you know what, I held my own beside all those self-indulgent pompous twits posh kids from posh schools / backgrounds, and bagged myself a "posh" job. Lol!

That is fantastic.

An intelligent person is an intelligent person.

The ones that don't go to top unis still have a good chance to do well.

A top uni just gives you a head start and a gloss. To finish the race is different.

Be proud of what comes out of your mouth more than what university you attended.

EfemenaXY:

Oh, one more thing: For my particular intake, I think we were 30 in number of which there were 4 blacks. 3 black girls and one black guy. I sometimes think we were carefully "race-selected".

Black girl1 - British Passport holder
Black girl2 - American Passport holder
Black girl3 - French Passport holder
Black guy - Nigerian passport

But funnily enough, we were all Nigerians (ethnic backgrounds) apart from the French girl. So I guess this might tie in with your statistics. I don't know what the % of blacks were for previous and subsequent intakes, but I'm guessing it might have been something similar.

The stats I gave was a mix of Black African and Black other. I only added them up because I could not get data that separates percentages of Black British overall population.

The hard copy data I have differentiates. Trust me, Black African had 90% of all those percentages. Which mainly means Nigerian and Ghanaian.

We carry the black race in the UK.

moca:

I will always respect the Jews.

Damn!their entrepreneurial/ resilient spirits is something one can study in the university. They are very hard working.

We are only good in consuming.

We are also good at showing off and looking cool.

Also, we can dance.



Black people.

Ngokafor:


..@Sagamite you are so on point with your assertions..especially about Blacks being seen as cool idiots..
..There is this comedy called Big Bang Theory that i enjoy watching cos it is really funny.It has to do with funny but highly intelligent nerds..am not a racist but i could not help noticing that a whiteman had a representative amongst the cast,same with whitewoman,Jews(male and female) and Asian...but not a single black person ..but if it was one that has to do with no real intellectual prowess but being a player ,goofy and a sportsperson(preferably a basketball player),then a blackman will be casted.

..As far as i am concerned,it says a lot about the perceptions other races still have about us.Unfortunately black people are only interested in silly and mediocre stuffs like how much whitewomen love them via sex and their d**ks,or reeling out whitemans achievements to butteress their postulations in being better than women.(for men that is)

..Something really needs to be done,and crying 'racism'all the time does not cut it at all.

..I had to single out men here cos if they get it right then it is good for us..A soceity or community were the men are emasculated is dommed indeed.

Yep.

Institutional stereotype.

The way we portray ourselves and our achievements does not render us to be stereotyped as intelligent. Especially in technology.

Big Bang Theory is based on people in Caltech.

About half of Caltech student population is Asian (Chinko and Indo). 1% are black.

Check out the stats for blacks in American Football, Basketball and in prisons.

Sagamite:


If you do well or if you do exceptionally?

To my knowledge, it is very rare to see people jump the Associate grade.

It just wouldn't make financial sense to the executive team. Worse still when they will be glad to have the job in the first place.

At worst, if people are good, they just spend less time at the Associate grade before moving up.

My understanding is that the norm is people spend 3 years at each grade. So getting to VP/Director should take about 8/9 years.

The fact he was a back office staff to start with, also makes it strange he did it in 5 years.

He must have been good and connected.

Saga, it's more common than you think oh!

I sometimes think I shouldn't have jumped ship (you know, stay for a couple of years, then move on to another Investment Bank and demand a much bigger pay packet, stay for a couple more years then move on to another and request an even bigger packet - a.k.a Banking Ashewoism...lol!) because for the few that stayed back faithfully, are all VPs now. Guys and girls (Asians), and one of them an Italian guy is even an Exec. I spoke to him.

Don't ask about the black folks from my set. They all left just like I did.

Sagamite:
That is fantastic.

An intelligent person is an intelligent person.

The ones that don't go to top unis still have a good chance to do well.

A top uni just gives you a head start and a gloss. To finish the race is different.

Be proud of what comes out of your mouth more than what university you attended.

Thanks!

Sagamite:
The stats I gave was a mix of Black African and Black other. I only added them up because I could not get data that separates percentages of Black British overall population.

The hard copy data I have differentiates. Trust me, Black African had 90% of all those percentages. Which mainly means Nigerian and Ghanaian.

We carry the black race in the UK.

I cannot fault that one bit. So true. And this is similar to my experience too.

cococandy:
Damiso and 2catwoman. You're right about the Asian communities. Even here, they run the show on black beauty products. And boy do they know the market.
You'd think something we use so much would be on our list of things to invest in.

One more thing they've started doing is African food. On a few occasions my African store didn't have everything I wanted but sure enough, Asian food stores have them. Those people have ijebu/upper iweka blood in them.

I think what helps them is that their identity is still intact and they take great pride in being who they are. There's hardly any major town or city you go to without it having an Asian sector that's just Asian. From buildings to language and everything. Just like stepping into the real deal.

Blacks despite our population don't have anything like that. There's like no pride in our culture. Maybe slavery is really to blame for that. Or maybe we don't really have any honorable cultural practices worth preserving.

Ohhhhh!!! Cococandy, you can say that again! A thousand times!

We take absolutely no pride in our African heritage / culture. We're so enshrined in the foreign stuff, it makes my heart bleed. And I'm referring to the the religious aspect. How can we preserve ours, when we've got folk actively doing everything they can to banish our heritage? Where anything deeply African is viewed with mistrust and seen as evil voodoo?

Let's put this in perspective. The British, while flying "high" colonizing vast amount of lands and introducing Christianity touched on India didn't they? Did the Indians for example do away with their culture & religion? No. Aren't they still actively practising Buddhism? Yes. I mean, they took modernization up their sleeves, accepted it, and let it run along with their culture/religion.

But what did we Africans do (still doing) when the missionaries brought Christianity? We dump ours in favour of the other to the point where you wonder if we're Jewish - because let's face it, Christianity is based on the Jewish culture / religion. Why couldn't we keep the best parts of our culture whilst running with modernization, just like the Asians? They've got pride in who they are because they upheld their cultures, while we try to destroy ours.

Religion and culture are deeply intertwined, and they define the very essence of who a people / race are. Without it, what are we, really?

moca:

Heheheheee,salsera,i will beat u o! Had no choice than to applaud the writer. He should be a columnist somewhere.
Honestly, can't remember when last I read something this good here.

@Efe, that why I love u, u went to church unlike edwife that was waiting for futball.
Pray her team don't win

Love you too Moca-licious-Moca.

salsera:


Hehe

Even moca's usual style of writing changed after reading Sagamite's post.



I like Sagamite's perspective. I have only lived in the West as a child and as an adult for educational purposes so I don't think I could contribute to the topic as such.

My childhood experiences are probably coloured by naivety so I don't think they count. As much as I went to both catholic school and a private school and I was only one out 3 black children I didn't 'get' what racism was.

@Efemenaxy

Lol there was this post of Saga's on Empire series that I read. Talk about pouring cold water on a fire, I still finished the series but Na side eye I give all the plots.

Lol! Haven't read it Salsera, but I'll take a look at it.

EfemenaXY:


Ohhhhh!!! Cococandy, you can say that again! A thousand times!

We take absolutely no pride in our African heritage / culture. We're so enshrined in the foreign stuff, it makes my heart bleed. And I'm referring to the the religious aspect. How can we preserve ours, when we've got folk actively doing everything they can to banish our heritage? Where anything deeply African is viewed with mistrust and seen as evil voodoo?

Let's put this in perspective. The British, while flying "high" colonizing vast amount of lands and introducing Christianity touched on India didn't they? Did the Indians for example do away with their culture & religion? No. Aren't they still actively practising Buddhism? Yes. I mean, they took modernization up their sleeves, accepted it, and let it run along with their culture/religion.

But what did we Africans do (still doing) when the missionaries brought Christianity? We dump ours in favour of the other to the point where you wonder if we're Jewish - because let's face it, Christianity is based on the Jewish culture / religion. Why couldn't we keep the best parts of our culture whilst running with modernization, just like the Asians? They've got pride in who they are because they upheld their cultures, while we try to destroy ours.

Religion and culture and deeply intertwined, and they define the very essence of who a people / race are. Without it, what are we, really?

I have been following this discussion for a while now and it is nice to see that people can discuss important topics in a civil manner on NL.
I think you and Sagamite have made very enriching contributions and I hope you do not mind me butting in.

I disagree with you and Cococandy in this respect though.
Many, if not even most Nigerians, are very proud of their culture. There are very few Nigerians who reason like Sagamite and are thus critical of Nigerians, Nigeria, its people's mentality and behavior.

And to be honest with you, I think that it is this (often misplaced) pride (along with other reasons) that hinders them from doing better. It serves people to feel better about themselves (think of the slogan "Giant of Africa" ) instead of facing the reality. Nigeria is quite conservative when it comes to culture (even though the minds of the younger generations are being increasingly globalized now) and I can't help but think that this mindset is one of the reasons why Nigerians are not able to exhibit anything in the field of innovation, be it social, cultural or technological or anything else.

By the way, the biggest religion in India is Hinduism and not Buddhism and there are millions of Christians in India but it is not pride that did not allow for Christianity to spread wider around this country but the fact that the British did not allow the missionaries to enter India for almost 200 years. I will have to do some more reading on this topic.

The point I am making is that Nigerians are too proud and too proud of the wrong things. And they lack the spirit of innovation. They will rather stuck to customs and practices that hinder them from development, all in the name of culture and tradition, than on innovation.

I have just brainstormed my ideas, sort of, so pardon my lack of coherence in this post.

Sagamite:


We are also good at showing off and looking cool.

Also, we can dance.



Black people.

.
U r a comedian!




Efe darling!

Sagamite:


We are also good at showing off and looking cool.

Also, we can dance.



Black people.

And organizing protests.

Just to add another dimension to the discussion . . why do we work?
Money? fulfiment? recogniton?
What is considered the glass ceiling? Is it measured by wage, job title, number of subordinates? What are peoples individual goals? . . . . .

Sagamite I think touched on lower level jobs being easier to get into for black people. If you are lucky and able to negotiate, that lower entry job may actually be better for you than senior management depending on your goals.

Moving to self employment. I know a lady who decorates events. She charges approx £5k per event and she can do 2 on a Saturday. I have a friend who charged N1500 yesterday for 200 cocktails, fruit tree and a chocolate fountain hire. She had 2 events this weekend. I dont know how much she charged for the other.

To suceed, depends on finding a gap, being sensible, Knowing your strengths, working hard but most importantly the Grace of God.

EfemenaXY:
Finally, some intelligent talk.



?

just why did you choose to set up sirshymexx? why feed him to sagamite to chew?

sirshymexx, you aren't smart. You were called out to say something you know nothing about and you f000lishly raced to the thread to display your ghetto vocab.

Now,I need to finish you off. where do we meet?

damiso:


I believe in that but I think there are some factors/environments that encourage and bring it fore. We talk about jews, igbos, ijebu people being entrepreural but I think its something that children growinh up in those communities subconsciously emulate.

My mum had never had just one stream of income and I had been going to help in shop from about 6 years old . Right from university I would sell stuff to my friends and even when job searching I was always looking for gaps that I could fill . While it might be partly inborn I think growing up in that environment brought it to the fore a bit

You're right

It is definitely more than nature. Nurture also plays an important part.

I believe we also need to learn how to save & invest.

moca:
@Buky, dont go too far. It's already happening here.
There is a govt parastatal here that don't advertise for recruitment, recruit based on recommendations from the big shots in the society like top ceo's and top politicians.

If they will mistakenly look towards ur direction, ur school Alma matter matters a lot.

We just need to up our game to A class.

Avalon316:


just why did you choose to set up sirshymexx? why feed him to sagamite to chew?

sirshymexx, you aren't smart. You were called out to say something you know nothing about and you f000lishly raced to the thread to display your ghetto vocab.

Now,I need to finish you off. where do we meet?

Please, these insults an insinuations aren't necessary.

I respect both posters immensely and yes, they have differing views but were kind enough to respond to my call. We don't all have to agree on certain topics / issues and diversity is what makes the world go round.

I didn't set SirShymexx up and I know he knows I wouldn't descend to that level. I take each person for how they are, so kindly stop stirring things up here. If you're looking for cheap fights to entertain yourself with, then go create a thread for it.

Thank You.

Just why I love efemenaxy.

Nice discussion.
What would be the suggestion for black children who will most likely be the only black child in school,only black.child/children in the neighbourhood?

There are very very few black people around here,in my area we are the only ones and to be honest I'm quite worried about the kids.

How do I instill excellence and self confidence in them?A sense of identity too?

I am actively now considering shelling for school fees in the belief that it may bring some sort of advantage to my kids? Straight from primary down to Secondary.

Theres no grammar schools here as they believe segregating children according to ability is not right

I am afraid of the inevitable why is my hair this way why is my skin this way question.What are the answers to give?

Then what books to read to keep their sense of Africa alive? Should I actively seek out black people?

We have even considered moving to England just for the kids not to feel alone.The blacks we know here are just like 4 or 5 and live far away in other counties.


How to raise kids to excel in a place where they are the only African children essentially is the question.

Mindfulness:


I have been following this discussion for a while now and it is nice to see that people can discuss important topics in a civil manner on NL.
I think you and Sagamite have made very enriching contributions and I hope you do not mind me butting in.

I disagree with you and Cococandy in this respect though.
Many, if not even most Nigerians, are very proud of their culture. There are very few Nigerians who reason like Sagamite and are thus critical of Nigerians, Nigeria, its people's mentality and behavior.

And to be honest with you, I think that it is this (often misplaced) pride (along with other reasons) that hinders them from doing better. It serves people to feel better about themselves (think of the slogan "Giant of Africa" ) instead of facing the reality. Nigeria is quite conservative when it comes to culture (even though the minds of the younger generations are being increasingly globalized now) and I can't help but think that this mindset is one of the reasons why Nigerians are not able to exhibit anything in the field of innovation, be it social, cultural or technological or anything else.

By the way, the biggest religion in India is Hinduism and not Buddhism and there are millions of Christians in India but it is not pride that did not allow for Christianity to spread wider around this country but the fact that the British did not allow the missionaries to enter India for almost 200 years. I will have to do some more reading on this topic.

[bThe point I am making is that Nigerians are too proud and too proud of the wrong things. And they lack the spirit of innovation. They will rather stuck to customs and practices that hinder them from development, all in the name of culture and tradition, than on innovation[/b].

I have just brainstormed my ideas, sort of, so pardon my lack of coherence in this post.

@bold

I agree with you

Sagamite:


If you do well or if you do exceptionally?

To my knowledge, it is very rare to see people jump the Associate grade.

It just wouldn't make financial sense to the executive team. Worse still when they will be glad to have the job in the first place.

At worst, if people are good, they just spend less time at the Associate grade before moving up.

My understanding is that the norm is people spend 3 years at each grade. So getting to VP/Director should take about 8/9 years.

The fact he was a back office staff to start with, also makes it strange he did it in 5 years.

He must have been good and connected.



That is fantastic.

An intelligent person is an intelligent person.

The ones that don't go to top unis still have a good chance to do well.

A top uni just gives you a head start and a gloss. To finish the race is different.

Be proud of what comes out of your mouth more than what university you attended.



The stats I gave was a mix of Black African and Black other. I only added them up because I could not get data that separates percentages of Black British overall population.

The hard copy data I have differentiates. Trust me, Black African had 90% of all those percentages. Which mainly means Nigerian and Ghanaian.

We carry the black race in the UK.

I read that's why Inner London schools over the last couple of years have improved GCSE & A level result because of the the high black immigrant population.

A lot of Nigerian and Ghanian parents have high academic expectations for their children. I have one who I talk with in church (work with the youths)at the moment whose dad has told its either Oxbridge/Rusell Group or nothing. He won't even entertain talks of any other options.The poor gal is very bright but she told me that she feels under sooooo much pressure that she feels she will crack.she is taking Ibacc and got 10 As and 1 B at GCSE.

Its ok for me to talk to her now as its not my child but even as it is sometimes I know I over push my 5 year old

Just like in my area but we plan to send the kids to visit home as often as possible.

You might wanna do that. There's really not much you can do about promoting your own culture when singled out among people of other culture.

Jahblessme:
Nice discussion.
What would be the suggestion for black children who will most likely be the only black child in school,only black.child/children in the neighbourhood?

There are very very few black people around here,in my area we are the only ones and to be honest I'm quite worried about the kids.

How do I instill excellence and self confidence in them?A sense of identity too?

I am actively now considering shelling for school fees in the belief that it may bring some sort of advantage to my kids? Straight from primary down to Secondary.

Theres no grammar schools here as they believe segregating children according to ability is not right

I am afraid of the inevitable why is my hair this way why is my skin this way question.What are the answers to give?

Then what books to read to keep their sense of Africa alive? Should I actively seek out black people?

We have even considered moving to England just for the kids not to feel alone.The blacks we know here are just like 4 or 5 and live far away in other counties.


How to raise kids to excel in a place where they are the only African children essentially is the question.

tearoses:
Just to add another dimension to the discussion . . why do we work?
Money? fulfiment? recogniton?
What is considered the glass ceiling? Is it measured by wage, job title, number of subordinates? What are peoples individual goals? . . . . .

Sagamite I think touched on lower level jobs being easier to get into for black people. If you are lucky and able to negotiate, that lower entry job may actually be better for you than senior management depending on your goals.

Moving to self employment. I know a lady who decorates events. She charges approx £5k per event and she can do 2 on a Saturday. I have a friend who charged N1500 yesterday for 200 cocktails, fruit tree and a chocolate fountain hire. She had 2 events this weekend. I dont know how much she charged for the other.

To suceed, depends on finding a gap, being sensible, Knowing your strengths, working hard but most importantly the Grace of God.

And trust tearoses to bring the "Iyalaje" angle to it all...

cococandy:
Just like in my area but we plan to send the kids to visit home as often as possible.

You might wanna do that. There's really not much you can do about promoting your own culture when singled out among people of other culture.

Thank.you cococandy..Kids are actually come with their own complications.

Jahblessme:


Thank.you cococandy..Kids are actually come with their own complications.

I think the answer is with you. As parents you are their first impression.

Invest in books on Africa and if you are Nigerian on Nigerian history / Nigerian authors.
Add to their personal libraries expand their knowledge beyond just what the educational system has to offer where you are. Show them the Nigerian map. Travel often for meet-ups with family, visit areas where the diversity of races is wider.

A former classmate of mine in diaspora has a children's books targeted at 2-6 year olds based on Nigerian folklore.

Sagamite:

The hard copy data I have differentiates. Trust me, Black African had 90% of all those percentages. Which mainly means Nigerian and Ghanaian.

We carry the black race in the UK.

Unfortunately this is very true. Most high achieving Blacks in the uk are of African descent(Nigerians closely followed by Ghanians). Statistics in the Education sector has shown that.