Empredboy:
why are u contradicting ur self. Shabi u are a bible believer than the catholics so I expect u to know where the infants will go afterall the Bible didn't stopped them from been baptised. Also Christ commands the children to come... (Matt. 19:14).

Unlike you and your cohorts,I am humble enough to admit that I do not know what God's plan is for infants. I will not add to nor subtract from the scriptures like you and your cohorts have been doing.


The fact remains that infant baptism is not a scriptural teaching.

uboma:




Unlike you and your cohorts,I am humble enough to admit that I do not know what God's plan is for infants. I will not add to nor subtract from the scriptures like you and your cohorts have been doing.


The fact remains that infant baptism is not a scriptural teaching.

OK let's do it this way. I don't want to add nor subtract s
as u said. But what does the Bible means by household in the baptism saga? To a lay man like u and i it meant adult and young. Does that mean I have added infant (young) or you who can't show us where it prohibited infant from been baptised. That means you are the one Rev 22:18 is talking to. Note : I have not added nor subtracted but you have subtracted.

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Empredboy:
OK let's do it this way. I don't want to add nor subtract s
as u said. But what does the Bible means by household in the baptism saga? To a lay man like u and i it meant adult and young. Does that mean I have added infant (young) or you who can't show us where it prohibited infant from been baptised. That means you are the one Rev 22:18 is talking to. Note : I have not added nor subtracted but you have subtracted.

It is best left at household as the Bible puts it. It is possible not to have infants within a certain household. Don't you agree?

So since the Bible does not specifically use the word, infants, why are you adding to the Bible?

uboma:



It is best left at household as the Bible puts it. It is possible not to have infants within a certain household. Don't you agree?

So since the Bible does not specifically use the word, infants, why are you adding to the Bible?

read all the households in these chapters and u want to tell me there won't be infant there? Abah!!! (Acts
16:15). " (Acts 16:33). (1 Cor.
1:16).so u mean all these people are adults. OK tell me where Christ or Bible kicked against children not even baptism again oooo. I mean where Bible say the children should be old enough to know the word of God before they can be accepted into the church?

Ubenedictus:

if the bible was so clear and straight forward why do we have over 30,000 protestant sects all teaching different doctrines?

What do you mean by it not being straightforward?

As for different sects, both Jesus and Paul's words indicate that there will be sects, and false xtians. Don't blame it on God's word the bible.

Ubenedictus:
simple question, the church and the bible which is older?


The bible has NEVER been the sole authority in d christian church. Just the way the constitution is not d sole source of authority in nigeria, d courts must interprete what it says.

During the time of the apostles, the apostle themselves and the elders were d teaching authority in d church along with d old testament. It was d apostles and elders who interpreted and taught what was written by d prophets.
After the apostles died their teaching came down as letters (which d church lata gathered and calld d bible), and the witness of their disciples who learnt from them and transmit the faith (dis is calld apostolic tradition), d elders were still d teaching authority.
So there has been 3 distinct source of authority in d church, d bible, apostolic tradition and the churchs' teaching authority.

*bold. I will say the bible. Prior to the establishment of the church, books were already written and even prophecies said.

The apostles, teaching authority? Isn't that too much reputation for men? Vessels sound appropriate.

Okay the bible may not be the sole authority,like others why is it not brought to the fore-front of catholic teaching and worship.

uboma:



I laugh in Swahili

Keep deceiving yourself that the Catholic Church is older than the Bible which is God's word.

you can laugh in chinese for all I care but that doesn't change the undisputable fact that the church is much older than the bible you carry around. The church compiled that bible you are holding abt 300yrs after the death of Christ. That means for 300yrs d early xtians didn't use the bible as we have it today.

Ubenedictus:
you can laugh in chinese for all I care but that doesn't change the undisputable fact that the church is much older than the bible you carry around. The church compiled that bible you are holding abt 300yrs after the death of Christ. That means for 300yrs d early xtians didn't use the bible as we have it today.

As i continue to laugh in Swahili at your false belief of the Church (Catholic) being older than the Bible and that the Church (Catholic) compiled the Bible, you can continue to wallow in your ignorance and unwillingness to reason objectively.

You have being brainwashed beyond repair and i only pity the naive ones who will fall victim to your false teachings

uboma:



As i continue to laugh in Swahili at your false belief of the Church (Catholic) being older than the Bible and that the Church (Catholic) compiled the Bible, you can continue to wallow in your ignorance and unwillingness to reason objectively.

You have being brainwashed beyond repair and i only pity the naive ones who will fall victim to your false teachings

since you believe so much in Bible plz show us where you have issues with the church instead of these your assumptions

uboma:



As i continue to laugh in Swahili at your false belief of the Church (Catholic) being older than the Bible and that the Church (Catholic) compiled the Bible, you can continue to wallow in your ignorance and unwillingness to reason objectively.

You have being brainwashed beyond repair and i only pity the naive ones who will fall victim to your false teachings

The gospels and letters were written to the established church,right? The writings are records of what happened, not so?
If the Catholic Church did not compile the bible, who did?And why do you believe in the bible?

Speechless3:

*bold. I will say the bible. Prior to the establishment of the church, books were already written and even prophecies said.

prior to the establishment of d church only the old testament was written! Is ur bible a old testament only bible? Are u a jew? It was after d establishment of the church that the new testament was written, 300yrs later it was compiled and called d bible. So the church is older than the bible in its present form.

The apostles, teaching authority? Isn't that too much reputation for men? Vessels sound appropriate.

The apostles had a teaching authority whether u like d word or not, Jesus said he who hears u hears me, that is a teaching authority. Whether u call them vessels or not they had a teaching authority.

Okay the bible may not be the sole authority,like others why is it not brought to the fore-front of catholic teaching and worship.

who told u the bible is not at the forefront of catholic teaching and worship, at mass what is read? What do catholic first quote when they teach doctrine. The catholic worship is of two parts, d first part is dat of d Word. Sorry u are wrong on d above.

uboma:



As i continue to laugh in Swahili at your false belief of the Church (Catholic) being older than the Bible and that the Church (Catholic) compiled the Bible, you can continue to wallow in your ignorance and unwillingness to reason objectively.

You have being brainwashed beyond repair and i only pity the naive ones who will fall victim to your false teachings

since u are mr objectivity, kindly tell us who compiled the bible, inform d people u call ignorant.

Ubenedictus:
since u are mr objectivity, kindly tell us who compiled the bible, inform d people u call ignorant.

I see no need to engage you on any further conversation on this issue because like i pointed out earlier, you have been brainwashed beyond repair.


In your ignorance you have chosen to promote your false teachings/doctrines.


Earlier you said that the Bible is not straight-forward. If a supposed Christian like you could say that, then why should i continue conversing with you. You and your like minds are simply APOSTATES.

uboma:



I see no need to engage you on any further conversation on this issue because like i pointed out earlier, you have been brainwashed beyond repair.


In your ignorance you have chosen to promote your false teachings/doctrines.


Earlier you said that the Bible is not straight-forward. If a supposed Christian like you could say that, then why should i continue conversing with you. You and your like minds are simply APOSTATES.

you are trying to run with ur tail between ur legs! U cant even tell who compiled d bible yet u call me ignorant.

uboma:




Your Pope who is the highest on the hieracy of the Catholic Church is as imperfect like you and i. He is a sinner just like the Bible rightly pointed out that we are all sinners.

Your doctrines therefore cannot be accurate. Your doctrines are simply human traditions formulated to brainwash people like you.

paul was also imperfect, he was also a sinner but he taught perfect doctrines.

Your argument is fallacious and ur logic wrong.

uboma:



As i continue to laugh in Swahili at your false belief of the Church (Catholic) being older than the Bible and that the Church (Catholic) compiled the Bible, you can continue to wallow in your ignorance and unwillingness to reason objectively.

You have being brainwashed beyond repair and i only pity the naive ones who will fall victim to your false teachings

Was there a church before the Bible?
(Remember Saul was persecuting the Church before he became The Paul that wrote the books in the bible.)

Kamxin:
Laughable people

You never see anything yet. Read on.... you go roll for wet floor. I don't know how these guys do it, but how can someone stand on the same branch they are cutting. Insane if you ask me.

uboma:




Unlike you and your cohorts,I am humble enough to admit that I do not know what God's plan is for infants. I will not add to nor subtract from the scriptures like you and your cohorts have been doing.


The fact remains that infant baptism is not a scriptural teaching.

You can as well be humble enough to admit that the bible never said "Baptize ALL members of the household BUT infants".

Baptism is the circumcision of the New Covenant. Where infants circumcised or not? They were.

Jesus said " Jesus said, "Let the little children come to me, and do
not hinder them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to
such as these."

He never said wait till they are older, then bring them to me.

dmandy:


You can as well be humble enough to admit that the bible never said "Baptize ALL members of the household BUT infants".

You can go and twist the Bible for all I care. This is what you and your like minded fellows do, deceive naïve people.

Cite just one example of a recorded case from the Bible where an infant was sprinkled with water, all in the name of being baptized. Even Jesus Christ, the role model for Christians was not baptized as an infant but as a full grown man.

Keep wallowing in ignorance.

Speechless3:


hmmm! But the bible is not straight forward, so i was told by my priest, and he has never told me a lie dear.

Umm will pick up my bible but nat without informing him first.

Thanks anyway.

The underlined is the spirit of the Anti Christ talking; anyone who says the Bible is NOT straight forward (that's to say, it cannot be trusted) is possessed by the spirit of the Anti Christ.


Galatians 1:8-9

But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be under a divine curse! As we have said before, even now I say again: If anyone is preaching a gospel to you contrary to what you received, let him be accursed!

^^^

Those are the words of the early apostles under the inspiration of the holy ghost written over two centuries before the Catholic Church came into the picture of things! Which would you believe? Your Church/Priest or a holy ghost inspired message from the apostolic Fathers?


Philippians 2:12

Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

^^^

If you are having problems identifying the truth, fast and pray in honesty, truth and spirit for the spiritual baptism of the holy ghost. And also study the Bible to show yourself approved unto God! Salvation is a personal thing!

DoubleDeeX:


The underlined is the spirit of the Anti Christ talking; anyone who says the Bible is NOT straight forward (that's to say, it cannot be trusted) is possessed by the spirit of the Anti Christ

Matthew 13:36
When Jesus left the crowd and gone indoors, his disciples came to Him and said, "Tell us what the parable about the weeds in the field means."
This simply means the word of Jesus is not straight forward since the apostles could not comprehend.
The word of God is spirit (John 6:63), so with the aid of the Holy spirit Christ sent to the church it can be understood.

The question every protestant on this thread has been evading is why can't the thousands of protestant denominations agree on the same doctrine?
Or is the spirit leading each denomination different from the other?
To promote opposite truth.

Kamxin:


Matthew 13:36
When Jesus left the crowd and gone indoors, his disciples came to Him and said, "Tell us what the parable about the weeds in the field means."
This simply means the word of Jesus is not straight forward since the apostles could not comprehend.
The word of God is spirit (John 6:63), so with the aid of the Holy spirit Christ sent to the church it can be understood.

The question every protestant on this thread has been evading is why can't the thousands of protestant denominations agree on the same doctrine?
Or is the spirit leading each denomination different from the other?
To promote opposite truth.

Interpretation sure belongs to God. Just as you said, with Gods spirit the bible would be understood.

However, pointing at protestantism as a reason to say the bible is not straightforward is deceptive. All catholics do not all agree on every doctrine. Is the spirit leading each of you? Do you not all join the Protestants in international association of churches? Were you guys previously not among CAN? Why form alliance with heretics as you assume?

The sects you see today are fulfilment of prophesy by Jesus. Do not blame it on Gods word.

JMAN05:

Interpretation sure belongs to God. Just as you said, with Gods spirit the bible would be understood.
However, pointing at protestantism as a reason to say the bible is not straightforward is deceptive. All catholics do not all agree on every doctrine. Is the spirit leading each of you? Do you not all join the Protestants in international association of churches? Were you guys previously not among CAN? Why form alliance with heretics as you assume?
The sects you see today are fulfilment of prophesy by Jesus. Do not blame it on Gods word.

The Catholic Church universally proclaims the same doctrines. If any individual chooses to argue or disagree with the Church, it's the individual's problem which does nut change the Church's doctrines.

JMAN05:


However, pointing at protestantism as a reason to say the bible is not straightforward is deceptive.

I pointed at the book of Matthew not protestants.
So react to the book of Matthew.

JMAN05:

All catholics do not all agree on every doctrine. Is the spirit leading each of you? Do you not all join the Protestants in international association of churches? Were you guys previously not among CAN?

Catholic doctrines are same throughout the world.
Rejection of any Catholic doctrine by anyone makes him a protestant, just like you. The transition is automatic.

So my question still stand,
why can't the thousands of protestant denominations agree on the same doctrine?
The spirit that guide protestants give you people different will of God that is opposite of one another, only to bring you people together to lambast the holy mother church.

Speechless3:
Well you make sense somehow but you protestants are always too forward.

Tell me these false doctrines again and prove that they'wrong

Thanks!

the bible you read now has been tampered with,altered..e.t.c by the catholic church. Who told you that you're reading what was written by the original authors? There are many books which are supposed to be in the bible which are not there. You may wanna visit the Vatican library for more info[some were added while those which opposed the teachings of the church were removed],now you have the PROTESTANTS[who broke away from The Church]with their own bible translations,..they also has tampered with the Holy book.

The catholic church tends to over-look the bible because they believe it is not important...they "wrote" it,so why bother taking inspiration or follow its teaching? Am not castigating any party here but I believe that christianity is getting it all wrong,It marvels me whenever I hear people arguing on which church is the best...like seriously? If the church has remained as it was before there wouldn't be any anglican church,penticostal churches,methodist church,russian orthodox,The orthodox church,e.t.c there would be only The Roman catholic Church.


Now I read somewhere that Catholics practice idolatory...yea it's true,but am gonna ask you a dumb question? WHAT IS IDOLARTORY AND DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF THAT PRACTISING IDOLATORY IS A SIN? Now don't quote a verse from the bible...it's not relevant anymore,it has been misinterpreted numerous times,defiled and... I don't wanna sound like an atheist[am not one,just someone with common sense]


when you have people who are once part of your "evil" practice trying to rubbish your belief because they believe they are now "wiser" and more "enlightened" I think that calls for a serious questioning.
At least I've been opportuned to attend various churches[am a catholic...at least I believe I am] some for over a period of time...-months-years...and you know my conclusion? You can't be a protestant,catholic,e.t.c if you don't turn a blind eye to all there flaws,you have to be a fanatic....

In the end all of them[churches] are just living in ignorance..and I refuse to be ignorant. May God help us dear...

loksman:
the bible you read now has been tampered with,altered..e.t.c by the catholic church. Who told you that you're reading what was written by the original authors? There are many books which are supposed to be in the bible which are not there. You may wanna visit the Vatican library for more info[some were added while those which opposed the teachings of the church were removed],now you have the PROTESTANTS[who broke away from The Church]with their own bible translations,..they also has tampered with the Holy book.
The catholic church tends to over-look the bible because they believe it is not important...they "wrote" it,so why bother taking inspiration or follow its teaching? Am not castigating any party here but I believe that christianity is getting it all wrong,It marvels me whenever I hear people arguing on which church is the best...like seriously? If the church has remained as it was before there wouldn't be any anglican church,penticostal churches,methodist church,russian orthodox,The orthodox church,e.t.c there would be only The Roman catholic Church.
Now I read somewhere that Catholics practice idolatory...yea it's true,but am gonna ask you a dumb question? WHAT IS IDOLARTORY AND DO YOU HAVE ANY PROOF THAT PRACTISING IDOLATORY IS A SIN? Now don't quote a verse from the bible...it's not relevant anymore,it has been misinterpreted numerous times,defiled and... I don't wanna sound like an atheist[am not one,just someone with common sense]
when you have people who are once part of your "evil" practice trying to rubbish your belief because they believe they are now "wiser" and more "enlightened" I think that calls for a serious questioning.
At least I've been opportuned to attend various churches[am a catholic...at least I believe I am] some for over a period of time...-months-years...and you know my conclusion? You can't be a protestant,catholic,e.t.c if you don't turn a blind eye to all there flaws,you have to be a fanatic....
In the end all of them[churches] are just living in ignorance..and I refuse to be ignorant. May God help us dear...

What are the flaws of the DOCTRINES OF THE CATHOLIC CHURCH?

And I hope you're not referring to books like Infancy Gospel of Thomas and all the other rubbish books written by Gnostics.

loksman:
the bible you read now has been tampered with,altered..e.t.c by the catholic church. Who told you that you're reading what was written by the original authors?

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

So Christ lied?
So Christ laboured in vain?
I repeat The Catholic church was not made for the bible, but the bible was made for the Catholic church.

loksman:
the bible you read now has been tampered with,altered..e.t.c by the catholic church. Who told you that you're reading what was written by the original authors?

Matthew 16:18
And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.

So Christ lied?
So Christ laboured in vain?

I repeat The Catholic church was not made for the bible, but the bible was made for the Catholic church.

My advice to you is the read your Bible and ask for the Holy Spirit before you start reading ask for Wisdom, knowledge, and Understanding and ask Him to interpret the Bible to you. The Bible is True after reading it even ur spirit will testify to it.