dearpreye:


I'm sorry I thought I was engaging a liberal minded fellow. I've deliberately avoided some of your impudent comments towards me.....

That will be all.

I thought I was dealing with a genuine believer not a murmurer
Once again, you have stated your case here on NL, made it to FP, garnered a few likes. What else are you doing about it, or is this all?

vooks:
[size=1pt][/size]
You are the one reason I believe evolution forgot Negroes behind. I was talking generally as I'm not acquainted with RCCG balance sheet nor their income statement. Head branch/office overheads are the only cost that should be spread out to all churches.Works for branches companies, multinationals...Is this too much for your Negro neuron? Or have you never studied management?

Mighty glad you are trolling me, but I'm not sure I can pass on this high IQ mantle to such a braindead m0ron

Your anti theistic puny brains has NEVER discovered nor developed nothing, period

Again, using only half of your brain has serious consequences.
Redeem church finances are not different from the bottom up finances of every megachurch or Pentecostal movement.
Your brain is too restricted to think that far.

Even the Catholic church is pretty much organised in similar fashion.
The only difference is that the Catholic church runs daycare centers, primary and secondary schools, clinics, hospitals, orphanages and assorted charities with the moneys they generate.

What do Pentecostal churches do with the billions they collect from the masses of sheep?

Is this an organised crime syndicate?

vooks:
[size=1pt][/size]
You are the one reason I believe evolution forgot Negroes behind. I was talking generally as I'm not acquainted with RCCG balance sheet nor their income statement. Head branch/office overheads are the only cost that should be spread out to all churches.Works for branched companies, multinationals...Is this too much for your Negro neuron? Or have you never studied management?

Mighty glad you are trolling me, but I'm not sure I can pass on this high IQ mantle to such a braindead m0ron

Your anti theistic puny brains has NEVER discovered nor developed nothing, period

And all these caustic barrage of insults escaped from the mouth of ' a genuine believer?'.........

dearpreye:


And all these caustic barrage of insults escaped from the mouth of ' a genuine believer?'.........

What are you doing about it barring ranting on NL?

plaetton:


Again, using only half of your brain has serious consequences.
Redeem church finances are not different from the bottom up finances of every megachurch or Pentecostal movement.
Your brain is too restricted to think that far.

Even the Catholic church is pretty much organised in similar fashion.
The only difference is that the Catholic church runs daycare centers, primary and secondary schools, clinics, hospitals, orphanages and assorted charities with the moneys they generate.

What do Pentecostal churches do with the billions they collect from the masses of sheep?

Is this an organised crime syndicate?

M0ron,
Let me speak of Anglicans and Presbyterians. Every year they start with a budget comprising of their expenses outlay for the year plus a levy from the head quarter. They meet this and they keep the rest which they use to open schools, clinics ..... Catholicism I been told run on a similar model but am no authority on Catholicism.

What do Pentecostals do with the trillions?
First, in absence of transparency, you can't reasonably claim they have billions. Everything from here is speculative. The OP has no idea how much the 70% amounted to for instance. Secondly, since you are guessing and knowing your antitheistic bullshiet, I choose not to wallow in your mire.

Get me hard stats and we can carry on from there

vooks:

M0ron,
Let me speak of Anglicans and Presbyterians. Every year they start with a budget comprising of their expenses outlay for the year plus a levy from the head quarter. They meet this and they keep the rest which they use to open schools, clinics ..... Catholicism I been told run on a similar model but am no authority on Catholicism.

What do Pentecostals do with the trillions?
First, in absence of transparency, you can't reasonably claim they have billions. Everything from here is speculative. The OP has no idea how much the 70% amounted to for instance. Secondly, since you are guessing and knowing your antitheistic bullshiet, I choose not to wallow in your mire.

Get me hard stats and we can carry on from there

You contradict yourself when you half-think.

Earlier on you asked him if their church made monthly or quarterly financial statements.
He replied that issues of finance were kept very secretive.
That's is the smoking gun.

No one knows the finances, how much rccg generates on a monthly basis, because they don't want anyone to know.

That is the issue here. The secrecy surounding church revenues from both internal and from businesses.

This is why we can only speculate, and suspect that a serious and entrenched crime syndicate is operating the pentecostal movement in Nigeria.

dearpreye:


And all these caustic barrage of insults escaped from the mouth of ' a genuine believer?'.........

Christians have been known to be hypocrites. What else do you expect of an ideology based on a lie

Plaetton, you and this your student again

hahn:


Christians have been known to be hypocrites. What else do you expect of an ideology based on a lie

Plaetton, you and this your student again

As you can observe, he is a special needs child with serious learning disabilities.

Yeah man, my work gets harder by the day.

plaetton:


As you can observe, he is a special needs child with serious learning disabilities.

Yeah man, my work gets harder by the day.

hahn:


Christians have been known to be hypocrites. What else do you expect of an ideology based on a lie

Plaetton, you and this your student again

I brought forward an issue to requires very simple and common sense to address but someone turned the logic on its head, subtly maligned me and then.....

My boss, I'm convinced Christ is real; I've got very personal convictions on that BUT the vast majority of us Christians are still far from the tenets of it.

dearpreye:
I'm so happy I'm gradually moving away from mindless religious to a position of common sense and critical thought.

It's my deepest believe that religion should serve as a means of elevating man from mediocrity to excellence; poverty to abundance; ignorance to knowledge, and from primitivity to civilisation. But for the inherent weaknesses of human nature, religion has been so effectively used to degrade the human sense, turn men into unthinking zombies, push men away from improved lifestyles into poverty, and exploit and rob unsuspecting people of their meagre resources.

What transpired in my RCCG parish earlier this morning was shocking, shameful and insulting to sane minds.

For the past 7 or so years, we the parish members have almost singlehandedly built our edifice from scratch. We struggled to get an expensive piece of land using bank loans after shifting from place to place, managed to put up the structure, and bought the sound system and other things to make the place conducive for members. Sadly, as the case is with the RCCG administration, more than 70% of what we generated within this period was still being sent to the province and from there it will land in the HQs in Lagos- Ibadan.

This morning our pastor announced we will be dedicating that edifice to the glory of God. The only issue is: our provincial pastors and others said we MUST make available the sum of money between N150, 000 to N200, 000 as honorarium before they will come around to dedicate the building. I almost went berserk.

When one of us asked why that should be the case, he was told that has been the tradition- that we must make money available whenever our top pastors come visiting the lower churches for whatever reasons. I'm still trying to wrap my head around it. It just doesn't make any iota of sense to me. It's absurd. This is nothing but religious exploitation. Why must the leaders ask us to pay for services we believe they're rendering to God? Somebody please help me.

As for me, I'm NOT giving a dime to that religious waste BUT I feel it's even terrible such traditions are allowed in the house of God. It's crazy.

Just when I was getting my head together, I was told that our G.O used to live in an apartment in the Redemption Camp before he moved into a more befitting one. Now, that apartment is being turned into a museum- members allegedly pay N500 to see inside. Another madness and exploitation. I just don't get mind around these things.

If religion keeps creating pains for me, of what benefit is it to me? Why don't more people speak out against these exploitation? It's insane.

Bro I feel your pain. I can relate. Too many examples of these things.
But one thing is certain, God is not in support of these actions and I would say that to the face of any preacher if necessary. Don't let them make you backslide nd keep standing for the truth even if it goes against a church norm.

gcode123:


Bro I feel your pain. I can relate. Too many examples of these things.
But one thing is certain, God is not in support of these actions and I would say that to the face of any preacher if necessary. Don't let them make you backslide nd keep standing for the truth even if it goes against a church norm.

Thank you. Thanks for the admonition. We will keep at the truth. Christianity isn't a burden. It's NOT a business either.

plaetton:


You contradict yourself when you half-think.

Earlier on you asked him if their church made monthly or quarterly financial statements.
He replied that issues of finance were kept very secretive.
That's is the smoking gun.

No one knows the finances, how much rccg generates on a monthly basis, because they don't want anyone to know.

That is the issue here. The secrecy surounding church revenues from both internal and from businesses.

This is why we can only speculate, and suspect that a serious and entrenched crime syndicate is operating the pentecostal movement in Nigeria.

Idiot,
Suspecting/speculating is your right but you really have nothing to work on. What are RCCG's expenditures vs expenses? How much do they burn on remuneration,charity,capex? See what I mean?

I don't cheer opaqueness in case your puny brains missed this in my earlier comment because I know that's sign of mismanagement but you really have nothing to work on. Your 'trillions' are bullshiet in other words

dearpreye:


I brought forward an issue to requires very simple and common sense to address but someone turned the logic on its head, subtly maligned me and then.....

Lol. You never see anything

My boss, I'm convinced Christ is real; I've got very personal convictions on that BUT the vast majority of us Christians are still far from the tenets of it.

I have personal convictions that the toothfairy is real too. But it's still nothing more than a personal belief. That doesn't make it true or a fact. Just as no one needs to convinced that the sun is real, apparently, it makes little of no sense for the issue of an almighty god should be debatable to the extent of having over 4,000 different explanations.

It's all good though. I love that other thread of yours. Keep up the good work.

One.

gcode123:


Bro I feel your pain. I can relate. Too many examples of these things.
But one thing is certain, God is not in support of these actions and I would say that to the face of any preacher if necessary. Don't let them make you backslide nd keep standing for the truth even if it goes against a church norm.

And why is god doing nothing about it?

dearpreye:


Very correct. The system is badly organised and it's showing in the manner we attend church programmes. The joblessness and poverty is real. Men are in dire need of a message of hope and wherever such messages are found, the people go with their resources and enrich the givers of that message.

It's being long since Nigerian version of Christianity has irked me. It numbs your common sense, kills your creativity and innovative sense, makes you shriek from your responsibility, and leaves you poorer than ever before.

It's never God's duty to make men wealthy; that's their duty. God gives ideas and other resources.

The Nigerian word of faith and Pentecostal movement encourages fraud, greed, selfishness, madness and confusion, I can not stress that enough. Just look at what is happening in the churches. It is very shameful. A simple visit to the Nigerian church today will let you know that men worship nothing else but themselves. No system can exist on it's own without checks and balances. If Nigeria were an organized and functioning society people will not be this religious. Our religiosity remains superficial and can never help us because it is driven by poverty and the need to gather material gain/wealth. That is why despite the fact that Nigerians are very religious you can not trust them with your 10,000 naira. You will comfortably trust a non religious/atheist European with your 1000 euros than trust a tongue speaking and spirit filled Nigerian. The Nigerian pastors are no different from the politicians. Both are cut from the same cloth, while the politicians lie and steal, the pastors lie and sell false hope. I am done with Nigerian churches.

vooks:

Idiot,
Suspecting/speculating is your right but you really have nothing to work on. What are RCCG's expenditures vs expenses? How much do they burn on remuneration,charity,capex? See what I mean?

I don't cheer opaqueness in case your puny brains missed this in my earlier comment because I know that's sign of mismanagement but you really have nothing to work on. Your 'trillions' are bullshiet in other words

You really have learning disabilities.

If we all had rccg's balance sheet in our hands, we would actually know what figures we are dealing with here.

The issue here, in case your knee-jerk cognitive dissonance would allow you, is trying to figure out what they really do with their moneys in the backdrop of internal revenue from offerings, tithes and other frauds, as well as from external revenues from the known numerous FOR-PROFIT businesses that they run.

Should not their finances be open to all the rank and file members of the church?
If not, then are select few running an organised crime syndicate in the name of religion ?

You are soooo insecure, that you don't even recognize when our views converge or diverge.
You just have a compulsion to argu stupidly.

plaetton:


You really have learning disabilities.

If we all had rccg's balance sheet in our hands, we would actually know what figures we are dealing with here.

The issue here, in case your knee-jerk cognitive dissonance would allow you, is trying to figure out what they really do with their moneys in the backdrop of internal revenue from offerings, tithes and other frauds, as well as from external revenues from the known numerous FOR-PROFIT businesses that they run.

Should not their finances be open to all the rank and file members of the church?
If not, then are select few running an organised crime syndicate in the name of religion ?

You are soooo insecure, that you don't even recognize when our views converge or diverge.
You just have a compulsion to argu stupidly.

Not so fast m0ron,
You don't have figures but you have enough gonads to conjecture trillions are being wasted and then you have a fit when I call out your speculative bullshiet.

You don't know nothing. This don't make your bullshiet right, can't be disproved any more than you can prove they don't waste the trillions.

hahn:


And why is god doing nothing about it?

How about praying about it cos I'm not certain why also. It does not affect my relationship with him anyway. Id leave a church that I'm against their methods.
You cant exactly blame God for doing nothing if the people he has given his scriptures, and common sense see the truth and shut their eyes. Freewill is what he doesn't take from us.

hahn:


Lol. You never see anything



I have personal convictions that the toothfairy is real too. But it's still nothing more than a personal belief. That doesn't make it true or a fact. Just as no one needs to convinced that the sun is real, apparently, it makes little of no sense for the issue of an almighty god should be debatable to the extent of having over 4,000 different explanations.

It's all good though. I love that other thread of yours. Keep up the good work.

One.

When a person shows common sense and sincerity , as this op is showing, then it no longer matters what he or she personally believes.
I am gladdened the op's religious convictions do not becloud his judgement on what is right and wrong, what is fair and unjust.

If he was my neighbor, I have absolutely no issues with his beliefs, because he is showing that he is humane and fairminded.

So, to remind our religious friends once again;
We mock the silly things that religious beliefs make you do, not that you have and are entitled to a belief .

dearpreye:


To be exploited is a choice. I've tried challenging most of these man made, confusing, doctrines and it's like I'm fighting an established system.

,

When you fight corruption, corruption fights back.

Objectives:
,

When you fight corruption, corruption fights back.

It's really frustrating, especially when many persons don't seem to support you because they don't want to appear disobedient or challenging authority BUT someone's got to tell them the truth.

dearpreye:


It's really frustrating, especially when many persons don't seem to support you because they don't want to appear disobedient or challenging authority BUT someone's got to tell them the truth.

You wan spoil market for for our pastopreneurs? Go and open your own church if you think the hustle is easy

plaetton:


When a person shows common sense and sincerity , as this op is showing, then it no longer matters what he or she personally believes.
I am gladdened the op's religious convictions do not becloud his judgement on what is right and wrong, what is fair and unjust.

If he was my neighbor, I have absolutely no issues with his beliefs, because he is showing that he is humane and fairminded.

So, to remind our religious friends once again;
We mock the silly things that religious beliefs make you do, not that you have and are entitled to a belief .

True. Dearpreye is one of my favorite nairalanders and he is always mature in his comments. Except when he is supporting "the clueless one". Lol. You both have that in common

And he is certainly on his way to agnoticism

sonOfLucifer:

Funny. I was head of one of the departments in one of the parishes under KIng's Palace. I'm not gonna be specific for obvious reasons.

I was privileged to work with the finance department, so I'm a bit familiar with the financial rules of the RCCG and how most money is remitted to HQ. It would surprise most to know that the HQ also gets money from HOUSE fellowship centers..that small offering for evening.. chai..


If salvation is free, why is maintaining it so expensive? Who's profiting from salvation? Why must thanks to God be expressed in naira? Think Brother.

cc: modath, kingebukasblog, uyiiredia

It goes back to helping people in the church community and the society.

sonOfLucifer:

Funny. I was head of one of the departments in one of the parishes under KIng's Palace. I'm not gonna be specific for obvious reasons.

I was privileged to work with the finance department, so I'm a bit familiar with the financial rules of the RCCG and how most money is remitted to HQ. It would surprise most to know that the HQ also gets money from HOUSE fellowship centers..that small offering for evening.. chai..


If salvation is free, why is maintaining it so expensive? Who's profiting from salvation? Why must thanks to God be expressed in naira? Think Brother.

cc: modath, kingebukasblog, uyiiredia

So you were a worker in redeemed? Why did you then decide to be lucifer's son?

Annunaki:


So you were a worker in redeemed? Why did you then decide to be lucifer's son?

Blame it on the money. Me sef dey find am.

dearpreye:


It's really frustrating, especially when many persons don't seem to support you because they don't want to appear disobedient or challenging authority

mind control and misguided loyalty is the reason they cannot lend their voices to constructive criticism

BUT someone's got to tell them the truth

Definitely, but, sooner than later, something happens, they get pushed beyond their tolerance levels,

And bam!!

The scales fall off their eyes, and they suddenly want to stone to death, the gods of men that have made so much merchandise, off them.

Annunaki:


So you were a worker in redeemed? Why did you then decide to be lucifer's son?

UyiIredia:


Blame it on the money. Me sef dey find am.

So has lucifer given him money now?

sonOfLucifer:

Jesus still loves you

vooks:

M0ron,
Let me speak of Anglicans and Presbyterians. Every year they start with a budget comprising of their expenses outlay for the year plus a levy from the head quarter. They meet this and they keep the rest which they use to open schools, clinics ..... Catholicism I been told run on a similar model but am no authority on Catholicism.

What do Pentecostals do with the trillions?
First, in absence of transparency, you can't reasonably claim they have billions. Everything from here is speculative. The OP has no idea how much the 70% amounted to for instance. Secondly, since you are guessing and knowing your antitheistic bullshiet, I choose not to wallow in your mire.

Get me hard stats and we can carry on from there

Chai! this guy ^^^^ is a m0ron