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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Education / Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria (12164 Views)
Nairaland Interschool Debate Fourth Edition Participation Thread / Nairaland Interschool debate third edition elimination stage: Winner 6: LASU / Nairaland Interschool debate Elimination stage Winner 1: Unijos (2) (3) (4)
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Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Fynestboi: 7:24pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Nice one.... You can go through your opponent arguments... |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by penplayer: 7:27pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Fynestboi: I give up. He's not picking up. probably busy. Dunno what's wrong. |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Fynestboi: 7:29pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Fynestboi: 7:30pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
7:30 – 8:30pm – Rebuttals - A debater takes on his opponent’s view, puncturing his or her points - This the debater does by quoting the said comment and then countering it with his or her own views. Do also bear in mind that, the rebuttal stage carries 5 marks. So do well to attend to all questions raised by your opponent. Thank you. Penplayer, Abuklaw, Catalyst4real |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Fynestboi: 7:32pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
You have just one hour to puncture your opponent arguments...... Let the show begin... |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Fynestboi: 7:32pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
You have just one hour to puncture your opponent arguments...... Let the show begin... #grabs popcorn and smoov# |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Catalyst4real: 7:42pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Penplayer, you said and I quote "The partnership of the public and private sector and the accountability that is demanded from investors and lenders inevitably promotes transparency and good governance." How does private-public partnership promote transparency? Because even to a layman, it is more transparent and stress-free to do something yourself than to pay someone to do the job for you. |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Fynestboi: 7:50pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
No puncturing? well I wait... |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by penplayer: 7:51pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Catalyst4real: I'm sorry I couldnt quote each because of my browser. You mentioned that the government pays taxes to the private sectors. The government according to what I know doesn't pay taxes. Or why would it need to. Rather the private firm pays taxes to the government on their revenue. . You were stereotypical when you mentioned that companies seek profit and profit alone without caring for the project quality. How will a firm make profit if it renders facilities of low qualities? There are terms of contract in a project and that requires that the private firms fulfils their end of the deal. PPP has governments hand in it. So your stance that private services are expensive is wrong. I stand to be corrected. A partnership ensures that citizens enjoy infrastructural benefits. Do not confuse ppp projects with privately owned establishments. There are projects that is privately owned. Some are publicly owned. PPP projects are major projects like roads or bridges and are simply accrued to the government tho financed by private firms. 1 Like |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Fynestboi: 7:55pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Make sure you reply all questions or counter arguments from your opponent.. |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Abuklaw(m): 7:55pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
penplayer:Can you cite any example of PPP that has actually remedied the problem in this paragraph? Furthermore, Nigeria has over time been chastised with mind-boggling corruption issues where government funds budgeted for a cause get diverted into private coffers. PPP reduces such cases since profit can only be gotten when the investment performs according contractual obligations. Planned infrastructures can become a reality when they understand that the project has to work before gains are made. "The partnership of the public and private sector and the accountability that is demanded from investors and lenders inevitably promotes transparency and good governance." It also brings about swift progress and efficient dedication to projects. Logically, no one will intentionally bite his own heel especially when a lot is at stake. Transparent execution will ensure more projects are achieved for the benefit of citizens.Don't you think companies running for profit will exploit Nigerians under the aegis of high levy? and that itself is the worst form of corruption since the taxpayers pay tax to the government and the same time pay high levy to use low standard infastructure. Also, PPP saves taxpayers unnecessary burdens in the construction of infrastructures. Since government funds come majorly from taxpayers, a partnership with the private entities ensures that taxpayers are saved from the strain of having to pay higher taxes to finance infrastructural development in Nigeria. The infrastructural needs of this country is way beyond what the government can finance, and this is why it sometimes have to resort to borrowing to balance up where it is lacking. Such a partnership will ensure that the nation's inclination to borrowing and debt accumulation is comfortably reduced since in the long run, debts are serviced by taxpayer's money.government cannot be relieved of her responsibility to provide social infastructure for her citizens. moreover, I don't think you actually know how PPP works. Government participation in concession is most time use as a collateral by private companies to secure loan from banks. Banks believe the government will cover up for any lapses on the part of private companies. don't you think that is still indirect debt? Another argument for PPP is that it gives opportunities to expand local private companies by partnering with international firms to bring about infrastructural development. Nigeria alone can not solve her problems and requires support in form of resources and expertise from more experienced countries to solve the problems. Through joint partnership, local and international firms can work together to achieve and make gains. It also allows local companies to prove their capabilities in handling projects which in long run improves their image and help get more contracts. With such, it will also give a boost to industries associated with infrastructural developmentsuch as construction, equipment, support services.sadly, the local companies enthrusted with the responsibility of providing social infrastructure failed woefully. Bi-Courtney owned by Mr. Wale Babalakin comes to mind. The Foreign companies that partners Federal Government of Nigeria in housing provision also defeat objectives. Importantly, PPP should be adopted because the government is removed from the risk of failure and because its adoption in other countries has brought significant development. "Let us take a comparative example of India’s Vadodara- Halol and Ahmedabad-Mahesana road project undertaken to widen and strengthen the existing state highways to toll roads in Gujarat. It was the first PPP based project in India and according to their government, it saved time and money.Don't forget that Nigeria is our area of discussion. Mention one successful PPP project in Nigeria (if any) and I would mention ten that failed. 1 Like |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by penplayer: 7:56pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Catalyst4real: In this case, the reason for partnership has majorly been for finance. The PPP projects are financed by the government. If you read my essay carefully, i mentioned that the PPP will make sure that the money the lenders and private firms have invested will be monitored to make sure they earn returns. Please read thru to get the notion of PPP. 1 Like |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Fynestboi: 7:58pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
[size=3pt]Lalasticlala[/size] |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Catalyst4real: 8:03pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
penplayer:Transparency- When there is nothing to hide. You didn't really answer the question sire, if you have to monitor an operation, it is for the fear of it getting ugly. There is no such fear in public-public partnership. Thanks for the reply |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Nobody: 8:06pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
To those in support of PPP isnt it true that public-private partnerships have fundamentally been about giving private investors and financiers high returns with low risks, at the long-term expense of taxpayers and the public. The financial backers of PPPs are able to borrow capital at lower rates of interest, thanks in large part to unregulated and often fraudulent activities in financial markets. This narrows the interest rate spread between private and public sector borrowing rates, allowing PPPs to appear more financially attractive than otherwise. They still are a bad deal for taxpayers, but low private sector costs of borrowing meant that faulty accounting didn’t have to cover up as much. These low borrowing rates for the private sector were not based on economic fundamentals or realistic calculations of risk in the private sector. Private financial institutions engaged in systemic cover-ups, miscalculations, and passing on of undisclosed risks to unsuspecting investors. The unregulated financial markets allowed financial speculation to flourish, siphoning funds away from productive investments in the real economy. As a result, the paper economy grew, but real economy stagnated. In your argument for PPP and the reality of Nigerias anti corruption fight don't you think PPPs will no longer thrive in our economy due to reasons given above? |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Catalyst4real: 8:07pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
penplayer:Private-public partnership is divided into two, the full private-public partnership and the partial. In the full, the government bears the whole financial burden and any aspect of the contract that involves finance, tax inclusive While in the partial, the government funds the contract and the private institution pays for its tax. The full is the most common. 2 Likes |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by penplayer: 8:08pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Abuklaw: "The Nigerian Infrastructure Advisory Facility (NIAF), a DfID-funded programme implemented by Adam Smith International, has been working closely with the Federal Government of Nigeria to accelerate infrastructure development by using public-private partnerships. Leveraging private finance means the government can raise additional finance, improve on the commercial viability of project proposals and enhance the performance of the existing capital budget. Part of NIAF's engagement strategy involves installing public-private partnerships in processes and policies at both federal and state levels. One of the most significant barriers for investors is the perception of poor project governance. A crucial part of our approach has therefore been to work on, and complete, a number of flagship transactions to ensure domestic support for public-private partnerships as a financing mechanism, which also improves investor confidence in project governance. The second Niger Bridge is one example of this type of investment. The proposed 1.6km bridge and associated approach roads and bypasses for the cities of Asaba and Onitsha will provide vastly improved connections between northern and southern Nigeria, supporting social and economic development. It will replace the existing bridge, which has limited longevity, high traffic levels and inadequate load-bearing capacity, and is notorious for its congestion and traffic delays in both cities." www.theguardian.com/global-development-professionals-network/adam-smith-international-partner-zone/financing-infrastructure-partnership-nigeria The government is not in any way relieved of its responsibility. It's just being supported to ensure resources can be diverted to other cause. As for the bank issue. The terms of contract is not about borrowing. The partnering company should be finacially ready to finance the project and the government is not in any way concerned with where the funds are sourced from. For the high levies. Such projects come under subsidy by the government. The government ensures that low charges are made towards utilizing such projects. Private firms can also render the services for free to the citizens in exchange for special privileges in the operating state. 1 Like |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Fynestboi: 8:11pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
There is a question from one of the judges up there. Penplayer |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by penplayer: 8:12pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Catalyst4real: Well, if the government bears the full financial burden, then the use of partnership is meaningless. And your stance that citizens will be impoverished holds no ground. In most PPP, private sector bears most of the financial burden. If you can't agree to that stance then the basis of your argument is weak. Don't you think? |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Abuklaw(m): 8:16pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Fynestboi:He is actually corroborating our stand that PPP would not thrive in a country like Nigeria. |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Nobody: 8:18pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Fynestboi please permit me to direct this question to Abuklaw as an analytical assessment. The financial crisis of today has brought about renewed interest in PPP in both developed and developing countries. Facing constraints on public resources and fiscal space, while recognizing the importance of investment in infrastructure to help their economies grow, governments are increasingly turning to the private sector as an alternative additional source of funding to meet the funding gap. While recent attention has been focused on fiscal risk, governments look to the private sector for other reasons: 1) Exploring PPPs as a way of introducing private sector technology and innovation in providing better public services through improved operational efficiency 2)Incentivizing the private sector to deliver projects on time and within budget Imposing budgetary certainty by setting present and the future costs of infrastructre projects over time 3)Utilizing PPPs as a way of developing local private sector capabilities through joint ventures with large international firms, as well as sub-contracting opportunities for local firms in areas such as civil works, electrical works, facilities management, security services, cleaning services, maintenance services 4)Using PPPs as a way of gradually exposing state owned enterprises and government to increasing levels of private sector participation (especially foreign) and structuring PPPs in a way so as to ensure transfer of skills leading to national champions that can run their own operations professionally and eventually export their competencies by bidding for projects/ joint ventures 5)Creating diversification in the economy by making the country more competitive in terms of its facilitating infrastructure base as well as giving a boost to its business and industry associated with infrastructure development (such as construction, equipment, support services) 6)Supplementing limited public sector capacities to meet the growing demand for infrastructure development 7)Extracting long-term value-for-money through appropriate risk transfer to the private sector over the life of the project – from design/ construction to operations/ maintenance. Please Abuklaw since you say PPP is dead on arrival can these not be married into Present day Nigeria even as corruption is being given a death grip? |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Nobody: 8:20pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Abuklaw Nigerian government most time imitate successful initiatives from the international scene without carefully studying the intricacies involve in such initiative. The ignorance of rules and regulations, ethics and practices involve in PPP is an enough reason for Nigerians to campaign against its adoption because the taxpayers are always at the receiving end of government’s inadequacies. Are you saying that the masses should condone the ignorance of the government and reject an initiative which by your own admission has been successful internationally? How about the taxpayers demanding that our government should educate themselves by "carefully studying the intricacies involved in such initiative" (to use your own words) Should we continue to deprive ourselves of good things because the government that we voted in is not ready to learn the rules and regulations, ethics and practices applicable in PPP? What is your response to this? |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Catalyst4real: 8:20pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
penplayer:Not so fast Bro. Yes you're right, the purpose of the partnership is meaningless and unpragmatic in a struggling society like Nigeria Even after the government confers the financial burden, it doesn't get to the right source, the loss in revenue would have been overlooked if it is able to achieve its purpose, But it doesn't. PPP is not the way Forward |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Obinoscopy(m): 8:21pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
I say a big weldone to the contestants. You guys did lots of research on this topic. I'm impressed. Ermmm, Penplayer, I have a question for you. We've seen PPPs where the private firm is in the monopoly. Do you think such partnership is healthy for the citizens? Catalyst4real, you said PPPs don't generate revenue. How about the likes of Remita? Please clarify. Weldone once again guys. |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Fynestboi: 8:22pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Debaters ensure you tidy up all questions direct to you from the judges before 9:00pm so we can give room for questions from the audience... Penplayer Abuklaw Catalyst4real |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by penplayer: 8:22pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
naijadeyhia: Well, there is always an MOU between the government and the Private firm. Contained in this Memorandum of understanding are the term and duration of contract, Cost of project amidst others. Note that the private firms are held accountable by the government and their integrity and ability is tested before granting contracts. If the private firm will embezzle their own money, there will be no need to initiate a project that won't meet deadline. It is a moral judgement call. The Private sector bears all the risk in PPP which ensures that the government is free from incurring debt and contract failure. Most of the risks are eliminated when the private firms keep to their end of the deal. They can only gain when the project works. As per financial institutions covering up their fraudulent activities and all that.It can only be reduced not eliminated. |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Nobody: 8:25pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
penplayer: Very good attempt |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Abuklaw(m): 8:26pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
penplayer:which other cause if the infastructure is being taken care of? recurrent expenditure right? As for the bank issue. The terms of contract is not about borrowing. The partnering company should be finacially ready to finance the project and the government is not in any way concerned with where the funds are sourced from.The political implication of failed PPP goes beyond monetary term. The image of a country would have been already punctured and denizens won't even have an iota of believe in subsequent agreement. For the high levies. Such projects come under subsidy by the government. The government ensures that low charges are made towards utilizing such projects. Private firms can also render the services for free to the citizens in exchange for special privileges in the operating state.who is subsidising lekki toll free? unless you want avoid this question, you would be aware of media outrage and criticism targeted at lagos sate government due to high fee. |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Nobody: 8:27pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Penplayer One of the ways the private company recoups its investment in a PPP is through the collection of tolls. You also mentioned this in one of the examples you gave in your essay. Now the question is this; don't you think this brings about a form of institutionalized segregation, when the poor masses who can't afford the tolls are forced to find and use the bad alternative routes, while they helplessly watch the rich ones enjoy the benefits of the PPP. How does this help the country considering the fact that both the poor and the rich pay taxes? |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by penplayer: 8:29pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Obinoscopy: Such monopolistic partnerships are not healthy if it causes unreasonable strain on them. It all lies with government. If the partnership causes a strain on citizens (which it is meant to aid) then the government has the right to review terms of contract and bring up a worthy competitor to balance it up. The government should seek the interest of its citizens and thus will not allow any partnership to hamper its people unless of course the government is crazy. Pardon my language. |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by Catalyst4real: 8:30pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
Obinoscopy:On a more speculative note, yes private institution generate funds, which is neither beneficial to the economy, the masses or the government. But for the sole growth of the private institution. So as far as generating revenue that could be useful in increasing a nation's wealth is concerned, ppp do not generate revenue. |
Re: Nairaland Interschool Debate:Elimination stage -Winner 2: Abu Zaria by penplayer: 8:33pm On Jan 24, 2016 |
adeaks: Again I must mention that such tolls are subsidized to make sure all and sundry benefit from the project. Such projects are not always local projects, it's mostly nationwide and the term of tolls are set by the government and not the private firms. |
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