Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / NewStats: 3,152,457 members, 7,816,074 topics. Date: Friday, 03 May 2024 at 02:25 AM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / What Is Nature Exactly? (29607 Views)
Where Exactly Is Garden Of Eden??? / How Exactly Is Christianity Holding Nigerians Back. / What Exactly Has Atheism Done For Humanity? (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) ... (12) (13) (14) (15) (16) (17) (Reply) (Go Down)
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by UyiIredia(m): 8:16pm On Mar 31, 2016 |
Kay17: Unguided nature on its own cannot make a pin talkless of any living thing but I would agree nature is the agent within and through which God designed living things. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by texanomaly(f): 8:33pm On Mar 31, 2016 |
Kay17: @the bolded I thought you were an Atheist. Have I been wrong for the past 3 years? |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Kay17: 8:43pm On Mar 31, 2016 |
texanomaly: Loool! Humans aren't open books you know. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Kay17: 8:45pm On Mar 31, 2016 |
UyiIredia: So when PastorAIO said goats were a product of Nature, you seem to protest absolutely against it rather than stating your proviso -- guided Nature. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Weah96: 8:52pm On Mar 31, 2016 |
Kay17: There is no guide anywhere. Who guides the hurricane and tsunami? 1 Like |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by PastorAIO: 1:28am On Apr 01, 2016 |
Weah96: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Juracán |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by texanomaly(f): 1:44am On Apr 01, 2016 |
Kay17: Hmmm...nice to see you again. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Weah96: 3:29am On Apr 01, 2016 |
PastorAIO: A-ha. I like to see claims that are falsifiable. When someone says that a talking being designs forces of nature, he enters into the scientific realm. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Kay17: 6:29am On Apr 01, 2016 |
texanomaly: same here |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by PastorAIO: 10:04am On Apr 01, 2016 |
Kay17: He has to protest absolutely. It has nothing to do with the arguments on the ground or whether his position is similar to mine or not. There is something else completely going on. Luckily I'm hip to it. 2 Likes |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by PastorAIO: 10:31am On Apr 01, 2016 |
I found this from another thread: UyiIredia: There is a common problem among mystically inclined people. They might say something like 'God is ineffable'. Fair enough, but the problem is that such statements are immediately followed by a list of God's attributes. The same problem here: no words can describe that Nothing This statement is preceded and followed and barracked on all sides by words purporting to describe that Nothing. Since we're making quotations here, I'm totally with Wittgenstein when he says: "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." Many mystics have said it as follows: Know and Shut Up. https://www.nairaland.com/818922/plaettons-pantheism/1#39920421 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by plaetton: 2:53pm On Apr 01, 2016 |
PastorAIO: . Yeah , are there some things or people that god CREATED but did not DESIGN ? Perfect question that really needs an answer. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by plaetton: 2:56pm On Apr 01, 2016 |
UyiIredia: The mountain range has information, has functional complexity. Does it show hallmarks of design ? |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by KingEbukasBlog(m): 2:57pm On Apr 01, 2016 |
plaetton: UyiIredia gave the perfect answer |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by plaetton: 2:59pm On Apr 01, 2016 |
3 Likes |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by UyiIredia(m): 3:17pm On Apr 01, 2016 |
plaetton:It has neither actually. This just goes to show how foolish you are. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by UyiIredia(m): 3:19pm On Apr 01, 2016 |
texanomaly:Hi Tex, it's been a while what's up ? |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by PastorAIO: 3:31pm On Apr 01, 2016 |
UyiIredia: It has neither!!! And the guy who said so is foolish?!!! Eeyah, see african man! Suffer don chop all hin brain finish. 2 Likes |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by texanomaly(f): 4:53pm On Apr 01, 2016 |
UyiIredia:Not much. I don't want to derail this thread, so can you email me? @ Op I want to comment, but I am at work. I'll get there. I do find the subject interesting, but I'm not sure We are there, scientifically, to fully answer this question yet. Someone said, "Be patient." I'm tempted to leave it at that, but when I have more time I'd like to address some specifics. Thanks for bringing something interesting. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by UyiIredia(m): 6:32pm On Apr 01, 2016 |
texanomaly: Done that. 1 Like |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by PastorAIO: 12:03pm On Apr 02, 2016 |
Imagine two scenarios. 1) A handful of matchsticks spread across a table criss crossing in a complex web of patterns. 2) A handful of matchsticks spread across a table in a simple triangular lattice form. Which one suggests Design? Is simplicity of form not more evident of Design than complexity? The straight Line. The Square. The Triangle. The Circle. Symmetry. These are the things more likely to suggest Design than complex forms. Excavating a plot of land you are more likely to think that a civilisation once existed there if you see straight throughways suggesting roads and hiways, straight lined monuments suggesting walls or buildings etc. Again Symmetry and simplicity is what makes us more likely to thing something has been designed. 3 Likes 2 Shares |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Kay17: 1:37pm On Apr 02, 2016 |
It could go both ways. Either with simplicity or complexity, that's why it's necessary for the Intelligent Design crowd to produce a non design for comparism. 1 Like |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by DeepSight(m): 4:57pm On Apr 02, 2016 |
Kay17: If we hold that all existence and reality (the universe) as we know it was caused by an Intelligent Designer, then it will surely be impossible to show anything that would not have hallmarks of design about it. Anything at all. It will therefore be a strange question to demand of an advocate of intelligent design, that he produces a thing that is not designed. This would be a contradiction similar to asking a person who believes that shapes are made by men, to produce a square circle. It's both an impossible and unreasonable request which Iredia should not have taken up at all, rather than begin to refer to water. By the way, I no longer know whether its apt to refer to God as an "Intelligent Designer." Intelligence is something of the material sphere, and whatever attributes the Divine may have may probably not be described as intelligence in the way that we use the word. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by PastorAIO: 5:06pm On Apr 02, 2016 |
na UyiIredia first talk say created things are sometimes more and sometimes less designed. Me being an example of an undesigned creation. 1 Like |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by PastorAIO: 5:07pm On Apr 02, 2016 |
Kay17: What is the difference between complexity and Chaos? |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by PastorAIO: 5:11pm On Apr 02, 2016 |
To what extent is complexity merely a product of perspective? ie. seen in a certain way an event can seem complex, intractable even. But then with a little shift of perspective we can see that the event is actually quite simple. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by cloudgoddess(f): 4:41am On Apr 03, 2016 |
UyiIredia:I looked them up; they don't seem much different from the folks at the Creation Museum. Their goal is to pick some select scientific truths, and then twist them to fit the ID framework, all while providing nothing new or useful, and misleading people who are scientifically illiterate & highly invested in ID/creationism for religious reasons. Where is their research now? What discoveries did they make that are changing the world & advancing our understanding of biology? Where are the NON-religiously motivated papers backing their "findings"? I couldn't find any. Peer review is a bullsh** detector. If a biologist publishes a paper, his ideas are under intense scrutiny by thousands of other researchers across the globe. This is even more true now in the age of the internet. The peer-review process invites corrections, criticisms, and further research. This is how we get closer to truth. Not by believing in supernatural ideas because we want them to be true, and then trying to prove them by manipulating already-established science. And you are incorrect, Darwin's theory was peer-reviewed. Not only was his work rigorously tested for over 150 years after the publishing of his book (& still is today), but before he even released Origin of Species, ANOTHER biologist Alfred Wallace had made precisely the same discoveries as he did (natural selection as the means of evolution). Darwin is the one who gets the credit because he had more funding and resources and thus was able to popularize his discoveries with more success. Through peer-review, the Theory of Evolution as we know it now has been greatly refined. Darwin's main premises were kept, but many improvements were made as we learned more. For example, Darwin had no idea what the mechanisms of inheritence were - DNA wasn't yet discovered, so like most scientists of his age, he thought organisms inherited traits by a "blending" of their parents' traits. When mendelian inheritence came along and DNA was discovered, it was clear that he was wrong in this aspect. But he was still right about natural selection & common descent. Science isn't like religion, it doesn't operate via authority bias or dogmatic belief. Any idea can be revised for the better. Science keeps what works, and trashes what doesn't. This is how progress happens. Religion clings to what it wants to be true, and ignores/denies all else (unless it can find a way to manipulate the "else" to fit what it wants to be true; aka how ID was born). Also, just for your information, Darwin did not come up with the first theory of evolution. A French biologist named Jean Lamarck proposed the first cohesive version of the theory in the late 1700's, and prior to that several biologists had already advocated the idea of common ancestry & speciation. The only difference is that Darwin was the first to discover the true mechanism behind it - natural selection. Lamarck thought species evolved via acquired traits (ie. a giraffe would stretch it's neck to reach higher plants, and that extended neck would pass on to progeny) and he was wrong in that respect. 2 Likes |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Kay17: 8:30am On Apr 03, 2016 |
DeepSight: Yes it is a contradiction. Yet the Intelligent Design claim is unviable without the aid of comparison. Just the same way ID proponents point to man made robots or communication devices to compare with Nature. Their arguments are rooted in comparison. I think Imaginative Designer is more apt 1 Like |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Kay17: 8:31am On Apr 03, 2016 |
PastorAIO: Free jazz is probably the best demonstration. Or a Pollack painting. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by PastorAIO: 11:14am On Apr 03, 2016 |
Kay17: Free jazz is not a difference. A Difference is generally considered to be the variance between two objects. In other words what common attribute do they lack. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by Kay17: 12:15pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
PastorAIO: I actually meant both as examples of the question and difficult it is to decide. Especially with the varying perspectives. |
Re: What Is Nature Exactly? by PastorAIO: 12:28pm On Apr 03, 2016 |
Kay17: Okay, I get you. For me the difference is regularity (or the absence thereof). Anything which has form, from the simplest forms to the most complex forms, have regularity. i.e. Things are repeated after an interval (of space or time). Chaos lacks regularity. Free Jazz is not free in the sense that there are no rules or regulations. The music might be harmonically free but there are other structures that the musicians adhere to. Some music might seem chaotic if you're not aware of the regulation or form that the artists are sticking to, but once you become aware then it ceases to be chaotic to your ears. Which brings up the matter of the role that perspective plays in whether we find something chaotic or formal (whether simple form or complex form). 1 Like |
(1) (2) (3) ... (12) (13) (14) (15) (16) (17) (Reply)
"Koboko Night" Church Poster (photo)! / Daddy Freeze On First Fruit: Giving Your January Salary To Pastor Is Foolishness / Apostle Suleman Prays For Aisha Buhari Over Cabal In Aso Rock
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 56 |