I've always maintained that God is an embodiment of moral good and is not subject to his own laws . If we study the bible closely , it appears that God "disobeys" His own laws . The argument has been God makes laws for us, but seems to disobey those laws Himself. If this is true, so it is argued, God demands more of us than He does of Himself. Let’s explore this argument to test its validity.

Basic Elements of Law


1. Authority.

Law, by its very nature, requires a few basic elements. First, there must be an established authority to make the law. In the case of federal law, the United States consists of branches of duly elected representatives of the people who pass and enforce laws. When it comes to natural law, there are no written ordinances, but the authority that established the principles that govern nature (i.e. God) put them in place by virtue of the fact that He created nature and so has the right to order it as He pleases (cf. Jer. 33:25). Divine Law that is given by revelation is higher than any human law. It is not set by man although many laws of man derive their authority from divine law—and thus from God Himself. Just as God made the elements of the natural world with the laws that govern them, God made man as a spiritual being and He alone holds the ultimate authority to regulate his behavior (Ps. 119:105).

2. Rules.

A second element common to all law is some type of rules or regulations. All laws mandate certain things that must operate a certain way. A system without rules is said to be lawless. Any system that is governed by law operates within set rules and guidelines. It could be a speed limit. The law mandates “70 miles per hour” as the maximum speed at which a vehicle can travel on a certain road. It could be behavior. It is a crime to steal. Law BooksThe nature of the rules depends upon the nature of the thing regulated. In some cases the authority that enforces the rule is understood to stand outside of the rule. The highway patrolman who exceeds 70 miles per hour is not guilty if he does this to catch a driver who is speeding. The policeman that confiscates stolen property is not a thief. Part of their authority exempts them from some measure of accountability to the very laws they must enforce.

3. Jurisdiction.

A third element of all law is jurisdiction. For law to have meaning there must be some realm over which a given law has dominion. The ancient laws of the Hittite empire may be curious relics of antiquity but they no longer hold any power because there is no longer a Hittite empire. The realm and the region over which these laws once held power no longer exists. In regional governments the issue of jurisdiction is paramount. The authority of one state cannot enforce its laws on the citizens of another because it does not have jurisdiction. By the same token, if I violate a practice that is considered criminal in another jurisdiction, but is permitted within the county, state, or country where I live I am not guilty. A good example of this is the burka worn by Muslim women. A woman in the United States is not a criminal if she refuses to wear a burka even though it is required by law in countries such as Saudi Arabia.

4. Subjects.

Finally, in a very similar way, all law must involve subjects—that is, those who are under obligation to that law. We as Nigerians are obligated to obey the laws of our nation because we are properly subjects of the government which holds authority over us, and thus subject to its laws.


God’s Relationship to His Own Laws

1. Laws of Nature.

As we all know God is the authority who established these laws. There are set rules that define these laws. Laws of gravity demand that a rock falls to the ground—it doesn’t float up into the sky. Is God within the jurisdiction of natural law? A key difference between the picture of the God of the Bible and the concepts of pagan false religions is what is called transcendence. Greek GodsThe God of the Bible exists outside of the natural realm that He created. In other words, while Zeus, or Anubis, or Odin were themselves subject to certain laws of nature, the God of the Bible stands outside of the jurisdiction of natural laws. He is the “unmoved Mover.” He is the First Cause of all things! That means He can make an ax-head float (2 Kings 6:5-6). He can make time stand still (Josh. 10:12-13). He can make the shadow of the sundial go backwards (2 Kings 20:10-11). He is not under the jurisdiction of natural law, but very atom within this present universe, together with every soul made in His image is. They are subjects of the natural laws that God established over His creation. Because God transcends the natural universe, He is not a subject of His own creation, and is therefore not subject to the laws that govern it.

2. Moral or Religious Law.

What about moral or religious laws? There is an interesting example that concerns the Sabbath commandment. The rules required that no ordinary work was to be done on the seventh day (Exod. 20:10). This was a law that was not given until the Law of Moses was revealed (Neh. 9:14). It was a law that was not restated under the Law of Christ (Col. 2:16). That means that those who worked on the seventh day before the Law of Moses, as well as those who now live under Christ, and even those who were not a part of the Mosaic covenant during the time of the Israelite commonwealth were outside of its jurisdiction and were not, therefore, subject to its regulation. What about God? This law was drawn from what was said about God’s creation (Exod. 20:11). The present universe was made in six days, but Scripture tells us that after this was done, God “rested on the seventh day from all the work which He had done” (Gen. 2:2). Even before this was given as a law to the Israelites, God is said to have “blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it” (Gen. 2:3). The Hebrew writer, in one sense speaks of God’s works being “finished from the foundation of the world” (Heb. 4:3-4), but Jesus, when criticized for healing on the Sabbath said, “My Father has been working until now, and I have being working” (John 5:16-17). Did God violate His own Sabbath law? No. He stood outside of its jurisdiction and like those before and after the Law of Moses, He was not subject to its regulation.


3. Genocide.

This may seem reasonable when we are talking about things like the Sabbath law, but what is most frequently criticized is God’s treatment of His creation. That is, He commands us not to murder, but then He has commanded the extermination of the Canaanites, and Amalekites. Or, He commands us not to harm one another but He promises to punish the wicked throughout all eternity. Is He breaking His own laws in these examples? What are the basic elements of law in these examples? God is, once again, the established authority and He has set the rules that govern appropriate behavior. Yet, has God defined all taking of life as wrong? No! It is true that man is not to avenge himself (Rom. 12:19), and God condemns murder (Exod. 20:13), but He grants to the civil authority the right to punish even to the point of death those guilty of certain laws (Rom. 13:4). Is the executioner a murderer? No. Like the policeman who speeds to catch someone speeding, the executioner in his authority to carry out punishment is (to a measure) exempt from accountability to the law he is enforcing (cf. Num. 35:27). God on some specific occasions commanded Israel (in essence) to act as His executioner (Deut. 7:1-5; 25:17-19; 1 Sam. 15:1-5). The Canaanites and Amalekites were among some of the most wicked people that history has every known (Deut. 9:4; Ps. 106:34-37). God bore with their wickedness for a time in order to give them time to repent (cf. Gen. 15:16). When the time came, He used Israel as the vehicle by which He ended their ability to do any more wickedness. Did He violate His own law? No. First, because He was never under the jurisdiction of this law, nor a subject to obey it, but also because the people whom He used to carry out His punishment were not violating any divine law themselves. They were carrying out lawful punishment—in this case in the form of warfare.

4. Eternal Punishment.

What about eternal punishment? The issue of jurisdiction is applicable to this question as well. God is not under the jurisdiction of the laws He has set for His creation. When Judgment Day comes the nature of the present jurisdiction will be changed. What rules will govern the age to come? The jurisdiction of the realm of the saved will not be the same as the jurisdiction of the realm of the condemned. For example, to some measure, in that age the present laws of nature will be changed. In the jurisdiction of the saved there will be no more death, nor sorrow, nor pain because for them “the former things have passed away” (Rev. 21:4). On the other hand, some of these things will exist for the lost—“the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” (Rev. 14:11). Is it cruel for God to punish the wicked eternally? Let’s consider this from another angle. If I create something—a piece of pottery, a bird house, a painting, or a machine—what rights do I have over that thing I have created? Am I cruel to the pottery if I reshape it into another vessel? (cf. Jer. 18:5-6). Have I sinned against the bird house if I decide to use it for something else? If the machine turns out to be dangerous, am I a monster if I make certain it is kept away from ever causing any harm to anyone ever again? No.

In our creation it is God that formed the molecules and synaptic responses that form our physical bodies (Ps. 139:13-16). We are His creation—He can do with us as He pleases. God asked Judah, “can I not do to you as this potter?” (Jer. 18:6). Above all other creatures in this universe, He has blessed us by placing within us a spirit that is said to be in His image (Gen. 1:26-27)—we are from this point onward eternal creatures (Eccl. 3:11). That is a blessing! But it is a blessing that demands responsibility. The nature and demands of God are such that all creatures that bear His likeness must conform to His law. For those who fail in this (which is to say all who are morally accountable in age and ability) He has made provision for this failure by the atonement of Christ. What is God to do with those of His creation whom He has made eternal who remain in rebellion to His authority and refuse His regulation? Since He is not a subject of His own law, and therefore not under the jurisdiction of His own authority we cannot even compare any action He takes to punish wrong with committing wrong—remember the executioner is not a murderer. Confiscation is not theft. Those who reject the gospel of Christ establish themselves as a type of eternally dangerous machine that must be forever put where it can never harm the subjects of God’s kingdom ever again—that is essentially what hell is. Is this cruel on God’s part? No, it is His right as Creator and the transcendent authority over His creation.

Reference : http://focusmagazine.org/does-god-violate-his-own-laws.php

Do you know what we call people who make laws for others but different laws for themselves?


HYPOCRITES

Logicbwoy:
Do you know what we call people who make laws for others but different laws for themselves?


HYPOCRITES

This post is not intellectually tasking but you are failing woefully . From the example given above . If a particular speed limit has been exceeded by a car thief , is the policeman a hypocrite for over speeding to apprehend the car thief .

Please stay way let the people I mentioned address the post

signature:

I am a god - Psalm 82:6

Yes you are a god, but there are diffrent spirits:

the God Spirit
the human spirit
the animal spirit
and even a spirit of other kinds of life, eg trees grass etc.

the Father, the Word, and the Holy Spirit is God, being of God's Spirit,
you are a god being of the human spirit.

A big difference in case anyone was confused


Multiple humans are called "God's", plural,
The Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit is called "God", single, they are one.



Jesus was both human and God, being of the human spirit and being of God's Spirit,
the Word was God.
Christians can have the Holy spirit living in them, but they are not off the Holy spirit-not of God.

KingEbukasBlog:


This post is not intellectually tasking but you are failing woefully . From the example given above . If a particular speed limit has been exceeded by a car thief , is the policeman a hypocrite for over speeding to apprehend the car thief .

Please stay way let the people I mentioned address the post

The law allows police officers to travel at a high rate of speed.

The police would be a hypocrite if he prioritized the civilian speed limit over his sworn duties to protect and serve.

KingEbukasBlog:


This post is not intellectually tasking but you are failing woefully . From the example given above . If a particular speed limit has been exceeded by a car thief , is the policeman a hypocrite for over speeding to apprehend the car thief .

Please stay way let the people I mentioned address the post

1) The policeman did not make the law allowing him to go over the speed limit in exigent circumstances. The legislators did. Exigent circumstances- even civilians would be let go of any charges if they have reason to go over the speed limit. For instance, being chased by terrorists.

2) The state will pay for damages and charge the policeman for reckless driving if he damages property or injures civilians. So, the law still applies to them. They can only go over the speed limit when it is necessary

Logicbwoy:



1) The policeman did not make the law allowing him to go over the speed limit in exigent circumstances. The legislators did. Exigent circumstances- even civilians would be let go of any charges if they have reason to go over the speed limit. For instance, being chased by terrorists.

2) The state will pay for damages and charge the policeman for reckless driving if he damages property or injures civilians. So, the law still applies to them. They can only go over the speed limit when it is necessary

You still agree with my intentions for creating the post . That there are indeed reasons why one should not be subject to the law . Or not obligated to obey the law . True or true ?

Weah96:


The law allows police officers to travel at a high rate of speed.

The police would be a hypocrite if he prioritized the civilian speed limit over his sworn duties to protect and serve.

Logicbwoy:
Do you know what we call people who make laws for others but different laws for themselves?


HYPOCRITES

I dont think when laws are given they provide circumstances where people are expected not to obey the law . Or do they ?

KingEbukasBlog:




I dont think when laws are given they provide circumstances where people are expected not to obey the law . Or do they ?

Speed limits do not apply to police officers in pursuit of criminals. Or ambulances that are transporting sick people to the hospital.

Those are also laws. There are many laws, speed limit is just one. Law enforcement is another.

KingEbukasBlog:


You still agree with my intentions for creating the post . That there are indeed reasons why one should not be subject to the law . Or not obligated to obey the law . True or true ?

What nonsense are you saying.

You can't create a law and give yourself immunity from that law. That is hypocrisy and open to abuse.

The policemen did not create the law regarding speed limits

Logicbwoy:


What nonsense are you saying.

You can't create a law and give yourself immunity from that law. That is hypocrisy and open to abuse.

The policemen did not create the law regarding speed limits

Are you being disingenuous or you just want to play daft because your intention is just refute my topic Where am I suggesting that the police created the law . I just told you that you agree with me - that there are reasons why you should not obey the law when you are in a particular circumstance . E.g If there is a disaster , there are certain laws that have to be broken because the priority has changed - safety is now paramount . What do I mean , laws are given to maintain order . Order is paramount . During disasters , safety is now paramount . Order sometimes need to not to be adhered to in order to be safe .

Please bro read the original post and stop arguing vacuously .

KingEbukasBlog:


Are you being disingenuous or you just want to play daft because your intention is just refute my topic Where am I suggesting that the police created the law . I just told you that you agree with me - that there are reasons why you should not obey the law when you are in a particular circumstance . E.g If there is a disaster , there are certain laws that have to be broken because the priority has changed - safety is now paramount . What do I mean , laws are given to maintain order . Order is paramount . During disasters , safety is now paramount . Order sometimes need to not to be adhered to in order to be safe .

Please bro read the original post and stop arguing vacuously .

Rubbish.

God is the judge, jury and executioner. A policy, we all know as human beings, that leads to abuse.

Was God facing any natural disaster or exigent circumstances when he chose to flood the whole world and commit genocide?

Logicbwoy:




Rubbish.

God is the judge, jury and executioner. A policy, we all know as human beings, that leads to abuse.

Was God facing any natural disaster or exigent circumstances when he chose to flood the whole world and commit genocide?

Nonsense .

Do policemen face any natural disaster or exigent circumstances when they fight against law offenders Or even have to kill them if it is necessary . You are not making any sense .

Read the op for crying out loud ! You are running around this thread like a headless chicken

..God be like...

@Logicbwoy

Here is an example which may not apply aptly to a particular circumstance

In a law court - we have the Judge and the criminal . The criminal is a murderer in fact . There are lawyers to fight over the case - for and against . The Judge's decision is in accordance to the law . Certain criminal cases require death of the offender . If the Judge passes his verdict - death for the offender . Has the Judge committed any crime ? Has the lawful executioner ordered by the Judge to eliminate the offender committed any crime ?

God has the right to eliminate his own creation . Did you help him during creation that you are accusing him of genocide . He can order anyone - as seen during the bible times with Israel but does not apply to this dispensation - to eliminate anyone .

Shollyps:
..God be like...

Use your head . The enemies of God are people who are not obedient to his laws . If a Judge can put a criminal/law offender in prison what stops God from punishing Him too .

What stopped this so called enemy from obeying God in the first place

Logicbwoy:




Rubbish.

God is the judge, jury and executioner. A policy, we all know as human beings, that leads to abuse.

Was God facing any natural disaster or exigent circumstances when he chose to flood the whole world and commit genocide?

God is almighty and all-knowing.

You, in your limitations, questioning his acts, does not just paint you as presumptuous, but also paints you as foolish.

And for the benefit of those truly interested, humanity was in danger of extinction from corruption and violence, that's why God flooded the earth.

He was tackling an outbreak of corruption, he used the flood to wipe out the initial danger, and used Israel as his sword to wipe out the danger of Canaan and amalek, etc.

It is foolish of you to attack based on records of scripture and reject rebuttals of your attack from the same scriptural records because you reject the bible. Idiocy.


And if you think I take most of your childish wailings seriously, news flash, I don't. You don't really have well-thought out arguments in your armour, and you make up for your ingenuity with your loudness and trolling.

The only time I do good to reply you is mostly for the benefit of other's doubts. Or when you infuriate me exceedingly, or during early days when I didnt know you well enough to realize you were mostly a loud mouthed troll with pathetic arguments and a myriad of memes to make up for your lack of thoughtful arguments.

KingEbukasBlog:


Use your head . The enemies of God are people who are not obedient to his laws . If a Judge can put a criminal/law offender in prison what stops God from punishing Him too .

What stopped this so called enemy from obeying God in the first place

lol. Don't waste time on peeps like that.

Joshthefirst:
lol. Don't waste time on peeps like that.

I just weak for their case . Na wa oo for pesin

Excellent thread King. Hope many will be able to apply good information in rational thought and not allow hate to blind their reasoning

Joshthefirst:
Excellent thread King. Hope many will be able to apply good information in rational thought and not allow hate to blind their reasoning

Thanks Josh

KingEbukasBlog:


Use your head . The enemies of God are people who are not obedient to his laws . If a Judge can put a criminal/law offender in prison what stops God from punishing Him too .

What stopped this so called enemy from obeying God in the first place

so why should I forgive my enemies?

The Executioner is not a murderer, and Confiscation is not theft....................... God is all knowing and perfect, so, we should take it as he knows what he's doing, even when sometimes we're yet to understand it.

KingEbukasBlog:


Nonsense .

Do policemen face any natural disaster or exigent circumstances when they fight against law offenders Or even have to kill them if it is necessary . You are not making any sense .

Read the op for crying out loud ! You are running around this thread like a headless chicken

What is this clown talking about?

Policemen follow the same law as civilians except when it comes to their job in exigent circumstances. A hostile criminal or suspect is an exigent circumstance. This is why police can kill and not be arrested.


You are the one talking nonsense and running like a headless chicken.


God should be subject to a moral framework. Excusing him from the culpability of the plagues and genocides in the bible is not right.

Joshthefirst:


1)God is almighty and all-knowing.

You, in your limitations, questioning his acts, does not just paint you as presumptuous, but also paints you as foolish.

2)And for the benefit of those truly interested, humanity was in danger of extinction from corruption and violence, that's why God flooded the earth.


3)He was tackling an outbreak of corruption, he used the flood to wipe out the initial danger, and used Israel as his sword to wipe out the danger of Canaan and amalek, etc.

It is foolish of you to attack based on records of scripture and reject rebuttals of your attack from the same scriptural records because you reject the bible. Idiocy.


And if you think I take most of your childish wailings seriously, news flash, I don't. You don't really have well-thought out arguments in your armour, and you make up for your ingenuity with your loudness and trolling.

The only time I do good to reply you is mostly for the benefit of other's doubts. Or when you infuriate me exceedingly, or during early days when I didnt know you well enough to realize you were mostly a loud mouthed troll with pathetic arguments and a myriad of memes to make up for your lack of thoughtful arguments.

Let us pick out the silliness in your comments

1) God is all knowing, according to you. However, that is false. An all knowing God would have foreseen the evil in the men of Noah's time and would have changed their hearts with signs and wonders instead of committing genocides. If God is all knowing, why can't he see the future?


2) The punishment for corruption is death? Even the death of little children and animals? You know that he flooded the whole world and so, families died? So, the sins of the father must reflect on the children? Do you see how wrong this all is?


3) Racism, bias and genocide. Even the bible mentions that the isrealites themselves were sinners. Why favour isreal? What did they have as a people that other tribes did not?




Can you see why being the judge, jury and executioner is dangerous? When you are not accountable to laws that affect everyone else, you are heading towards abuse of power. Power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely.

An all knowing deity should be able to avoid numerous deaths, just to make people righteous.

@KingEbukasBlog

The premise of this thread is completely flawed.

How can you say God is not subject to His own laws? That is just not right because God is completely subject to His own laws.
Why do you think Jesus had to die, do you understand why Jesus had to come and die? The death of Jesus Christ had to do with compliance with the terms of the law.

If God cannot conform to His own laws, how then can we conclude that He is a God of judgment and justice? The justice and compliance of God to His own laws is so manifestly expressed in the great sacrifice that He personally underwent for Israel (and by extension- the world) in order to redeem her from the curse of the law. The way of God is judgment and justice and if God will not conform to His own laws He cannot expect us to conform to it.

Genesis 18:19
For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of the Lord, to do justice and judgment; that the Lord may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him.

KingEbukasBlog:
I've always maintained that God is an embodiment of moral good and is not subject to his own laws . If we study the bible closely , it appears that God "disobeys" His own laws . The argument has been God makes laws for us, but seems to disobey those laws Himself. If this is true, so it is argued, God demands more of us than He does of Himself. Let’s explore this argument to test its validity.

Basic Elements of Law


1. Authority.

Law, by its very nature, requires a few basic elements. First, there must be an established authority to make the law. In the case of federal law, the United States consists of branches of duly elected representatives of the people who pass and enforce laws. When it comes to natural law, there are no written ordinances, but the authority that established the principles that govern nature (i.e. God) put them in place by virtue of the fact that He created nature and so has the right to order it as He pleases (cf. Jer. 33:25). Divine Law that is given by revelation is higher than any human law. It is not set by man although many laws of man derive their authority from divine law—and thus from God Himself. Just as God made the elements of the natural world with the laws that govern them, God made man as a spiritual being and He alone holds the ultimate authority to regulate his behavior (Ps. 119:105).

2. Rules.

A second element common to all law is some type of rules or regulations. All laws mandate certain things that must operate a certain way. A system without rules is said to be lawless. Any system that is governed by law operates within set rules and guidelines. It could be a speed limit. The law mandates “70 miles per hour” as the maximum speed at which a vehicle can travel on a certain road. It could be behavior. It is a crime to steal. Law BooksThe nature of the rules depends upon the nature of the thing regulated. In some cases the authority that enforces the rule is understood to stand outside of the rule. The highway patrolman who exceeds 70 miles per hour is not guilty if he does this to catch a driver who is speeding. The policeman that confiscates stolen property is not a thief. Part of their authority exempts them from some measure of accountability to the very laws they must enforce.

3. Jurisdiction.

A third element of all law is jurisdiction. For law to have meaning there must be some realm over which a given law has dominion. The ancient laws of the Hittite empire may be curious relics of antiquity but they no longer hold any power because there is no longer a Hittite empire. The realm and the region over which these laws once held power no longer exists. In regional governments the issue of jurisdiction is paramount. The authority of one state cannot enforce its laws on the citizens of another because it does not have jurisdiction. By the same token, if I violate a practice that is considered criminal in another jurisdiction, but is permitted within the county, state, or country where I live I am not guilty. A good example of this is the burka worn by Muslim women. A woman in the United States is not a criminal if she refuses to wear a burka even though it is required by law in countries such as Saudi Arabia.

4. Subjects.

Finally, in a very similar way, all law must involve subjects—that is, those who are under obligation to that law. We as Nigerians are obligated to obey the laws of our nation because we are properly subjects of the government which holds authority over us, and thus subject to its laws.


God’s Relationship to His Own Laws

1. Laws of Nature.

As we all know God is the authority who established these laws. There are set rules that define these laws. Laws of gravity demand that a rock falls to the ground—it doesn’t float up into the sky. Is God within the jurisdiction of natural law? A key difference between the picture of the God of the Bible and the concepts of pagan false religions is what is called transcendence. Greek GodsThe God of the Bible exists outside of the natural realm that He created. In other words, while Zeus, or Anubis, or Odin were themselves subject to certain laws of nature, the God of the Bible stands outside of the jurisdiction of natural laws. He is the “unmoved Mover.” He is the First Cause of all things! That means He can make an ax-head float (2 Kings 6:5-6). He can make time stand still (Josh. 10:12-13). He can make the shadow of the sundial go backwards (2 Kings 20:10-11). He is not under the jurisdiction of natural law, but very atom within this present universe, together with every soul made in His image is. They are subjects of the natural laws that God established over His creation. Because God transcends the natural universe, He is not a subject of His own creation, and is therefore not subject to the laws that govern it.

2. Moral or Religious Law.

What about moral or religious laws? There is an interesting example that concerns the Sabbath commandment. The rules required that no ordinary work was to be done on the seventh day (Exod. 20:10). This was a law that was not given until the Law of Moses was revealed (Neh. 9:14). It was a law that was not restated under the Law of Christ (Col. 2:16). That means that those who worked on the seventh day before the Law of Moses, as well as those who now live under Christ, and even those who were not a part of the Mosaic covenant during the time of the Israelite commonwealth were outside of its jurisdiction and were not, therefore, subject to its regulation. What about God? This law was drawn from what was said about God’s creation (Exod. 20:11). The present universe was made in six days, but Scripture tells us that after this was done, God “rested on the seventh day from all the work which He had done” (Gen. 2:2). Even before this was given as a law to the Israelites, God is said to have “blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it” (Gen. 2:3). The Hebrew writer, in one sense speaks of God’s works being “finished from the foundation of the world” (Heb. 4:3-4), but Jesus, when criticized for healing on the Sabbath said, “My Father has been working until now, and I have being working” (John 5:16-17). Did God violate His own Sabbath law? No. He stood outside of its jurisdiction and like those before and after the Law of Moses, He was not subject to its regulation.


3. Genocide.

This may seem reasonable when we are talking about things like the Sabbath law, but what is most frequently criticized is God’s treatment of His creation. That is, He commands us not to murder, but then He has commanded the extermination of the Canaanites, and Amalekites. Or, He commands us not to harm one another but He promises to punish the wicked throughout all eternity. Is He breaking His own laws in these examples? What are the basic elements of law in these examples? God is, once again, the established authority and He has set the rules that govern appropriate behavior. Yet, has God defined all taking of life as wrong? No! It is true that man is not to avenge himself (Rom. 12:19), and God condemns murder (Exod. 20:13), but He grants to the civil authority the right to punish even to the point of death those guilty of certain laws (Rom. 13:4). Is the executioner a murderer? No. Like the policeman who speeds to catch someone speeding, the executioner in his authority to carry out punishment is (to a measure) exempt from accountability to the law he is enforcing (cf. Num. 35:27). God on some specific occasions commanded Israel (in essence) to act as His executioner (Deut. 7:1-5; 25:17-19; 1 Sam. 15:1-5). The Canaanites and Amalekites were among some of the most wicked people that history has every known (Deut. 9:4; Ps. 106:34-37). God bore with their wickedness for a time in order to give them time to repent (cf. Gen. 15:16). When the time came, He used Israel as the vehicle by which He ended their ability to do any more wickedness. Did He violate His own law? No. First, because He was never under the jurisdiction of this law, nor a subject to obey it, but also because the people whom He used to carry out His punishment were not violating any divine law themselves. They were carrying out lawful punishment—in this case in the form of warfare.

4. Eternal Punishment.

What about eternal punishment? The issue of jurisdiction is applicable to this question as well. God is not under the jurisdiction of the laws He has set for His creation. When Judgment Day comes the nature of the present jurisdiction will be changed. What rules will govern the age to come? The jurisdiction of the realm of the saved will not be the same as the jurisdiction of the realm of the condemned. For example, to some measure, in that age the present laws of nature will be changed. In the jurisdiction of the saved there will be no more death, nor sorrow, nor pain because for them “the former things have passed away” (Rev. 21:4). On the other hand, some of these things will exist for the lost—“the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” (Rev. 14:11). Is it cruel for God to punish the wicked eternally? Let’s consider this from another angle. If I create something—a piece of pottery, a bird house, a painting, or a machine—what rights do I have over that thing I have created? Am I cruel to the pottery if I reshape it into another vessel? (cf. Jer. 18:5-6). Have I sinned against the bird house if I decide to use it for something else? If the machine turns out to be dangerous, am I a monster if I make certain it is kept away from ever causing any harm to anyone ever again? No.

In our creation it is God that formed the molecules and synaptic responses that form our physical bodies (Ps. 139:13-16). We are His creation—He can do with us as He pleases. God asked Judah, “can I not do to you as this potter?” (Jer. 18:6). Above all other creatures in this universe, He has blessed us by placing within us a spirit that is said to be in His image (Gen. 1:26-27)—we are from this point onward eternal creatures (Eccl. 3:11). That is a blessing! But it is a blessing that demands responsibility. The nature and demands of God are such that all creatures that bear His likeness must conform to His law. For those who fail in this (which is to say all who are morally accountable in age and ability) He has made provision for this failure by the atonement of Christ. What is God to do with those of His creation whom He has made eternal who remain in rebellion to His authority and refuse His regulation? Since He is not a subject of His own law, and therefore not under the jurisdiction of His own authority we cannot even compare any action He takes to punish wrong with committing wrong—remember the executioner is not a murderer. Confiscation is not theft. Those who reject the gospel of Christ establish themselves as a type of eternally dangerous machine that must be forever put where it can never harm the subjects of God’s kingdom ever again—that is essentially what hell is. Is this cruel on God’s part? No, it is His right as Creator and the transcendent authority over His creation.

Reference : http://focusmagazine.org/does-god-violate-his-own-laws.php

cc : winner01 , Joshthefirst , bxcode , MrPresident1, gatiano , unphilaz , Muafrika2, mykohayz Richirich713, MrsPhyno, sukkot, OLAADEGBU , vooks, UyiIredia , Scholar8200, Jeromejnr , plaetton, DeepSight , malvisguy212 Kay17 , PastorAIO , Rawblings , Ayomikun37

Very nice, we'll understand better when we realise that these laws are for things created. Just as we dont follow the operational manual of our inventions!

KingEbukasBlog:
I've always maintained that God is an embodiment of moral good and is not subject to his own laws . If we study the bible closely , it appears that God "disobeys" His own laws . The argument has been God makes laws for us, but seems to disobey those laws Himself. If this is true, so it is argued, God demands more of us than He does of Himself. Let’s explore this argument to test its validity.

Basic Elements of Law


1. Authority.

Law, by its very nature, requires a few basic elements. First, there must be an established authority to make the law. In the case of federal law, the United States consists of branches of duly elected representatives of the people who pass and enforce laws. When it comes to natural law, there are no written ordinances, but the authority that established the principles that govern nature (i.e. God) put them in place by virtue of the fact that He created nature and so has the right to order it as He pleases (cf. Jer. 33:25). Divine Law that is given by revelation is higher than any human law. It is not set by man although many laws of man derive their authority from divine law—and thus from God Himself. Just as God made the elements of the natural world with the laws that govern them, God made man as a spiritual being and He alone holds the ultimate authority to regulate his behavior (Ps. 119:105).

2. Rules.

A second element common to all law is some type of rules or regulations. All laws mandate certain things that must operate a certain way. A system without rules is said to be lawless. Any system that is governed by law operates within set rules and guidelines. It could be a speed limit. The law mandates “70 miles per hour” as the maximum speed at which a vehicle can travel on a certain road. It could be behavior. It is a crime to steal. Law BooksThe nature of the rules depends upon the nature of the thing regulated. In some cases the authority that enforces the rule is understood to stand outside of the rule. The highway patrolman who exceeds 70 miles per hour is not guilty if he does this to catch a driver who is speeding. The policeman that confiscates stolen property is not a thief. Part of their authority exempts them from some measure of accountability to the very laws they must enforce.

3. Jurisdiction.

A third element of all law is jurisdiction. For law to have meaning there must be some realm over which a given law has dominion. The ancient laws of the Hittite empire may be curious relics of antiquity but they no longer hold any power because there is no longer a Hittite empire. The realm and the region over which these laws once held power no longer exists. In regional governments the issue of jurisdiction is paramount. The authority of one state cannot enforce its laws on the citizens of another because it does not have jurisdiction. By the same token, if I violate a practice that is considered criminal in another jurisdiction, but is permitted within the county, state, or country where I live I am not guilty. A good example of this is the burka worn by Muslim women. A woman in the United States is not a criminal if she refuses to wear a burka even though it is required by law in countries such as Saudi Arabia.

4. Subjects.

Finally, in a very similar way, all law must involve subjects—that is, those who are under obligation to that law. We as Nigerians are obligated to obey the laws of our nation because we are properly subjects of the government which holds authority over us, and thus subject to its laws.


God’s Relationship to His Own Laws

1. Laws of Nature.

As we all know God is the authority who established these laws. There are set rules that define these laws. Laws of gravity demand that a rock falls to the ground—it doesn’t float up into the sky. Is God within the jurisdiction of natural law? A key difference between the picture of the God of the Bible and the concepts of pagan false religions is what is called transcendence. Greek GodsThe God of the Bible exists outside of the natural realm that He created. In other words, while Zeus, or Anubis, or Odin were themselves subject to certain laws of nature, the God of the Bible stands outside of the jurisdiction of natural laws. He is the “unmoved Mover.” He is the First Cause of all things! That means He can make an ax-head float (2 Kings 6:5-6). He can make time stand still (Josh. 10:12-13). He can make the shadow of the sundial go backwards (2 Kings 20:10-11). He is not under the jurisdiction of natural law, but very atom within this present universe, together with every soul made in His image is. They are subjects of the natural laws that God established over His creation. Because God transcends the natural universe, He is not a subject of His own creation, and is therefore not subject to the laws that govern it.

2. Moral or Religious Law.

What about moral or religious laws? There is an interesting example that concerns the Sabbath commandment. The rules required that no ordinary work was to be done on the seventh day (Exod. 20:10). This was a law that was not given until the Law of Moses was revealed (Neh. 9:14). It was a law that was not restated under the Law of Christ (Col. 2:16). That means that those who worked on the seventh day before the Law of Moses, as well as those who now live under Christ, and even those who were not a part of the Mosaic covenant during the time of the Israelite commonwealth were outside of its jurisdiction and were not, therefore, subject to its regulation. What about God? This law was drawn from what was said about God’s creation (Exod. 20:11). The present universe was made in six days, but Scripture tells us that after this was done, God “rested on the seventh day from all the work which He had done” (Gen. 2:2). Even before this was given as a law to the Israelites, God is said to have “blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it” (Gen. 2:3). The Hebrew writer, in one sense speaks of God’s works being “finished from the foundation of the world” (Heb. 4:3-4), but Jesus, when criticized for healing on the Sabbath said, “My Father has been working until now, and I have being working” (John 5:16-17). Did God violate His own Sabbath law? No. He stood outside of its jurisdiction and like those before and after the Law of Moses, He was not subject to its regulation.


3. Genocide.

This may seem reasonable when we are talking about things like the Sabbath law, but what is most frequently criticized is God’s treatment of His creation. That is, He commands us not to murder, but then He has commanded the extermination of the Canaanites, and Amalekites. Or, He commands us not to harm one another but He promises to punish the wicked throughout all eternity. Is He breaking His own laws in these examples? What are the basic elements of law in these examples? God is, once again, the established authority and He has set the rules that govern appropriate behavior. Yet, has God defined all taking of life as wrong? No! It is true that man is not to avenge himself (Rom. 12:19), and God condemns murder (Exod. 20:13), but He grants to the civil authority the right to punish even to the point of death those guilty of certain laws (Rom. 13:4). Is the executioner a murderer? No. Like the policeman who speeds to catch someone speeding, the executioner in his authority to carry out punishment is (to a measure) exempt from accountability to the law he is enforcing (cf. Num. 35:27). God on some specific occasions commanded Israel (in essence) to act as His executioner (Deut. 7:1-5; 25:17-19; 1 Sam. 15:1-5). The Canaanites and Amalekites were among some of the most wicked people that history has every known (Deut. 9:4; Ps. 106:34-37). God bore with their wickedness for a time in order to give them time to repent (cf. Gen. 15:16). When the time came, He used Israel as the vehicle by which He ended their ability to do any more wickedness. Did He violate His own law? No. First, because He was never under the jurisdiction of this law, nor a subject to obey it, but also because the people whom He used to carry out His punishment were not violating any divine law themselves. They were carrying out lawful punishment—in this case in the form of warfare.

4. Eternal Punishment.

What about eternal punishment? The issue of jurisdiction is applicable to this question as well. God is not under the jurisdiction of the laws He has set for His creation. When Judgment Day comes the nature of the present jurisdiction will be changed. What rules will govern the age to come? The jurisdiction of the realm of the saved will not be the same as the jurisdiction of the realm of the condemned. For example, to some measure, in that age the present laws of nature will be changed. In the jurisdiction of the saved there will be no more death, nor sorrow, nor pain because for them “the former things have passed away” (Rev. 21:4). On the other hand, some of these things will exist for the lost—“the smoke of their torment rises forever and ever” (Rev. 14:11). Is it cruel for God to punish the wicked eternally? Let’s consider this from another angle. If I create something—a piece of pottery, a bird house, a painting, or a machine—what rights do I have over that thing I have created? Am I cruel to the pottery if I reshape it into another vessel? (cf. Jer. 18:5-6). Have I sinned against the bird house if I decide to use it for something else? If the machine turns out to be dangerous, am I a monster if I make certain it is kept away from ever causing any harm to anyone ever again? No.

In our creation it is God that formed the molecules and synaptic responses that form our physical bodies (Ps. 139:13-16). We are His creation—He can do with us as He pleases. God asked Judah, “can I not do to you as this potter?” (Jer. 18:6). Above all other creatures in this universe, He has blessed us by placing within us a spirit that is said to be in His image (Gen. 1:26-27)—we are from this point onward eternal creatures (Eccl. 3:11). That is a blessing! But it is a blessing that demands responsibility. The nature and demands of God are such that all creatures that bear His likeness must conform to His law. For those who fail in this (which is to say all who are morally accountable in age and ability) He has made provision for this failure by the atonement of Christ. What is God to do with those of His creation whom He has made eternal who remain in rebellion to His authority and refuse His regulation? Since He is not a subject of His own law, and therefore not under the jurisdiction of His own authority we cannot even compare any action He takes to punish wrong with committing wrong—remember the executioner is not a murderer. Confiscation is not theft. Those who reject the gospel of Christ establish themselves as a type of eternally dangerous machine that must be forever put where it can never harm the subjects of God’s kingdom ever again—that is essentially what hell is. Is this cruel on God’s part? No, it is His right as Creator and the transcendent authority over His creation.

Reference : http://focusmagazine.org/does-god-violate-his-own-laws.php

cc : winner01 , Joshthefirst , bxcode , MrPresident1, gatiano , unphilaz , Muafrika2, mykohayz Richirich713, MrsPhyno, sukkot, OLAADEGBU , vooks, UyiIredia , Scholar8200, Jeromejnr , plaetton, DeepSight , malvisguy212 Kay17 , PastorAIO , Rawblings , Ayomikun37

make i book space lol. i shall contribute intelligently after i have eaten and bathe. i jus wake up lolz. looks interesting though

@KingEbukasBlog
Just so you understand why Jesus Christ had to die for Israel and the greatness of the justice and mercy of God, let me use this short story to illustrate the symbology of Christ's death:

There was a very powerful king who betrothed a virgin and made her His queen, he loved his queen so much, he gave her everything she ever asked for, he gave her his whole kingdom to rule, he practically worshipped her, and the very ground she walked on was sacred to Him. He so loved this woman.

However, there was a law in that kingdom, that any woman who committed adultery must die. So before a marriage is held in that kingdom, the bride is made to understand this law very well because in that kingdom, any laws made were irrevocable.

How the king loved his queen!

Unfortunately, one day disaster happened! The queen was caught in adultery! The king was aghast! The kingdom was thrown into disorder, the queen had committed sacrilege, the queen must die! There was no remedy, it was the law of the king, it was the law of the kingdom, the queen must die.

There was however a remedy, a very tough one, but if the king was willing and ready, his queen would be saved.

The king must abdicate his thrown, and the king must die! After this, the queen will become an outcast but she would not die.

The king abdicated his thrown and died for the redemption of his queen. The queen became an outcast.

This story is the symbology of the death of Christ; why Christ had to die.

@op, Hmmm, you have really made some good and wonderful points here, and i really really appreciate it.

Even though my name is not mentioned on that list, i think i will personally going to disagree with you to an extend.

On your Number 4: which is eternal punishment.
And i want to ask, pls i need ur reply, can you hang your dog for eating your meat for one whole years, let assume the dog finally gave up at the end of the year, will you be looking at that ur pet hanging up there in pains, let say for one good year


Good, you gave an example in they book of Jeremiah 18, 5-6, am talking about the potter and the clay pot.
Yes i can mode a pot with clay and if i don.t like the shape or the design, i may decides to break it up and mode another one.

This one is talking about discipline . The book of proverb says correct the child when he is young, so that when he grows old he will not depart from it.

Israel is like a hot iron in the hand of God, he has dealt with them , chastise them, and build them up again to his own taste.
That's what place is saying, and not to burn Israel forever in fire.

There is an adage in Yoruba which says oribibe kologun orififo. Which means to cut off a head with a cutlass is not the medicine of a headache.

By the way if hellfire is real where sinners will burn with fire forever.
Why were it not included in the commandment that God gave to Moses

Why did all the great prophet of God not warn man of the danger of hellfire, E:g Jeremiah, Ezekiel, Daniel, David, Solomon, Elijah, Elisha, and even Job who God also called righteous, none of them talks about Hellfire, even Job 14;14 says when a man die shall he live again? That was Job speaking, even the book of ecclesiates never mentioned it.

Now are you saying that God forgot to tell them Mmmmm.

Do you even know the gap inbetween the days of Adam, Noah , methusela and Jesus

Can you tell me how many generations that is between them,

are you saying that, they re all going to hell?

Are you saying that Jesus just wakes up one morning and decided to create hellfire

If yes, then hellfire was not in his original plan, is that what you re saying?

Then if hellfire was his original plans, why did he not warned his children on the impending danger

Pls and pls don.t tell me that Jesus went to the grave to preach for sinners, and therefore save them.

Then you have complicated the whole issue,
then you are trying to discredit God, and make him like ordinary man who don.t know the future, and that will be an insult to him. If he allow me to die and come and preach to me in the grave, in other to save me. Hmmm.

Did you just say their righteousness will take them to heaven, Mmmmm, it means you re calling Jesus and God himself a liar.

Because John 3;16 makes me to understand that Jesus came to save sinners and give them everlasting life and nobody will be able to make heaven without him, intact he even go further to say that nobody has ever been to heaven except him who came from heaven, sir is Jesus lying to us.

Am waiting for Your humble responds, till i hear from you.

Thank you.

Logicbwoy:



What is this clown talking about?

Policemen follow the same law as civilians except when it comes to their job in exigent circumstances. A hostile criminal or suspect is an exigent circumstance. This is why police can kill and not be arrested.


You are the one talking nonsense and running like a headless chicken.


God should be subject to a moral framework. Excusing him from the culpability of the plagues and genocides in the bible is not right.

You are not serious . You are trolling obviously

KingEbukasBlog:


You are not serious . You are trolling obviously

Trolling?

Abegi- your thread has been nuked by both christians and atheists!