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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? (7938 Views)
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Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by donnffd(m): 6:27pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
shadeyinka: Ok fine, i concede... let me rephrase it, what is the plan behind Natural disasters? |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by donnffd(m): 6:28pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
Smallville10: Lol...ok sir |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by donnffd(m): 6:30pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
DoctorAlien: But he knew he would be satan later on... |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by DoctorAlien(m): 6:33pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
KingEtienneSky: I think you need to start reading this thread from the beginning. |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by DoctorAlien(m): 6:34pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
donnffd:Well, yes. |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by shadeyinka(m): 6:36pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
donnffd: There is no plan behind natural disasters! Its like a Trojan infestation of a computer: some unplanned things happen. Is it the fault of the manufacturer? Even the user could have inherited the computer! Something tampered with the original plan of the earth and that is the main problem every thing we see as bad are just symptoms of the initial infection. This had always been the Christian Theists position 1 Like 1 Share |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by DeSepiero(m): 7:45pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
Y'all defending god, it is well |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by Kay17: 7:49pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
DoctorAlien: Then he must have been foolish to 'choose' pride despite knowing it's pitfalls. He must have known the futility in besting God. Besides i have reservations that pride is a conscious act rather it's a feeling that comes before the thought of pride. Emotions come when they wish. love hate etc come without active thoughts |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by DoctorAlien(m): 7:55pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
Kay17: This leads us to the first post I made on this thread. |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by butterfly88(m): 8:06pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
shadeyinka:bolded sir...does this mean that the Creator was imperfect afterall, and has,no knowledge that his "perfect plan" will be altered.? |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by DoctorAlien(m): 8:32pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
donnffd, This little summary of mine, though imperfect, might be of help to you: GOD has always been. He will always be. He is Love and He radiates Love. He wanted to create beings whom He would love, and who will be able to choose to love and serve Him for the loving Creator He is. He would create them with freewill and not as robots without minds of their own. He knew that the gift of freewill will be abused, and that rebellion will arise from one of His creatures with freewill. What should He do? Not create beings capable of choosing to love Him because one of them would choose not to do so? No. He is able to salvage the situation should one of His creatures rebel and introduce sin. He creates angels, including Lucifer. Lucifer decides not to give the glory to GOD. Sin comes. Satan is cast out. GOD creates man. Man decides to disobey GOD. Sin spreads to man. GOD will not leave man to suffer. He has provided salvation in Jesus Christ. Receive Him and receive eternal life. |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by shadeyinka(m): 9:20pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
butterfly88: shadeyinka: LOL! I am speaking with respect to the user of the hypothetical computer where to the user, unplanned things like sluggishness, crash of HDD, I'd theft etc could occur. By original plan I compare with how the computer was designed to function by the manufacturer. The Manufacturer handed the computer to the user with a warning: "DO NOT ACCEPT A SOFTWARE FROM UNVERIFIED SOURCE". If the user disobeys the manufacturer and his computer gets infacted, erratic and dangerous computer behaviours could be expected. This is the state of the Earth: given to Man with an instruction of not violating a command. Of course, man violated the command and a trojan was planted in the earth. Now your question: Does it mean that God was caught unawares? NO! The fall of man actually serves God the purpose of " weeding out" men who choose not to love and follow God by their volition. It also serve as an avenue to harvest men who will unconditionally love and trust God for such, God need in eternity with Himself. In the scriptures the overcomes are known as "cloud of witness." |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by donnffd(m): 9:46pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
DoctorAlien: Lol...what makes you think i want eternal life?, wont it get tiring and boring after the first 10,000years? |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by donnffd(m): 9:53pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
shadeyinka: Lol, i love your writeup and your responses so far, kudos. But because someone knows the story of Harry potter well, doesnt change the fact that it was imaginary(i use this just as an example). Your theology might hold up, i give you that but that doesnt mean its foundation is not weak. |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by DoctorAlien(m): 9:58pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
donnffd: I know that not everybody wants eternal life. People have different choices. No. It will never be boring throughout eternity. |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by akintom(m): 10:20pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
shadeyinka: If the creatures were made in the image and likeness of God according to Bible. If the source of all knowledge (omniscient) and ability (omnipotent) is God, then, whatever the creature knows and can do, is from the body knowledge and ability of God. The conclusion therefore is that the very source of disobedience to God (evil) is God himself. The reason therefore for my summary description of bible as a badly written fictional book. |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by Nobody: 10:24pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
akintom:Your methods of skepticism is familiar. Are you not lawani (Akin Lawanson)? 1 Like |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by akintom(m): 11:14pm On Oct 13, 2016 |
donnffd: I speak as humanist It's all about nomenclature, human beings gave the name "good" to every natural phenomena that elicit pleasant experience and "bad/evil" to unpleasant experience. Natural phenomena are in themselves neither good nor evil, it's the feeling they elicit in human experience that creates the labeling of good or evil. For example, for an old man that is terminally ill of painful cancer, death will elicit feeling of good. But death will elicit the feeling of evil in a non terminally ill young man. My conclusion therefore is, the origin or source of evil (a labeling) is unpleasant response to natural phenomena. Religious/Gods beliefs are mere concepts of human imagination built on assumptions (no empirical facts or evidences). The Gods that came from nothing can only explain nothing. Even if one assume that Gods exist, the very God that's claimed to be good, is the very source of evil. Since he's the source/creator of everything. |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by shadeyinka(m): 6:34am On Oct 14, 2016 |
donnffd: How about in a place where time doesn't exist..then 999,999,999,000 earth years would go without you knowing. Even if men colonized Mars, we would use Mars timings isn't it? |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by shadeyinka(m): 6:43am On Oct 14, 2016 |
donnffd: LOL! You claim that the foundation is weak only on the assumption that every fact must be physical to be valuable. But not every event is physical! Spiritual things can be understood to a large extent..its not all about faith. Experience also reinforce both the understanding and faith. Weak Foundation? No! No!! No!!! |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by shadeyinka(m): 6:46am On Oct 14, 2016 |
akintom: I think your premise is very wrong. The fact that man was made in the image of God does not imply that man was a copy of God. Just imagine a scientist building a humanoid robot. He would make him not of flesh and blood but of plastics, metals, microprocessors etc. And this robot even if he looks on the outside like man is NOT man but a robot. In the image of God simply means as a Trinity ( Body, Soul and Spirit). If man was made omniscient, he could NEVER sin! |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by frank317: 6:47am On Oct 14, 2016 |
shadeyinka: Chairman! Evil is not just all about intention. It's an aftermath of an action or event. Poverty is evil, the effect of floor is evil, plague is evil. All these have nothing to do with intention yet we can call them evil. 1 Like |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by akintom(m): 6:58am On Oct 14, 2016 |
shadeyinka: Thank you for your response, Can you please explain the meaning of the "God created man in his image and likeness" according to the book of genesis. |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by shadeyinka(m): 7:00am On Oct 14, 2016 |
frank317: I believe I answered a similar post: shadeyinka: Another similar post: shadeyinka: Not everything can be typified as good or evil. A Knife is very useful but can also be used for murder. Would we say that a Bokoharam knife used to slaughter 100 people is evil? No! It is the people Bokoharam that is evil. |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by akintom(m): 7:03am On Oct 14, 2016 |
lordnicklaus: Can you please be decent and sincere in your engagement? Well, if you must know, and for the purpose of helping your assumption, am Thomas akingbade. You can check me out on Facebook. Do well to engage on facts and not irrelevant side kicks |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by frank317: 7:12am On Oct 14, 2016 |
shadeyinka: "Creation" of free will is the cause of evil. Evil is the by product of free will. God gave us free will which brought about evil. God is all knowing, he knew that free will will bring about evil. It's obvious thay without free will, there will be no evil. The creator of free will is the source of evil. GOD IS the source of evil. Seriously, what does this ur God really want? |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by shadeyinka(m): 7:14am On Oct 14, 2016 |
akintom: In summary: Angels were made a Duality (Soul and Spirit) Animals were made a Duality (Body and Soul) Man was Made a Trinity (Body, Soul and Spirit) God is a Trinity (The Father, The Word, The Holy Spirit) Man would have been no better than animals except for the fact that God breath into Adam (His Spirit) and Adam became a Living Soul (Eternal Soul) Man was created to be the Overseer of Everything God made on the Earth as God is the Overseer of the whole universe! |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by donnffd(m): 7:17am On Oct 14, 2016 |
akintom: I could not agree with you more... |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by shadeyinka(m): 7:23am On Oct 14, 2016 |
frank317: You are perfectly correct up to this point! frank317: Can we ascribe the cause of death of thousands of innocent people to the creator of Boeing 747 or Toyota Hilux? Did the builder of these two transport devices know that it will cause the death of people? Are they then Evil? Would it be better not to create Boeing 747 or Toyota Hilux because of foreknowledge that they will cause death? So, you see that your basis of conclusion isn't valid |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by shadeyinka(m): 7:37am On Oct 14, 2016 |
donnffd: akintom: Critical analysis of the bolded will lead to a conclusion of "Not True!". I feel sad : a lady turned me down! I am sad: I failed my medical exam! I feel pain: my 98 year old Grandma died! Evil is NOT defined by Feeling. You agreed with his submission because you have the same conclusion that God doesn't Exist. |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by donnffd(m): 8:05am On Oct 14, 2016 |
shadeyinka: Personally, i believe evil encompasses both intentionality and natural. Intention: Mans inhumanity to man, slavery, rape, murder, genocide, wars, racism, homophobia, e.t.c... these are evils that we bring upon ourselves. Natural: hurricanes, earthquakes, flooding, asteroid strike, solar radiation, diseases, a baby born with cancer...these are natural evils in which we have absolutely have no control over. The former can be attributed to free will like you said, and i agree whole heartedly while the latter, well the latter is really indifferent about us and our feelings, and since evil is a feeling being created on a third party, Nature most times feel evil to us, but this is exactly the kind of universe you would expect to live in if there was no benevolent, all powerful, all loving creator who wants the best for us. |
Re: A Sincere Question For Theists: Where Did Evil Originate From? by frank317: 8:21am On Oct 14, 2016 |
shadeyinka: Yes we can ascribe the source of death of thousands to them if they know their creation will definitely lead to death. If they claim they know that the plain will definitely crash, they should be sued. They don't know... We can't say they are evil. I recall Honda once recalled one of their models because they found out it was faulty and was causing life. U see as humans, our uncertainty about life is why we depend on trial and error to survive. It sounds so unbelievable that ur so called every every God is also unto trial and error.
Who gave humans foreknowledge that it will cause death? Are humans now God too? Do u know the safty precautions these manufacturers apply before releasing their products? If they have foreknowledge of how it will cause death they instantly take necessary precautions. If they had foreknowledge of how their products will cause death, they will make a perfect product.
Nope, they basis of my conclusion is perfectly valid. U are just refusing to think this through and I wonder why. |
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