NinjaX:


Not the biblical one anyway.

So which one coz none of 'em have been proven

Stop tagging me in ur shitt threads Bbfever!

foladara777:

Really?? Why not...
Why would God have the power to create perfection but prefer imperfection... And we're not talking technicalities here... We're talking of earthquakes leading to loss of lives and properties millions of them!! That's not delusion that's logic... Even supposedly inferior beings seek for perfection in what they create...

then use your so called logic to disprove them as "not a delusion".

after that I would do the needful.

jonbellion:
stop quoting me thank you

did we sign any quoting contract ?
whenever you make a dumb comment, just expect me.

promisechuks:


did we sign any quoting contract ?

whenever you make a dumb comment, just expect me.

whatever rocks your boat dude

foladara777:

Am not omnipotent but I know the meaning of the word... It's logic... If a father claims to have infinite money and he also claims to be a good father... How do u reconcile both characteristics if he makes his own son die of hunger without any wrongdoing on the part of the son...
This dilemma about God is what no theist has been able to explain ever... This was the first question that made me wonder about the person of God... U won't admit it but u also don't have an explanation for this contradictory properties of God, that's why you are discouraging me from asking the question

Did i say i was discouraging you from seeking answers? The question is, what answer would satisfy you?

I have given you all available answers and even dropped Job 38 for you to swallow and digest but you still wish to ask questions similar to when an ANT would find itself in a desert and imagine that such dryness and empty land mass serves no purpose so must be removed.

You are only limited in reasoning which is why you are asking these questions. But like i said, no man or woman on this earth can give you a 100% satisfactory answer because nobody is Omniscient to have an idea of WHY.

However if we look at nature and its workings you will realize that in all the alleged imperfection everything somehow is connected to the other and serve a purpose for each other and their individual imperfections always come together at a point to produce perfection. Its like an engine with many working parts which carry out different functions but somehow all those different functions end up doing just one thing...and that is to make the vehicle move forward or backward but these parts get worn out or damaged eventually but that does not in any way disrupt the purpose and perfection they produce when working together.

Earthquakes serve their purpose as well as everything else and everyday we are discovering what these are just like this article shows and i quote

Current estimates suggest that the deep Earth may hold as much water as all the oceans on the planet's surface combined. This reservoir of water, and the additional trove brucite may also hold, are vitally important to the movement of materials through the Earth. As water-containing minerals travel down through the Earth's layers, the materials eventually decompose, releasing the water that makes its way back to the surface, often through volcanic activity.

Water is essential to the recycling of minerals through volcanism and plate tectonics, because it provides the lubrication needed for the various rock materials to move past each other, as occurs in subduction zones. It also helps some materials dissolve as the move through the rock cycle. Without water, said Hermann, the planet would come to a geologic standstill. This means no new crust or soil, and a halt in volcanism; these changes could have catastrophic effects on the planet's land and atmosphere.

4everGod:


Did i say i was discouraging you from seeking answers? The question is, what answer would satisfy you?

I have given you all available answers and even dropped Job 38 for you to swallow and digest but you still wish to ask questions similar to when an ANT would find itself in a desert and imagine that such dryness and empty land mass serves no purpose so must be removed.

You are only limited in reasoning which is why you are asking these questions. But like i said, no man or woman on this earth can give you a 100% satisfactory answer because nobody is Omniscient to have an idea of WHY.

However if we look at nature and its workings you will realize that in all the alleged imperfection everything somehow is connected to the other and serve a purpose for each other and their individual imperfections always come together at a point to produce perfection. Its like an engine with many working parts which carry out different functions but somehow all those different functions end up doing just one thing...and that is to make the vehicle move forward or backward but these parts get worn out or damaged eventually but that does not in any way disrupt the purpose and perfection they produce when working together.

Earthquakes serve their purpose as well as everything else and everyday we are discovering what these are just like this article shows and i quote

lol this just sheds more light on plate tectonics
Do you creationists even agree with the theory

promisechuks:


then use your so called logic to disprove them as "not a delusion".

after that I would do the needful.

I already explained many times on this thread... But so u won't have an excuse to dodge, I will do it again...
There are two characteristics of God, one is being the Almighty I.e. omnipotence meaning he can do ANYTHING, no. Second is he is benevolent I.e. he is good.
Let's use earthquakes as a case study... Earthquakes are not caused by any act of man, they are natural disasters... So answer these questions:
Can God prevent earthquakes?? The answer should be: of course! He's the almighty.
So why doesn't he prevent earthquakes?? A good god would want to prevent anything that causes loss of millions of lives, right?
If your answer is that God cannot prevent earthquakes, then that means it's not correct to say that God can do all things.... Gerrit??

jonbellion:
actually for Noahs ark to have happened we'd need a lot more water than that

A lot more what? Water?

Did you miss this part of the article ?

Current estimates suggest that the deep Earth may hold as much water as all the oceans on the planet's surface combined.

You do know that the earth is covered by 70% water right? Now if the current estimated data suggests that the water inside the earth is the size of all the oceans on earth combined then you have 70% x 2. Now tell me you would need a lot more water than this.

jonbellion:
lol this just sheds more light on plate tectonics
Do you creationists even agree with the theory

Young man i believe you are intelligent. If God created the earth do you think He did not also deliberately ensure we have tectonic plates react the way they do? I told you that everything has a purpose. I suggest you read the article again.

promisechuks:

you made a claim.

where is your claim based?

Probability.
But even at that, I thought christians ought to have faith? Don't you believe in the possibility of the impossible again?

Nobody is answering a major question i asked. Scientists have discovered a massive ocean of water inside the earth and in Genesis account of the Flood it records that the waters inside the earth came up to the surface.

How did the men of old who were inspired to pen the scriptures know about this water inside the earth since they had no scientific knowledge?

Answers pls anyone?

4everGod:


A lot more what? Water?

Did you miss this part of the article ?



You do know that the earth is covered by 70% water right? Now if the current estimated data suggests that the water inside the earth is the size of all the oceans on earth combined then you have 70% x 2. Now tell me you would need a lot more water than this.

actually you would
The current average water on earth is about 1.3 billion cubic kilometres
To achieve a flood of such magnitude you'd need like times four of that

4everGod:


Did i say i was discouraging you from seeking answers? The question is, what answer would satisfy you?

I have given you all available answers and even dropped Job 38 for you to swallow and digest but you still wish to ask questions similar to when an ANT would find itself in a desert and imagine that such dryness and empty land mass serves no purpose so must be removed.

You are only limited in reasoning which is why you are asking these questions. But like i said, no man or woman on this earth can give you a 100% satisfactory answer because nobody is Omniscient to have an idea of WHY.

However if we look at nature and its workings you will realize that in all the alleged imperfection everything somehow is connected to the other and serve a purpose for each other and their individual imperfections always come together at a point to produce perfection. Its like an engine with many working parts which carry out different functions but somehow all those different functions end up doing just one thing...and that is to make the vehicle move forward or backward but these parts get worn out or damaged eventually but that does not in any way disrupt the purpose and perfection they produce when working together.

Earthquakes serve their purpose as well as everything else and everyday we are discovering what these are just like this article shows and i quote

U have still not disproved my argument...
U claim earthquakes are necessary... I totally agree, couldn't God have created an earth where earthquakes will not be necessary. I mean, why make earthquakes necessary if I have the power to create an earth where earthquakes are unnecessary..
Is it that God cannot make the earth without making earthquakes necessary?? If this is the case, then it is not true that God can do anything.
If God has the power to make earthquakes unnecessary but he still chooses to make earthquakes necessary, then he's not a good god..
This simple argument shows why the Christian notion of God cannot be correct and it doesn't matter how many verses I quote, the fact won't change

foladara777:

So which one coz none of 'em have been proven

Don't know. But I based my premise on newton's law of motion which states that "action and reaction are equal and opposite", or "to every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction"; thus somehow, there should be a determining cause behind creation, and not just a random cause attributed to chance, a definite one.

jonbellion:
actually you would
The current average water on earth is about 1.3 billion cubic kilometres
To achieve a flood of such magnitude you'd need like times four of that

Keeping the article in mind, let me quote Genesis 7: 11

When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the underground waters erupted from the earth, and the rain fell in mighty torrents from the sky.

the article talks about the underground ocean being the size of all the oceans. The earth is 70% water and then we have the Mighty torrents of rain that fell from the sky.

Assuming all 3 worked together at the same time can you imagine the impact?

4everGod:
Nobody is answering a major question i asked. Scientists have discovered a massive ocean of water inside the earth and in Genesis account of the Flood it records that the waters inside the earth came up to the surface.

How did the men of old who were inspired to pen the scriptures know about this water inside the earth since they had no scientific knowledge?

Answers pls anyone?

Actually, if I wanted to argue like you, this would be the answer... When bible says inside the earth, it didn't mean water at the center of the earth beneath the soil, it actually meant water in the oceans. The average depth of the oceans is almost 4km, compared to the land we stand on that is insides of the earth

foladara777:

U have still not disproved my argument...
U claim earthquakes are necessary... I totally agree, couldn't God have created an earth where earthquakes will not be necessary. I mean, why make earthquakes necessary if I have the power to create an earth where earthquakes are unnecessary..
Is it that God cannot make the earth without making earthquakes necessary?? If this is the case, then it is not true that God can do anything.
If God has the power to make earthquakes unnecessary but he still chooses to make earthquakes necessary, then he's not a good god..
This simple argument shows why the Christian notion of God cannot be correct and it doesn't matter how many verses I quote, the fact won't change

This still takes us back to Omniscience! The earth is more complex than you can imagine and so are its inhabitants ...flora, fauna both seen and unseen, humanity, etc. There has to be a meeting place for everything to work together seamlessly.

Your idea of goodness is very shallow indeed because you have no basis for comparison besides assumptions since you hae never experience omniscience. Or have you?

foladara777:

U have still not disproved my argument...
U claim earthquakes are necessary... I totally agree, couldn't God have created an earth where earthquakes will not be necessary. I mean, why make earthquakes necessary if I have the power to create an earth where earthquakes are unnecessary..
Is it that God cannot make the earth without making earthquakes necessary?? If this is the case, then it is not true that God can do anything.
If God has the power to make earthquakes unnecessary but he still chooses to make earthquakes necessary, then he's not a good god..
This simple argument shows why the Christian notion of God cannot be correct and it doesn't matter how many verses I quote, the fact won't change

What in this context do you mean by the Christian notion of God?

foladara777:

Actually, if I wanted to argue like you, this would be the answer... When bible says inside the earth, it didn't mean water at the center of the earth beneath the soil, it actually meant water in the oceans. The average depth of the oceans is almost 4km, compared to the land we stand on that is insides of the earth

The statement was emphatic

Genesis 7: 11

When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the underground waters erupted from the earth, and the rain fell in mighty torrents from the sky.

Ranchhoddas:
What in this context do you mean by the Christian notion of God?

The notion that God is all powerful and is good...

foladara777:

The notion that God is all powerful and is good...

So how would you describe God in your own experience?

foladara777:

The notion that God is all powerful and is good...

If a good and all powerful God decides to withold his goodness and power for some reason, would it make Him any less powerful and good?

4everGod:


The statement was emphatic

Genesis 7: 11

When Noah was 600 years old, on the seventeenth day of the second month, all the underground waters erupted from the earth, and the rain fell in mighty torrents from the sky.

It's amazing that u didn't look for the Hebrew and Greek translations of the word under ground but if it were a passage of the bible not scientifically accurate, u would bring in different translations to show that the English translation is not correct...
Anyways, Gen 8:2
2 The outlets of the water beneath the earth and the floodgates of the sky were closed. The rain stopped, 3 and the water gradually went down for 150 days
So the passage through which the water burst through was closed before the water started going down... So where did the water go... See, just when you thought your bible had scientific backing, it shoots itself in the foot once again

Ranchhoddas:
If a good and all powerful God decides to withold his goodness and power for some reason, would it make Him any less powerful and good?

Yes.. It would make him not good... If I have the power to save a child from drowning, and I do not... I am not good

4everGod:


So how would you describe God in your own experience?

Describe God?? I don't believe in God, if tomorrow there's proof of the type of God that we imagine, then I would be the most ardent believer

4everGod:


This still takes us back to Omniscience! The earth is more complex than you can imagine and so are its inhabitants ...flora, fauna both seen and unseen, humanity, etc. There has to be a meeting place for everything to work together seamlessly.

Your idea of goodness is very shallow indeed because you have no basis for comparison besides assumptions since you hae never experience omniscience. Or have you?

U have still not countered my argument... Omniscience doesn't remove anything from the argument... Make this easy for both of us... Use the earthquake analogy to disprove my argument

NinjaX:


Don't know. But I based my premise on newton's law of motion which states that "action and reaction are equal and opposite", or "to every action, there is an equal and opposite reaction"; thus somehow, there should be a determining cause behind creation, and not just a random cause attributed to chance, a definite one.

Wow, that makes sense in a weird way

foladara777:

Yes.. It would make him not good... If I have the power to save a child from drowning, and I do not... I am not good

Sounds easy on the eye but have you wondered that it may be more complicated than we know? What if the child's death is a necessary 'evil', a result of events or processes the details of which our finite minds are not fully aware of. Would you still describe God as not good?

foladara777:

Wow, that makes sense in a weird way

Really? The atheist would usually scream special pleading at this point.

Ranchhoddas:
Sounds easy on the eye but have you wondered that it may be more complicated than we know? What if the child's death is a necessary 'evil', a result of events or processes the details of which our finite minds are not fully aware of. Would you still describe God as not good?

No, but then he won't be the almighty. He's doing his best but if God can't create a plan without drawbacks or flaws, then he is not all powerful... If he was all powerful, he would have the ability to create a system where "evil would not be necessary"... Could god have prevented the death of the child while his plan still works perfectly?? U can't choose one or the other, it has to be both

foladara777:

Wow, that makes sense in a weird way

Weird as it may seem, that law goes further to defeat the existence of God and the cycle of life - as the bible states that God has no beginning nor end.

Boom! Again we are hurled back at the starting point. More confusion.