Olanna45:


1) Yes. The girl child is regarded as not being so important. Like she grows up, gets married its the male child who continues the lineage.

2) yes... They are not allowed, though there might some exceptions in this.

3) They are allowed to own cash crops, but they are not allowed to own yam barns...
Most atimes, the cash crops are given to them by their husbands so they feed their children with its proceeds.

4) yes. 2nd class citizen in the sense that the male child comes first.. His needs are considered to be more important.
As for submission, it is a must. Even if your husband is useless(sorry for the choice of word)

Coming to inheritance, an igbo woman has no inheritance in her father's house. There is a proverb which says "Onye iberibe amaghi na adanne ya bu obia"
A fool do not know that his elder sister is a visitor in their father's house"

Polygamy; A typical igbo man sees polygamy as an achievement. More wives, more sons, more yam barns.

Divorce: it is not allowed. A widow is more accepted in the pre colonial igbo society than a female divorceee... She will be tagged as a bad wife. No one cares to know the reason for the divorce.

Recreation;

The most common form recreation for the pre colonial woman is dancing. Dance groups are formed according to age grades.

Pre marital sex is a no no. If the husband finds out she has being deflowered before marriage, the man has the right to return her to her father's house and collect the bride price back. Such a lady will be stigmatized, the shame will be extended to the father and siblings. The father will portion the whole blame on the wife.


The issue of a woman' marrying' a wife for herself is very common in the pre colonial days and it is still been practiced by some communities today.

A barren woman might decide to marry a young lady, in most cases the ladies being married are those with unwanted pregnancies, divorcees, childless widows.. This lady is allowed to sleep with any man, once she concieves and put to bed, the child bears the name of the woman who married the mother... The father is just a sperm donor. He has no right over the child.

This mostly done by barren women, wonen who had only female children..

I really can't say that some of these practices has been done away with. Families these make the decision on how they wish to treat their girl child. But in a typical igbo community, nothing has changed.

Pidgin2:


I don't think there's any tribe worse than the igbos when it comes to devaluing of the girl child and injustice against women but some how, the average Igbo woman appears clueless to this. It seems as if they are not even aware of the injustice being done against them

cococandy:

You guys really wanna go the tribalism route?
I could off the top of my head count a million things that women are subjected to among other tribes that igbos have since overgrown.
Instead of you guys to talk about your own tribes in line with the topic, you're busy throwing tribal shades at others.

We are not here to sugarcoat stuff. It is about the true things that used to happen in the past some of which unfortunately still happen presently but it's not a competition.

cococandy:

You guys really wanna go the tribalism route?
I could off the top of my head count a million things that women are subjected to among other tribes that igbos have since overgrown.
Instead of you guys to talk about your own tribes in line with the topic, you're busy throwing tribal shades at others.

We are not here to sugarcoat stuff. It is about the true things that used to happen in the past some of which unfortunately still happen presently but it's not a competition.

Pidgin2:


Take it easy, I didn't mean to upset anyone

Onegai:


I think Pidgin2 is Igbo. She said so once on another thread.

crackhaus:

The thread has been ruined from the beginning. Everyone seems to be typing what they think and not what they really know with 100% certainty.

No sources, no links, no references, no nothing.

oloyede252:

no you haven't. your comment was meant to be an insult and don't know what compelled you to try insult me by typing "your mama too" when the context of the discussion is ancient women.. that quote is my own summation of the plight and status of the ancient women putting into consideration different societies and cultures.

so no need to get defensive or rude dye to your lack of compression and misinterpretation.

Onegai:
Hmmm...Bendel...all this will have to come from Family history and mostly colonial era. So, SS geopolitical zone going towards the coast...

Women could inherit from their fathers but i'm not so sure about inheriting from their husbands. It seemed better to be a daughter than a wife, especially in how you were treated. Wives for example were not allowed to use the same basin or bucket to bath as their husbands.

Women did run businesses, like shops and stuff. Girls were educated upto secondary school level and were expected to continue their education after marriage at a tertiary institute of some sort. So you marry at 17 or 18, pop a baby and head to Lagos or abroad to do a course. Husband was required to pay for that education.

Widows had some horrible mourning practises to be carried out. Really horrid. Some existed to make sure wives didn't poison their husbands.

Sons were given preference but female children were very valued (there are names in my culture which translate to "girls are nice/good". Mothers were addressed by name of firstborn son however.

Physical beauty in a girlchild was prized because it was a ticket to a better social status and more economic power. Have a beautiful daughter and marry her off to a chief/king as 2nd/3rd wife, a young established man fresh off the boat from schooling in England or a civil servant. Parents would go as far as not allowing pretty daughters work on the farm (no trekking or backbreaking work for her, just housework).

Housework was for females but males did heavy work like pound yam.

New mothers were supposed to stay indoors for 3 months.

If you were at the farm and it was that time of the month, ladies, you were not supposed to come home if you had any rivers on your way home.

Pre-marital sexx was frowned on, but mix palm wine + ogogoro + sailors and sh.it happens there are people here and there who pop up with traces of foreign blood in their DNA but everyone is too polite to talk about it. Modern Nigerian society is sorta repressed.

Divorce existed but I don't know if it was prevalent. The wife usually went back to her parents and they accepted her easily if she wasn't pregnant. If she had kids, they they try and settle the couple's issues. Monogamy and Polygamy were equal. Infidelity seemed not-so-shocking amongst married men and married women (a lot of men's 2nd wives were married at some point to another man and weren't always widows).

Women didn't have direct power but they had influence. In Bini history, it went as far as even the Oba and ruling chiefs were forced to devise rules to control the King's mother. The Festac 77 mask (the most popular symbol of Benin and one of Nigeria's most popular symbols) is actully in honour of a Queen Mother.

Incline:
Yes, they're all just typing what they think. No sources to back them up.

bukatyne:
@baby124:

Thanks a lot.
Widow hood : re-marrying wasn't criminalized as it is today. So we have the custom of scraping hair too to seperate the living & the dead?... interesting

Yes we do have the custome of scraping head. But I find the widowhood rights actually one of the most liberal in the country. People were also allowed to remarry with no judgment towards them.



The dramatic weeping is also compulsory?... Did you know if they had professional mourners to hype the gloomy atmosphere?

No mourners. Dramatic weeping was compulsory o! So there is no suspicion of a hand in the death. However death in Yoruba land is a celebration of life except the deceased was very young.


@childbirth : It is the husband 's mother that does the care? I though wife's mother. Wouldn't this and other privileges of husband's mothers drive the need for male children? Things have also changed in that wives escalate issues to husband's families and vice versa.

It's Igbo's that have the culture of omugwo, where the girl's mother comes into the home. That is not Yoruba culture. As I said the mother in law is most likely not going to focus on the sex of the children. They would most likely have been more concerned about their son's having many children! Yoruba mother in laws were famous for encouraging only sons/ children to go out and multiply. They were known to accept all children their son claimed was their's. Whether within marriage or not. I have never heard of desperation for a particular sex. I could be wrong on that.


@ Marriage: the wife absolves the husband's heritage. .. can she still inherit from her father's house? Are the wives still recognized as daughter of so and so? Times have obviously changed as the couple now name their kids.

The wife can inherit from her father. That does not affect her current status. Even if she is now a member of her husband's family, she still has an origin and that is respected. But not where she would now be trying to force the beliefs in her father's house on her new family.

In my family our parents still name our kids. Though we influence their choices and choose which name to call them. . It is a way of encouraging couples to make their children marry and have kids! So they too can have the pride of naming their own.



I still see the hand work thingy in place. A typical Yoruba wife would contribute financially to the home. Spill over from times of old.

Yes, going to *ko ise* or learn a skill was a big thing for every one in Yorubaland. Even up till now.


I also believed religion demonized se.x. (not saying it's bad)

Sex is a natural thing. Though it should be done responsibly. It was not unusual for men to have concubines. My grand father had to my grand mother's horror . The concubines kids even used to come and collect money. I saw it myself. . The thing is they all know each other and are constantly in a spiritual battle against each other. . Religion has stemmed that though. Thankfully.

Onegai:
Abuse wasn't acceptable, it was called Disturbing the Peace and everyone involved would be fined for it. You could leave your husband for it too (which is why most women above the age of 70 are suprised by the "Endure" mantra of today: enduring polygamy was one thing, enduring beatings made no sense).

Not sure submission worked the same way as now. Are you supposed to tell a powerful Ifa priestess to submit I know we had gods of retribution and they were invoked to punish offenders. Reincarnation was an honorable thing and would endear a father to a daughter if she is said to be a reincarnation of a favourite female ancestress.

Trade was encouraged in women and both my grandmothers were fluent in major languages because of their businesses.

Spoke to some people and wives could own property. Infact, I was reminded that i had spent time in the property of more than one wife (nice properties) and one was an inheritance from husband. Males in the family did challenge it, of course.

Funny, but firstborn male children were not usually sent to school. They were expected to inherit the farm. My grandmother defied her husband in the early 1930s to send her younger son to school because his elder brother was being groomed to become a farmer. Nothing happened to her and it was a good decision. Girls could go to school though.

Modern marriages owes a lot to Pentecostal churches, who came with a lot of indoctrination and white-washing of the past. If you look, their leaders are well over 70 years of age so they were deliberately passing on their own version of what morality looked like to younger generations who knew nothing about their past.

I know a popular case of a Yoruba greatgrandma who got divorced. Freedom Park sits on a former popular colonial era prison and their most popular inmate was a woman who killed her husband and went on to marry the prison warden.

Onegai:
bukatyne


What happened to the inheritance a daughter got after marriage? And why couldn't they share bathing buckets?

You kept your father's inheritance till the day you die. Husbands and wives had separate buckets and it was considered taboo to share, didn't hear the proper explanation because the line wasn't clear.

There would the need for rich husbands if they were to foot the bill of the wife's tuition. Was there a wide age gap between couples?

Sometimes. But sometimes, you were married via proxy and sent via ship to join your student husband. Things didnt always work out (I know 2 cases of early divorce from there, one still causing problems till today as paternity of a child came in question and the other was a case of domestic abuse and her male relative went to bring her home.

So trophy wives didn't start today... Did they have special beauty rites? What features did they consider beautiful?

The examples I have are medium to fair skin smooth skin and a slim nose, good carriage. One of the governors of a SS state and his classmates had a fantasy of a girl, whose nickname was "Stainless". They would perambulate up and down her street to get her attention, but lost her to a man with a white volvo.

If you got pregnant outside marriage, you weren't cast out but you would be insulted as lacking good home training.

Divorce happened in the king's palace. The husband and the wife's relatives would go there to settle their case. Beating your wife was unacceptable and a proof that you had nothing better to do (a 77 year old woman just told me that men beat their wives because they had no farm and nothing to keep them productive and tired. Other women with her agreed).

So women had no group like Umuada or position like Iyalode (a female member of the King's cabinet). Could women be regents?

Umuada seems to have existed somewhat in Asaba but it meant that the first daughter had to marry someone from the same tribe.

Examples of the influences the Queen Mother had.

Check online. Lots of verifiable and published documents about Bini culture. Ika culture, the King couldn't marry from his clan so as not to concentrate power in his or her hands.

bukatyne:
@baby124:

Thanks

Re: concubines. .. Did religion really stem that? We still have concubines & wives engage in spiritual battle with one another.

Onegai:
There are female regents in Ondo state. It is the norm that when a King dies, one of his daughters takes over as Regent until the elders choose a new King from the next ruling family. The longest serving regent was 13 years in her reign, I believe Akure Kingdom (not too sure). During her reign, she moves into the palace with her children but her husband cannot stay with her. She dons male dressing (fila, agbada and beads) and staff during outings.

It's a well-known tradition practised till today. It serves to douse any tensions from immediately crowning a new Oba.

baby124:

That's true. That is the only thing I find off about the article edwife posted. There have been female Yoruba Oba's or regents. The article says women were banned from holding traditional positions which is not true. Women had a fixed position on the kings council. That is huge. They sat in meetings and helped make strategic decisions with the kings important chiefs. Though it is one position but should by no means be belittled.

Onegai:


I saw some and wondered why they were cross-dressing and being greeted well. So I went to speak to one much later and she explained all.

baby124:

That's true. That is the only thing I find off about the article edwife posted. There have been female Yoruba Oba's or regents. The article says women were banned from holding traditional positions which is not true. Women had a fixed position on the kings council. That is huge. They sat in meetings and helped make strategic decisions with the kings important chiefs. Though it is one position but should by no means be belittled.

edwife:


Nah, read well. I am not just posting off my head but from scholars and reliable sources.

In addition, women were traditionally excluded from most, but not all, traditional political offices (Afonja 1990).

baby124:

Lol. That shows you the Yoruba culture is not a rigid one. And though patrilineal it does not enable men to become tyrants or entitled to abuse the culture because of gender. Where are you from.

edwife:
In the precolonial period, women played a major role in social and economic activities. Division of labour was along gender lines, and women controlled such occupations as food processing, mat weaving, pottery making, and cooking. Moreover, land was communally owned, and women had access to it through their husbands or parents. Although a man was the head of the household in a patrilineal system, older women had control of the labour of younger family members.

Women were also central to trade. Among the Yoruba, they were the major figures in long-distance trade, with enormous opportunities for accumulating wealth and acquiring titles. The most successful among them rose to the prestigious chieftaincy title of iyalode, a position of great privilege and power.

In politics, women were not as docile or powerless as contemporary literature tends to portray them. The basic unit of political organization was the family, and in the common matrifocal arrangement, which allowed a woman to gain considerable authority over her children, a woman and her offspring could form a major bloc in the household. Power and privileges in a household were also based on age and gender, thereby allowing senior women to have a voice on many issues. Because the private and public arenas were intertwined, a woman’s ability to control resources and people in a household was at the same time an exercise in public power. She could use food production to gain respect. She could control her children and influence men through this power. She could evoke the power of the spirit or gods in her favour. Or she could simply withdraw and use the kitchen as her own personal domicile for interaction with her colleagues, friends, and children.

Beyond the household level, power was generally dominated by men, but in many areas specific titles were given to women. The queen mother, a powerful title among the Edo and Yoruba, could be bestowed upon the king’s mother or a free woman of considerable stature. In her own palace, the queen mother presided over meetings, with subordinate titleholders in her support. Yoruba and Hausa legends describe periods when women were either the actual kings or heroines. Such women as Moremi of Ile-Ife and Amina of Zaria are notable legendary figures, as are the powerful queens in the Ondo and Daura histories.