Splinz:


Oga, shove your hypocritical counsel up your arse! Just like that fool that saw only my uncouth words, who calls himself MuttleyLaff, did you also saw only Splinz "hard words and abuses"?

While that blind bat called MuttleyLaff so much need me to stay relevant, kindly advice him to stop boring me with his ignorance riddled mentions. It is for this obvious reasons that I've been ignoring his unintelligent and clownish tags. Poor thing, he has been waiting for so long to have me dignified him with a response, and now I can imagine his joy.

And yes... As for that lunatic called openmine... Anyway, I've already shown him where he belongs--mental asylum.

PS: I can easily differentiate between a learner and a scoffer who only seeks to shine the teeth. The pitiable tactic adopted by these two clowns is to throw tantrum when confronted with superior arguments, believing when mockery is employed, it somehow makes them look right, not knowing it only further portrays their follies. SMH

You spoke my mind.

blueAgent,
Please forgive me for partially derailing your thread. Wasn't intentional....
Continue on with this important topic.

this is what you get when there's no atheism to unite the theists especially Christians

they start dick measuring contest on who is interpreting the Bible the right way, who is serving god the right way, who has the holy spirit

infighting begins, little wonder we have over 3000 Christian sects all claiming to be the true Christian sect each claiming to be the true one and only

comedy central

Wow. God is not an author of confusion you say, but see how confused you lot are.
It's one freaking book. Can't you guys just agree on an interpretation?
No wonder there are a thousand and one denominations.
The Holy Spirit was meant to explain the deeper secrets of the scriptures to believers, he/she/it can't tell someone one thing and tell the other person another, from the same book and source, that's just confusing.
This is embarrassing, really.
Do you guys need another Council of Nicea to sort things out or something?

CatfishBilly:
Wow. God is not an author of confusion you say, but see how confused you lot are.
It's one freaking book. Can't you guys just agree on an interpretation?
No wonder there are a thousand and one denominations.
The Holy Spirit was meant to explain the deeper secrets of the scriptures to believers, he/she/it can't tell someone one thing and tell the other person another, from the same book and source, that's just confusing.
This is embarrassing, really.
Do you guys need another Council of Nicea to sort things out or something?

The truth is that one side does not want to listen/reason with the other individual or group out of pride or because of the fear of a better argument against what they already know....this applies to the law of moses,tithe,the divinity of God,the lifestyle or appearance of a believer!
And yes U are right,its one of the very reasons why there are many christian denominations in the world today....!
I wont lie to U there was actually some slight confusion made by paul during his ministerial times....
He gave different doctrines to different believers which is a cause of confusion right now for believers presently...
For instance,he will admonish the people of galatia,ephesians,colossians, not to observe the laws of moses calling such acts stupid and then go to the people of rome,asking them to uphold the law....same apostle but a slightly different doctrines to different churches....but i think he made an amazing admission which made me understand his reasons and intentions...

19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible. 20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law (though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law. 21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law (though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law. 22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some. 23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

@CatfishBilly,Now to the topic....The OP made a statement about why the new covenant did not abolish the ten commandments, and as expected,his statement was met wit a different point of view from others on this thread who gave the OP their argument and scriptures to back their assertion... instead of the OP to reason with a different opinion and maybe ask questions to understand their beliefs better,he(blueagent) and splinz started insulting them...even to the extent of calling them unprintable names...Is that how to defend Ur beliefs?


I actually asked a question giving scriptures to that effect and both attacked me with jabs as if the question was threatening their current belief system....

If only people will understand that scriptures can be subject to different interpretations but the important thing is to understand each other and if possible get the point the person is trying to make....then own up when U have a better argument rather than insulting and throwing jabs

openmine:

The truth is that one side does not want to listen/reason with the other individual or group out of pride or because of the fear of a better argument against what they already know....this applies to the law of moses, tithe, the divinity of God, the lifestyle or appearance of a believer!

And yes U are right, its one of the very reasons why there are many christian denominations in the world today....!

I wont lie to U there was actually some slight confusion made by paul during his ministerial times....
He gave different doctrines to different believers which is a cause of confusion right now for believers presently...
For instance, he will admonish the people of galatia, ephesians, colossians, not to observe the laws of moses calling such acts stupid and then go to the people of rome, asking them to uphold the law....same apostle but a slightly different doctrines to different churches....
but i think he made an amazing admission which made me understand his reasons and intentions...

19 Though I am free and belong to no one, I have made myself a slave to everyone, to win as many as possible.
20 To the Jews I became like a Jew, to win the Jews. To those under the law I became like one under the law
(though I myself am not under the law), so as to win those under the law.
21 To those not having the law I became like one not having the law
(though I am not free from God’s law but am under Christ’s law), so as to win those not having the law.
22 To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all people so that by all possible means I might save some.
23 I do all this for the sake of the gospel, that I may share in its blessings.

Paul has always being true to the gospel and his calling

What you perceive to be ''some slight confusion made by Paul'' actually is what's known as the ''There's more than one way to skin a cat'' method
Moreover, no one skins a fish before it is caught and reeled in to boat or fish-net
That in two sentences are the reason behind Paul's methodology or style

And for the sake of those wondering over above italic quote
It is from 1 Corinthians 9:19-23

²⁰When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews to Christ.
When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law.
Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring to Christ those who are under the law.
²¹When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law, I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ.
But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ
- 1 Corinthians 9:20-21

1 Corinthians 9:20-21 above was put out twice on page 7 of this thread, but it obviously went over heads

All fingers are not same in length of understanding, but when they bend, all stand equal
The truth is believers' life becomes very easy when we bend and adjust to each other's current level of understanding

Everyone from Goshen360, GodsMopol, ayoku777, petra1, Ubenedictus, openmine including moi, who empathised with OP and bent
did not have their bending posture reciprocated
What they got in return was disdain, pontification and reading dogmatic & embarrassing long posts

openmine:
@CatfishBilly,Now to the topic....The OP made a statement about why the new covenant did not abolish the ten commandments, and as expected, his statement was met wit a different point of view from others on this thread who gave the OP their argument and scriptures to back their assertion... instead of the OP to reason with a different opinion and maybe ask questions to understand their beliefs better, he (blueagent) and splinz started insulting them...even to the extent of calling them unprintable names...
Is that how to defend Ur beliefs?

I actually asked a question giving scriptures to that effect and both attacked me with jabs as if the question was threatening their current belief system....

If only people will understand that scriptures can be subject to different interpretations but the important thing is to understand each other
and if possible get the point the person is trying to make....then own up when U have a better argument rather than insulting and throwing jabs

Instead of insulting and throwing jabs, simply asking WHO abolished the Ten Commandments
Simply asking HOW were the Ten Commandments abolished
Simply asking WHEN were the Ten Commandments abolished
Simply asking WHY were the Ten Commandments abolished
Simply asking WHERE were the Ten Commandments abolished
Simply asking WHAT happened to the Ten Commandments abolished
Simply asking WERE the Ten Commandments reintroduced after their abolition

Simply entertaining and asking basic information gathering questions, like those above would have gone a long way in solving OP's question

MuttleyLaff:
Paul has always being true to the gospel and his calling

What you perceive to be ''some slight confusion made by Paul'' actually is what's known as the ''There's more than one way to skin a cat'' method
Moreover, no one skins a fish before it is caught and reeled in to boat or fish-net
That in two sentences are the reason behind Paul's methodology or style

And for the sake of those wondering over above italic quote
It is from 1 Corinthians 9:19-23

²⁰When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews to Christ.
When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law.
Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring to Christ those who are under the law.
²¹When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law, I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ.
But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ
- 1 Corinthians 9:20-21

1 Corinthians 9:20-21 above was put out twice on page 7 of this thread, but it obviously went over heads

All fingers are not same in length of understanding, but when they bend, all stand equal
The truth is believers' life becomes very easy when we bend and adjust to each other's current level of understanding

Everyone from Goshen360, GodsMopol, ayoku777, petra1, Ubenedictus, openmine including moi, who empathised with OP and bent
did not have their bending posture reciprocated
What they got in return was disdain, pontification and reading dogmatic & embarrassing long posts

True but we must admit just like peter did that Paul's teachings were very hard to comprehend....
If not for 1 Corinthians 9:20-21,i would have concluded that Paul actually had an ulterior motive...

MuttleyLaff:
Paul has always being true to the gospel and his calling

What you perceive to be ''some slight confusion made by Paul'' actually is what's known as the ''There's more than one way to skin a cat'' method
Moreover, no one skins a fish before it is caught and reeled in to boat or fish-net
That in two sentences are the reason behind Paul's methodology or style

And for the sake of those wondering over above italic quote
It is from 1 Corinthians 9:19-23

²⁰When I was with the Jews, I lived like a Jew to bring the Jews to Christ.
When I was with those who follow the Jewish law, I too lived under that law.
Even though I am not subject to the law, I did this so I could bring to Christ those who are under the law.
²¹When I am with the Gentiles who do not follow the Jewish law, I too live apart from that law so I can bring them to Christ.
But I do not ignore the law of God; I obey the law of Christ
- 1 Corinthians 9:20-21

1 Corinthians 9:20-21 above was put out twice on page 7 of this thread, but it obviously went over heads

All fingers are not same in length of understanding, but when they bend, all stand equal
The truth is believers' life becomes very easy when we bend and adjust to each other's current level of understanding

Everyone from Goshen360, GodsMopol, ayoku777, petra1, Ubenedictus, openmine including moi, who empathised with OP and bent
did not have their bending posture reciprocated
What they got in return was disdain, pontification and reading dogmatic & embarrassing long posts

Bro, you really said it all, I just happen to always forget to unfollow this tread. By the way, if I argue with the Op, it might lead to some form of upset or so, so I kept quite, I have been seeing this tread on my followed topic and I can't really remember when last I view the comment here, it never occurred to me to ask, what are they really talking about here self.

The funny part is, there are better tread on NL-Religion section, that does not have a next page for them, and here is a tread, having so many pages, many as 11, am not saying we shouldn't reason, but 11 pages, when we are not in the era of Acts 19:8-9a days, where Paul was frustrated, I guess I was frustrated and I went to Tryanus, a place where there are good soil.

openmine:


The truth is that one side does not want to listen/reason with the other individual or group out of pride or because of the fear of a better argument against what they already know....this applies to the law of moses,tithe,the divinity of God,the lifestyle or appearance of a believer!
And yes U are right,its one of the very reasons why there are many christian denominations in the world today....!
I wont lie to U there was actually some slight confusion made by paul during his ministerial times....
He gave different doctrines to different believers which is a cause of confusion right now for believers presently...
For instance,he will admonish the people of galatia,ephesians,colossians, not to observe the laws of moses calling such acts stupid and then go to the people of rome,asking them to uphold the law....same apostle but a slightly different doctrines to different churches....but i think he made an amazing admission which made me understand his reasons and intentions...

That is because it was not Paul that wrote all the Pauline epistles.

CatfishBilly:
Wow. God is not an author of confusion you say, but see how confused you lot are.
It's one freaking book. Can't you guys just agree on an interpretation?
No wonder there are a thousand and one denominations.
The Holy Spirit was meant to explain the deeper secrets of the scriptures to believers, he/she/it can't tell someone one thing and tell the other person another, from the same book and source, that's just confusing.
This is embarrassing, really.
Do you guys need another Council of Nicea to sort things out or something?

they need that council

openmine:
@CatfishBilly,Now to the topic....The OP made a statement about why the new covenant did not abolish the ten commandments, and as expected,his statement was met wit a different point of view from others on this thread who gave the OP their argument and scriptures to back their assertion... instead of the OP to reason with a different opinion and maybe ask questions to understand their beliefs better,he(blueagent) and splinz started insulting them...even to the extent of calling them unprintable names...Is that how to defend Ur beliefs?


I actually asked a question giving scriptures to that effect and both attacked me with jabs as if the question was threatening their current belief system....

If only people will understand that scriptures can be subject to different interpretations but the important thing is to understand each other and if possible get the point the person is trying to make....then own up when U have a better argument rather than insulting and throwing jabs

Lair. can you show me were i insulted you.

MuttleyLaff:
But whoso looketh into the perfect law of liberty, and continueth therein,
he being not a forgetful hearer, but a doer of the work, this man shall be blessed in his deed
- James 1:25

So be speaking and acting as a person who is going to be judged by The Law of Liberty
- James 2:12

It is true that God's Ten Laws, which are part of the Mosaic laws were written on stone

However for any that care to know, each of the Ten Commandments were scrapped,
only for Jesus, leaving no room for confusion or doubt, to explicitly re-introduce each and everyone of them except for the fourth commandment

In James 1:25 and James 2:12 above, we are made aware of the law of liberty
and advised to speak and act like one who is going to be referred to it when being judged.

I have warned you to stop misinterpreting Bible verses you don't know anything about before you carry curse.

The same Jesus you claim abolished the law and removed only the 4th commandment.said " For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" Matthew 5:18

Jesus is saying not even a T or dot how much more a whole law will be removed from the 10commandments.

Which part of the statement you don't understand? or are you calling Jesus a lair?

petra1:



You started it na. They caught the fire later. Truth can not be communicated by strife. But humility .


2 Timothy 2:24-25
24 And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all men, apt to teach, patient, 25 In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth;

I guess you have not read this Bible verse.

Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like unto him.

CatfishBilly:
Wow. God is not an author of confusion you say, but see how confused you lot are.
It's one freaking book. Can't you guys just agree on an interpretation?
No wonder there are a thousand and one denominations.
The Holy Spirit was meant to explain the deeper secrets of the scriptures to believers, he/she/it can't tell someone one thing and tell the other person another, from the same book and source, that's just confusing.
This is embarrassing, really.
Do you guys need another Council of Nicea to sort things out or something?

this one got me laughing hard

blueAgent:



I beg you in the name of God please click and read with an open mind.

www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/hail_mary_hail_satan.htm

I have read those things b4, i am suprised you spread such nonesense and distortions.

i can only pray God opens ur mind beyond inherent bais, prejudice and false indoctrination.

CatfishBilly:
Wow. God is not an author of confusion you say, but see how confused you lot are.
It's one freaking book. Can't you guys just agree on an interpretation?
No wonder there are a thousand and one denominations.
The Holy Spirit was meant to explain the deeper secrets of the scriptures to believers, he/she/it can't tell someone one thing and tell the other person another, from the same book and source, that's just confusing.
This is embarrassing, really.
Do you guys need another Council of Nicea to sort things out or something?

There has been 20 major councils since nicea and in all of them dissenters were anathemised. xtians has a habit of not understanding each other.

Ubenedictus:
I have read those things b4, i am suprised you spread such nonesense and distortions.

i can only pray God opens ur mind beyond inherent bais, prejudice and false indoctrination.

I don't agree with everything the writer and his site says but most things he said are things which your Church is into and they contradict the Bible.

blueAgent:



I don't agree with everything the writer and his site says but most things he said are things which your Church is into and they contradict the Bible.

I know you think the site is correct, that is the problem, u were taught an iconoclast theology so i understand your phobia for images, it is a pity that there are sites like this that encourage and feed ur phobia and hid under wrong bible interpretation. it is a pity.

It is useless to engage u unless u are willing to learn, u wont be open for it.
Proverbs 17:27 - He that hath knowledge spareth his words: [and] a man of
understanding is of an excellent spirit.
2 Timothy 2:16 - But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. Psalms 141:3 - 127:4 - Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips.

I wish you a blessed weekend.

blueAgent:

I have warned you to stop misinterpreting Bible verses you don't know anything about before you carry curse.

The same Jesus you claim abolished the law and removed only the 4th commandment.said " For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled" Matthew 5:18

Jesus is saying not even a T or dot how much more a whole law will be removed from the 10commandments.

Which part of the statement you don't understand? or are you calling Jesus a lair?

Don't be surprise about the attacks on that particular law—4th commandment. I tell you, it is no surprise at all.

I mean, this law is just too important on so many fronts for Satan to ignore! Aside the fact that it SIGNIFIES/IDENTIFIES God's true people (Exodus 31:17, Ezekiel 20:12), it also serves as a “test command” that God use to test those that will obey Him (Exodus 16:4). Yes, it identifies those that are obedient to God! Don't forget the truth in Romans 6:16: “Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?”.

Also remember that this is the first of God's spiritual laws, created right at the very beginning of man (Genesis 2:3). Note, God didn't just create the Sabbath, He “blessed the seventh day and made it holy”. So then, the Sabbath day is not just like any other day, it is a day specially ordained for holy uses, and also a LAW! It is of no wonder then that Jesus said He is “Lord of the Sabbath” (Matthew 12:8 ). Indeed, as the creator of the Sabbath (John 1:1-3, 14), Jesus rules and presides over this holy day/time, for He is equally holy! (Psalm 99:3,5,9). This is a day sanctified—set apart by divine fiat, and no human can change it, for like the foundation of the earth, it stand fast forever!

So bro, have you seen the enormous importance of this law, and why Satan so much hate and attack it most? Satan, through his ministers (2 Corinthians 11:13-15), has successfully deceived the whole world (Rev. 12:9) by changing the Sabbath law to Sunday, the first day of the week. And yes, some people are even ridiculously claiming that after the whole Law was abolished, it was re-introduced but the Sabbath law didn't make the list. From the above, this humorous claim shouldn't surprise anyone.

PS: “There remains therefore a keeping of the Sabbath for the people of God.” (Hebrews 4:9).

blueAgent:





Lair. can you show me were i insulted you.

and he has started again....pls dont start what U cant finish Okay?
Am not like others,and am in a good mood...so watch it "colored-agent"
....i believe U can read....do well to check our interactions and mentions and tell me if that wasnt an insult....like i said,i believe and hope U can read?

Ubenedictus:
I know you think the site is correct, that is the problem, u were taught an iconoclast theology so i understand your phobia for images, it is a pity that there are sites like this that encourage and feed ur phobia and hid under wrong bible interpretation. it is a pity.

It is useless to engage u unless u are willing to learn, u wont be open for it.
Proverbs 17:27 - He that hath knowledge spareth his words: [and] a man of
understanding is of an excellent spirit.
2 Timothy 2:16 - But shun profane [and] vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. Psalms 141:3 - 127:4 - Set a watch, O LORD, before my mouth; keep the door of my lips.

I wish you a blessed weekend.

It is funny how you use the Bible to defend yourself while ingnoring the unbibical pratices of your Church

blueAgent:


I guess you have not read this Bible verse.

Proverbs 26:4
Answer not a fool according to his folly, lest you also be like unto him.

What makes you think so.? Well ,You guessed wrong .

GodsMopol:
Bro, you really said it all, I just happen to always forget to unfollow this tread. By the way, if I argue with the Op, it might lead to some form of upset or so, so I kept quite, I have been seeing this tread on my followed topic and I can't really remember when last I view the comment here, it never occurred to me to ask, what are they really talking about here self.

The funny part is, there are better tread on NL-Religion section, that does not have a next page for them, and here is a tread, having so many pages, many as 11, am not saying we shouldn't reason, but 11 pages, when we are not in the era of Acts 19:8-9a days, where Paul was frustrated, I guess I was frustrated and I went to Tryanus, a place where there are good soil.

I like your Acts 19:8-9a case in point, you certainly have a great sense of humour

As for me, for every deceptive, exaggerated and meaningless talk on the sabbath, God has given me the grace and power to equal exchange and give all that's necessary back in return, like for like, measure for measure.

So till blueAgent, Splinz, MZLady39 and any others get their facts right, I am 24/7, on hand, to run their dogmatism and bigotry into the ground

blueAgent:
I have warned you to stop misinterpreting Bible verses you don't know anything about before you carry curse

SMH, you will use all available tricks to shove your twisted truth down peoples' throats
and next one in line is to resort to subtle bullying laced with idle threat(s), yeah

You can huff and puff about curses all you like
But just be careful brother, as the truth & fact remains that, you're simply, clearly and really barking up the wrong tree
Conceit is self-given, and here you are getting puffed up with it
Again be careful before you start getting intoxicated by self-conceit

I like your general and overall fervour but still conceit spoils the finest genius.
Bottom line is that conceit is incompatible with understanding

blueAgent:
The same Jesus you claim abolished the law and removed only the 4th commandment.said
" For verily I say unto you,
Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"
- Matthew 5:18

SMH, why am I not shocked, that you've woefully failed to interpret and understand Matthew 5:18 correctly

blueAgent:
Jesus is saying not even a T or dot how much more a whole law will be removed from the 10 commandments

Tbh, I think you should sit down and look that word ''till'' in Matthew 5:18 up in the dictionary.
Go on, go ahead, go check up the meaning of ''till''

blueAgent:
Which part of the statement you don't understand?
or are you calling Jesus a lair?

You've all this while being believing the wrong explanation of Matthew 5:17-18

Anyway, now that you've looked up the meaning of ''till'' (i.e. as used in Matthew 5:18) in the dictionary, have you now got a clearer understanding of Matthew 5:18?
Or are you going to call Jesus a liar, saying He hasnt fulfilled the law or all the prophets said about Him?
Answer this question please blueAgent:
Did Jesus fulfil the law and/or all the prophets said about Him?
Did Jesus carry out His duty and role as required, promised or expected by the law and by what all the prophets said about Him?

I think you've probably got it by now, so then I rest my case.

blueAgent:
I have warned you to stop misinterpreting Bible verses you don't know anything about before you carry curse.
The same Jesus you claim abolished the law and removed only the 4th commandment said
" For verily I say unto you,
Till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled"
Matthew 5:18
Jesus is saying not even a T or dot how much more a whole law will be removed from the 10commandments.

Which part of the statement you don't understand? or are you calling Jesus a lair?

Splinz:
Don't be surprise about the attacks on that particular law—4th commandment. I tell you, it is no surprise at all

You really have got hold of the wrong end of stick
What a shame, and you profess to be a teacher of the word

Splinz:
I mean, this law is just too important on so many fronts for Satan to ignore!
Aside the fact that it SIGNIFIES/IDENTIFIES God's true people (Exodus 31:17, Ezekiel 20:12), it also serves as a “test command” that God use to test those that will obey Him (Exodus 16:4). Yes, it identifies those that are obedient to God! Don't forget the truth in Romans 6:16: “Do you not know that if you yield yourselves to any one as obedient slaves, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin, which leads to death, or of obedience, which leads to righteousness?”.

Also remember that this is the first of God's spiritual laws, created right at the very beginning of man (Genesis 2:3). Note, God didn't just create the Sabbath, He “blessed the seventh day and made it holy”. So then, the Sabbath day is not just like any other day, it is a day specially ordained for holy uses, and also a LAW! It is of no wonder then that Jesus said He is “Lord of the Sabbath” (Matthew 12:8 ). Indeed, as the creator of the Sabbath (John 1:1-3, 14), Jesus rules and presides over this holy day/time, for He is equally holy! (Psalm 99:3,5,9). This is a day sanctified—set apart by divine fiat, and no human can change it, for like the foundation of the earth, it stand fast forever!

So bro, have you seen the enormous importance of this law, and why Satan so much hate and attack it most? Satan, through his ministers (2 Corinthians 11:13-15), has successfully deceived the whole world (Rev. 12:9) by changing the Sabbath law to Sunday, the first day of the week. And yes, some people are even ridiculously claiming that after the whole Law was abolished, it was re-introduced but the Sabbath law didn't make the list. From the above, this humorous claim shouldn't surprise anyone

Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy unto you:
every one that defileth it shall surely be put to death:
for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.
- Exodus 31:14

For six days, work is to be done, but the seventh day shall be your holy day, a day of sabbath rest to the LORD.
Whoever does any work on it is to be put to death
- Exodus 35:2

³²Now while the sons of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering wood on the sabbath day.
³³Those who found him gathering wood brought him to Moses and Aaron and to all the congregation;
³⁴and they put him in custody because it had not been declared what should be done to him.
³⁵Then the LORD said to Moses,
“The man shall surely be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him with stones outside the camp.”
³⁶So all the congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death with stones, just as the LORD had commanded Moses.
- Numbers 15:32-36

I whistled at your willingness to take bold risks by referencing Exodus 16:4, Ezekiel 20:12 and Exodus 31:17 as evidences for a believer to keep the sabbath
Are you being covetous or being deceived? Which one is it?

All I see you post up there is a poor and overworked attempt at rhetorics
There is no difference between you Splinz, an observer of Saturday as sabbath and any other person who is an observer of Sunday as a sabbath
so pack in the protracted and bitter sanctimonious posts about Sabbath being Saturday or being moved to Sunday

Has it not occurred to you, that if the sabbath was dear to the heart of the Lord of the sabbath (i.e. the Owner of the Sabbath)
then Jesus, the Creator of the Sabbath, would have explicitly commanded to keep the sabbath

You, splinz & blueAgent OP, should show some gratitude and be thankful to God that the 4th commandment,
as a law was not re-introduced and brought back into effect again
else we would be having Exodus 31:14, Exodus 35:2 and Numbers 15:32-36 re-enacted and death penalties needing to be carried out

SMH. Though you come out like a loud-mouthed and opinionated bigot I really do feel for you bro
It's when few small-minded bigots try screaming out the loudest with ill-informed opinions deposited in unwarranted long posts that the good image of the gospel is destroyed and/or ridiculed by scoffers, mockers or the hopefulLandlord and catfishBilly of this world

blueAgent:




It is funny how you use the Bible to defend yourself while ingnoring the unbibical pratices of your Church

and i understand that you are trying to hide away from the topic by changing the discussion, oya finish ur mosaic law discussion then open a thread on the new thing u want us to discuss. I may even participate in such discussion if i think u are ready to listen.

I just remember this passage..
My dear brothers and sisters, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, Jam 1:19

As u guys discuss pls remember.
Proverbs 15:1 - A soft answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.

Proverbs 16:21 - The wise in heart shall be called prudent: and the sweetness of the lips increaseth learning.

This is getting ridiculous now.

I mean you guys cannot agree on one issue using the same Bible. Shouldn't that tell you something about the Bible? Perhaps as someone as already pointed out, you guys need another Ecumenical Council.

The first thing one must accept is that the Bible is not as harmonious as we have been taught. The Bible is a collection of different texts by different authors --sometimes schools of authors-- with sometimes polar intentions and motivations. A good example is the author of Ruth as compared to the xenophobe that is Ezra. In fact, the author of Ruth seem not to be aware of the commandment to ban Moabites from the assembly of the Israelite (Deut. 23:3). The same commandment that Ezra then used as an excuse to ban foreigners, even the ones that have married a Jew.

Now to the topic at hand.

I believe that Matthew represents the historical Jesus best. As far as Matthew was concerned, Jesus was the perfect Jew because he came to fulfill, i.e obey to the fullest, the requirements of the Law not just in the face-value interpretation that was common among the religious elites of the day but in a deeper heart based level of obedience.

According to Mark and Matthew, Jesus did not come to abrogate the Law, but to obey perfectly and teach others to do likewise. Which brings us to the interpretation of Matt. 5:17-18

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

From the get go, Jesus clearly says he did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. That pretty much answers our question. But looking further, did Jesus establish another covenant in this passage? No. Did Jesus directly establish another covenant in any other passage? No.
Did Jesus promise another covenant will come that will do away with the Law, perhaps after he has been crucified? I do not know of any such passage.

So what then is the cause of all this confusion? The answer is due to the influence of Paul the Apostle, and Luke his protege and many others. It is this people that directed the course of Christianity, which was just a sect in Judaism at that time, into what we have today. I will get back to this latter.

Here, I would like to quote Thom Stark:

When Jesus said that he came to “fulfill” the law, he meant that he came to be perfectly obedient to it, and not just in spirit (as Christians are wont to argue), but, expressly, to the very letter, to the least “jot and tittle.” Moreover, his disciples are to do the same, and teach others to do the same. This will be the case “until everything is accomplished.” What does this mean? Ever since Jesus did not come back after the temple was destroyed in 70 CE, Christians have argued that “until everything is accomplished” refers to the death of and resurrection of Jesus. It is at that point, Christians claim, that the law passes into obsolescence. But that is not what this phrase means. “Until everything is accomplished” refers to the coming of the Son of Man to vindicate Israel after the temple’s destruction, and to usher in the new age of everlasting peace and justice[...]. This is clear enough already in verse 18: “until heaven and earth pass away.” The Law of Moses is to be obeyed to the letter, until the end of the world. That’s when “everything is accomplished.” [...]
Let’s not conflate John’s theology with Matthew’s. It is in the Gospel of John that Jesus says from the cross, “It is finished.” John’s Gospel was written very late, and was a move away from the apocalyptic-ism of the Synoptic gospels. In Matthew’s gospel, the crucifixion is not presented as the “fulfillment.” Matthew ends with a promise of Jesus to his disciples that they had a task to complete (the evangelization of the world), and that he would be with them “until the end of the age.” When would that be? Mat-thew 16:28 and 24:34 make it clear that the end of the age would come within the lifetime of his disciples.

More to follow soon...

alchemist13:
This is getting ridiculous now.

I mean you guys cannot agree on one issue using the same Bible.
Shouldn't that tell you something about the Bible?
Perhaps as someone as already pointed out, you guys need another Ecumenical Council

When the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into the full truth.
He won't speak on his own. He will speak what he hears and will tell you about things to come.
- John 16:13

We are of God:
he that knoweth God heareth us;
he that is not of God heareth not us.
Hereby know we the spirit of truth, and the spirit of error.
- 1 John 4:6 KJV

Now God has revealed these things to us by the Spirit,
for the Spirit searches everything, even the depths of God
- 1 Corinthians 2:10

It would seem from the above verses, that an ecumenism, without the Spirit of Truth prevailing, is dead on arrival

alchemist13:
The first thing one must accept is that the Bible is not as harmonious as we have been taught. The Bible is a collection of different texts by different authors --sometimes schools of authors-- with sometimes polar intentions and motivations

The Bible's collection of different texts by different authors --sometimes schools of authors-- with sometimes polar intentions and motivations, compliments each other and make it the complete, ''the good, the bad and the ugly'' perfect book anyone would want to read and learn from

alchemist13:
A good example is the author of Ruth as compared to the xenophobe that is Ezra.
In fact, the author of Ruth seem not to be aware of the commandment to ban Moabites from the assembly of the Israelite (Deut. 23:3).
The same commandment that Ezra then used as an excuse to ban foreigners, even the ones that have married a Jew

Reading between the lines, from Ruth's first marriage, to being a widow rejected for another marriage and later marrying again for the second time showcases faith, love and grace

Now what you'll see is an antithesis (i.e. the spirit of the law versus the letter of the law in play) when you juxtapose Deut. 23:3
(i.e. the Moabite Ruth marriage to one Israelite, after widowed her hand in marriage rejected by another, before marriage again to a second Israelite)
with Ezra 9:1-4 and Ezra10:1-4
(i.e. Israelites feeling guilty over their intermarriages)

The spirit of the law, is doing what is right regardless of what you are told to do
whilst the letter of the law, is doing what you are told to do regardless of what is right

Whenever the spirit of the law is obeyed rather than the letter, then any found in such circumstances,
is doing what the author of the law wouldn't mind, because, the spirit, any day, is always above the letter of law

Did you notice that the Israelite man who rejected the widowed Mobiate Ruth's hand in marriage on the basis of the letter of the law
(i.e. refused to sin by consenting to a forbidden marriage) is unnamed or nameless
whereas Boaz who married the widowed Mobiate Ruth, on the basis of the spirit of the law,
has his name preserved, made famous and including appearing in the genealogies of Jesus Christ

alchemist13:
Now to the topic at hand.

I believe that Matthew represents the historical Jesus best. As far as Matthew was concerned, Jesus was the perfect Jew because he came to fulfill, i.e obey to the fullest, the requirements of the Law not just in the face-value interpretation that was common among the religious elites of the day but in a deeper heart based level of obedience.

According to Mark and Matthew, Jesus did not come to abrogate the Law, but to obey perfectly and teach others to do likewise. Which brings us to the interpretation of Matt. 5:17-18

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.
18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished

And since ALL, has since being accomplished and fulfilled by Jesus, it paved way, for where applicable, the smallest letter or the least stroke of a pen, to disappear from the Law

FYI, Jesus explicitly taught a gamut of things but never for once did He, the Lord of the Sabbath, (i.e. the Owner of the Sabbath) ever teach anybody about keeping the 4th commandment (i.e. Jesus never privately or publicly taught anyone, to keep the sabbath)

alchemist13:
From the get go, Jesus clearly says he did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets.
That pretty much answers our question

Why are you expecting Jesus to put the cart before the horse?
Things are done in the proper order or procedure of doing things and not in a reverse order like you are suggesting

Dont you think, if He first abolished the Law/discounted the Prophets, He will be able to fulfil & accomplish what the the Law says or all the Prophets prophesied about Him?

alchemist13:
But looking further, did Jesus establish another covenant in this passage? No.
Did Jesus directly establish another covenant in any other passage? No.
Did Jesus promise another covenant will come that will do away with the Law, perhaps after he has been crucified?
I do not know of any such passage

This is my blood of the new covenant, which is shed in exchange for the many, for the release of sins.
- Matthew 26:28 Berean Study Bible

In the same way, after supper He took the cup, saying,
"This cup is the new covenant in My blood, which is poured out for you
- Luke 22:20 Berean Study Bible

But in fact the ministry Jesus has received is as superior to theirs,
as the covenant of which he is mediator is superior to the old one,
since the new covenant is established on better promises.
- Hebrews 8:6

In that he saith,
A new covenant, he hath made the first old.
Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away
- Hebrews 8:13 KJV

And He has qualified us as ministers of a new covenant,
not of the letter but of the Spirit;
for the letter kills, but the Spirit gives life
- 2 Corinthians 3:6

alchemist13:
So what then is the cause of all this confusion?
The answer is due to the influence of Paul the Apostle, and Luke his protege and many others.
It is this people that directed the course of Christianity, which was just a sect in Judaism at that time, into what we have today

There is no confusion.
God is not an Author of confusion
Paul the Apostle, and Luke his protege and many others are not purveyors of confusion either

alchemist13:
I will get back to this latter

Bring it on

alchemist13:

According to Mark and Matthew, Jesus did not come to abrogate the Law, but to obey perfectly and teach others to do likewise. Which brings us to the interpretation of Matt. 5:17-18

17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly I tell you, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished.

Bro, it is so unfortunate that some people don't understand the import of Matthew 5:17-18. For goodness sake, it is not rocket science to understand! It says “...until heaven and earth disappear [i.e, forever, since the earth is established forever (Ecclesiastes 1:4, Psalm 104:5, 119:90]” that absolutely, nothing will be done away from the Law until all of them are kept. In other word, the Law must be kept forever. Plain! Christ kept all the Law perfectly, and left us an example to follow His steps (1 Peter 2:21).

Psalm 119:151 states “Yet you are near, LORD, and all your commands are true.” And, “All your words are true; all your righteous laws are eternal” (Psalm 119:160). Paul wrote “So then, the law is holy, and the commandment is holy, righteous and good” (Romans 7:12). As Christians, are we not to pursue holiness, righteousness and goodness, which is exactly what the Law stands for?

From the get go, Jesus clearly says he did not come to abolish the Law or the Prophets. That pretty much answers our question. But looking further, did Jesus establish another covenant in this passage? No. Did Jesus directly establish another covenant in any other passage? No.
Did Jesus promise another covenant will come that will do away with the Law, perhaps after he has been crucified? I do not know of any such passage.

You're right, there's no such passage—a passage stating that the Law has been abolished. Obviously, what is forever can't be done away.

The commandment haters (Romans 8:7) normally quote Hebrews 8, especially verses 7 & 13 to show that the covenant abolished there is the Ten commandment. Is this so? Of course no, it is simply a case of quoting Scriptures out of context, as we will see. But before then, the reader should notice verse 10 of this same chapter: “For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people.” So the question is: What “laws” will God put into our minds and write in our hearts? And yes, before someone ridiculously claim that it is the “law of liberty” [I wonder which law is the one of bondage, since it is written that “...His commandments are not burdensome” 1 John 5:3] or it is the “law of love”, a new commandment (John 13:34), let such a person first of all tell us which law is that of bondage and what is love according to God.

Now to Hebrews 8. To understand what is being related in this passage, particularly verses 6, 7, & 13, one simply have to read from verse 1! From verse 1 down, it is crystal clear that the covenant found “faulty, decayed, waxeth old and vanished away” is none other than the covenant or law establishing the Old Covenant Priesthood. Yes, the priesthood was an institution on its own. This covenant was certainly faulty because it was administered by sinful men and also laborious. The priest has to offer burnt sacrifices first for his sins before that of the people, so the process was certainly burdensome! But with Christ as our Eternal High Priest, “A minister of the sanctuary, and of the true tabernacle, which the Lord pitched, and not man”... “...after he had offered one sacrifice for sins for ever, sat down on the right hand of God” (Hebrews 10:12). In fact, Hebrews 9 & 10 consolidates Hebrews 8, even 7. They all speaks of the Old covenant priesthood and that of the New, showing that the latter is better.

In all of these chapters, no passage is even remotely suggesting that the Ten Commandments called “holy, righteous and good” has been abolished!

So what then is the cause of all this confusion? The answer is due to the influence of Paul the Apostle, and Luke his protege and many others. It is this people that directed the course of Christianity, which was just a sect in Judaism at that time, into what we have today. I will get back to this latter.

Apostle Peter said it all. He said this of Paul, that “He writes the same way in all his letters, speaking in them of these matters. His letters contain some things that are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the other Scriptures, to their own destruction” (2 Peter 3:16). Bro, this is the truth, and not that there's any confusion. The ignorant and unstable people distort/twist what Paul wrote, to their own destruction!

Please lets hear more of your contributions to this topic.