Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? - Religion (2) - Nairaland
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Extreme Wife's Submission To Her Husband According To The New Covenant. / Mary Is The Ark Of The New Covenant / Grace Is Our Teacher, Not The Ten Commandments - Olamide Obire (2) (3) (4)
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| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Goshen360(m): 7:23pm On Feb 10, 2017 |
I need to open scriptures and show you people things but I'm at work and trying to explain things as quickly as I can to you guys. You guys leave your comments and I'll attend them all later. |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Splinz(m): 7:48pm On Feb 10, 2017 |
Goshen360: These are the kind of stunts you pull when you're discussing with kids. Your lame wriggling of words bears a semblance of the warning apostle Paul gave in Ephesians 5:6; "Let no one deceive you with empty words...". Bro, I am not here to learn verbs or nouns, for if I had wanted to learn them, I have my English textbooks with me. So, if we must converse, let us learn of the Scriptures in its simplest and purest form, not playing around with words. PS: I can't remember cracking jokes here. So do well to comport yourself by refraining from shining your teeth. Else, I may simply conclude that you're a jester. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Goshen360(m): 10:06pm On Feb 10, 2017 |
Splinz: It's okay to laugh but not that we're cracking jokes. That's fine! 2. You see the problem is, you and the likes want to quote scriptures religiously but I'm expounding scriptures to you. Whatever I say here is subject to biblical STUDY MATERIALS. That's what you don't want to admit but I'm not going to waste time with you if we're not going to reason together and learn like we should. I sit here telling you, a single word such as SIN can mean AND DO MEAN TWO DIFFERENT THINGS and you wanna sit and argue INSTEAD OF YOU PICK A CONCORDANCE which tells you how words are used so you don't be reading INTO the scriptures all your life thinking you're taught right. Anyway, I'll do justice to this topic later when I get on my computer. Ok. 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by ayoku777(m): 10:09pm On Feb 10, 2017 |
Take some time to read this to the end. I wrote this on another thread but I decided to paste it here to help bring this conflict between the Law and the Spirit to perspective. https://www.nairaland.com/2775627/purpose-law THE PURPOSE OF THE LAW Shalom 1 Like |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Splinz(m): 10:28pm On Feb 10, 2017 |
Goshen360: I know when and how to use a CONCORDANCE. And so you know, the concordance does not carry equal authority like the revealed word- the Bible. The Bible definition of SIN is found in 1 John 3:4, and this definition is overarching. So, please kindly note that no other definition is acceptable by me. |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Goshen360(m): 11:04pm On Feb 10, 2017 |
Splinz: The Holy Spirit works through your MIND to understand what's written and what's written has to be STUDIED to be understood. You continue to read into the scriptures thinking it's the revealed word. Revealed word is a product of STUDY PLUS SPIRIT OF GOD. 2. You keep saying 1 John 3:4 defined sin BUT: a, what of Romans 14 v 23 b, Romans 4 v 15 and 5 v 13.....what happens when you don't have a given law? Will it still be said you sinned and where there's no law, what guides you? 1 Like |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Splinz(m): 12:39am On Feb 11, 2017 |
Goshen360: Whatever spirit told you that God's "holy, righteous and good" LAW is done away is certainly not of God. The Holy Spirit teaches the truth not errors. Yes! The law brings wrath, but these wraths are poured out on children of disobedience! It is commonsense that if you commit a crime and you're caught, you must face the wrath of the law! If the world so have rules and standards, how much more God  Indeed, sin is not counted where there is no law! And it goes on to established the validity of the law right from the beginning, for if the law wasn't active and binding for all times, Adam & Eve wouldn't have been guilty of sin- breaking the law! Now, before righteousness from faith was imputed to Abraham, was it before or after he had been circumcised? (Romans 4:9-10). Do you not know that faith without work is dead (), and that this truth is not just binding spiritually but physically as well? Understand! Before one can become a Christian, he first of all REPENT (Acts 2:38). What is it that he repents from? Also, before one can repent, FAITH must accompanied it. So what picture do we have here? A classic example of faith working alongside work! Do not try to quote Scriptures out of context to me, I am no baby in this matters. Read from verse 1 of Romans 14 down, to understand verse 23. PS: Where there is no LAW, there is no sin. But now, the law is binding and so is sin. Or is sin no more 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Goshen360(m): 12:57am On Feb 11, 2017 |
^ ^ ^ I think or perceive you're going to be difficult to discuss the scriptures with but I'll try hold my composition. I raised few issues in response to your questions but you went ahead mixing up too many things together. Anyway, I'll try do justice to this later. I'll try do a step by step teaching from scriptures, establishing what the law (which was not given to the Gentile Christians in the first place) and what it contains and show how the scriptures nullified and abolished the whole LAW leaving us with the Spirit to lead, guide and instruct us in Christ. |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by ichuka(m): 1:24am On Feb 11, 2017 |
ayoku777: |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Splinz(m): 1:32am On Feb 11, 2017 |
Goshen360: Oh yeah, you'll have a terrible time trying to mess the Scriptures with someone like me. I've dealt with these issues for long. And the problem with people like you is the inability to differentiate the Ten Commandment from the laws of Moses. PS: It is indeed very true when apostle Peter said that Paul wrote some things hard to understand, which the unlearned twist to their destruction (2 Peter 3:16). Indeed, the writings of Paul is always the biggest stumbling block to people like you, so-called "Grace Preachers". 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Goshen360(m): 4:17am On Feb 11, 2017 |
@ ichuka, Longest time, lemme see if I have some fun with this our brother before I give up on him....  |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Goshen360(m): 5:32am On Feb 11, 2017 |
I'll like to do a step by step teaching to the readers and to FIRST establish from scriptures these TWO FACTS: 1. The scripture says, the 10 commandments are THE OLD COVENANT 2. The 10 commandments are part or inclusive of the law(s) of Moses After showing these 2 facts, we can then drive home our point from scriptures showing the LAW IS ABOLISHED, including the 10 and the rest of the 603. New International Version Moses was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights without eating bread or drinking water. And he wrote on the tablets[u] the words of the covenant--the Ten Commandments.[/u] New Living Translation Moses remained there on the mountain with the LORD forty days and forty nights. In all that time he ate no bread and drank no water. And the LORD wrote the terms of the covenant--the Ten Commandments--on the stone tablets. English Standard Version So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights. He neither ate bread nor drank water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments. New American Standard Bible So he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did not eat bread or drink water. And he wrote on the tablets the words of the covenant, the Ten Commandments. King James Bible And he was there with the LORD forty days and forty nights; he did neither eat bread, nor drink water. And he wrote upon the tables the words of the covenant, the ten commandments. Exodus 34:28 Exodus 31:16-18 says the sabbath too is part of the covenant. Deuteronomy 4:13 "So He declared to you His covenant which He commanded you to perform, that is, the Ten Commandments; and He wrote them on two tablets of stone. Deuteronomy 9:9 "When I went up to the mountain to receive the tablets of stone, the tablets of the covenant which the LORD had made with you, then I remained on the mountain forty days and nights; I neither ate bread nor drank water. Here in the above scriptures, it is clear the the 10 commandments IS INCLUDED AS A WHOLE NOT SEPARATED from the old covenant. Law keepers claim that the 10 commandments are not the old covenant They also claim that the old covenant that was abolished was not the Ten Commandments but are the Law of Moses; meaning the civil/ceremonial only. There is no Biblical support for this position. The Bible clearly teaches that the Sabbath was part of the OLD covenant and that the 10 commandments is the old covenant or part of the old covenant. Are the 10 different from the rest of the Law of Moses or were they inclusive? This is the critical issue that needs to be seen so that one can know what is of the old covenant, and to know what it is and what is not of the New Covenant, If confused about this you will not understand what is to be put aside or carried over to practice in the New Testament covenant. to be continue 1 Like |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Goshen360(m): 5:40am On Feb 11, 2017 |
@ Splinz, Do you agree to the above ^ ^ ^ or disagree to the above that the 10 commandments are part of the old covenant? Let's take it step by step. |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by petra1(m): 6:51am On Feb 11, 2017 |
analice107: Beautiful . |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by petra1(m): 7:30am On Feb 11, 2017 |
I agree with the op to an extent . Christ came to fulfill the law in us by giving us a new law which is nature in us and by this nature we are able to fulfill the righteousness of God. The law was the law of God. It contained principles of Gods kingdom . Romans 7:12 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Romans 7:14 14 For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin. Without the knowledge of the law . You can't know what sin is. Romans 7:7 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. It's not every sin that is mentioned in the epistles. E.g Marrying your sister and mother . The problem with the law was that it couldn't give man righteousness. And the reason was because of man's fallen state . Man lack the ability to do righteousness. Romans 7:20-21 20 Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me. 21 I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me. Romans 7:10-12 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. Romans 7:13 13 Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful So it's clear here that the issue is not the law but man's fallen nature . We are not under the law to be justified by it but The law contain some principles that are eternal in the kingdom of God. Christ fulfill the righteousness by being our substitute and ransom for sin. But the moral principles of the law are kingdom principle . Remember the Bible the early church had was not Romans and Galatians it was the law they were studying James 1:22 (KJV Strong's) 22 But be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves. Romans 2:13 13 (For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified. Romans 7:10-12 10 And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death. 11 For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me. 12 Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good. And that's why you could find Paul quoting the law in many of his epistles like the Ephesians Ephesians 6:2-3 2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise  3 That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.But that by no means. Put us under the law to be justified by it . A man that seek to be justified by the law is fallen from grace . The law is good as long as it is used the right way . To study and to know Gods mind and principles . And also a reference point 1 Like 1 Share |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by ichuka(m): 8:16am On Feb 11, 2017 |
Goshen360:Lol Ok caught your fun Make I take back stage. Nice to hear from you My greetings to your family |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Splinz(m): 8:19am On Feb 11, 2017 |
Goshen360: Very poor attempt as usual. That the Ten Commandment was given in the Old Testament does not in anyway nullify its validity in the New Testament. Have you not seen how Jesus even went further in strenthening the Ten Commandment in the New Testament? What about the apostles? I keep on asking you why a Law described as "holy, righteous and good" should be abolished. Of course, you're turning a blind eye to it! When I say you do not know what was abolished in the Old Testament, it is indeed a true saying. When you say the Ten Commandment was part of the Old Covenant and the old is done away, do you also mean the whole of Old Testament writings are abolished too I do not agree with you not just because I want to disagree, but because the Scriptures itself disagrees as well! |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by ayoku777(m): 8:33am On Feb 11, 2017 |
analice107: That's not true, the ten commandments too were done away with. Read this; 2Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: Question! Which part of the law was written and engraved in stones? The ceremonial laws or the ten commandments? Of course, it's the ten commandments. So according to this scripture, the ten commandments is the ministration of death and it was to be done away with. And it has been done away with. 2Cor 3:11 For if THAT WHICH IS DONE AWAY was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious. The ministration of death, written and engraved in stones (the ten commandments) has been done away with -according to the scriptures. This scripture should be enough. But for emphasis let me use the witness of another scripture. Rom 7:4 Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God. 6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter. According to these scriptures, we are dead to the law and we delivered from the law. Question! Which law are we dead to and delivered from? The ceremonial laws or the ten commandments? Which law was the writer referring to? The next verse (verse 7) answers that question. Rom 7:7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. The law that the writer is talking about in this chapter is the law under which we have "Thou shalt not covet." Under which law do we have "Thou shalt not covet."? Under the ceremonial laws or the ten commandments? Of course, the ten commandments. So according to the scriptures again, the laws we are now dead to and no more under includes the ten commandments. Jesus delivered us from both ceremonial and the ten. Infact when the scriptures talk about the Law under the new covenant, it is referring to both the ceremonial laws and the ten commandments. Eph 2:15 Having ABOLISHED in his flesh the enmity, even the LAW OF COMMANDMENTS contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; ISV puts it more explicitly; Eph 2:15 He rendered the Law inoperative, ALONG WITH ITS COMMANDMENTS AND REGULATIONS, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace, You see. Both the ceremonial laws and the ten commandments were done away with. If you are still having difficulty grasping the conflict between the Law and the Spirit; read the post I made earlier on this thread or just click this link - https://www.nairaland.com/2775627/purpose-law Shalom 4 Likes |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by MuttleyLaff: 11:05am On Feb 11, 2017 |
blueAgent:Now here are the questions for you #1 What is God? What's your response going to be? Spirit? No or Yes? #2 What then will His law be? What's your response going to be? The law of the Spirit? No or Yes? #3 What has the ''The law of the Spirit'' set us free from ? What's your response going to be? The law of sin and death? No or Yes? #4 What are some examples of the ''The law of sin and death''? What's your response going to be? The Ten commandments? No or Yes? Now, lets go up a gear a bit or step a bit in deeper waters # 5 What is the law of gravity, what does it do and/or what is it all about? #6 What is the law of aerodynamics, what does it do and/or what is it all about? #7 Does the law of gravity produce any effect whilst the law of aerodynamics is being made use of? What's your response going to be? No or Yes? blueAgent:But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter - Romans 7:6 KJV But now we have been exempted from The Written Law, and we are dead to that which had controlled us, so that we shall serve from now on in the newness of The Spirit and not in the Old Order Scriptures - Romans 7:6 Aramaic Bible in Plain English We dont want a long post, so wont bother going into the implication of the House of Israel in this matter except than say: think for a moment, why wasnt a mention of the House of Judah in all of that too We being released from the law, doesnt mean, The law of the Spirit has given us a licence to sin Most can see that the gist of Romans 7 was talking about ''release from the law'' but you have cherry plucked Romans 7:7 out of from it and turned the gist in Romans 7 to mean the opposite. Chai, there is God ooo Brother, please think deeply about the reproduced Romans 7:6 above blueAgent:But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses - Galatians 5:18 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ - John 1:17 The Spirit will ALWAYS and ONLY direct you, to do the right thing and there, at your disposal are GRACE and TRUTH to help you with doing just that (i.e. the right thing) |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by MuttleyLaff: 11:05am On Feb 11, 2017 |
blueAgent: Goshen360:For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death - Romans 8:2 Goshen360 baba, it cant get said any simpler than what you've posted The things legalism cause in the body of Christ isnt a small thing The old exists, you know of its existence, you are aware of it, but dont go near it or talkless go to activate it Dont legalists know that if one is operating the new, one renders the old inoperative or impotent? As one, essentially overrides the 10 commandments with something that's higher, stronger and superior Goshen360: Splinz: Goshen360: Splinz:For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death - Romans 8:2 But when you are directed by the Spirit, you are not under obligation to the law of Moses - Galatians 5:18 For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ - John 1:17 The above are proofs that the Ten Commandment is no longer binding The Ten Commandment is no longer binding to anyone operating something that's higher, stronger and superior due to being led by the Spirit |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by MuttleyLaff: 11:05am On Feb 11, 2017 |
analice107:Jesus came not to abolish the law or the prophets but came to fulfill them Jesus fulfilled everything the law required of Him (i.e. Mosaic law, ceremonial laws, moral laws etcetera) and Jesus fulfilled everything the prophets said about and/or of Him (i.e. redemption, salvation, atonement etcetera) Jesus in effect did everything right, He did all that is necessary. He once insisted on water baptism just for the sake to fulfill all righteousness Jesus did everything deemed right in the eyes of God These are all things, we, omo Adamo, couldnt achieve, realise or succeed in doing by ourselves BUT He did He did things we would never be able to manage to do ourselves, for us He brought an end to the commandments and demands found in Moses' Teachings so that he could take Jewish and non-Jewish people and create one new humanity in himself. So he made peace. - Ephesians 2:15 He rendered the Law inoperative, along with its commandments and regulations, thus creating in himself one new humanity from the two, thereby making peace - Ephesians 2:15 ISV It was after Jesus fulfilling the law (i.e. the law of sin and death), that it became abolished (i.e. inoperative) because of the law of the Spirit Moral law or no moral law, with grace and truth given by the Spirit you are equipped to do what is right in the eyes of God petra1:The real and true beauty is in, that tithe, is included in what at the right moment or time became abolished or done away with Goshen360:Its easy to spot travel classes in posts and know who's in first class travel (e.g. those who regularly brush or clean their bible so not to fall victim of truth decay) who's in business class travel (e.g. mostly tithe-marketeers, literalists and/or tithers) who's in preminum economy class travel (e.g. sheepified) who's in economy class travel (e.g. sheeple) but as for you Sire, you're in the first class travel You slayed it with all of the above - Joseph did the right thing, as he knew it is great wickedness and sin against God even before there was any written law against such act PS: I love that: The Purpose Of The Law by ayoku777(m): 8:37am On Dec 02, 2015 Brilliant post if you see one, that is |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by petra1(m): 12:10pm On Feb 11, 2017 |
MuttleyLaff: Tithes and offering and alms and worship will always be principles in Gods kingdom |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by MuttleyLaff: 12:32pm On Feb 11, 2017 |
petra1:  But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him - John 4:23 KJV Yes, accepted they are all eternal principles but as you know and will accept, eternal principle pass eternal principle different different eternal principles nahin dey, eternal principles get categories and just as the law of gravity is annihilated & rendered useless, with no effect by the another eternal principle in the name of the the law of aerodynamics, which is better, stronger and superior so are tithes & offering and alms, replaced with cheerful giving done under no cajoling, done with no manipulation or twisting of scriptures and God's true worshipers, importantly, dont just worship BUT must worship God in spirit and in truth. |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Goshen360(m): 1:18pm On Feb 11, 2017 |
Splinz: okay, I need you to calm down and flow with the discussion. One step at a time. Okay. I will answer your questions too. Let's have a recap: 1 - I said I will establish 2 things: That the 10 IS THE old covenant AND/OR that the 10 commandments IS PART OF PART OF the old covenant.....meaning its inclusive or included in the old covenant........NOT THAT Splinz: What I showed you from scriptures, I FIRST need you to AGREE - Yes or NO. # 2 Splinz: Now, lets straighten some issues here in your above ^ ^ ^ statement: a. Matthew, Mark, Luke and John ARE NOT the New Testament. Those books were written after Christ dies BUT the EVENTS recorded happened DURING the life of Christ. So, Jesus strengthening the 10 commandments under the 4 gospels is the truth that he himself is still under the OLD COVENANT which is the LAW DISPENSATION. Galatians 4:4. Also, Jesus strengthening the 10 commandment is to USE THESE LAWS, the 10 inclusive TO BURY THE PEOPLE IN THE LAW, TO BE DEAD TO THE LAW AND MAKE IT MORE DIFFICULT TO DO SO THE PEOPLE WILL RECOGNIZE HIM AS THE SAVIOUR THEY NEED, AND COME TO THE SAVIOUR, CHRIST. So, you see Jesus saying, things like, IF YOU want to HAVE ETERNAL LIFE....keep the commandments, that is the 10 because we know by the context he was talking about the 10. But the rich young ruler said he's being keeping it since his childhood. Well, how come he still didn't have eternal life? Jesus THEREAFTER introduce the man to HIMSELF. Today, in order for YOU to have ETERNAL life. You are not told to keep the 10 commandments BUT believe in the Christ. b - [/b] What about the apostles? I keep on asking you why a Law described as "holy, righteous and good" should be abolished. Of course, you're turning a blind eye to it [/quote] The problem here word study. You see or read the word "Holy" you probably thing is means "sinlessness"?, you read righteous and good and interpret it to mean God's righteousness. The law being holy, YES but it doesn't make YOU holy, it is righteous BUT it doesn't make YOU righteous. It is good BUT it doesn't make you good. So what does that verse mean IN CONTEXT......Start from verse 1 of Romans 7. He was SPEAKING To the people that OF THE LAW. So the law is holy to them so as to SET THEM APART, MAKE THEM RIGHTEOUS AND GOOD......in the EYES of God UNTIL the time of the coming of Christ. New Living Translation Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian. Galatians 3: 24 - 25 But Paul the Apostle went further to make an outstanding statement by the Spirit that, the strength of sin IS THE law. |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Goshen360(m): 1:25pm On Feb 11, 2017 |
@ Splinz, We are still on the #1 FACTS of the TWO things I said I will establish from scriptures o. Goshen360: Okay! Now......to the #2: That, the 10 commandments IS THE law AND\OR that IT IS PART AND INCLUSIVE OF THE LAW as a whole given to Moses. I will not sweat much here because what I wanted to show in the number 2 FACTS, my brother Ayoku had done the same so I will just quote him. So when you or other say, the LAW ABOLISHED DOESN'T INCLUDE THE 10 COMMANDMENTS, look at scriptures flying in your face. Be calm and read this: ayoku777: |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Splinz(m): 4:12pm On Feb 11, 2017 |
I have been telling you to know who you're dealing with here. Do not think you can cheery-picked Scriptures and terribly twist them to suit your preconceived ideas, and hope that I'd be a part of it. From my own background, all Scriptures must be in congruence. Looking at Romans 3 down, one may be tempted to think that Paul is condemning and ruling out the LAW entirely. But just at the end of this chapter, he drops the bombshell: "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law". Here, two words stood out: NULLIFY AND UPHOLD. Paul said he is not nullifying the law but rather upholding it. Is it really that difficult to understand? Are you sincerely ignorance of these things or simply being mischievous? Up there, you have rendered the teachings of Jesus null and void, ridiculously claiming He taught those things while He was under the Old dispensation (I wish I could laugh off this naivety. But no, it's really heartbreaking). To you, all what He taught then was only active for as long as He was on earth. Having died, He nullified those things, of course, this understanding is only according to what is in your head. This is because the same Jesus you claimed did away with His holy, righteous and good LAW, in His revelation to apostle John further uphold as did Paul and other faithfuls that indeed, true Christians are commandment keepers. Here: "Then the dragon was angry with the woman, and went off to make war on the rest of her offspring, on those who keep the commandments of God and bear testimony to Jesus" (Rev. 12:17). Hmm. When you are ready to tie up Paul's hard sayings together harmoniously, call my attention. Till then, I can only sit back and watch you twist these things to your own destruction. cc: Goshen360. |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by ayoku777(m): 6:22pm On Feb 11, 2017 |
Splinz: You claim Goshen is cherry-picking but you are doing exactly what you are accusing him of. You ignored all the verses and scriptures he quoted that explicitly stated that the law has been abolished and done away with , and you simply quoted the one that you think supported your argument. That is not how to knock down an argument. That only presumes you're saying the scriptures are contradictory. Which is not true. Let me do this. I want you to reconcile these verses; Eph 2:15 Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; And this; 2Cor 3:7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: And this; Rom 3:31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. The first scripture said Jesus Christ has abolished the Law of commandments which is the ten commandments. The second scripture said the ministration of death, written and engraved in stones (which can only be the ten commandments) has been done away with. And the third scripture, which you used said we don't make the Law void through faith, but we establish the law. Can you reconcile these three verses? If truly the word of God is one and without contradictions, how are these three verses saying the same thing? In other words, how do we establish what Christ has abolished and done away with? Shalom 2 Likes |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Goshen360(m): 6:29pm On Feb 11, 2017 |
Splinz: There is no need for insult and passing unwarranted words. 1. I expected you to follow the discussion line by line or respond to what I said paragraph by paragraph but I can understand. Maybe that's your own way of dealing with issues and/or writing. Now, what is Paul the Apostle saying in Romans 3 verse 31? Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. How do establish the law? By keeping it? How do we not make the law void through faith? By keeping it? If we are to establish and not void the law by keeping it. Then Paul by the Spirit will be wrong when he said: The law IS NOT of faith.....Galatians 3:12. He will also be wrong when he said: AFTER that faith has come, we no longer need the law....Galatians 3:25 And will also be wrong when he said: FREE from the law.....Romans 7:6. Now, to understand Romans 3:31, Lets go up a little bit and read it in context: 19 Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall no flesh be justified in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin. 21 But now the righteousness of God without the law is manifested, being witnessed by the law and the prophets; 22 Even the righteousness of God which is by faith of Jesus Christ unto all and upon all them that believe: for there is no difference: 23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; 24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus: 25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God; 26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus. 27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? of works? Nay: but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. 29 Is he the God of the Jews only? is he not also of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also: 30 Seeing it is one God, which shall justify the circumcision by faith, and uncircumcision through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith? God forbid: yea, we establish the law. A study into the statement of verse 31 shows that, the law is being establish AS A TOOL TO BRING PEOPLE TO CHRIST AND TO REVEAL THE GUILT OF MAN SHOWING THEM THAT WE HAVE ALL SINNED AND THEY NEED A SAVIOR. You’ll find the context has got nothing to do with US BELIEVERS having to continue in the law but everything to do with using the law AS A TOOL to lead people OF THE WORLD towards faith in Christ. The chapter speaks TO THOSE WHO ARE UNDER THE LAW OR THE LOST BUT BELIEVERS ARE NOT UNDER THE LAW - vs 19. The chapter is showing that the whole world is unrighteous and under the law of God whether they realize it or not, and that the law is NEEDED TO BRING THE KNOWLEDGE OF SIN THAT THEY ARE SINNERS so that people will turn to Christ in faith. Once we come into faith we are released from the law (Galatians 3:23-25). “Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God. 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law no flesh will be justified in His sight, for by the law is the knowledge of sin.” Galatians 3: 24, 25 “Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.” Once we came to Christ we were released from the law. It was put in charge to lead people to Christ by dismantling their self-righteousness. It is on this ground and reason that we uphold and establish the law to the lost world – it reveals to people that they need Christ and that they are not righteous before God. Basically we use it to bring the knowledge of sin to the self-righteous. BUT to US BELIEVERS, the same chapter: 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith without the deeds of the law. Paul is not contradicting himself. It is us the readers complicating issues. 1 Like |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Splinz(m): 7:01pm On Feb 11, 2017 |
ayoku777: Oh, you now know that this is not how to knock down an argument? But what exactly have you lot been doing? Yes! I intentionally ignored your cheery-picking since you lot are trying to be smart by half. And note, I said I'd be willing to harmonize these Scriptures once he's ready to harmonize them. You can't cheery-picked what seems to support your arguments at the expense of other truths! The same Paul you've been quoting expressly says: "Do we, then, nullify the law by this faith? Not at all! Rather, we uphold the law". Here, Paul is saying that the law is intact, but you, no; the law is abolished. You claimed (yes, you. Paul never said the LAW has been abolished) the law has been nullified, but Paul is saying contrarily. The question you should be asking yourself is: How can Paul uphold [interestingly enough, the dictionary definition of the word uphold is: confirm or support (something which has been questioned)] what is supposedly nullified (according to you)? Until you agree that your nullification of the LAW is not in harmony with other Scriptural truths, I'd not reconcile your stumbling blocks. PS: Did you also see how the Living Jesus Christ through His revelation to John, confirms that true Christians are commandment keepers, and because of this, Satan wages war against them 1 Like 2 Shares |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Goshen360(m): 7:01pm On Feb 11, 2017 |
Splinz: I have broken your comments into 2: 1 - I have not rendered the teachings of Jesus null and void. You are the one that needs to calm down, relax and understand what I wrote. Okay lemme put it in another way: In Luke 18, a man came to Jesus while he was alive, and asking what must he do to have ETERNAL LIFE? Jesus response was....Keep the 10 commandment! In Acts 16:30 - 31, The SAME question was asked? But two different answers. Why do we have 2 answers on having eternal life or salvation? Which one do you do today to be saved? Both scriptures cant be wrong. In the case of Jesus....He used the 10 commandments to bring that man to FAITH IN THE LORD JESUS which is what I wrote that the law is used for - to bring people to Christ as their Saviour when they see they cannot keep the whole law. You have to understand the ministry of Christ when he was alive - He used the law to bury people of that time into a harder law so they will see the need for him who has come as a savior. 2 - Every time you see the word commandments you simply or quickly think its talking about the 10 commandments? This is a wrong way of rightly dividing the word of truth. Now, lets see what commandment Christ was talking in the book of revelation. For John to have referenced that commandment, it will me Christ must have given such commandments: "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. - John 13:34. Look, it might look like he's telling you to love one another JUST AS it was said in the 10 commandments. But if it is so true that it just as the love in the 10 commandment, he won't have called it A NEW COMMANDMENT. The love of the 10 commandment is love so that God can love you back, that is, a give and take kind of love. But this NEW commandment is based on the fact THAT HE, CHRIST FIRST LOVED US and so, out of the love of Christ showered on us, we can then release love to others. This is NOT a give-and-take kind of love. And this is his commandment: We must believe in the name of his Son, Jesus Christ, and love one another, just as he commanded us. 1 John 3:23 You see, the commandment that John was referring to that Christ said is NOT the 10 commandment if we let scriptures interpret scriptures. |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Ubenedictus(m): 7:06pm On Feb 11, 2017 |
The whole old convenant that been given it true meaning in the new. The laws, ordinances and commandments of the old covenant have lost the judicial power. 1 Like |
| Re: Does The New Covenant Abolish The Ten Commandments? by Goshen360(m): 7:10pm On Feb 11, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: Thank you! |
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