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Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by rejosom(m): 8:35am On Jul 12, 2017 |
Amberon11: Thanks a lot. Now I know that elders of the church (Pastors I think) can pray for me when I am sick. How about other church members that are not elders, can they also Pray for me going by that passage? |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 10:05am On Jul 12, 2017 |
blueAgent:you are the one confusing yourself the history of my church is clear it started with the apostles in the upper room. do you have anything in particular to point out? Paul spoked about the falling away of early christains from the faith and from sound doctrine. you can see it is not a new thing.Paul talked about a falling away in the end time! Your church is an end time church, it is the very manifestation of the falling away Paul was talking about. He said that at time people will be deluded and they will start etching for their funny doctrines like soul sleep a doctrine that is alien to 1900yrs of Christianity. There were false teachers but Jesus himself promise that the false will never prevail against the True NEVER, ever, do you believe it or do you think Jesus was lying when he made the promise. Your church claims to be the first church but thats a big lie.so which of the 3 people were among the 12 apostles? Jesus didn't leave Ellen white to his church or the other 3 people he left it with the apostles and your church wasn't formed by an apostles. 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 10:11am On Jul 12, 2017 |
blueAgent: Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. Jesus has already promised that the false teachers will never prevail against his church . Do you believe him. 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 10:29am On Jul 12, 2017 |
blueAgent: Ellen White is the founder of your Church because she got the so called "vision" from God while She and her husband James where. part of the Millerite Movement, She is the chief Pioneer, the others only helped and championed it... LEARN YOUR OWN HISTORY |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by sonmvayina(m): 10:38am On Jul 12, 2017 |
luvmijeje: Hey, have you been reading my mind? Stop it...did you see the surprise birthday party I am planning fir my wife?...well jokes aside, something big is going to come out of there..August 17 keep ringing in my ears... Whatever it is though, I am on the side of life. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 7:13pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
sonmvayina:lol you guys are too funny. Enjoy! 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 9:13pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: I laugh ....The church started in the wilderness go and read your old testament. Acts7:38 This is he, that was in the church in the wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who received the lively oracles to give unto us: |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 9:15pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: You should ask yourself which Church has unbibilcal docttines in their church. From worship of Mary to purgatory,to praying to saints, to pope forgiving sins,to idol worship and advocating for gays, the list is endless. your church is Babaylon. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 9:25pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: Stop confusing yourself .Jesus was referring to the entire Christain body and not a particular Church. Secondly Jesus as well paul warned that during the endtime false doctrines and prophets will araise. The gate of Hell will not prevail has nothing to do with the Church been corrupted with evil doctrines |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 9:41pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
easymancfc: Which one is APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY ? Jesus said in Mark 16:17 " And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues" |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 9:42pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
easymancfc: Are the Elders dead? and who said the witnesses in Heb12:1 are the dead Saints. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 9:46pm On Jul 12, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: If you care. https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/48/t/spirits-of-the-dead |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 6:15am On Jul 13, 2017 |
blueAgent: Bro you need to study your Bible more... The Elders are humans and the Bible only tells of 2 people who never died but were taken up to heaven... Enoch (gen 5:24) and Elijah (2 kings 2:12).. The Word Elder comes from the greek word "presbyteros" which is found 67 times in the New testament first for the leaders of the synagogue ( mat 15:2, 21:23, mark 11:27, 14:53 etc) and for the apostles and those they ordained ( acts 11:30, 14:23, 1 peter 5:1, 2 jn 1:1, 3 jn 1:1) Now take note JOHN IS HAVING A VISION OF HEAVEN AND WE ARE ONLY AWARE OF TWO PEOPLE WHO WENT TO HEAVEN WITHOUT DEATH .... AND SO THESE ELDERS MUST HAVE DIED AND RECEIVED THE CROWN OF GLORY.... ON HEBREWS 12:1, YES THEY ARE DEAD BECAUSE HEBREWS 11 WAS TALKING ABOUT OUR EXAMPLES OF FAITH, FROM ABRAHAM TO MOSES TO RAHAB ETC... ALL OF WHOM ARE DEAD... AND SINCE THEY ARE BIBLICAL EXAMPLES OF FAITH THEN THEY ARE "SAINTS" since the bible is infallible and inerrant... take Hebrews 12:1 is a continuations of Hebrews 11 and in the original manuscripts there was not chapter and verse, that was done in later times |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 7:37am On Jul 13, 2017 |
blueAgent: Amen to that Sir.. but that doesnt mean everyone who believes has the right to "Start a CHURCH" In the Bible, only the apostles who have been sent by Jesus or those sent by the Apostles have the Authority to found Churches... Jesus said he would found a Church on Kepha (Peter) Mathew 16:18 Eph 2:19-20 says that the Church was built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets... Paul who founded most of the "Churches" had to be sent himself with apostolic authority before he begun his ministry (Acts 13:3) and He visited the Chief Peter in Jerusalem (gal 1:18) and to the apostles of "repute" to make sure his gospel was conformed to their so that in his own words "lest i be running in vain" (gal 2:1-2)... SO MY DEAR... ACCORDING TO BIBLE STANDARD.. YOU NEED APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY TO START A CHURCH SO IF YOU DONT HAVE ANY LINK TO THE APOSTLES OR THOSE ORDAINED BY THE APOSTLES, YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS FOUNDING CHURCHES 1 Like |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:13am On Jul 13, 2017 |
blueAgent: Or maybe you should maybe you own research and Stop been ignorant maybe the you will see that: 1. Nowhere is is written that every Christian practice and doctrines must be explicitly spelt out in the bible in fact must of those practices prevail the new testament. 2. The honor giving to Mary is both historic Christain practice and teaching and is equally biblical. Lu.2. Says: henceforth all generations should call me blessed. 3. Purgatory is also biblical for nobody is perfect so God has told us we will be saved every if out worship aren't perfect those he will do so via fire. 1cor 3:10-15 4. Jesus gate his church the power to declare sins forgiven in his name. Jn. 20:23. I am so thankful that the Church Jesus established is free from silly heresies list idol worship, soul sleep, judiazers, supporting gays marriage etc like your modern day heresies endtime churches. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:13am On Jul 13, 2017 |
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Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:14am On Jul 13, 2017 |
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Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Ubenedictus(m): 8:40am On Jul 13, 2017 |
You see why is good to read your bible abi? blueAgent: and I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build, my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it. Jesus wasn't talking about every Church has was talking about his Church. The one he was building on the apostles, not the one ellen white decided to do. Secondly Jesus as well paul warned that during the endtime false doctrines and prophets will arise.how come you guys see to lack comprehension? Your churches are the end time Church teaching heresy are the bible prophesied. You doctrines are the ones that the bible was warning about. Get out of your churches of men formed in their end times look for the Church founded by the apostles. The gate of Hell will not prevail has nothing to do with the Church been corrupted with evil doctrinesif heresy has prevailed against the Church then the decided has won. The gate of Hell has prevailed against the Church. That isn't possible unless you think Jesus is a liar. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blackbriar: 10:01am On Jul 13, 2017 |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blackbriar: 10:02am On Jul 13, 2017 |
blueAgent: What happens to a christian that dies in the grace of christ? |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blackbriar: 10:10am On Jul 13, 2017 |
I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord: Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried. He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead. I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 2:59pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
blackbriar: Those who die in Christ are waiting in the graves till the day ressurection and judgement . There will be an awakening from the sleep of death. The righteous will receive the gift of immortality, but it will all happen “In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality” (1 Corinthians 15:52, 53). Jesus said, “Marvel not at this, for the hour is coming in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:28, 29). Just click and read. https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/48/t/spirits-of-the-dead https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/4/t/absent-from-the-body |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 3:03pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: Jesus did not build his Church on peter find here the correct interpretation. WHAT JESUS REALLY MEANT So, was Jesus really building the Church on Peter (and his successors) in Matthew 16:18? Let’s look more closely at the verse. Understanding this passage in its original language, Greek, provides the key to understanding what Christ meant. Jesus used a wordplay that isn’t clear when read in English. First, Jesus used the word Petros when referring to Peter: “I also say to you that you are Peter [Petros].” He then used a similar-sounding word to describe what He was building His Church on: Petra. “And on this rock [petra] I will build My church.” So, Christ’s statement actually reads like this: “I also say to you that you are Petros, and on this petra I will build My Church. Peter’s given name was Simon Bar-Jonah, but Christ had given him the nickname Cephas—an Aramaic word meaning “A Stone” (John 1:42). Petros in Matthew 16:18 is the Greek form of the nickname. The meaning of both Cephas and Petros is the same: “a fragment, a stone” (Zondervan Expository Dictionary of Bible Words, pp. 537-538). The closest English words to petros would be pebble, stone or small rock. The second word Christ used was petra. This word also means rock, but it represents “a mass of rock” (ibid.). This word could be translated as boulder—an immovable mass. Had Christ intended to describe Peter, all He needed to say was: You are Peter and on you I will build My Church. But He didn’t say that. He distinguished the rock (petra) He was building the Church on from Peter (petros). The rock He was building His Church on was a rock big enough to serve as the chief cornerstone in the foundation; it was large, strong and immovable. This describes none other than Jesus Christ Himself! The rest of the Bible clearly identifies Jesus as this rock. Jesus is called “the chief cornerstone” seven times in the New Testament (Matthew 21:42; Mark 12:10; Luke 20:17; Acts 4:11; Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:6-7). In 1 Corinthians 10:4 the apostle Paul refers to Christ as “that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ.” Jesus was not only the chief cornerstone, He is still the active “head of the body, the church” (Colossians 1:18; see also Ephesians 5:23). Christ did establish offices in His Church (Ephesians 4:11), but the Bible instructs those who hold offices of leadership to remain faithful to Christ’s teachings (1 Corinthians 11:1). Even Peter himself—far from claiming the authority some believe he was given—taught plainly that Christians “should follow His [Christ’s] steps” (1Peter 2:21). just click and read if you are really honest to know the truth. https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/48/t/spirits-of-the-dead https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/4/t/absent-from-the-body |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 3:07pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
easymancfc: The elders are not men who died neither are they saints stop decieving yourself. God can create elders for the purpose of worshipping him in Heaven.there is no Bible verse that thats us who the elders are. If you know you are unbaised and honestly seek the truth click this links and read. https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/48/t/spirits-of-the-dead https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/4/t/absent-from-the-body |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 3:16pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
Ubenedictus: Anything that contradicts God's character and law is not acceptable the Bible says in Isaiah 8:20 ,To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them. So you see anything that does not agree with God's character and word is bullshit. Mary been called blessed does not give you the authority worship and pray to her. On Purgatory the bible says after death is judgement their is no probation in death. And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:28, 29).there is no repentance or work in the grave. Again we read, “For the grave cannot praise thee, death cannot celebrate thee: they that go down into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. The living, the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this day” (Isaiah 38:18, 19). Would not the righteous dead praise God if they were ushered into heaven at their death? David repeats the same timeless truth, “The dead praise not the Lord, neither any that go down into silence” (Psalm 115:17). “For in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the grave who shall give thee thanks?” (Psalm6:35) |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by blueAgent(m): 3:21pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
easymancfc: Your response is laughable. Story telling. Jesus said when two or more are gathered in his name his is their with them. All this excuse of Apostolic authority is crap |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 4:55pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
blueAgent: Again... Amen to that.. but how do you have two or three gathered in His name unless they believe in him and how can they believe? Romans 10:14 But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 And how can men preach unless they are SENT? who were sent to preach? JESUS SENT THE 11 APOSTLES TO PREACH AND THEY ALSO SENT OTHERS... mat 28:19-20... IT IS YOUR WORLDVIEW THAT IS LAUGHABLE.. BIBLICALLY ONLY APOSTLES OR THOSE SENT BY THE APOSTLES HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO. FOUND A CHURCH... HERE'S A CHALLENGE FOR YOU.. SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE APOSTOLIC AUCTION FOUNDED A CHURCH OTHERWISE KEEP QUIET... 2 Likes |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 5:09pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
blueAgent: So the Elders are a separate being created by God to worship him? BUHAHAHAHAHA.... CAN YOU SHOW ME WHERE THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE YOUR ADVENTIST LINKS ARE NOT AUTHORITATIVE SO YOU CAN KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF... IF ITS LINKS YOU WANT I CAN GIVE YOU A THOUSAND AND ONE MYSELF... SHOW ME WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT THOSE ELDERS IN REVELATION WERE SEPARATE BEINGS CREATED BY GOD FOR WORSHIP... ACCEPT TRUTH AND STOP BEING A STRAWMAN That word elder is used all throughout scripture for human beings.. so the meaning wont change in revelation... and how do human being go to heaven except in Enoch and Elijah's case?? AFTER DEATH AND JUDGEMENT.. Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for men to DIE once, and after that comes JUDGEMENT... WHAT COMES AFTER JUDGEMENT?? Romans 2:5b God’s righteous JUDGEMENT will be revealed. 6 For he will render to every man according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life; STOP DECEIVING YOURSELF |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Tampinu(m): 5:20pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
The Kebra Nagast, by E.A. Wallis Budge, [1932], at sacred-texts.com http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/kn/ 93. How the Men of RÔMÊ destroyed the Faith And after they had waited for three months—now ZION came into the country of ETHIOPIA at the beginning of the first month in the language of the HEBREWS, and in Greek TÂRMÔN and in GĔ’ĔZ (ETHIOPIC) MÎYÂZYÂ, on the sixth (or, seventh) day—they wrote down the Law and the names, and they deposited [the writing] for a memorial for the later days, so that what was right should be done for the pavilion [of ZION] p. 164 thereby, and so that the glory of the kings of ETHIOPIA and the glory of the kings of RÔMÊ might be well known. For the kings of ETHIOPIA and the kings of RÔMÊ were brethren and held the Christian Faith. Now first of all they believed in an orthodox manner in the preaching of the Apostles up to [the time of] CONSTANTINE, and ’ĔLÊNÎ (HELENA) the Queen, who brought forth the wood of the Cross, and they (i.e., the kings of RÔMÊ) continued [to believe for] one hundred and thirty years. And afterwards, SATAN, who hath been the enemy of man from of old, rose up, and seduced the people of the country of RÔMÊ, and they corrupted the Faith of CHRIST, and they introduced heresy into the Church of God by the mouth of NESTORIUS. And NESTORIUS, and ARIUS, and YABÂSÔ (?) were those into whose hearts he cast the same jealousy as he had cast into the heart of CAIN to slay his brother ABEL. In like manner did their father the Devil, the enemy of righteousness and the hater of good, cast jealousy, even as DAVID saith, "They speak violence in the heights of heaven, and set their mouths in the heavens, and their tongue waggeth on the earth."1 And those same men who know not whence they came, and know not whither they are going, revile their Creator with their tongues, and blaspheme His glory, while He is God, the Word of the Lord. He came down from the throne of His Godhead, and put on the body of ADAM, and He is God the Word. And in that body He was crucified so that He might redeem ADAM in his iniquity, and He went up into the heavens, and sat upon the throne of His Godhead in that body, which He had taken. And He shall come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and shall reward every man according to his work, for ever and ever. Amen. And we believe thus and we adore the Holy Trinity. And those who do not believe thus are excommunicated p. 165 by the Word of God, the King of heaven and earth, both in this world and in that world which is to come. And we are strong in the Orthodox Faith which the Fathers the Apostles have delivered unto us, the Faith of the Church. And thus ETHIOPIA continued to abide in her Faith until the coming of our Lord JESUS CHRIST, to Whom be glory forever and ever. Amen. Footnotes p. 164 1 Psalm lxxiii. 8, 9. [/quote] |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by kilisi(m): 6:02pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
I have been reading the back and forth argument. But hope you all can reason on this scripture: John 3:13. Thanks. |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by Tampinu(m): 6:08pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
kilisi: It means Jesus/Imanuel is the only one who can ascend into heaven because from thence he came... |
Re: Is Catholics Praying To Dead Saints Biblical? by easymancfc(m): 7:12pm On Jul 15, 2017 |
kilisi:Before the ascension.. Heaven was not Open... the righteous dead went to "Abraham's bosom", see luke 16, while the Wicked went to sheoul. But when Jesus ascended after his resurrection, He open the door to all the righteous dead.. 8 Therefore it is said, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives, and he gave gifts to men.” Here's another thing to ponder, if no one else has ever ascended, then where did the chariots of fire take Elijah to? (2 kings 2:12) |
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