Amberon11:

James 5: 14 Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church , and let them pray over him , anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord.

Thanks a lot. Now I know that elders of the church (Pastors I think) can pray for me when I am sick. How about other church members that are not elders, can they also Pray for me going by that passage?

blueAgent:



You are confusing yourself.
Go and google about the history of your Church doctrines.

you are the one confusing yourself the history of my church is clear it started with the apostles in the upper room. do you have anything in particular to point out?

Paul spoked about the falling away of early christains from the faith and from sound doctrine. you can see it is not a new thing.

Paul talked about a falling away in the end time! Your church is an end time church, it is the very manifestation of the falling away Paul was talking about. He said that at time people will be deluded and they will start etching for their funny doctrines like soul sleep a doctrine that is alien to 1900yrs of Christianity.

There were false teachers but Jesus himself promise that the false will never prevail against the True NEVER, ever, do you believe it or do you think Jesus was lying when he made the promise.

Your church claims to be the first church but thats a big lie.

Ellen G White was not the sole founder of Adventist they were more than 3 people which started the church based on Bible doctrine not on Heresy like your church.

so which of the 3 people were among the 12 apostles? Jesus didn't leave Ellen white to his church or the other 3 people he left it with the apostles and your church wasn't formed by an apostles.

blueAgent:





Jesus warned ( Matt. 7:15),
“Beware of false prophets, who come to you in
sheep’s clothing, but inwardly are ravenous
wolves.” Much of His ministry consisted of
confronting the false teaching of the religious
leaders of His day (cf. Matt. 16:11-12; 23:1-39).
In His discourse on things to come, He warned
( Matt. 24:4-5), “See to it that no one misleads
you. For many will come in My name, saying, ‘I
am the Christ,’ and will mislead many.”
The apostle Peter devotes most of 2 Peter to
warning against false teachers. Jude devotes his
entire short letter to the same theme. John in his
epistles repeatedly warns of false teachers. Paul’s
final words to the Ephesian elders warned them. Acts 20:28-30

His final letters to Timothy and Titus repeatedly
emphasize the need for sound doctrine. He told
Titus (1:9) that an elder must hold “fast the
faithful word which is in accordance with the
teaching, so that he will be able both to exhort in
sound doctrine and to refute those who
contradict.” He goes on to explain that there are
many empty talkers and deceivers who are
upsetting whole households through their false
teaching. In his final charge to Timothy, after
telling him to preach the word, he explained ( 2
Tim. 4:3-4), “For the time will come when they
will not endure sound doctrine; but wanting to
have their ears tickled, they will accumulate for
themselves teachers in accordance to their own
desires, and will turn away their ears from the
truth and will turn aside to myths.”
So it should not surprise us that as Paul
concludes his letter to the Romans, in the midst
of giving and sending warm greetings to the
saints, he breaks in with this warning to beware
of false teachers. Some liberal commentators
have thought that this paragraph is so abrupt and
out of context that it must have been added by a
later scribe. But Paul was constantly battling false
teachers who hounded his steps and perverted
the truth of the gospel. He was writing from
Corinth, where false apostles posing as servants
of righteousness had caused much damage ( 2
Cor. 11:3-15). As he thought of his many dear
friends in Rome, he didn’t want them to be led
astray. He had heard that they were doing well in
the Lord (16:19a), but the present is no guarantee
for the future. So his love for them prompted him
to insert this warning against the dangers of false teachers

Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon
son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to
you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in
heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter,
and on this rock I will build my church,
and the gates of Hades will not overcome
it.





Jesus has already promised that the false teachers will never prevail against his church .

Do you believe him.

blueAgent:



You are confusing yourself.
Go and google about the history of your Church doctrines.
Paul spoked about the falling away of early christains from the faith and from sound doctrine. you can see it is not a new thing.
Your church claims to be the first church but thats a big lie.

Ellen G White was not the sole founder of Adventist they were more than 3 people which started the church based on Bible doctrine not on Heresy like your church.

Ellen White is the founder of your Church because she got the so called "vision" from God while She and her husband James where. part of the Millerite Movement, She is the chief Pioneer, the others only helped and championed it...


LEARN YOUR OWN HISTORY

luvmijeje:
Something is going on in that Church. I'll advise believers to focus their attention on what's coming out of that church. Something big is about to happen and it will emanate from there.

He who has ears, let him hear.

Hey, have you been reading my mind? Stop it...did you see the surprise birthday party I am planning fir my wife?...well jokes aside, something big is going to come out of there..August 17 keep ringing in my ears...
Whatever it is though, I am on the side of life.

sonmvayina:


Hey, have you been reading my mind? Stop it...did you see the surprise birthday party I am planning fir my wife?...well jokes aside, something big is going to come out of there..August 17 keep ringing in my ears...
Whatever it is though, I am on the side of life.

lol you guys are too funny. Enjoy!

Ubenedictus:
you are the one confusing yourself the history of my church is clear it started with the apostles in the upper room. do you have anything in particular to point out?
Paul talked about a falling away in the end time! Your church is an end time church, it is the very manifestation of the falling away Paul was talking about. He said that at time people will be deluded and they will start etching for their funny doctrines like soul sleep a doctrine that is alien to 1900yrs of Christianity.

There were false teachers but Jesus himself promise that the false will never prevail against the True NEVER, ever, do you believe it or do you think Jesus was lying when he made the promise.



so which of the 3 people were among the 12 apostles? Jesus didn't leave Ellen white to his church or the other 3 people he left it with the apostles and your church wasn't formed by an apostles.

I laugh ....The church started in the wilderness go and read your old testament.

Acts7:38
This is he, that was in the church in the
wilderness with the angel which spake to him in the mount Sina, and with our fathers: who
received the lively oracles to give unto us:

Ubenedictus:
you are the one confusing yourself the history of my church is clear it started with the apostles in the upper room. do you have anything in particular to point out?
Paul talked about a falling away in the end time! Your church is an end time church, it is the very manifestation of the falling away Paul was talking about. He said that at time people will be deluded and they will start etching for their funny doctrines like soul sleep a doctrine that is alien to 1900yrs of Christianity.

There were false teachers but Jesus himself promise that the false will never prevail against the True NEVER, ever, do you believe it or do you think Jesus was lying when he made the promise.



so which of the 3 people were among the 12 apostles? Jesus didn't leave Ellen white to his church or the other 3 people he left it with the apostles and your church wasn't formed by an apostles.

You should ask yourself which Church has unbibilcal docttines in their church.
From worship of Mary to purgatory,to praying to saints, to pope forgiving sins,to idol worship and advocating for gays, the list is endless. your church is Babaylon.

Ubenedictus:




Jesus replied, “Blessed are you, Simon
son of Jonah, for this was not revealed to
you by flesh and blood, but by my Father in
heaven. And I tell you that you are Peter,
and on this rock I will build my church,
and the gates of Hades will not overcome
it.





Jesus has already promised that the false teachers will never prevail against his church .

Do you believe him.

Stop confusing yourself .Jesus was referring to the entire Christain body and not a particular Church.
Secondly Jesus as well paul warned that during the endtime false doctrines and prophets will araise.

The gate of Hell will not prevail has nothing to do with the Church been corrupted with evil doctrines

easymancfc:


in essence what you mean is .. it doesnt matter what the catholic church says or what the catholic church who compiled the Bible says the bible says... what matters is what the seventh day adventist church says the bible says right??

you and the Adventist Church which didnt exist before the 19th century cannot interprete scripture better than the people who compiled it...
that and your founder ELLEN GOURD WHITE DOESN'T HAVE APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY TO TEACH... AND YOU WOULD AGREE THAT YOU AND E. G. WHITE ARE NOT THE INFALLIBLE INTERPRETERS OF SCRIPTURE...
go and read the articles i shared again to see how other Christians see your soul sleep heresy.
my dear.. you dont understand simple christian doctrine that has been around for almost 2000 years .. there will be a resurrection of the "Body" at the end.

Which one is APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY ?
Jesus said in Mark 16:17 "
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues"

easymancfc:

Just to make a distinction
WE DONT PRAY TO THE DEAD... WE ASK MEMBERS OF THE GLORIFIED BODY OF CHRIST FOR THEIR PRAYERS/INTERCESSION..
YES ALL PRAYERS ARE THROUGH JESUS ALONE.. THE SAINTS IN HEAVEN ALSO PRAY IN JESUS NAME.. THAT AND THE FACT THAT THEY ARE MEMBERS OF CHRIST BODY..
My dear there is a lot...
death doesn't separate us from the body of Christ (rom ... all the members of the body need each other (1 cor 12:19-24).. t

heb 12:1 says we have a cloud of witnesses who cheer us on...

witnesses observe events.. and attest...

rev 5:8.. talks about 24 human beings (elders) who offer prayers of the saints ON EARTH to God..

Are the Elders dead? and who said the witnesses in Heb12:1 are the dead Saints.

Ubenedictus:
we can now start throwing links around abi?

If you care.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/48/t/spirits-of-the-dead

blueAgent:




Are the Elders dead? and who said the witnesses in Heb12:1 are the dead Saints.

Bro you need to study your Bible more... The Elders are humans and the Bible only tells of 2 people who never died but were taken up to heaven... Enoch (gen 5:24) and Elijah (2 kings 2:12)..
The Word Elder comes from the greek word "presbyteros" which is found 67 times in the New testament first for the leaders of the synagogue ( mat 15:2, 21:23, mark 11:27, 14:53 etc) and for the apostles and those they ordained ( acts 11:30, 14:23, 1 peter 5:1, 2 jn 1:1, 3 jn 1:1)

Now take note JOHN IS HAVING A VISION OF HEAVEN AND WE ARE ONLY AWARE OF TWO PEOPLE WHO WENT TO HEAVEN WITHOUT DEATH .... AND SO THESE ELDERS MUST HAVE DIED AND RECEIVED THE CROWN OF GLORY....


ON HEBREWS 12:1, YES THEY ARE DEAD BECAUSE HEBREWS 11 WAS TALKING ABOUT OUR EXAMPLES OF FAITH, FROM ABRAHAM TO MOSES TO RAHAB ETC... ALL OF WHOM ARE DEAD... AND SINCE THEY ARE BIBLICAL EXAMPLES OF FAITH THEN THEY ARE "SAINTS" since the bible is infallible and inerrant...
take Hebrews 12:1 is a continuations of Hebrews 11 and in the original manuscripts there was not chapter and verse, that was done in later times

blueAgent:



Which one is APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY ?
Jesus said in Mark 16:17 "
And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues"

Amen to that Sir.. but that doesnt mean everyone who believes has the right to "Start a CHURCH"

In the Bible, only the apostles who have been sent by Jesus or those sent by the Apostles have the Authority to found Churches...

Jesus said he would found a Church on Kepha (Peter) Mathew 16:18

Eph 2:19-20 says that the Church was built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets...

Paul who founded most of the "Churches" had to be sent himself with apostolic authority before he begun his ministry (Acts 13:3) and He visited the Chief Peter in Jerusalem (gal 1:18) and to the apostles of "repute" to make sure his gospel was conformed to their so that in his own words "lest i be running in vain" (gal 2:1-2)...



SO MY DEAR... ACCORDING TO BIBLE STANDARD.. YOU NEED APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY TO START A CHURCH
SO IF YOU DONT HAVE ANY LINK TO THE APOSTLES OR THOSE ORDAINED BY THE APOSTLES, YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS FOUNDING CHURCHES

blueAgent:



You should ask yourself which Church has unbibilcal doctrines in their church.
From worship of Mary to purgatory,to praying to saints, to pope forgiving sins,to idol worship and advocating for gays, the list is endless. your church is Babylon.

Or maybe you should maybe you own research and Stop been ignorant maybe the you will see that:

1. Nowhere is is written that every Christian practice and doctrines must be explicitly spelt out in the bible in fact must of those practices prevail the new testament.

2. The honor giving to Mary is both historic Christain practice and teaching and is equally biblical. Lu.2. Says: henceforth all generations should call me blessed.
3. Purgatory is also biblical for nobody is perfect so God has told us we will be saved every if out worship aren't perfect those he will do so via fire. 1cor 3:10-15
4. Jesus gate his church the power to declare sins forgiven in his name. Jn. 20:23.


I am so thankful that the Church Jesus established is free from silly heresies list idol worship, soul sleep, judiazers, supporting gays marriage etc like your modern day heresies endtime churches.

...

..
...




...

You see why is good to read your bible abi?

blueAgent:


Stop confusing yourself .Jesus was referring to the entire Christain body and not a particular Church.

and I tell you that you are Peter,
and on this rock I will build, my church,
and the gates of Hades will not overcome
it.


Jesus wasn't talking about every Church has was talking about his Church. The one he was building on the apostles, not the one ellen white decided to do.

Secondly Jesus as well paul warned that during the endtime false doctrines and prophets will arise.

how come you guys see to lack comprehension? Your churches are the end time Church teaching heresy are the bible prophesied. You doctrines are the ones that the bible was warning about. Get out of your churches of men formed in their end times look for the Church founded by the apostles.

The gate of Hell will not prevail has nothing to do with the Church been corrupted with evil doctrines

if heresy has prevailed against the Church then the decided has won. The gate of Hell has prevailed against the Church. That isn't possible unless you think Jesus is a liar.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKWRuFjIRFo

blueAgent:
Catholics to praying to dead saints is it biblical.
One of the customs of Catholics is to pray to dead Saints to intercede on their behalf in Heaven.This doctrine is based on the belief that dead Saints are alive and already in Heaven this erroneous belief is one of the biggest decits of Satan.We will take a look at this issue with the Bible as our guide.
First what is the State of the dead? are they living or do they ascend into Heaven immediately after death.
Psalms 146:3 Put not your trust in princes, nor in the son of man, in whom there is no help. 146:4 His breath goeth forth, he returneth to his earth; in that very day his thoughts perish.
Ecclesiastes9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten. 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.
This Bible verses clearly show that the dead including the Saints are not in a state of consciousness but rather their thoughts,love,passions are all perished.




Death is likened to sleep,a man who is at sleep is not in control of his thoughts,actions or environment, same with death. Job 14:12 So man lieth down, and riseth not: till the heavens be no more, they shall not awake, nor be raised out of their sleep. 14:14 If a man die, shall he live again? all the days of my appointed time will I wait, till my change come. John 11:11 These things said he: and after that he saith unto them, Our friend Lazarus sleepeth; but I go, that I may awake him out of sleep. 11:12 Then said his disciples, Lord, if he sleep, he shall do well. 11:13 Howbeit Jesus spake of his death: but they thought that he had spoken of taking of rest in sleep.
So if the Saints are not in Heaven where can they be? The Saints are not in Heaven as we can see from those Bible verses they are all asleep in their graves or earth(dust).we will look at more bible verses to confirm this.
1 Thessalonians 4:14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 4:15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
Daniel 12:2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
This Bible verses confirm  that the dead sleep in the dust not in Heaven.
John  5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
Even David the man after God's heart,a man who Jesus Christ  was named after 'Thou son of David'  did not ascend into Heaven after his death.
I don't think there is anyone more qualified to be called a Saint than David.but still David did not ascend to Heaven at his death he is still lying in his grave waiting for the resurrection. Acts2:29 Men and brethren, let me freely speak unto you of the patriarch David, that he is both dead and buried, and his sepulchre is with us unto this day.
Acts 2:34 For David is not ascended into the heavens: but he saith himself, The Lord said unto my Lord, Sit thou on my right hand,
Even David knew he was not to go to Heaven immedately after his death so he wrote in Psalms  17:15 As for me, I will behold thy face in righteousness: I shall be satisfied, when I AWAKE, with thy likeness.

Considering the State of the dead,saints including Mary,Paul,Joseph,e.t.c while do Catholics still pray to them. It is apparent that they are praying to Idols and Demons in the name of praying to Saints.Mary,Paul,Peter,James,John,Stephen e.t.c  are all sleeping in their graves they neither eat,work, Think, or hear nor intercede in prayers on behalf of others.
This  evil doctrine has been sold to the public especially Catholics who believe that dead people go straight to Hell or Heaven immediately after death.
People go to Heaven or Hell on the Judgement day or day of resurrection not before then. Daniel12:2,John5:28-29 & 1cor15:12-14,1cor16-19.
John  5:28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,  5:29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
This bible verses confirm that the dead and Saints are not in Heaven but are waiting for the resurrection for if they were already in Heaven  the bible will not be talking about a resurrection of the Saints or the dead.what will they be resurrecting from since they are already in Heaven?
To Catholics pls deciet from praying to dead Saints they cannot hear you or intercede on your behalf.Only one name has been given to us by which man can be saved and that is the name of Jesus  Acts  4:12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.
Only Jesus not any dead saint or Mary or Paul or Pope.
We are expected to pray to God only through the name of Jesus not through any dead Saints John14:13 no other person can.mediate between man and God ,not Mary,Paul or angels but only Jesus Christ is our mediator 1Timothy  2:5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;
Christ and the Holy Spirit  which is the spirit of Christ can intercede on our behalf Romans 8:34,
Romans  8:26 Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.  8:27 And he that searcheth the hearts knoweth what is the mind of the Spirit, because he maketh intercession for the saints according to the will of God.

Thank You.

MuttleyLaff,
Splinz, Openmine

What happens to a christian that dies in the grace of christ?

I believe in God, the Father Almighty, Creator of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived by the Holy Spirit, born of the Virgin Mary; suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, died and was buried.
He descended into hell; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven, is seated at the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the Holy Catholic Church, the communion of Saints, the forgiveness of sins, the resurrection of the body, and life everlasting. Amen.

blackbriar:


What happens to a christian that dies in the grace of christ?

Those who die in Christ are waiting in the graves till the day ressurection and judgement .
There will be an awakening from the sleep of
death. The righteous will receive the gift of
immortality, but it will all happen “In a moment,
in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for
the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be
raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
For this corruptible must put on incorruption,
and this mortal must put on immortality” (1
Corinthians 15:52, 53). Jesus said, “Marvel not at this, for the hour is coming in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice, And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:28,
29).


Just click and read.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/48/t/spirits-of-the-dead

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/4/t/absent-from-the-body

Ubenedictus:
You see why is good to read your bible abi?



and I tell you that you are Peter,
and on this rock I will build, my church,
and the gates of Hades will not overcome
it.


Jesus wasn't talking about every Church has was talking about his Church. The one he was building on the apostles, not the one ellen white decided to do.


how come you guys see to lack comprehension? Your churches are the end time Church teaching heresy are the bible prophesied. You doctrines are the ones that the bible was warning about. Get out of your churches of men formed in their end times look for the Church founded by the apostles.

if heresy has prevailed against the Church then the decided has won. The gate of Hell has prevailed against the Church. That isn't possible unless you think Jesus is a liar.

Jesus did not build his Church on peter find here the correct interpretation.

WHAT JESUS REALLY MEANT
So, was Jesus really building the Church on Peter
(and his successors) in Matthew 16:18? Let’s
look more closely at the verse.
Understanding this passage in its original
language, Greek, provides the key to
understanding what Christ meant. Jesus used a
wordplay that isn’t clear when read in English.
First, Jesus used the word Petros when referring
to Peter: “I also say to you that you are Peter
[Petros].” He then used a similar-sounding word
to describe what He was building His Church on:
Petra. “And on this rock [petra] I will build My
church.”
So, Christ’s statement actually reads like this: “I
also say to you that you are Petros, and on this
petra I will build My Church.

Peter’s given name was Simon Bar-Jonah, but
Christ had given him the nickname Cephas—an
Aramaic word meaning “A Stone” (John 1:42).
Petros in Matthew 16:18 is the Greek form of the
nickname. The meaning of both Cephas and
Petros is the same: “a fragment, a
stone” (Zondervan Expository Dictionary of Bible
Words, pp. 537-538). The closest English words
to petros would be pebble, stone or small rock.
The second word Christ used was petra. This
word also means rock, but it represents “a mass
of rock” (ibid.). This word could be translated as
boulder—an immovable mass. Had Christ
intended to describe Peter, all He needed to say
was: You are Peter and on you I will build My
Church.
But He didn’t say that.
He distinguished the rock (petra) He was building
the Church on from Peter (petros). The rock He
was building His Church on was a rock big
enough to serve as the chief cornerstone in the
foundation; it was large, strong and immovable.
This describes none other than Jesus Christ
Himself!
The rest of the Bible clearly identifies Jesus as
this rock. Jesus is called “the chief cornerstone”
seven times in the New Testament (Matthew
21:42; Mark 12:10; Luke 20:17; Acts 4:11;
Ephesians 2:20; 1 Peter 2:6-7). In 1 Corinthians
10:4 the apostle Paul refers to Christ as “that
spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock
was Christ.”
Jesus was not only the chief cornerstone, He is
still the active “head of the body, the
church” (Colossians 1:18; see also Ephesians
5:23). Christ did establish offices in His Church
(Ephesians 4:11), but the Bible instructs those
who hold offices of leadership to remain faithful
to Christ’s teachings (1 Corinthians 11:1). Even
Peter himself—far from claiming the authority
some believe he was given—taught plainly that
Christians “should follow His [Christ’s] steps” (1Peter 2:21).



just click and read if you are really honest to know the truth.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/48/t/spirits-of-the-dead


https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/4/t/absent-from-the-body

easymancfc:


Bro you need to study your Bible more... The Elders are humans and the Bible only tells of 2 people who never died but were taken up to heaven... Enoch (gen 5:24) and Elijah (2 kings 2:12)..
The Word Elder comes from the greek word "presbyteros" which is found 67 times in the New testament first for the leaders of the synagogue ( mat 15:2, 21:23, mark 11:27, 14:53 etc) and for the apostles and those they ordained ( acts 11:30, 14:23, 1 peter 5:1, 2 jn 1:1, 3 jn 1:1)

Now take note JOHN IS HAVING A VISION OF HEAVEN AND WE ARE ONLY AWARE OF TWO PEOPLE WHO WENT TO HEAVEN WITHOUT DEATH .... AND SO THESE ELDERS MUST HAVE DIED AND RECEIVED THE CROWN OF GLORY....


ON HEBREWS 12:1, YES THEY ARE DEAD BECAUSE HEBREWS 11 WAS TALKING ABOUT OUR EXAMPLES OF FAITH, FROM ABRAHAM TO MOSES TO RAHAB ETC... ALL OF WHOM ARE DEAD... AND SINCE THEY ARE BIBLICAL EXAMPLES OF FAITH THEN THEY ARE "SAINTS" since the bible is infallible and inerrant...
take Hebrews 12:1 is a continuations of Hebrews 11 and in the original manuscripts there was not chapter and verse, that was done in later times

The elders are not men who died neither are they saints stop decieving yourself.
God can create elders for the purpose of worshipping him in Heaven.there is no Bible verse that thats us who the elders are.

If you know you are unbaised and honestly seek the truth click this links and read.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/48/t/spirits-of-the-dead


https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/4/t/absent-from-the-body

Ubenedictus:


Or maybe you should maybe you own research and Stop been ignorant maybe the you will see that:

1. Nowhere is is written that every Christian practice and doctrines must be explicitly spelt out in the bible in fact must of those practices prevail the new testament.

2. The honor giving to Mary is both historic Christain practice and teaching and is equally biblical. Lu.2. Says: henceforth all generations should call me blessed.
3. Purgatory is also biblical for nobody is perfect so God has told us we will be saved every if out worship aren't perfect those he will do so via fire. 1cor 3:10-15
4. Jesus gate his church the power to declare sins forgiven in his name. Jn. 20:23.


I am so thankful that the Church Jesus established is free from silly heresies list idol worship, soul sleep, judiazers, supporting gays marriage etc like your modern day heresies endtime churches.

Anything that contradicts God's character and law is not acceptable the Bible says in
Isaiah 8:20 ,To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

So you see anything that does not agree with God's character and word is bullshit.

Mary been called blessed does not give you the authority worship and pray to her.
On Purgatory the bible says after death is judgement their is no probation in death.
And shall
come forth; they that have done good, unto the
resurrection of life; and they that have done evil,
unto the resurrection of damnation” (John 5:28,
29).there is no repentance or work in the grave.
Again we read, “For the grave cannot praise thee,
death cannot celebrate thee: they that go down
into the pit cannot hope for thy truth. The living,
the living, he shall praise thee, as I do this
day” (Isaiah 38:18, 19). Would not the righteous
dead praise God if they were ushered into heaven
at their death? David repeats the same timeless
truth, “The dead praise not the Lord, neither any
that go down into silence” (Psalm 115:17). “For
in death there is no remembrance of thee: in the
grave who shall give thee thanks?” (Psalm6:35)

easymancfc:


Amen to that Sir.. but that doesnt mean everyone who believes has the right to "Start a CHURCH"

In the Bible, only the apostles who have been sent by Jesus or those sent by the Apostles have the Authority to found Churches...

Jesus said he would found a Church on Kepha (Peter) Mathew 16:18

Eph 2:19-20 says that the Church was built on the foundation of the Apostles and Prophets...

Paul who founded most of the "Churches" had to be sent himself with apostolic authority before he begun his ministry (Acts 13:3) and He visited the Chief Peter in Jerusalem (gal 1:18) and to the apostles of "repute" to make sure his gospel was conformed to their so that in his own words "lest i be running in vain" (gal 2:1-2)...



SO MY DEAR... ACCORDING TO BIBLE STANDARD.. YOU NEED APOSTOLIC AUTHORITY TO START A CHURCH
SO IF YOU DONT HAVE ANY LINK TO THE APOSTLES OR THOSE ORDAINED BY THE APOSTLES, YOU HAVE NO BUSINESS FOUNDING CHURCHES

Your response is laughable.
Story telling. Jesus said when two or more are gathered in his name his is their with them. All this excuse of Apostolic authority is crap

blueAgent:




Your response is laughable.
Story telling. Jesus said when two or more are gathered in his name his is their with them. All this excuse of Apostolic authority is crap

Again... Amen to that.. but how do you have two or three gathered in His name unless they believe in him and how can they believe?
Romans 10:14 But how are men to call upon him in whom they have not believed? And how are they to believe in him of whom they have never heard? And how are they to hear without a preacher? 15 And how can men preach unless they are SENT?
who were sent to preach?
JESUS SENT THE 11 APOSTLES TO PREACH AND THEY ALSO SENT OTHERS...
mat 28:19-20...

IT IS YOUR WORLDVIEW THAT IS LAUGHABLE.. BIBLICALLY ONLY APOSTLES OR THOSE SENT BY THE APOSTLES HAVE THE AUTHORITY TO. FOUND A CHURCH...

HERE'S A CHALLENGE FOR YOU..

SHOW ME IN THE BIBLE WHERE SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT HAVE APOSTOLIC AUCTION FOUNDED A CHURCH OTHERWISE KEEP QUIET...

blueAgent:






The elders are not men who died neither are they saints stop decieving yourself.
God can create elders for the purpose of worshipping him in Heaven.there is no Bible verse that thats us who the elders are.

If you know you are unbaised and honestly seek the truth click this links and read.

https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/48/t/spirits-of-the-dead


https://www.amazingfacts.org/media-library/book/e/4/t/absent-from-the-body

So the Elders are a separate being created by God to worship him?
BUHAHAHAHAHA....

CAN YOU SHOW ME WHERE THAT IS WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE

YOUR ADVENTIST LINKS ARE NOT AUTHORITATIVE SO YOU CAN KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF... IF ITS LINKS YOU WANT I CAN GIVE YOU A THOUSAND AND ONE MYSELF...

SHOW ME WHERE IT IS WRITTEN THAT THOSE ELDERS IN REVELATION WERE SEPARATE BEINGS CREATED BY GOD FOR WORSHIP...

ACCEPT TRUTH AND STOP BEING A STRAWMAN

That word elder is used all throughout scripture for human beings.. so the meaning wont change in revelation... and how do human being go to heaven except in Enoch and Elijah's case?? AFTER DEATH AND JUDGEMENT..

Hebrews 9:27 And just as it is appointed for men to DIE once, and after that comes JUDGEMENT...

WHAT COMES AFTER JUDGEMENT??

Romans 2:5b God’s righteous JUDGEMENT will be revealed. 6 For he will render to every man according to his works: 7 to those who by patience in well-doing seek for glory and honor and immortality, he will give eternal life;

STOP DECEIVING YOURSELF

The Kebra Nagast, by E.A. Wallis Budge, [1932], at sacred-texts.com
http://www.sacred-texts.com/chr/kn/

93. How the Men of RÔMÊ destroyed the Faith

And after they had waited for three months—now ZION came into the country of ETHIOPIA at the beginning of the first month in the language of the HEBREWS, and in Greek TÂRMÔN and in GĔ’ĔZ (ETHIOPIC) MÎYÂZYÂ, on the sixth (or, seventh) day—they wrote down the Law and the names, and they deposited [the writing] for a memorial for the later days, so that what was right should be done for the pavilion [of ZION] p. 164 thereby, and so that the glory of the kings of ETHIOPIA and the glory of the kings of RÔMÊ might be well known. For the kings of ETHIOPIA and the kings of RÔMÊ were brethren and held the Christian Faith. Now first of all they believed in an orthodox manner in the preaching of the Apostles up to [the time of] CONSTANTINE, and ’ĔLÊNÎ (HELENA) the Queen, who brought forth the wood of the Cross, and they (i.e., the kings of RÔMÊ) continued [to believe for] one hundred and thirty years.

And afterwards, SATAN, who hath been the enemy of man from of old, rose up, and seduced the people of the country of RÔMÊ, and they corrupted the Faith of CHRIST, and they introduced heresy into the Church of God by the mouth of NESTORIUS. And NESTORIUS, and ARIUS, and YABÂSÔ (?) were those into whose hearts he cast the same jealousy as he had cast into the heart of CAIN to slay his brother ABEL. In like manner did their father the Devil, the enemy of righteousness and the hater of good, cast jealousy, even as DAVID saith, "They speak violence in the heights of heaven, and set their mouths in the heavens, and their tongue waggeth on the earth."1 And those same men who know not whence they came, and know not whither they are going, revile their Creator with their tongues, and blaspheme His glory, while He is God, the Word of the Lord. He came down from the throne of His Godhead, and put on the body of ADAM, and He is God the Word. And in that body He was crucified so that He might redeem ADAM in his iniquity, and He went up into the heavens, and sat upon the throne of His Godhead in that body, which He had taken. And He shall come again in glory to judge the living and the dead, and shall reward every man according to his work, for ever and ever. Amen.

And we believe thus and we adore the Holy Trinity. And those who do not believe thus are excommunicated p. 165 by the Word of God, the King of heaven and earth, both in this world and in that world which is to come. And we are strong in the Orthodox Faith which the Fathers the Apostles have delivered unto us, the Faith of the Church. And thus ETHIOPIA continued to abide in her Faith until the coming of our Lord JESUS CHRIST, to Whom be glory forever and ever. Amen.

Footnotes

p. 164

1 Psalm lxxiii. 8, 9.
[/quote]

I have been reading the back and forth argument. But hope you all can reason on this scripture: John 3:13.

Thanks.

kilisi:
I have been reading the back and forth argument. But hope you all can reason on this scripture: John 3:13.

Thanks.

It means Jesus/Imanuel is the only one who can ascend into heaven because from thence he came...

kilisi:
I have been reading the back and forth argument. But hope you all can reason on this scripture: John 3:13.

Thanks.

Before the ascension.. Heaven was not Open... the righteous dead went to "Abraham's bosom", see luke 16, while the Wicked went to sheoul.
But when Jesus ascended after his resurrection, He open the door to all the righteous dead..

8 Therefore it is said, “When he ascended on high he led a host of captives,
and he gave gifts to men.”

Here's another thing to ponder, if no one else has ever ascended, then where did the chariots of fire take Elijah to? (2 kings 2:12)