sainty2k3:


You are doing a great Job. Thank you . many Nigerians ,some Doctors inclusive are too lazy to research those fact, they rather come here and say it is not possible.

No pls thank you for creating a thread on this. I have had at least 5 cases on this and when I researched, it became clear.
I wish we can reach out to more people and our laboratories too so that these cases can be addressed amicably

peacettw:


You should try Google then. You will be amazed the things I've found on my own on that platform. We simply can't know it all dear

pls we shd know wat ever we seein Google are posted by pple like u AND i
Here's is a chart of AA and AS
Dis Was how I was taught in school

ChelseaDr:
Op thanks for this because a lot of people may not know this.

It is also important to note that although Sβ-Thalasaemia and Hb SS are both forms of Sickle cell disease, they are completely two different disease conditions with far-reaching impact on the person suffering from them.

While Hb SS is as a result of defect in the quality of haemoglobin, Sβ-thalasaemia is as a result of the quantity of haemoglobins present and to diagnose this one needs quantitative analysis of the haemoglobin chains whereas qualitative analysis is enough to diagnose SS which electrophoresis does.

Again, thank you.
Cheers!!

this is just trying to play on our intelligence using medical jargon. That is how u mislead people into going into marriages based on mathematical jargon and ignoring medical advice and thereby giving more SS kids that deserves better......

joyandfaith:


I know. I still maintain that op is misleading. no haematogist will label a child SS when parents are AA and AS. more questions need to be asked. that is standard practice. in above case, genetic testing or chromatography could solve the problem.medical diagnosis does not stop in bench. besides, we disagree with op heading. there is discordant between heading and explanation given by op. even explanation is shallow and not appropriate for non-health workers.
you are asked me to read about thal? you must be kidding or joking. if you want info on thal even molecular pathogrnesis, newer diagnostic methods, pls open another thread. you guys know few things and start spitting meconium. he should change the heading to " MEDICAL LABORATORIES IN NIGERIA CAN MISDIAGNOSE AA or AS as SS''. it would make sense.

Thank you ma am

sod09:
pls we shd know wat ever we seein Google are posted by pple like u AND i
Here's is a chart of AA and AS
Dis Was how I was taught in school

Redraw d chart but this time with AA and AC. Thanks

sainty2k3:
YES it is not impossible, couples that are AA/AS can give birth to SS , this is how
1. let me differentiate between haemoglobin genotype and haemoglobin phenotype
To get a particular GENOTYPE you have to do a genetic testing or use two or more of the screening test (the conventional electrophoresis that we do + HPLC or other similar test) to confirm the true genotype while hb PHENOTYPE is the appearance /characteristics of an individual haemoglobin on conventional electrophoresis which we loosely refer to as GENOTYPE
Most times when we call ourselves AA,SS,AS we are actually referring to our Haemoglogin PHENOTYPE and NOT GENOTYPE, as most of us don’t do genetic tests, all we do is haemoglobin electrophoresis
2. lets explain the concept of thalasemic trait. Thalassemias are quantitative defect of haemoglobin which means some one can be AA but the one or both A in this person is is absent otherwise known as thalassemia minor and major respectively. If such person run haemoglobin Electrophoresis( the test that we always loosely regard to as genotype) only A band will be seen and such a person will be regarded as AA. But they are also prone to anaemias and some certain abnormal features in the blood depending on the degree in the reduction in the defective A . such individuals can be Aβ-Thalassaemia(otherwise known as thalassaemic trait) if one of the’ A gene’ is normal, or β-Thalassaemia major if both are affected
3. lets merge the two concepts above and form AND SEE THE DIFFERENT PHENOTYPE THAT EXIST AND THE POSSIBLE CORRESPONDING GENOTYPE
If PHENOTYPE is AA the likely GENOTYPES will be AA , Aβ-Thalassaemia
If PHENOTYPE is SS the likely GENOTYPES will be SS, Sβ-Thalassaemia (MEANING THE OTHER ‘A’ THAT WOULD HAVE MADE THIS AN ‘AS’ IS TOTALLY ABSENT) Others might include SD,SG etc though these are very rare
If PHENOTYPE is AS the likely GENOTYPES will be SA (NOTE – ‘S’ COMES BEFORE ‘A’ BECAUSE THE A IS THALASSAEMIC, THOUGH NOT TOTALLY ABSENT AS THE ONE ABOVE ,IT IS SUSBSTANTIALLY REDUCE), or truely AS
4. Lets assume this our hypothetical couple have Hb eleterophoresis done and was told that the genotype of partner 1 is AA, and that of partner 2 is AS ,but the one that is called AA is actually Aβ-Thalassaemia as ealier mentioned. There possible offspring include
I. AA, If the child inherit the normal A from partner 1 and another normal A from partner 2
II. Aβ-Thalassaemia ,If the child inherit β-Thalassaemic A from the partner 1 and normal A from partner 2
III. AS,If the child inherit normal A from partner 1 and S from patner 2
IV. Sβ-Thalassaemia If the child inherit β-Thalassaemic A from partner 1 and S from partner 2
Note that scenario I above will show AA on Hb electrophoresis, scenario ii will show AA on electrophoresis, scenario iii will show AS on electrophoresis and scenario iv will show SS on electrophoresis
I have tried to simplify the medical terms but if you still have a doubt or clarification ask and I will try to shed more light, as much as I can.

#a long post but worth reading
OP lets shine more light on what Sickle cell Hemoglobin is: HbSS means the hemoglobin has on of the amino acid of its protein component switched i.e valine instead of glycine (this is molecular biology/genetics). This makes the red blood cell (RBC) to be abnormally shaped i.e it is sickled hence it cant carry the normal amount of oxygen normal RBC carry, and it has a shorter half life (<<120 days). This explains some of the symptoms of sickle cell disease. On the Hb electrophoresis the Hb S band is seen in sickle cell. (Explaining the concept of electrophoresis is another write up on its own but it uses the concept of chromotography (basic chemistry).

In Thalassemias, we have inadequate globin chains that make up hemiglobin (e.g HbAA is two alpha and two beta chains, but in thalassemia, you have say two alpha and one beta or two alpha and no beta). This globin chains carry different genetic information (this is like computer coding). In thalassemia, the symptoms are different, likewise what you see on electrophoresis cause you are dealing with inadequate globin chain. In sickle cell, its about abnormal globin chain (one is an issue of quantity the other an issue of quality).

Thalassemia and sickle cell are two different disease, hence in genetic inheritance the offspring inherit different disesase.

If HbA (beta thalessemia for instance) marries HbAS we have HbS/ß-thalassemia heterozygote: they have some mild degree of sickle cell features (like in sickle cell trait HbAS but this is different from SS. It's rare though and not commonly seen in our part of the world. This Thalassemia is commoner in Mediterranean. The kind you see in Africans won't give you a sickle picture.

If AA marries AS they won't have SS (except a lab error if the AA was actually AS). AA is different from A (actually HbA²).

[quote author=kindkingsley post=58500317]Please can blood group A+(positive) Father and 0+(positive) Mother give birth to A-(negative) Son blood group?



Yes its possible, but maybe not here on this thread, o can do a post on blood group, or you Send me a pm

Once you say HbAA, you are saying that qualitatively and quantitatively the Hemoglobin chains are okay.

A+ mother marrying O+ father giving birth to A- child is possible if one of the parent is heterozygote or both are i.e Rh+Rh- in one of the parent or both parents.

Op you have to check your stuffs over again and again.
There is a difference between Sickle Cell Disease(common in Sub-Saharan Africa) and Thalassemias(commonly seen in the Mediterranean region including Spain, Portugal, Italy etc).
The former has to do with substitution of amino acids while the later has missing amino acids.
In fact, from the basic integrated science of JSS 2 couple with AA and AS can never have SS offspring.
Go back and dust your book over again and again.

OP.....change the heading oooooooooooooo!

peacettw:
I agree with the op 110%. Was so excited to see the topic believing that finally people will understand that if an 'ss' child is born to a couple with as and aa, it won't readily be assumed to be infidelity. You can imagine my surprise and disappointment from 'colleagues' who failed to understand this basic concept.


Note: Apologies to the mod but in order to help spread the word, I have taken it upon myself to mention and reply to as much people as I can individually why this is possible in our environment. This is just too important t to ignore. Lives and marriages gave been destroyed in the past and I am only trying to ameliorate that.

Thanks for your understanding.

Op you see the problem?

Ghokes:
Op you have to check your stuffs over again and again.
There is a difference between Sickle Cell Disease(common in Sub-Saharan Africa) and Thalassemias(commonly seen in the Mediterranean region including Spain, Portugal, Italy etc).
The former has to do with substitution of amino acids while the later has missing amino acids.
In fact, from the basic integrated science of JSS 2 couple with AA and AS can never have SS offspring.
Go back and dust your book over again and again.

Thalassemia may be rare here but it does exist, I have sewn and I believe some other people here have seen too. U can't compare basic integrated science to medical knowledge

anyebedgreat:
No way. This is how we know it and this is how it works.
AA + AA = AA, AA, AA, AA
AA + AS = AA, AS, AA, AS
AA + SS = AS, AS, AS, AS
AA + AC = AA, AA, AA, AC
AS + AS = AA, AS, AS, SS
AS + SS = AS, SS, SS, SS
AS + AC = AA, AC, AS,SS
SS + SS = SS, SS, SS, SS
AC + SS = AS, AS, SS, SS
AC + AC = AA, AC, AC, SS

Abeg which one be AC... My biology teacher need to refund me be that... Shoo.

dreshemokha:
Op. Genetics and health is not mathematics as you just calculated.
And yes it is totally IMPOSSIBLE, a marriage between AA and AS can NEVER produce SS.
Moreover, there is no relationship in inheritance between sickle cell diseases and thalassemias.


Am a doctor with a health blog. Check my signature and visit my blog for robust health info and publications.

Thank you doctor in the house. Everybody coming up with analysis and mathematical calculations to proof wrong what has been proven over years. Then it is also possible for SS & SS to give birth to AA, Yes spiritually GOD is able to do anything... but medically and mathematically, Biko I no gree

sainty2k3, I could not go through all 11 pages of this thread but I know have been reminded that an AA and AS couple can NEVER have an SS offspring.

It is IMPOSSIBLE

Your analogy of thalassemias where the β-thal coexists with the A gene is flawed because the patient's genotype is now Aβ, not AA as you erroneously stated

A laboratory could record AA as the genotype, but the patient is actually Aβ. as such an Aβ and AS couple can NEVER have an SS offspring.

Exclude clerical errors from the laboratory, that's the source of confusion

anyebedgreat:
No way. This is how we know it and this is how it works.
AA + AA = AA, AA, AA, AA
AA + AS = AA, AS, AA, AS
AA + SS = AS, AS, AS, AS
AA + AC = AA, AA, AA, AC
AS + AS = AA, AS, AS, SS
AS + SS = AS, SS, SS, SS
AS + AC = AA, AC, AS,SS
SS + SS = SS, SS, SS, SS
AC + SS = AS, AS, SS, SS
AC + AC = AA, AC, AC, SS

This is wrong, check the last two permutations.

Hi there, what about AC to AA

paulverma:


Abeg which one be AC... My biology teacher need to refund me be that... Shoo.

lol...I am AC my broda,,,,there are lot of oda Genotype out there not common.

peacettw:


To help explain further, our people wrongly believe that its only ss that is Sickle cell disease. In truth, there are many 'combinations' like SC, SB-thal, SD punjab etc. (notice they all have one thing in common, at least one S in the combination)

Now let's put our heads together, how do you think people get these other types? ....
Ans: exactly the same way you get the ss.

So, if you are AS and get married to AC, AB-thal, or Ad punjab, u stand a risk of getting a child with Sickle cell disease. It's that simple.

Another question... How many of our labs here in Nigeria do you think can correctly detect AC, AB-thal, or Ad punjab?
Ans: Basically a few. I saw my first SC in a px 2 years ago in a 17 year old who was told her whole life that she was AS.
Most labs can't pick up the C, b thal or d punjab, once they see an A with no S, they automatically assume it to be AA but in truth might actually be AC, AB-thal, or Ad punjab.

In essence, it is possible for 'AA' (wc we know might actually be AC, AB-thal, or Ad punjab) to get married to AS and give birth to SC, SB-thal, SD punjab.. (wc again our labs will incorrectly call SS since they lack the proper equip to detect the C, b thal or d punjab.


I hope I have sufficiently cleared the air. Now, please go and spread the word and stop castigating that poor innocent woman.

Who is castigating who? I am AA and my Bae is AS... I still don't believe this shiit

BABSIN:

This is wrong, check the last two permutations.

C and S gives sickle cell. Likewise Cand C

sainty2k3:

That's the issue, how many people in Nigeria use genetic studies or HPLC to find out there HB genotype . all people do is HB electrophoresis and say they are AA ,AS or SS and those are the people my topic refers to, note that in the topic I didn't say that's their genotype. that's the phenotype, they wrongly refer to it as genotype.

So are you advising if I should go to a lab I should ask to check my phenotype? and besides why is it not commonly ask? I mean we all grew up and are taught and read about checking genotype between intending couples. And from a lay man, I am still confused? I am AC, if should check my Phenotype would it be different?

sainty2k3:
you are right common things occurs commonly, but a friend did a research on thalassemia prevalence in Nigeria ,not sure if he has published it though, but he found that thalassemia are not as uncommon as we think they are

I pointed out that I saw very few thalassemics, and a dr here with nelsk Monica quickly attacked me that it can't be found in Nigeria, he then came back to ask even though how many, when he found out he was wrong, instead of owning up to his mistake. I already said I saw a few, so why come and ask how many again. Nigerian doctors cause their problems with other health workers, and are still the first to cry foul when the fire ignites.

medically op is wrong but if God involves then its possible

The doctors on this forum should not unduly dish out half truths or outright lies here. What you people read is about beta thalassemia trait. If a beta Thalassemia trait(AB) marries a sicke carrier (AS), then they can have a child with *Sickle Beta Thalassemia* (SB) which MANIFEST like SS (but it is still NOT SS. Don't confuse people here.

peacettw:

To help explain further, our people wrongly believe that its only ss that is Sickle cell disease. In truth, there are many 'combinations' like SC, SB-thal, SD punjab etc. (notice they all have one thing in common, at least one S in the combination)

Now let's put our heads together, how do you think people get these other types? ....
Ans: exactly the same way you get the ss.

So, if you are AS and get married to AC, AB-thal, or Ad punjab, u stand a risk of getting a child with Sickle cell disease. It's that simple.

Another question... How many of our labs here in Nigeria do you think can correctly detect AC, AB-thal, or Ad punjab?
Ans: Basically a few. I saw my first SC in a px 2 years ago in a 17 year old who was told her whole life that she was AS.
Most labs can't pick up the C, b thal or d punjab, once they see an A with no S, they automatically assume it to be AA but in truth might actually be AC, AB-thal, or Ad punjab.

In essence, it is possible for 'AA' (wc we know might actually be AC, AB-thal, or Ad punjab) to get married to AS and give birth to SC, SB-thal, SD punjab.. (wc again our labs will incorrectly call SS since they lack the proper equip to detect the C, b thal or d punjab.


I hope I have sufficiently cleared the air. Now, please go and spread the word and stop castigating that poor innocent woman.

U don't educate someone who is already aware. The Mendelian cross have been taught right from elementary biology. What the caption says is slightly deceptive, AA marrying AS in the true sense of it would not yield SS but for mutation.

Welcomme:
Who is castigating who? I am AA and my Bae is AS... I still don't believe this shiit

Don't mind the lady

[quote author=sainty2k3 post=58465800]YES it is not impossible, couples that are AA/AS can give birth to SS , this is how
1. let me differentiate between haemoglobin genotype and haemoglobin phenotype
To get a particular GENOTYPE you have to do a genetic testing or use two or more of the screening test (the conventional electrophoresis that we do + HPLC or other similar test) to confirm the true genotype while hb PHENOTYPE is the appearance /characteristics of an individual haemoglobin on conventional electrophoresis which we loosely refer to as GENOTYPE
Most times when we call ourselves AA,SS,AS we are actually referring to our Haemoglogin PHENOTYPE and NOT GENOTYPE, as most of us don’t do genetic tests, all we do is haemoglobin electrophoresis
2. lets explain the concept of thalasemic trait. Thalassemias are quantitative defect of haemoglobin which means some one can be AA but the one or both A in this person is is absent otherwise known as thalassemia minor and major respectively. If such person run haemoglobin Electrophoresis( the test that we always loosely regard to as genotype) only A band will be seen and such a person will be regarded as AA. But they are also prone to anaemias and some certain abnormal features in the blood depending on the degree in the reduction in the defective A . such individuals can be Aβ-Thalassaemia(otherwise known as thalassaemic trait) if one of the’ A gene’ is normal, or β-Thalassaemia major if both are affected
3. lets merge the two concepts above and form AND SEE THE DIFFERENT PHENOTYPE THAT EXIST AND THE POSSIBLE CORRESPONDING GENOTYPE
If PHENOTYPE is AA the likely GENOTYPES will be AA , Aβ-Thalassaemia
If PHENOTYPE is SS the likely GENOTYPES will be SS, Sβ-Thalassaemia (MEANING THE OTHER ‘A’ THAT WOULD HAVE MADE THIS AN ‘AS’ IS TOTALLY ABSENT) Others might include SD,SG etc though these are very rare
If PHENOTYPE is AS the likely GENOTYPES will be SA (NOTE – ‘S’ COMES BEFORE ‘A’ BECAUSE THE A IS THALASSAEMIC, THOUGH NOT TOTALLY ABSENT AS THE ONE ABOVE ,IT IS SUSBSTANTIALLY REDUCE), or truely AS
4. Lets assume this our hypothetical couple have Hb eleterophoresis done and was told that the genotype of partner 1 is AA, and that of partner 2 is AS ,but the one that is called AA is actually Aβ-Thalassaemia as ealier mentioned. There possible offspring include
I. AA, If the child inherit the normal A from partner 1 and another normal A from partner 2
II. Aβ-Thalassaemia ,If the child inherit β-Thalassaemic A from the partner 1 and normal A from partner 2
III. AS,If the child inherit normal A from partner 1 and S from patner 2
IV. Sβ-Thalassaemia If the child inherit β-Thalassaemic A from partner 1 and S from partner 2
Note that scenario I above will show AA on Hb electrophoresis, scenario ii will show AA on electrophoresis, scenario iii will show AS on electrophoresis and scenario iv will show SS on electrophoresis
I have tried to simplify the medical terms but if you still have a doubt or clarification ask and I will try to shed more light, as much as I can.
[/quit
It impossible because thalassemia and Sickle cell ( plus sickle cell anaemia)are different thing...what explains the never in medicine is mutation which is very rare

Nothing is impossible in modern technology. After all they used to tell us that mono pause starts from 40, 45 yrs and above. But women these days do conceive even at 55 and above without IVF.

The OP got it completely wrong, I'm a doctor and I'm already deep in my residency program, and I can categorically tell you, its very wrong for you to come up with this theory and also misleading people on an issue that has been a major setback for us.
Genotype is the genetic makeup , phenotype is the expression, though phynotypic expression of a gene can be modified by several factors, gene is the most important of them.
AS , AA and SS are genes, and the are inherited according to the Mendelian theory ( for the layman), so you can't have a child with SS gene if you don't have the S GENE abnitio.
And thalassemic gene is completely different set of genes.

NwaAmaikpe:


Yes, It Is Not Impossible. 'AA' Can Marry 'AS' And Give Birth To 'SS'

Of course it is possible.

That 'AA' is married to an 'AS' does not mean that
the 'AS' can not shag another 'AS' on the side and bring in a bastard 'SS'

---

Please don't believe this nonsense... Very soon, one confused scientist will bring up a theory claiming it is possible for paternity tests to come back negative when you are truly the father.

One of the rare times you made sense.

As far as I know, Thalassemia and Sickle cell are two unrelated diseases, although their presentations can be similar.