dapsyra:

. . .

You're talking trash . . .When I was in school, and I remember if a lecturer threw a question across . . .
some "smart-ass" would lift a definition or theory verbatim from the internet without understanding how stuffs work . . .
Your case is akin to such . . . Verily, verily, I say unto you . . . You're far from a being a Physicist . . .

Court !!!!

honestly speaking, some people shouldn't be in this forum...

that someone uses solar system doesn't really make the person mature.

you read some response and you discover that If this were to be a face to face scenario, punches will actually fly.

Please, let's be mature and maintain the integrity of this forum
Thanks

na wa o!!!

all this big grammar on "potentiometer" I wish someone would
dash me 4 units of 300Watts panel to do a simple proteus simulation on this topic.

The device is basically a three legged variable resistor. A reference or signal sample voltage is fed across two of its legs
while the third leg(make una no think bad thing o) can be adjusted to deliver a fraction of this voltage.

Depending on a manufacturer's design it can be used to change the characteristics of an electronic appliance
e.g volume control knob on old black and white TV. some inverters' output voltage can also be adjusted.

They are best left alone unless you have some knowledge of the board.

Please, I want to actually clarify only one part!

VOLTAGE is a force that can actually be measured.
VOLT is actually the unit of that measurement...

volt is not loosely called voltage, as someone stated. And YES, it is correct to say "measure the battery voltage".

As a matter of fact, voltage is also called "Electrical force" or "Electrical pressure "

can you say "measure the pressure" of something? YES. and the unit of pressure is Psi or bar or pa

So, when you measure the PRESSURE of a pump (pressure source), you get, say, 10psi or 50psi.
Invariably, when you measure the VOLTAGE of a battery (voltage source), you get, say 12volt or 24volt. (the volt being abbreviated as "v" hence 12v or 24v) .

NB: psi means Pounds per Square Inch

Can't actually fold my hands and watch my discipline dragged on the mud for argument sake.

This is not just my PERSONAL OPINION; it is the ENGINEERING OPINION

cheers!!!

^^ Well, your own school of thought, I might consider . .

My school of thought says its archaic (pre - Edison age) to follow your school of thought . .

No wonder we got this far and couldn't even produce pencils . . .

Alessandro Volta would spanked a lot of y'all on this forum . . .

I repeat . . Voltage is a loose term; EMF is a more specific term

mcTrinity:
honestly speaking, some people shouldn't be in this forum...

that someone uses solar system doesn't really make the person mature.

you read some response and you discover that If this were to be a face to face scenario, punches will actually fly.

Please, let's be mature and maintain the integrity of this forum
Thanks

You wouldnt even dare be half the man that I am
So shut up please !!!
I am literally begging you to please do!

It's a forum where people share knowledge and experience... No one knows it all...

Asking people to Shut up ahaha...

This makavele dude, you for fit to be motor park chairman i swear!
Barking down everyone...lol

Take a break, no burst blood vessel on top potentiometer.

*jesuuu so voltage is now a loose term...chaiiiiiii
*a potentiometer is now express as potentio-meter.....hmmm
*now adjusting the potentiometer will only
increase or decrease the accuracy of the
measurement.....ah ahhh? u mean in a souer smart charger
i know alot of things definitely i still have oga at the top o..... but when you are totally off track and then you find someone to guide you probably to correct your mistakes ,you don't need to abuse anyone even if you don't agree to what they say....... we don't need to be ignorant,we cannot be perfect
Everybody has come to gain knowledge here,u gain nothing by abusing someone just to show you are right...please let the issue be dissolve abeg us all

Dam5reey:
It's a forum where people share knowledge and experience... No one knows it all...

Asking people to Shut up ahaha...

There are three kinds of ppl on this thread
those i would ignore; those i would argue with and learn from and those i would tell to outrightly
shut up !!!
Go figure !!!

For peace to reign , let somebody volunteer a souer charger. My battery absorb voltage is 14.1v
Let somebody adjust it “as easy as it is” to 14.1v absorb and 13.5v float.
I promise to buy back that souer charger for triple the market price.

And for that, the person has to just open it up, twist a potentiometer with a scewdriver, close it back up and bring it here!!!

End of discussion !!!!

Barezzi:
This makavele dude, you for fit to be motor park chairman i swear!
Barking down everyone...lol

Take a break, no burst blood vessel on top potentiometer.

You remember the lyrics to that M.I.’s number: Safe ?

foonshur:

I use the "inverter v/gencool" aircon by LG

I have both LG Dual cool ( new 2017 launch) and Daikin FTX35A Found Daikin to be more efficient and quite but LG is 40 % in cooling.

I have not found any other brand ACsS in the market or models which are inverter based so all the marketing claims of energy efficiency is taken with a pinch of salt
http://www.lg.com/africa/split-air-conditioners/lg-BS-Q186K3A1
https://www.deluxe.com.ng/air-conditioner/daikin-split-air-conditioner-15hp-ftv-35av1


Also be aware that all that efficiency gain comes at reduced cooling performance when in Gen mode ( LG) or Eco Mode ( Daikin) and works best in enclosed spaces such as office room or bedroom and not for open parlours with lot of Air

chris81964:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1KZCF6bgEg

Hello Doc!
How can I get those busbars you have installed on the battery wooden cage?

pranil:


I have both LG Dual cool ( new 2017 launch) and Daikin FTX35A Found Daikin to be more efficient and quite but LG is 40 % in cooling.

I have not found any other brand ACsS in the market or models which are inverter based so all the marketing claims of energy efficiency is taken with a pinch of salt
http://www.lg.com/africa/split-air-conditioners/lg-BS-Q186K3A1
https://www.deluxe.com.ng/air-conditioner/daikin-split-air-conditioner-15hp-ftv-35av1


Also be aware that all that efficiency gain comes at reduced cooling performance when in Gen mode ( LG) or Eco Mode ( Daikin) and works best in enclosed spaces such as office room or bedroom and not for open parlours with lot of Air

You are very correct with the last paragraph.

Oshomo12:


Hello Doc!
How can I get those busbars you have installed on the battery wooden cage?

Amazon.com
I think they're made by Blue Sea systems.

Barezzi:

Amazon.com
I think they're made by Blue Sea systems.

Thanks for the direction, but getting them down is the issue.

makavele:
And that thing about voltage headroom . . . has only been discussed as user preference . . .
There is no hard fact or evidence that backs it up 100% . . . it is not etched in stone . . .
You can as well have a VOC of 250V on a 12V battery bank . . .
An MPPT controller will still do the conversion and downsizing very well . . .
There would be losses of course, same for a 45V Voc too . . . There will always be losses in the system.

So I've decided to return my hybrid inverter to get a MustPower 3kva and Fangpusun 100/50 MPPT controller. My calculations show that whether i do 2x2 or 1x4 for four 300W panels, the resulting current output will still be the same for the charge controller. Is this correct?

sinistrian:


So I've decided to return my hybrid inverter to get a MustPower 3kva and Fangpusun 100/50 MPPT controller. My calculations show that whether i do 2x2 or 1x4 for four 300W panels, the resulting current output will still be the same for the charge controller. Is this correct?

The current would vary based on panel arrangement but the resulting power output would be close; very close !
At that point, i take it to b negligible !

I hope someone is not mistaking a variable resistor for a potentiometer.

I am trying to refresh my memory on the history and original issues around this discussion.

If I recall correctly, you had an hybrid inverter whose solar input was capped at 60vdc and this limited your ability to do 2x2 series config with your 300w panels and reap MPPT benefits yes?

If you buy an MPPT controller now and retain your 24v nominal battery setup, it will make a very big difference whether you do 2x2 series config for your 300w panels (you will reap MPPT benefits because you have some voltage headroom) or you do 1x4 parallel config (if you do 1x4 parallel config with an MPPT controller while retaining 24v nominal battery bank, you leave no voltage headroom and MAY get poor results even worse than PWM)

MPPT can only provide battery 'boost' during the bulk phase of charging when there is some 'voltage headroom' i.e. excess panel voltage (excess voltage means panel voltage higher than the voltage that is required to charge your batteries) that can be converted into useful battery charging current.

Summary is you need a minimum of 2x2 series config for your 300w panels if you want to use an MPPT controller with a 24v nominal battery bank.

You also have to consider if you are going to make any upgrades in the near future - it might be better to go for an MPPT with 150vdc cap so that you have some leeway for future upgrades.

Be mindful also that the MustPower brands I have tested have a high idle consumption between 80-130watts when idle and internal self consumption of 40-60watts and sometimes higher while powering loads - if your inverter runs 24hours a day, 1.2kw (assuming 50watt average self consumption) will be consumed by the inverter's internal components just to power your loads and you have just 2 pieces of 12v 200ah batteries making about 4.8kw battery storage - a whopping 25% of your battery bank capacity will be consumed by the inverter essentially for nothing.

Be sure to go along with a DC clamp meter or other reliable means of verifying the inverter self consumption before purchase.

sinistrian:


So I've decided to return my hybrid inverter to get a MustPower 3kva and Fangpusun 100/50 MPPT controller. My calculations show that whether i do 2x2 or 1x4 for four 300W panels, the resulting current output will still be the same for the charge controller. Is this correct?

Barezzi:

Amazon.com
I think they're made by Blue Sea systems.

You garrit !!!

NiyiOmoIyunade:
I am trying to refresh my memory on the history and original issues around this discussion.

If I recall correctly, you had an hybrid inverter whose solar input was capped at 60vdc and this limited your ability to do 2x2 series config with your 300w panels and reap MPPT benefits yes?

If you buy an MPPT controller now and retain your 24v nominal battery voltage, it will make a very big difference whether you do 2x2 series config for your 300w panels (you will reap MPPT benefits because you have some voltage headroom) or you do 1x4 parallel config (if you do this with an MPPT controller while retaining 24v nominal battery bank, you leave no voltage headroom and MAY get poor results even worse than PWM)

MPPT can only provide battery 'boost' during the bulk phase of charging when there is some 'voltage headroom' i.e. excess panel voltage (excess voltage means panel voltage higher than the voltage that is required to charge your batteries) that can be converted into useful battery charging current.

Summary is you need a minimum of 2x2 series config for your 300w panels if you want to use an MPPT controller with a 24v nominal battery bank

You also have to consider if you are going to make any upgrades in the near future - it might be better to go for an MPPT with 150vdc cap so that you have some leeway for future upgrades.

Nice post but it seems you are forgetting something, The current isnt constant. If he does 1 x 4 on the 24V battery bank, the voltage output os lower for headroom but the current is now higher, so practically almost the same thing.

If he does 2 x 2 , the current is lower, voltage goes up and excess is converted to current when the voltage is stepped down to battery bank’s voltage.

By the laws of conservation of energy, we get the same results whether by 2 x 2 or 1 x 4 or 4 x 1
The result is the power output in the end.

The only reason why more voltage is preffered
as headroom over higher current is to reduce losses in the wires and for safety purposes.

But thats when the installation is sizeable, for an an entry installation as his; the losses are negligible as long as he uses the same mppt in both scenarios !

Here is some literature I got in my mail from Morningstar Corp RE: the reliability of their Morningstar Charge Controllers - it's a bit of a long read so not for the faint hearted

Just to broaden the knowledge base

A Conversation with Bill Mellema, Director of Engineering at Morningstar Corp

October 21, 2016

I sat down with Bill at the recent Solar Power International exhibition to understand more about what Morningstar means by “reliability”. Having distributed solar products in Africa for more than 15 years, I know which manufacturers tend to last and which ones fail. Morningstar being very much in the lasting category, I was interested to hear Bill’s thoughts on why his products last so long.

“From an engineering perspective a lot of it comes down to having power electronics expertise,” said Bill. “We are a power electronics company first. Our conversations around Morningstar are about transients, stability, system response….we think about how the product will behave in the real world when it is subject to all sorts of inputs and split second changes in voltages and current. Our passion is elegant power electronics design.”

Selection of components is important, but reliability is mostly about how well the software controls the hardware. It really comes down to how fast the device can respond to inputs. Battery and PV voltage and current can change in split seconds and the power electronics have to be able to respond fast enough. Most of us do not see these dramatic swings going on within our controllers and inverters because we don’t have the scopes and sophisticated monitors that could show us what is actually happening.

“Lots of quirky things can happen” says Bill. “When we talk about control, we are talking about orchestrating the power control devices in the system and responding instantaneously.”

Processor utilization is another important priority. The Morningstar software team develops software architectures that extract the maximum performance possible from the chosen processor. This optimizes the cost to performance ratio and allows snappy power electronics control; even in modest microprocessors commonly used in smaller controllers and inverters.
So how does this software and design affect Morningstar products in real life? For example, the Tristar PWM controllers became instant successes partly because they could survive where their common competitor could not. This is because the Tristar is so much faster at reacting to changes in inputs than the competitor. And compared to another famous competitor, the Tristar MPPT provides more power per day, because the competitor can’t keep a constant output and must drop and then recalibrate. A well-known inverter swings wildly when connected to a generator because it can’t control the incoming power fast enough. These problems are mostly down to software control and design, according to Bill.

He points out that hardware damage is very prevalent in our industry. But it doesn’t need to be that way. At Morningstar about 2 out of every 1,000 returned items actually have hardware failures . This is because of protections in the software and due to the quality and ratings of the hardware selected. Morningstar typically over-sizes components to leave a margin of error for users. “Speaking of design, thermal management is huge,” says Bill. “It seems to be an afterthought with some competing designs – heat-producing components are often buried deep in the case where the thermal path to ambient air is long or circuitous.”

The Morningstar design team strives to perfectly balance thermal, power electronic, mechanical, and DFM/DFA constraints to yield a highly functional and efficient product. Short thermal paths coupled with generous heat-sinking eliminate the need for forced convection solutions and improve product reliability. I asked whether being fan-less is part of the Morningstar doctrine. “We may use a fan someday” says Bill, “But we will never blow air across our boards.” He points out that blowing air brings dust, insects, corrosion and early hardware failure. Anyone who has had a PC in their home or office knows that after a few years the power supply fan gets clogged with dust, even in a relatively clean environment. Imagine how quickly things can go wrong in an off-grid environment.

Finally, Morningstar works hard to make their designs simple and elegant. This keeps the component count low and fewer components means lower overall MTBF (Mean Time Between Failure). Bill notes that board layout in power electronics is also key – one must think about inductance, creepage & clearance, power and signal routing, trace lengths, etc. Poor layout can lead to unpredictable glitches, excessive heating, and poor signal integrity. In short, there are thousands of design decisions and trade-offs that must be considered during development. The Morningstar team is able to leverage years of industry experience to market highly reliable products with peak performance.

kiekie1:
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Yachi solar panels

MONO-
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POLY-
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100w. N22,000
80w. N17,000

JOYSOLAR panels:
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260w mono. N45,000
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CANADIAN 340w Mono panels
340w. N84,000


Must Powerstar inverters (VIL series)

1000w 12v. N85,000
1500w 12v. N95,000
2000w 12v N110,000
3000w 24v. N150,000
4000w 48v. N220,000
5000w 48v. N250,000
6000w 48v. N280,000

EP ever 40a 12-24v mppt with MT50 ...N
EP Solar (i-tracer) 60amps mppt..... ....... N127,000

Pro solar roof mount set .....N35,000

DC voltage led meters .........N5,000

Prag products; 10-150kva (45-270vac input) servo or relay stabilizers
Discounts on all our Prag product online prices

DC breakers 10-63a ....N3-4k
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For peace to reign? Nobody is fighting with you! I know you are trying to be popular but this is not a celebrity forum, its a place for matured minds. I remember when i was little and we use to say 'shutup' 'gerrout' 'keep quite'....quite unfortunate i remember primary 3 behaviours in this forum.
If this belligerent behaviour continues, forumites can conveniently ignore your comments whether positive or negative,,,,be guided!

makavele:
For peace to reign , let somebody volunteer a souer charger. My battery absorb voltage is 14.1v
Let somebody adjust it “as easy as it is” to 14.1v absorb and 13.5v float.
I promise to buy back that souer charger for triple the market price.

And for that, the person has to just open it up, twist a potentiometer with a scewdriver, close it back up and bring it here!!!

End of discussion !!!!

Oshomo12:


Hello Doc!
How can I get those busbars you have installed on the battery wooden cage?

I imported them from the US. I might have a few that arrived in Nigeria last week.

Barezzi:

Amazon.com
I think they're made by Blue Sea systems.

They are not the Blue Sea units. I got them from VTE Warehouse.

JUO:
MIDNITE CLASSIC 150 MPPT, 150V 96A 300k
TriStar TS-MPPT-60 Charge Controller 280k
Flex max 80a fangpusun 170k
Flex max 60a fangpusun 145k
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60a-12/24v/36v/48v 100k.
70a-12/24v/36v/48v 120k
45a-12/24v/36v/48v 72k
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epever 30a+MT50 12/24v (CN) 50k
epever 30a 12/24v 46k
epever 40a 12/24v 60k
epever 60a 12/24/36/48v 140k
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Good day house, been following this thread for close to 3 years.
I have been using inverters since 2008, and in April last year i changed to my present inverter 3.5kva Exulted (Imported from China) 48v system with 4nr 200ah batteries (Bluegate).
I also bought 12nr Solar panels 300w (24v rated) which I haven’t bothered to mount because where I live we have stable light (18-21hrs light a day).
However these past few days there seems to be issues with the light (basically transformer related issues) which has given me need to install the solar panels.

My house is a 5 bedroom Duplex.
My house is wired with the entire lighting points and some 13amps sockets points (Television sockets) only connected to the inverter via a SPN DB
All my lights are expensive LED watt efficient bulbs.
All TVs are LED watt efficient.
No heavy appliance connected to the inverter except standing fans.

I intend to connect the 12 solar panels to generate 3600w, the Vmp is 31.8v and Imp 9.43A,
I intended to buy Outback 80A MPPT but it seems a lot of people on this forum don’t like outback.

Problem:
1. What rate of charge controller will be suitable for (12panels of 300w - 3600w, the Vmp is 31.8v and Imp 9.43A) to effectively charge a sytem of 48v/400amh (19200w). The CC should have allowance for possible increase in capacity of PV and can be hocked up to the internet.
2. My inverter charges with a current of 11.4A and 53.4v and it takes it almost 16hrs to fully charge the batteries (4 x 12v x 200amps – 48v/200amh) is this normal?
3. Are there inverters with higher charging current? (Coz my older analogue inverters had 20A charging - 24v)
4. Since I have PHED light for close to 21hrs a day will the batteries be overcharged (boil) constantly when I connect it to the solar system?
5. Where I intend to mount the panels there seems to be a shadow on it from 8am – 9am and from 3.30pm – 5pm would it be wise if I changed the intended location?

Thanks for ur responses.

hardywaltz:
. . .

Problem:
1. What rate of charge controller will be suitable for (12panels of 300w - 3600w, the Vmp is 31.8v and Imp 9.43A) to effectively charge a sytem of 48v/400amh (19200w). The CC should have allowance for possible increase in capacity of PV and can be hocked up to the internet.

The Outback 80A MPPT is good enough for your current panels . . . It will handle it like hot knife through butter.
I don't know about others; but for me I'd do a 3S4P configuration i.e 95.4V by 37.2A because the FlexMax 80 has a VOC of 150V
Next time though, please use the Panel's Voc n Isc for calculations to be on a safer side.

2. My inverter charges with a current of 11.4A and 53.4v and it takes it almost 16hrs to fully charge the batteries (4 x 12v x 200amps – 48v/200amh) is this normal?

The inverter supplies 48V nominal at 11.4A . . so charging a 200Ah battery that is fully depleted will take more than 200/11.4 hours = 17.5 hours (accounting for delayed absorb and float). Are you fully depleting your batteries? I guess no, since you have constant power, if so, then I am not sure the inverter is outputting 11.4A correctly.

3. Are there inverters with higher charging current? (Coz my older analogue inverters had 20A charging - 24v)

Yes, e.g. Felicity 5Kva 48V inverter charges at 30A; about 3 times faster than yours.

4. Since I have PHED light for close to 21hrs a day will the batteries be overcharged (boil) constantly when I connect it to the solar system?

No, once batteries are full, they will enter into float and can stay in float for 10 years; no shaking !!!

5. Where I intend to mount the panels there seems to be a shadow on it from 8am – 9am and from 3.30pm – 5pm would it be wise if I changed the intended location?

8am - 9am can be ignored, but 3.30pm to 5pm is way too long . . . If you continue with the same location, you would lose power noticeably; because shading tends to drag down the other panels in a string. Best look for another location.

Thanks for ur responses.

Responses in bold above