Mujtahida:

Sorry I've been offline. I see you quite understand the point Osho is making. Naming this energy is man's way of defining it, taming it, containing it but it's all futile cos like the line in one of the songs in sound of music 'how do you hold a moonbeam in your hand? That's what the religions have done and even more perniciously is the fact that they are not content with pinning a name on this energy, they also ascribe exclusivity to it hence the Abrahamic religions say their way is the only way, their scriptures the only revelation, heaven is meant only for them.

But they think like this because they've not looked beyond the fence that hedges them in. This energy looks at the world through our eyes, through our personalities, it becomes flesh through us. So I think you are right in saying it experiences humanity through us. This energy is at work in all men. We do not need to name it, we just need perhaps to open ourselves to it and enjoy its flow.

Yes, I quite agree with all you wrote up there.
It's good you are back.
I trust you are okay.

So, I'm in the part where he talks about the fallacy of a creator.

It got me thinking.

If I am a part of God, how then can I say he created me.
If I say that I and this energy are one, how then does it create me?

If I get my phone, and then tear it into shreds, and these tiny different parts have a life of their own, and perhaps, there is a core, or should I say, a bigger one from whence those other parts proceed, did it create them?

I think we need to learn to focus more on the very essence of our being. The body is skillfully and masterfully crafted, created if you may...

But I do not believe that this flesh is all there is to us...I think it is a vessel. The main man, the man which we should seek to live out through our bodies is not created. It is part of the cosmos which I believe we shall eventually be transmuted to.

About the book, I hope to go to my family house sometime next week.
Then I can share with you and others who might be interested.

Mujtahida:

Hahahaha hahahaha. I think central to understanding Osho is to the word flow. He believes that the god of the major religions is a dead god because he has no flow. His revelation is old, his prophets are in the past, he is a book God. I reject such a God too.

Long before I read Osho I realised that the god the religions worship is a dead god, an idol, a fiction. If he were a living God he won't need no book. Think:in which book is the sun written in? The sun needs no book. It shines. God as espoused by the churches and other religions is truly in the words of Nietzche dead, very dead.

But this does not mean that I deny god's existence. Let's raise an altar to the 'unknown God'. Religion lies when it claims it knows God.

Exactly.
Like him too, I proclaim that I am neither theist, nor atheist.

Did I just hear someone call ma Aggynostic?

Oh, soooo I see he attacks Christianity and leaves out Budha, but that one is partia nau

MizMyColi:


Exactly.
Like him too, I proclaim that I am neither theist, nor atheist.

Did I just hear someone call ma Aggynostic?

Oh, soooo I see he attacks Christianity and leaves out Budha, but that one is partia nau

Don't worry, read on you will see where he says that Buddha is the past. He doesn't attack Islam or Muhammed too as such.

Mujtahida:

Don't worry, read on you will see where he says that Buddha is the past. He doesn't attack Islam or Muhammed too as such.

Ohh, okay.

I think that he wants everyone to go in...
To go within.
Therein lies the answer.
He wants everyone to discover their own truth, as well as the truth.

MizMyColi:


Yes, I quite agree with all you wrote up there.
It's good you are back.
I trust you are okay.

So, I'm in the part where he talks about the fallacy of a creator.

It got me thinking.

If I am a part of God, how then can I say he created me.
If I say that I and this energy are one, how then does it create me?

If I get my phone, and then tear it into shreds, and these tiny different parts have a life of their own, and perhaps, there is a core, or should I say, a bigger one from whence those other parts proceed, did it create them?

I think we need to learn to focus more on the very essence of our being. The body is skillfully and masterfully crafted, created if you may...

But I do not believe that this flesh is all there is to us...I think it is a vessel. The main man, the man which we should seek to live out through our bodies is not created. It is part of the cosmos which I believe we shall eventually be transmuted to.

About the book, I hope to go to my family house sometime next week.
Then I can share with you and others who might be interested.

Yeah right now this is what I believe: I believe that man is one with God/energy/divine.

I firmly believe that we waste so much energy trying to figure out God. This words 'Man know thyself' was inscribed on the forecourt of the temple of Appollo at Delphi. Some writers say it was borrowed from Egypt where the fuller version states that 'man know thyself and thou shall come to know the gods'. To know ourselves is for me the highest purpose of our lives on earth. The Bible says that if you do not love your brother whom you can see, how can you love God whom you do not see. I borrow that logic and say that my concern is to know myself cos it is myself I see. How can I know God whom I do not see.
Johnnydon posted that when God and man finally met both fell on the ground and cried to one another 'my creator!'. Sounded funny but truth is funny too. We've been going crazy this last 2000 years trying to figure God out. Let it end. Like Alexander Pope says the proper study of Man is man.

Aight about the book. Please share. I like books that go against the grain.

Mujtahida:

Yeah right now this is what I believe: I believe that man is one with God/energy/divine.

I firmly believe that we waste so much energy trying to figure out God. This words 'Man know thyself' was inscribed on the forecourt of the temple of Appollo at Delphi. Some writers say it was borrowed from Egypt where the fuller version states that 'man know thyself and thou shall come to know the gods'. To know ourselves is for me the highest purpose of our lives on earth. The Bible says that if you do not love your brother whom you can see, how can you love God whom you do not see. I borrow that logic and say that my concern is to know myself cos it is myself I see. How can I know God whom I do not see.

Aight about the book. Please share. I like books that go against the grain.

Mehnnnn....stuff you said there.
Trying to figure it out would make my head spin again
Lol

Let me try to continue with the book.

Edited below

Mujtahida:

That's just it MizMyColi. Let everyone discover the truth within their souls. For godsakes scientists say that our brains are differently wired, our pulse rate and heartbeat is different, our fingerprints and hair strands are different. This is how finely unique we are. I should not live by Abraham's truth or even the truth by Jesus. I tried it. It felt artificial. My own truth lies at the core of my being. The task of any spiritual teacher is to urge people to get themselves grounded in the truth that is within them. It's an error to press my life to fit into another's truth. No ooo. I must be free. Let each my find the promise of God deep within his soul. This is the only true guarantee for freedom. So long as we continue to live our lives based on the truth of another man we will forever remain stunted, spiritually immature beings

So let's grow then


Meditation, Meditation, Meditation.
That's the way to go.
To find God, you have to lose God...completely.

MizMyColi:


Ohh, okay.

I think that he wants everyone to go in...
To go within.
Therein lies the answer.
He wants everyone to discover their own truth, as well as the truth.

That's just it MizMyColi. Let everyone discover the truth within their souls. For godsakes scientists say that our brains are differently wired, our pulse rate and heartbeat is different, our fingerprints and hair strands are different. This is how finely unique we are. I should not live by Abraham's truth or even the truth by Jesus. I tried it. It felt artificial. My own truth lies at the core of my being. The task of any spiritual teacher is to first remind people that truth is inside them, second urge people to get themselves grounded in that truth that is within them and thirdly share their personalities as it has been affected by the truth not necessarily sharing the truth.
It's an error to press my life to fit into another's truth. No ooo. I must be free. Let each man find the promise of God deep within his soul. This is the only true guarantee for freedom. No man breathes for me. I breath for myself even so in spiritual matters Abraham will and should not breathe for me. So long as we continue to live our lives based on the truth of another man we will forever remain stunted, spiritually immature beings

MizMyColi:


So let's grow then


Meditation, Meditation, Meditation.
That's the way to go.
To find God, you have to lose God...completely.

Your last line is just too deep. Take away the fiction and you will find the reality and that reality is you, that reality is God. Just like Jesus said I and the father are one even so we and the father are one.

Something happened with the advent of Christianity. From the little I know about religion in the ancient world I think the central mystery of the mystery cults was the knowledge that man himself is god. Sarassin please shed light on this. But with the advent of Christianity this multihuman-gods view was destroyed in order to create space for an exclusive universal supreme God over whom men have laboured to connect with. I tried connecting too. It was killing. I felt sick to the bones. I only began to recover when I quit all that nonsense. I feel healthier now. No need to try to connect with God through Jesus or Muhammed or any mediator. Breathe in, breathe out. That's God. You are connected already.

Mujtahida:

Breathe in, breathe out. That's God. You are connected already.

So ascend.

MizMyColi:

So ascend.

Hahahaha hahahaha. I will not ascend oooo. That's a mistake religions make. I will not descend either except to ascend or descend within myself but not ascend to reach a god in heaven outside myself (I trust you mean ascend within though). God is here, heaven is in my heart, paradise too. Like the Bible says do not say in your heart who will ascend into heaven... The word is near, it is in your mouth and in your heart.

Here and now, our journey ends, here and now our journey begins. (from W. H Auden's poem 'Our endless journey')

Mujtahida:

Hahahaha hahahaha. I will not ascend oooo. That's a mistake religions make. I will not descend either except to ascend or descend within myself but not ascend to reach a god in heaven, outside myself (I trust you mean ascend within though). God is here, heaven is in my heart, paradise too. Like the Bible says do not say in your heart who will ascend into heaven... The word is near, it is in your mouth and in your heart.

Here and now, our journey ends, here and now our journey begins. (from W. H Auden's poem 'Our endless journey'

Lol
It's good you got it.



I wish take my leave now.
Hopefully, I get some rest.

It's good you are here to remind me some truths I forgot.

I really, really thank you for your time, Mujtahida.

MizMyColi:


Lol
It's good you got it.



I wish take my leave now.
Hopefully, I get some rest.

It's good you are here to remind me some truths I forgot.

I really, really thank you for your time, Mujtahida.

You are a pleasure interacting with and I must say you have spiritual depth and understanding. I pray your spiritual longings are satisfied. Cheers. I'll be away some days but I'll check in on you.

Mujtahida:

You are a pleasure interacting with and I must say you have spiritual depth and understanding. I pray your spiritual longings are satisfied. Cheers. I'll be away some days but I'll check in on you.

Thank you.
Do be safe and have a happy weekend.

I must say, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the interactions between Mizmycoli and Mujtahida...Thanks for taking the time to bless this thread with your input guys

LotusFan:
I must say, I have thoroughly enjoyed reading the interactions between Mizmycoli and Muhtahida...Thanks for taking the time to bless this thread with your input guys

Many thanks to you too, Lotusfan.

MizMyColi:
"When you say 'God' you are using a noun, something static, dead.
When I say 'godliness' I am using a word for something alive, flowing, moving. So these points have to be clear to you.
I am not a theist like Jesus or Mohammed or Krishna, because I cannot agree with a dead god.
God -- perfect, absolute, omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent; these are the words used for
God by all the religions -- is dead, cannot be alive, cannot breathe. No, I reject such a god,
because with such a dead god, this whole universe will be dead.

Godliness is a totally different dimension.
Then the greenness in the tree, then the flowering ofvthe rose, then the bird in flight -- all are part of it.
Then God is not separate from the universe.
Then he is the very soul of the universe. Then the universe is vibrating, pulsating, breathing... godliness."
- Preface Excerpt The God Conspiracy by OSHO

Is this why I have found it so somehow to call God and talk about God the way most people do?

Is this why I have found it difficult accepting God, as in the way I was thought to accept God, and even then....

I can't totally rule out his existence,
nonetheless knowing within me there is something fundamentally wrong with my subconscious' overall image of God?

My head.
Ori mi o!!!

What have I gotten myself into bikonum?

MizMyColi, hi top of the day to you ma'am
Permit me this venturesome proposal,
without holding back, define God and god(s) for me, with the full force of all your understanding.

Please convincingly define God and god(s).
Exhaustively and to the best of your understanding do this for me please
In a thorough manner, define God and god(s) to a large and detailed degree.
Do it without holding back, give all your definitions, examples and/or explanations, like as if your life depended on it.

Your exhaustive examples and definition of the nouns, God and gods, is of the most interest to me

MuttleyLaff:
MizMyColi, hi top of the day to you ma'am
Permit me this venturesome proposal,
without holding back, define God and god(s) for me, with the full force of all your understanding.

Please convincingly define God and god(s).
Exhaustively and to the best of your understanding do this for me please
In a thorough manner, define God and god(s) to a large and detailed degree.
Do it without holding back, give all your definitions, examples and/or explanations, like as if your life depended on it.

Your exhaustive examples and definition of the nouns, God and gods, is of the most interest to me

Hi Muttleylaff,

This is what you don't get.
I can not define God.
I have not seen God.
I am not sure that God exists in such a manner as to warrant a definition.

But I exist.
I see myself for who I really am.
You can ask me to define myself and I would painstakingly do that. I would do a dissertation if need be.

Why?
My only personal, realest evidence of God is me.

MizMyColi:
Hi Muttleylaff,

This is what you don't get.
I can not define God.
I have not seen God.
I am not sure that God exists in such a manner as to warrant a definition.

But I exist.
I see myself for who I really am.
You can ask me to define myself and I would painstakingly do that. I would do a dissertation if need be.

This is what, YOU, dont get
I can list you a thousand and one things I have never seen, but still can define each according to my understanding
I can list you a thousand of one things I am not sure that exists but still can define each according to my understanding

I am not interested in you defining who you are?
As if I dont know you havent physically seen God
Make an attempt, try, just do it like Nike

Also you are oversensitive, selective and defensive in your response
Recall I specifically asked about God and god(s), (i.e. as many of the gods you're knowledgeable about)

God and god(s), by definition, exists in such manners, as to warrant articulating their definitions

MizMyColi:
Why?
My only personal, realest evidence of God is me.

This remark is true and so on point
but unfortunately marred because the remark doesnt proffer me an exhaustive "dissertation" definition of God and god(s) I asked you

Mujtahida:


Something happened with the advent of Christianity. From the little I know about religion in the ancient world I think the central mystery of the mystery cults was the knowledge that man himself is god. Sarassin please shed light on this. But with the advent of Christianity this multihuman-gods view was destroyed in order to create space for an exclusive universal supreme God over whom men have laboured to connect with. I tried connecting too. It was killing. I felt sick to the bones. I only began to recover when I quit all that nonsense. I feel healthier now. No need to try to connect with God through Jesus or Muhammed or any mediator. Breathe in, breathe out. That's God. You are connected already.

Thank you. The mystery cults taught us that a long time ago in the days of the Atlantean civilisation prior to the original fall of Man, Men had higher thoughts, and performed great deeds and that these great deeds transcended their lives and thrust them into the pantheon of the gods, such as Apollos, Zeus, Dionysius and so on. But we are also taught of another dimension, and it is that Mankind has always looked to the heavens to find his God and that Whatever God mankind has ever conceived, whatever deity or idol that we have ever carved or worshipped, it is in fact a planetary aspect. Whether it is the irascible, quick to anger slow to forgive YHWH for which one might supplicate Mars or Allah for its Lunar properties, we create our gods to suit our tastes.

The Hebrews conceived the idea of an all-encompassing monotheism knowing full well that familiarity breeds contempt, they looked across and saw that the gods of Phoenicia, Greece and Rome had become too much like men and fallen into dis-repute, quarrelling amongst themselves, the gods of Egypt had been driven into the Nubian desert and Athenian shrines turned into orchards.

A God is only as good as it adoration, they are charged with their own Divine tasks and have their own interests. They require humankind to further these interests. In the universal ecosystem we are all headed in the same direction only at different paces the common denominator as you allude to of course is the Divine spark inherent in all sentient beings. So no, I do not think that we are all Gods, no man born of a woman can be God, but we can aspire.

Sarassin:

A God is only as good as it adoration, they are charged with their own Divine tasks and have their own interests. They require humankind to further these interests. In the universal ecosystem we are all headed in the same direction only at different paces the common denominator as you allude to of course is the Divine spark inherent in all sentient beings. So no, I do not think that we are all Gods, no man born of a woman can be God, but we can aspire.

Yes.

And that is my understanding of the great saying: "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be".

Perhaps I digress but Iwish to ask a question about the atlanteans you mentioned. What is it that happened that pushed - you know who - to use that mighty sword against them? I want to believe they were people with greater virtues in comparison to the present situation of mankind. What knowledge did they lay their hands on that was so threatening?

Did anyone escape?

Sarassin:


...the Divine spark inherent in all sentient beings.

MuttleyLaff:
This is what, YOU, dont get
I can list you a thousand and one things I have never seen, but still can define each according to my understanding
I can list you a thousand of one things I am not sure that exists but still can define each according to my understanding

No, it is you who still don't get.
I do not wish to define something which outside of me, is totally beyond me, I prefer to live it as the mystery that it is.

I am not interested in you defining who you are?
As if I dont know you havent physically seen God
Make an attempt, try, just do it like Nike

Just so we are clear
Which God do you refer to.
Which is it that you want me to define.

Also you are oversensitive, selective and defensive in your response.

I beg to differ, but, So?

Recall I specifically asked about God and god(s), (i.e. as many of the gods you're knowledgeable about)

I don't know.

God and god(s), by definition, exists in such manners, as to warrant articulating their definitions

I am not interested.

This remark is true and so on point

That is all you should know from me about this discourse.

but unfortunately marred because the remark doesnt proffer me an exhaustive "dissertation" definition of God and god(s) I asked you

There is a difference between "can" and "will"

Sarassin:


Thank you. The mystery cults taught us that a long time ago in the days of the Atlantean civilisation prior to the original fall of Man, Men had higher thoughts, and performed great deeds and that these great deeds transcended their lives and thrust them into the pantheon of the gods, such as Apollos, Zeus, Dionysius and so on. But we are also taught of another dimension, and it is that Mankind has always looked to the heavens to find his God and that Whatever God mankind has ever conceived, whatever deity or idol that we have ever carved or worshipped, it is in fact a planetary aspect. Whether it is the irascible, quick to anger slow to forgive YHWH for which one might supplicate Mars or Allah for its Lunar properties, we create our gods to suit our tastes.

The Hebrews conceived the idea of an all-encompassing monotheism knowing full well that familiarity breeds contempt, they looked across and saw that the gods of Phoenicia, Greece and Rome had become too much like men and fallen into dis-repute, quarrelling amongst themselves, the gods of Egypt had been driven into the Nubian desert and Athenian shrines turned into orchards.

A God is only as good as it adoration, they are charged with their own Divine tasks and have their own interests. They require humankind to further these interests. In the universal ecosystem we are all headed in the same direction only at different paces the common denominator as you allude to of course is the Divine spark inherent in all sentient beings. So no, I do not think that we are all Gods, no man born of a woman can be God, but we can aspire.

Thanks for the elucidation. It was said that two sayings were from the temple at Luxor: the body is the temple of God and Man know thyself and thou shall come to know the gods(the first limb 'man know thyself' was popularised by the Delphic Oracle.). Please shed light on this in relation to the Bible saying 'I have said you are gods and you are sons of the most high but you shall die like mere men and the ancient proverb vox populi vox dei (the voice of the people is the voice of God)

I do not believe in a fall though. I admit that I am not as well read as you are concerning this matters but I do not believe in a fall of Man and original sin. Fall is needed to give credence to the narrative which says we we need a savior. I used to believe in a fall and a savior but not anymore. I believe we simply are.

MizMyColi:


Hi Muttleylaff,

This is what you don't get.
I can not define God.
I have not seen God.
I am not sure that God exists in such a manner as to warrant a definition.

But I exist.
I see myself for who I really am.
You can ask me to define myself and I would painstakingly do that. I would do a dissertation if need be.

Why?
My only personal, realest evidence of God is me.

Once you define God you have fallen into the trap of the religions. Even Christianity doesn't define God. It only ascribes divine attributes to him.

Mujtahida:

Once you define God you have fallen into the trap of the religions. Even Christianity doesn't define God. It only ascribes divine attributes to him.

This is so true, that's why Christians, when cornered, would define "god" in a way that a Muslim, Hindu, pastafarian etc can define theirs

Christians have tried to monopolize the common noun, "god," as if it refers specifically to the still very dead Jewish carpenter. They play this wonderful game of bait and switch where they argue for the theoretical existence of "a god," (eg "god obviously designed the universe" and then quietly slip in "their god" into the equation. It's just more of those deceptive and dishonest "Christian values" we hear so much about.

Mujtahida:

Once you define God you have fallen into the trap of the religions. Even Christianity doesn't define God. It only ascribes divine attributes to him.

I taya o o.

I see myself as an extension, a part of this divinity, God if you may, which humanity has tried so much to decipher. It is why I can proclaim that as he is, so am I.....it's more of a desire. Something I am, but still wish to attain. Is that a paradox or an irony?

I recognize a discourse whose inherent motive is to box me in a corner, and I treat for what it is.

How can you ask me to define someone abi is it something I am no longer sure exists in the way I was taught.

Would that not be akin to playing to a gallery or even deceiving myself?

I don't know, but I wish to know...or re-know, perhaps un-know, then know.

Honestly, when you finally, or let me say, when you begin to let go of dogmatic understanding, it tends to get upsetting.

It"s like you become an angry bird (which is what I suspect I am now)

You become that way because there is no anchor of sorts anymore.

And until you find some calm, and deliberately breathe in and out, thereby going within, and connecting with the very essence of your life in some kind of middle point, then you might continue to feel that unrest, which may later morph into aloofness.

As much as I like defining things and having answers, there are just somethings that are beyond me at the moment, and I kinda like it.

It makes me aspire, y'know, like wanting to reach out for more.

What am I even saying

One minute you are sure you know...

The other, it's like you are nothing but a wiped slate!

What a journey

LoJ:

Yes.

And that is my understanding of the great saying: "As man now is, God once was; as God now is, man may be".

Perhaps I digress but Iwish to ask a question about the atlanteans you mentioned. What is it that happened that pushed - you know who - to use that mighty sword against them? I want to believe they were people with greater virtues in comparison to the present situation of mankind. What knowledge did they lay their hands on that was so threatening?

Did anyone escape?

Hi LoJ, it is from Timaeus, the dialogue of Plato we learn of ancient Atlantis, a civilization that had become so powerful, enlightened and arrogant that it sought to subjugate the world, a mighty battle ensued between it and lowly Athens in which we are told Athens triumphed and Atlantis disappeared under the deluge.

The remnants of its peoples are reputed to be the “Guanches” whose descendants were the original inhabitants of the Canary Islands, they populated the islands long before the arrival of the Europeans. They were possessed of stupendous magick that was and still is unknown to western systems.

Mujtahida:

Thanks for the elucidation. It was said that two sayings were from the temple at Luxor: the body is the temple of God and Man know thyself and thou shall come to know the gods(the first limb 'man know thyself' was popularised by the Delphic Oracle.). Please shed light on this in relation to the Bible saying 'I have said you are gods and you are sons of the most high but you shall die like mere men and the ancient proverb vox populi vox dei (the voice of the people is the voice of God)

I do not believe in a fall though. I admit that I am not as well read as you are concerning this matters but I do not believe in a fall of Man and original sin. Fall is needed to give credence to the narrative which says we we need a savior. I used to believe in a fall and a savior but not anymore. I believe we simply are.

Dead right of course, knowledge of oneself is the only true knowledge and since we are a microcosm of the Divine then by extension gaining understanding of oneself is to gain understanding of the Divine.

On the other hand, the statement “Ye are gods and sons of the most high…” is of a more specific nature. It relates to the Divine Council, a congregation of gods and the Divine Lawsuit brought about by El Elyon the Most High, an indictment of one of the 72 sons of the Most High for dereliction of duty and inadvertently transposed into the Hebrew Bible from its Canaanite origins. Two different things entirely.

I agree with you with respect to the biblical terms of the “Fall of Man”, clearly it is allegorical. In esoterica the term "Fall of Man" is used in a more prosaic manner, I refer to the original fall of man as the self-destruction of an advanced race and civilisation by means of its own decadence.

Sarassin:


Dead right of course, knowledge of oneself is the only true knowledge and since we are a microcosm of the Divine then by extension gaining understanding of oneself is to gain understanding of the Divine.

On the other hand, the statement “Ye are gods and sons of the most high…” is of a more specific nature. It relates to the Divine Council, a congregation of gods and the Divine Lawsuit brought about by El Elyon the Most High, an indictment of one of the 72 sons of the Most High for dereliction of duty and inadvertently transposed into the Hebrew Bible from its Canaanite origins. Two different things entirely.

I agree with you with respect to the biblical terms of the “Fall of Man”, clearly it is allegorical. In esoterica the term "Fall of Man" is used in a more prosaic manner, I refer to the original fall of man as the self-destruction of an advanced race and civilisation by means of its own decadence.

You sabi. You are so well read on these matters. Makes me really curious about what you. One thing though : I wish you'd talk about spiritual things without the jargons as in terms like astral, metaphysical, esoteric, exoteric, arcana etc.
I see spiritual matters as natural as the air we breathe. I like a spirituality that talks about the sun, the moon, the seasons, the grasses of the fields, the rain, the deserts, the hills and mountains, the thunder, the cry of the the Eagle as it soars in the winds, the song of birds, the wild animals, the call of the wild, the birthing of a child, dance, laughter, love, light in the eyes, the tenderness of a smile, the bitterness of a heartbreak, death, fear, disappointments, depression, darkness, hope, songs. As in a spirituality that takes in the whole panorama of our lives on earth and gives it depth. For me nature is spiritual.
Well I see your interpretation of 'the fall' is outside the bounds of the biblical definition. Good enough. Tired of hearing about sin, sin, sin. Sin to me is hurting myself or hurting people and repentance is asking those you have hurt to forgive you and stopping the hurtful act or words. I do not believe in sinning against God. Sin is a control grid. Once one gets locked in it it's hard to get out of it. It's an effective tool of control.