Ubenedictus: It seems u are trying to bait me, that is not a good way to make meaningful discussion my mind is open, it seem u have shut urs to d posibility that a soul or spirit exists.

i will discribe it using these two words: satisfaction, fulfilment.

i think u need to see a dictionary.

no it is also intellectual.

dear im very sure i didnt ridicule be for a discussion to begin we need a common ground, you are clearly against anything spiritual and faith is both intellectual and spiritual. It is almost imposible to discus spiritual thing with one who doesnt believe in d spiritual.
I noticed you had no comment about the link i gave.

mkmyers45: Normally religion is only a matter of faith and the logic of science doesn't apply. Other than the concept of Designed Humanism, are there other religions that can combine God with a belief in logic?

mkmyers45: Normally religion is only a matter of faith and the logic of science doesn't apply. Other than the concept of Designed Humanism, are there other religions that can combine God with a belief in logic?

MacDaddy01:



Impossible.

Belief in God is not logical, it is based on faith

Delafruita:
first,what is religion?it will be a misconception to assume that all religion is basedon faith.there are over 15,000religions in the world and not all of them are illogical.buddhism existed for many years before christ and with the help of king Asoka,it became a state religion.that religion isnt just based on faith in the buddha.itsbased largely on practicing goodand eschewing evil.it has its own tenets which adherrents are expected to believe in without questioning just because the buddha said so but one fact is that the compilers of the tipitaka admit to been the compilers.
the aztecs have one of the weirdest judgement methods ever and according to them,judgement isnt based on if you're good or bad,its based on how you die.
egyptians believe in reincarnation based on how you are buried.
simply put,different religions have different tenets and not all of them are based on blind faith.some of then actually combine a lot of logic such as our traditional religion

deandavid: my religion christianity can be logical to some EXTENT or level, there are levels where you cannot logically/rationally or scientifically relate with religion,thats where FAITH comes in. I believe in christ, not because i'v seen him physically or because people believe in him, i didnt chose christianity, God chose me to be a christian, how can u logically explain that?

claremont: Religion and science/logic are radically incompatible and have been proven to be so. There have been noble attempts in the past to harmonize both via a series of basic scientific evaluations of religious claims, the conclusions have unanimously been that these claims have been entirely false.

Science/logic works on the basis of proof, the existence of this proof validates or invalidates an initial hypothesis. In other words, the absence of evidence is clearly the evidence of absence. Religion on the other hand works on the basis of the faith of its adherents, it is a misnomer to have faith and still believe in the rigours of scientific evaluations. A clear example of this is the fact of human evolution, yet religion still upholds the archaic view that a deity created the world in 7 days, this is besides the plethora of evidence that prove the contrary.

This is the reason why most scientists consider religious belief as a tell-tale sign of mental illness. People who choose to disbelieve clear scientific evidence, but believe tales inscribed in a 2000 year old book, are surely mental.

gbadexy: Sure you can. I am not an islamic scholar and I haven't personally read up to a third of the whole english Quran, but I came across an interesting verse in the Quran.
The Quran has many revelations that scientists
of today can relate to.Q 32.v 5
In a chapter titled prostration in the Quran,
God said the he directs all the activity of the
world from heaven and all the affairs of the
world come up to Him every day. He said that
one day that it takes for the affairs of the world
to reach him is a thousand years in man's
time!
Talking of speed of light! Imagine the number
of hours in a thousand years and see if any
spacecraft can ever travel it.
This concept wouldn't mean anything to a
novice, but to anyone or scientist that is
familiar with astronomy understands that due
to the vastness of space, distance is measured
in light years, imagine the speed a light travels
in a second! Scientists say we are looking at
the past anytime we look at the stars because
they are so far and some have been traveling
for over 400 years to reach us.
Our own sunlight reaches us in 8 minutes, and
yet the Quran states that all the affairs of the
world come up to him daily, that means in
8760 hours multiplied by a thousand and yet
its an instant for God over a huge space.
This shows a revelation that acknowledge the
existence of vast space and time travel, not
some fable or believe that heaven is in the sky
like we were meant to believe about people
building towers to reach heaven.
I'm sure NASA wasn't in existence in
Muhammad's time so he couldn't have thought
that up, and I know if any western scientist
have access or is persuaded to read this verse,
he definitely would look at islam in a new
perspective.

okeyxyz:
But people of faith do have a reason for believing, don't they? The subject of their belief must meet a set of criteria/logic before they decide to believe. You cannot say it's without logic simply because it's a different system from yours. Hell!, Even a mad man has a reason for his thoughts & behaviours, though best known to him alone, Which is why psychiatrists study, analyse, categorize and treat them.

infolekan:
And that is why they are called madmen. Religion does not follow logic the same way science does not.
Logic is the science that governs reliable inference....meaning deducable endpoints. A man without a naira in his pocket who tells you he'z rich definitely does not follow logic cos he can't explain it.
Science doesn't explain logic cos all our education and studies are based on things we can't see....how else do you explain a round world and the fact that we're not falling off? Gravity right? Like you can actually touch it. . And we could all argue about space and matter and molecule but the imple explanation for a mobile phone & how it works still eludes us. God will Bless Us

mkmyers45:


And what evidence have you given to that effect? Logic?

A satisfaction that you believe things a logical thinker can't?

Definition of TRANSCEND

: to triumph over the negative or restrictive aspects of
: overcome : to be prior to, beyond, and above
: to outstrip or outdo in some attribute, quality, or power
su·pe·ri·or (s-pîr-r)
adj.
1. Higher than another in rank, station, or authority.
2. Situated above or directed upward.
3. Situated nearer the top of the head.

Ok, then wherein does never understanding spiritual matters come in?

How are you certain i don't believe in the meta-physical? I will read through later and give my thoughts...

Bandy10: Religion is based on dogma ie believing without evidence eg someone died and rose up the third day thsi story cannot be provedno proof.Whereas science is based on verifiable evidence.None of the stories in the bible can be verified.So there is no correlation between science and religion

mkmyers45:


And what evidence have you given to that effect? Logic?



A satisfaction that you believe things a logical thinker can't?



Definition of TRANSCEND

: to triumph over the negative or restrictive aspects of
: overcome : to be prior to, beyond, and above
: to outstrip or outdo in some attribute, quality, or power

su·pe·ri·or (s-pîr-r)
adj.
1. Higher than another in rank, station, or authority.
2. Situated above or directed upward.
3. Situated nearer the top of the head.


Ok, then wherein does never understanding spiritual matters come in?



How are you certain i don't believe in the meta-physical? I will read through later and give my thoughts...

philip0906:
[size=18pt]Balderdash. . . d'u have any evidence 2 d big bang theory apart 4rm d stories ur dear scientists tell u?[/size]

Valueé: If what the ops meant was can the authenticity of religion be logical?
My reply would be YES!!! Only if one could attain a higher level of wisdom...
If a thorough exploration of the ecosystem, shows that the system itself is logical. And religion is a way of life that helps maintain the structure in place....then it can be deduced that religion is Logical.

Delafruita:
first,what is religion?it will be a misconception to assume that all religion is basedon faith.there are over 15,000religions in the world and not all of them are illogical.buddhism existed for many years before christ and with the help of king Asoka,it became a state religion.that religion isnt just based on faith in the buddha.[b]itsbased largely on practicing goodand eschewing evil.[/b]it has its own tenets which adherrents are expected to believe in without questioning just because the buddha said so but one fact is that the compilers of the tipitaka admit to been the compilers.
the aztecs have one of the weirdest judgement methods ever and according to them,judgement isnt based on if you're good or bad,its based on how you die.
egyptians believe in reincarnation based on how you are buried.
simply put,different religions have different tenets and not all of them are based on blind faith.some of then actually combine a lot of logic such as our traditional religion

mkmyers45: @Ubenedictus im mobile nw but we will continue our discuss soon

mkmyers45: Normally religion is only a matter of faith and the logic of science doesn't apply. Other than the concept of Designed Humanism, are there other religions that can combine God with a belief in logic?

O.D.B.:
NO.

I believe in a creator, a grand architect because our universe conforms to laws and definitions but religion is b.s. It assumes a personnel description based on "faith" and as always will end up being superstitious.

Bandy10: Religion is based on dogma ie believing without evidence eg someone died and rose up the third day thsi story cannot be provedno proof.Whereas science is based on verifiable evidence.None of the stories in the bible can be verified.So there is no correlation between science and religion

Ubenedictus: do u consider dis creator to be a personal God?

Ubenedictus: dear friend i dont have a special word for what transcend reason, but i have an experience it. do u want to help me. I never mentioned superiority i talked about transcended. It is imposible to explain spiritual matter to someone who doesnt believe he has a spirit. We need a starting point.

better still i can give you a link to pope john paul documents on faith and reason. It is a christian perspective and to be specific a catholic perspective. http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/encyclicals/documents/hf_jp-ii_enc_15101998_fides-et-ratio_en.html i would be happy to discuss with anyone on the points he raised.
Peace