OLAADEGBU:

Read it up in John 1:1

Read up John 1:14

OLAADEGBU:

You need to go to the Holy Spirit Himself for He shall guide you into the truth.

The Holy Spirit does not guide into error.

Seeing that you are seriously misguided on so many counts, who is leading you into all these errors, definitely not GOD .

OLAADEGBU:

Get the first thing first; What God begets is God; just as what man begets is man, do you agree with this?

1 Corinthians 8:5-6
New International Version (NIV)

5 For even if there are so-called
gods, whether in heaven or on
earth (as indeed there are many
“gods” and many “lords”), 6 yet for
us there is but one God, the Father,
from whom all things came and for
whom we live; and there is but one
Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom
all things came and through whom
we live.

We don't have problem with Jesus being God as v5 said that there are gods( or Gods, whichever you want to use).

But we all(including Jesus), have ONE GOD who is the Father(1 person not 3 persons) v6. That why Jesus called the Father His God and our God. We also have where is said "the God of our lord Jesus...." Eph 1:17, Col 1:3, etc.

One God is clearly shown to be the Father alone. Do you have any objection to all these things that are clearly written?

Enigma: Jesus was in very nature God before he became a man through incarnation. Simples.

Philippians 2

Ok. I understand this one.

Jesus was in the very nature of His God and Father before He came to the earth as man. That is why the bible said "He is the exact image of the Father."

Hope you agree?

Enigma: Oh, and of course the above is attested by John 1:1.

Oh, another by the way: to know when Jesus was begotten (before he became a man through incarnation) is to know when God the Father Himself came into existence or began to exist.

"...You are my Son, today I have begotten You." Ps 2:7.

This does not look like it doesn't have a beginning. But God's existence has no beginning. So look for a better analogy cos what you believed it to be no match.

In the beginning was the Word,
and the Word was with God,
and the Word was God.

Unles you are saying that GOD as it is used here refer to trinity. Lets see.

The Word(Jesus) is with God(The Father).
The Word is God(Jesus(unles ur saying Jesus is the Father)).

v18 say "no one has seen God at any time, the only begotten Son...has declared Him.

v18 shows that no one has seen God the Father whom the bible referred to as 'One God' over all, 1 cor 8:6.

The Father is the God of Jesus(God) Eph 1:17 and Jesus(the Word) was with His God in the beginning.

I don't see any thing trinity has to do with it.

frosbel:

The Holy Spirit does not guide into error.

Seeing that you are seriously misguided on so many counts, who is leading you into all these errors, definitely not GOD .

I wonder o!

As if when we ask God for His spirit, He will come and teach us things that contradict the scripture.

OLAADEGBU:

Get the first thing first; What God begets is God; just as what man begets is man, do you agree with this?

Yes I get that. No one is disputing that Jesus is of the same kind or nature as God. Just as you said- what a man begets is Man. What I am saying is that he does not share some of Gods attributes:
1. Co-eternal: Jesus is not co-eternal with God. His life began at that point in time when God begot him. God has no beginning.
2. Almighty: Jesus does not have equal power or authority as his father. I am sure you do not need me to give you scriptures on that point yet again.

honeychild:
1. Co-eternal: Jesus is not co-eternal with God. His life began at that point in time when God begot him. God has no beginning.
n.

This is a salient point....anyone who doesn't get this point is not a sincere pÉrson........

Honey Çhild you too much.....

honeychild:

Yes I get that. No one is disputing that Jesus is of the same kind or nature as God. Just as you said- what a man begets is Man. What I am saying is that he does not share some of Gods attributes:

1. Co-eternal: Jesus is not co-eternal with God. His life began at that point in time when God begot him. God has no beginning.

Jesus possesses the attributes that belong only to God:

Jesus is Eternal:

John 1:1 affirms:

"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God."

The word "was" in this verse is an imperfect tense, indicating continuous, ongoing existence. When the time-space universe came into being, Christ already existed.

The Father calls Jesus Christ God:

"But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom."

(Heb.1:8 ).

honeychild:

2. Almighty: Jesus does not have equal power or authority as his father. I am sure you do not need me to give you scriptures on that point yet again.

It is you that needs to search the Scriptures and it is only then that you will discover that Jesus is also All-Powerful.

Jesus Christ, before His incarnation created the entire cosmos:

"All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made."

(John 1:3).

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him."

(Col.1:16).

"Has in these last days spoken to us by His Son, whom He has appointed heir of all things, by whom also He made the worlds."

(Heb.1:2)

Jesus Christ sustains the universe by His own Power:

"And he is before all things, and by him all things consists."

(Col.1:17)

"Who being the brightness of His glory, and the express image of His Person, and upholding all things by the word of His power, when He had by Himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high."

(Heb.1:3).

All these Christ did before He stepped out of eternity and took up humanity and then back into eternity.

^^^ Ko ma ye wọn ni!

We say to know when Jesus was begotten is to know when God (The Father) and The Holy Spirit "began to exist" or "came into existence", yet they are still talking of "when" Jesus was begotten.

As someone else has put it before, in talking of the begottenness of Jesus in this particular sense, we are talking of an eternal relationship with the Father. And some people are asking "when". O ga.

Enigma: ^^^ Ko ma ye wọn ni!

We say to know when Jesus was begotten is to know when God (The Father) and The Holy Spirit "began to exist" or "came into existence", yet they are still talking of "when" Jesus was begotten.

As someone else has put it before, in talking of the begottenness of Jesus in this particular sense, we are talking of an eternal relationship with the Father. And some people are asking "when". O ga.

Na real O ga ju.

What our Lord Jesus Christ said here sums it up:

"In that hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit, and said, I thank thee, O Father, Lord of heaven and earth, that thou hast hid these things from the wise and prudent, and hast revealed them unto babes: even so, Father; for so it seemed good in thy sight. All things are delivered to me of my Father: and no man knoweth who the Son is, but the Father; and who the Father is, but the Son, and he to whom the Son will reveal him. And he turned him unto his disciples, and said privately, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that ye see: For I tell you, that many prophets and kings have desired to see those things which ye see, and have not seen them; and to hear those things which ye hear, and have not heard them" (Luke 10:21-25).

"All things were made by him;
and without him was not any
thing made that was made ."
(John 1:3).

"For by him were all things
created, that are in heaven, and
that are in earth, visible and
invisible, whether they be
thrones, or dominions, or
principalities, or powers: all
things were created by him,
and for him."
(Col.1:16).

"Has in these last days spoken
to us by His Son, whom He has
appointed heir of all things, by
whom also He made the
worlds ."
(Heb.1:2)

Dictionary meaning.
BY:
used for saying how something is
done

using a particular method to
achieve something

Reading is taught by traditional
methods here.

The palace balcony is shielded by
bulletproof glass.

Every bit of lace is made by hand
(=not using a machine).

by doing something: By using the
Internet you can do your shopping from home.

by post/phone/fax etc: They
exchanged New Year's greetings by email.

'By' has other meanings but the one used in your quote MUST agree with where it says "God made all things THROUGH Christ." ie all things were created by(through) him.

This is just showing how all things were made. In otherwords, showing how the creation of all things by God was achieved.

Any objection?

Enigma: ^^^ Ko ma ye wọn ni!

We say to know when Jesus was begotten is to know when God (The Father) and The Holy Spirit "began to exist" or "came into existence", yet they are still talking of "when" Jesus was begotten.

As someone else has put it before, in talking of the begottenness of Jesus in this particular sense, we are talking of an eternal relationship with the Father. And some people are asking "when". O ga.

Seems ur confused there? Is it not by talking of "when" you know "when" something happened?

"today i have begotten you" that is when it happened. God's existence has no "when."

I gave you a scripture which you can't refute. Is your spirit not telling you anything about it which you can get from the bible?

Trinity and doctrines that are not of God are easily debunked from the scripture. The Holy spirit cannot lie.

OLAADEGBU:

Na real O ga ju.

What our Lord Jesus Christ said here sums it up:

"In that hour Jesus rejoiced in
spirit, and said, I thank thee, O
Father, Lord of heaven and
earth, that thou hast hid these
things from the wise and
prudent, and hast revealed
them unto babes: even so,
Father; for so it seemed good in
thy sight. All things are
delivered to me of my Father:
and no man knoweth who the
Son is, but the Father; and who
the Father is, but the Son, and
he to whom the Son will reveal
him . And he turned him unto
his disciples, and said privately,
Blessed are the eyes which see
the things that ye see: For I tell
you, that many prophets and
kings have desired to see those
things which ye see, and have
not seen them; and to hear
those things which ye hear, and
have not heard them " (Luke
10:21-25).

Misinterpretation too much.

My dear we know who our lord Jesus is. Those that don't know him are the pharisees who claim to be wise and relying on what their spirit tells them. They have to go to the bible for them know him since he is no more with them.

Our God and Father is One.
Unles you don't have anything to say against my replies to your posts, know that:

TRINITY HAS BEEN DEBUNKED AGAIN.

It is just an account born out of Imagination. Simple.

Enigma: ^^^
As someone else has put it before, in talking of the begottenness of Jesus in this particular sense, we are talking of an eternal relationship with the Father. And some people are asking "when". O ga.

Lol......

You can never twist that word ""begotten"" to fit into the trinity dogma.....sorry my brother it just can't work....the truth is so glaring........

Jesus is not co-eternal.......his life started when he was begotten......that is why he is also the "image"" of the invincible GOD just like you are.......... also he is called the "beginning of"" of Gods creation and ""firstborn of"" all creation.....

Go peruse the scriptures from genesis to revelation to find out what these expressions ""beginning of"" ,"" firstborn of"",""image of"" means when refering to living things....

Thank you.....





The Father is who gave all of us(with Jesus included) life..........

That is the Father(Yahweh) is the GOD and Father of Jesus and all of us........

Boomark:

Dictionary meaning.
BY:
used for saying how something is
done

using a particular method to
achieve something

Reading is taught by traditional
methods here.

The palace balcony is shielded by
bulletproof glass.

Every bit of lace is made by hand
(=not using a machine).

by doing something: By using the
Internet you can do your shopping from home.

by post/phone/fax etc: They
exchanged New Year's greetings by email.

'By' has other meanings but the one used in your quote MUST agree with where it says "God made all things THROUGH Christ." ie all things were created by(through) him.

This is just showing how all things were made. In otherwords, showing how the creation of all things by God was achieved.

Any objection?

Since your mind is already made up I don't see any reason to argue with you lest you become confused with the truth. I advised that you consult the Holy Spirit but you chose to rather consult your dictionary for a word. If your Governing Body is to you the Spirit of Truth then don't let me confuse you with the facts/truth.

Boomark:

Misinterpretation too much.

My dear we know who our lord Jesus is. Those that don't know him are the pharisees who claim to be wise and relying on what their spirit tells them. They have to go to the bible for them know him since he is no more with them.

Our God and Father is One.
Unles you don't have anything to say against my replies to your posts, know that:

TRINITY HAS BEEN DEBUNKED AGAIN.

It is just an account born out of Imagination. Simple.

I can see that all you want is to win an argument. A man with an experience is not at the mercy of the man with an argument.

ijawkid:

Lol......

You can never twist that word ""begotten"" to fit into the trinity dogma.....sorry my brother it just can't work....the truth is so glaring........

Jesus is not co-eternal.......his life started when he was begotten......that is why he is also the "image"" of the invincible GOD just like you are.......... also he is called the "beginning of"" of Gods creation and ""firstborn of"" all creation.....

Go peruse the scriptures from genesis to revelation to find out what these expressions ""beginning of"" ,"" firstborn of"",""image of"" means when refering to living things....

Thank you.....





The Father is who gave all of us(with Jesus included) life..........

That is the Father(Yahweh) is the GOD and Father of Jesus and all of us........

What does it mean to call Jesus the only begotten Son of God?

Does the title applied to Jesus, Son of God, imply that He is different than God? No. Jesus is the only begotten Son of God (John 3:16), while Christians are adopted sons of God (Romans 8:15-17). Christians are called adopted sons of God because we are different from God and must become His children (hence, adopted, not begotten). Jesus is not called adopted because He never became God's Son, but has always been God's Son. Calling Jesus the only begotten Son of God means that He is of the same nature as God, not a different nature, as C.S. Lewis explains:

"To beget is to become the father of: to create is to make. And the difference is this. When you beget, you beget something of the same kind as yourself. A man begets human babies, a beaver begets little beavers, But when you make, you make something of a different kind from yourself. A bird makes a nest, a beaver builds a dam . . . Now that is the first thing to get clear. What God begets is God; just as what man begets is man. What God creates is not God, just as what man makes is not man. That is why men are not Sons of God in the sense that Christ is. They may be like God in certain ways, but they are not things of the same kind."

There is a clear distinction between making and begetting, that is, you cannot make what you beget. What you make is different from yourself, what you beget has your nature. Therefore to call Jesus the only begotten Son is to say that He has God's nature and was not made. Since He has God's nature, He is, by definition, God and therefore eternal. If Jesus was created by God, He could not have been begotten, and John 3:16; 1:18, 1 John 4:9, etc. are in error.

Therefore, when the Bible says that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, it means that Jesus is equal to God, not less than God. QED.

OLAADEGBU:

Therefore, when the Bible says that Jesus is the only begotten Son of God, it means that Jesus is equal to God, not less than God. QED.

This is the most absurd statement I've heard this morning.....its a paradox...lol...



In order words you are saying Jesus can also beget the Father since they are equal....

Can the process be the other way round??.....

It seems you've lost touch with reality......

Even when Jesus said the Father is greater than he is you still have the guts to say Christ is equal to his Father.....

Jesus had a beginning....the truth is all over the scriptures.......

OLAADEGBU:

Since your mind is already made up I don't see any reason to argue with you lest you become confused with the truth. I advised that you consult the Holy Spirit but you chose to rather consult your dictionary for a word. If your Governing Body is to you the Spirit of Truth then don't let me confuse you with the facts/truth.

If the Holy spirit tells "God is one," you must have a confirmation from the scriptures because the spirit is true everywhere. But when their is no confirmation of what a spirit tells you then you have to beware.

How do you know the meaning of the word "by"? Certainly not from thin air. I also showed you how it is synonymous to "through." I didn't twist it to suit what i want.
There nothing like governing body here. We are 'reasoning from the scriptures.'

OLAADEGBU:

I can see that all you want is to win an argument. A man with an experience is not at the mercy of the man with an argument.

This is not an argument but teaching. That is why i answer you from what you said. But you can't answer mine and still insist on trinity. I then assumed trinity was borne out imaginations because it has no backing from the bible.

I also ask if there are objections but i receive non. Experiences are back up by their sources.

This is food for thought for true seekers of the truth of the Deity of Christ.

"Giving thanks unto the Father, which hath made us meet to be partakers of the inheritance of the saints in light: Who hath delivered us from the power of darkness, and hath translated us into the kingdom of his dear Son: In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins: Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature: For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones or dominions or principalities or powers: all things were created by him, and for him. And he is before all things, and by him all things consist.."

Colossians 1:12-17

Let me share more thoughts on the verses above with you guys if you can take it.

Does the Scriptures bolded here teach that Jesus was created?

You will see here that Jesus is called the "first-born" of all creation. The term "first-born" here does not imply "first-created" those two words mean two different things.

You can see from the following points that Paul was not teaching that Jesus was created:

Birth and creation are not equivalent terms. For example, the Bible teaches that Jesus was born of a virgin, but this does not mean that Jesus was created the day He was born of Virgin Mary and since birth and creation happen at different times, they cannot mean the same thing.

There are two different Greek words for "first-born" and "first-created" and Paul used the word which means "first-born" not "first-created"

Paul was not teaching that Jesus Christ is a created being because he further taught that Jesus Christ was really the Creator of all things. If all things were created by Christ, He cannot be created, otherwise there is something that Christ did not create and this verse would be in error when it states that Christ created all things.

Hebrews 1:10 and John 1:3 confirms that:

The Lord Jesus Christ is the Creator of everything that has been created and thus He must not be created, but God.

What does the title "first-born" mean?

Reputable Bible scholars say:

"This title refers to Christ's preeminent position and sovereignty over creation, not that He Himself is a part of creation. In the Old Testament, the first-born had certain rights and a certain status, such as preeminence, a double share of the inheritance, the right of the priesthood, and supremacy. And it can be distinctly seen from Genesis 49:3 that the meaning "priority of birth" or in "in time" has been overshadowed and even sometimes lost to the implication of the term meaning "supremacy" or "preeminence." In other words, one does not have to have been "born first" to be called "first-born" because the term's primary meaning came to be "preeminence" and "supremacy," sometimes with nothing to do about birth."

When Paul calls Jesus the first-born, He is saying that Jesus has all the rights of the first-born and that He has the first-born status of supremacy and preeminence. When Paul adds that He is the first-born of all creation, He is merely specifying what Christ's preeminence (i.e., His first-born status) applies to -- namely, all creation.

Furthermore, this passage clearly teaches Christ's deity. Since the Uncreated Creator alone created all things (Isaiah 44:24; Hebrews 3:4), and Colossians tells us that Christ is the Creator, we can then conclude that Jesus is the Uncreated Creator.

Other Bible scholars have demonstrated that the word "born" does not mean to be "created" when we look at it from Jesus' title "Son of God." You might misconstrue this to mean that Jesus Christ must have come into existence at some point and that He is less than God, thinking that He is the Son of God, and not God, in just the same way that a human son comes into existence after their human father, which may be on your minds. This might sound plausible at first, but upon proper observation it becomes clear that this cannot be the case. The Bible is very clear in defining the title "Son of God" to mean that Jesus is of the same nature as God, just like a child is of the same nature as their parent. And if Jesus Christ has God's nature, then He is, by definition, God, and therefore without a beginning.

Image123:

Other scriptures for the benefits of those that can see in humility, the mystery of godliness.

The Bible is the Word of the Trinity. It is God the Father talking, the Son talking, the Spirit talking.
Rev 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

Ananias and Sapphira lied to the Trinity.
Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
Act 5:4 While it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.

Our body is the temple of the Trinity
1Jo 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.
1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 3:16 Know ye not that ye are the temple of God, and that the Spirit of God dwelleth in you?


The Spirit of God is the Spirit of the Father and the Son. They said it is unreasonable for God to have two Spirits, we tell dem say not even two, na Seven.
Galat 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
1Pe 1:11 Searching what, or what manner of time the Spirit of Christ which was in them did signify, when it testified beforehand the sufferings of Christ, and the glory that should follow.
Rev 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven Spirits of God, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

Waaaaaaoh, the Spirit of Christ was in the old testament prophets, and here i was all this while thinking it was the Spirit of God. Okay, Christ is God i recall.

Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honor than the house.
Heb 3:4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
Who is He that built all things, without whom there was not any made that was made? (Col 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him. )
The Christ Jesus is God and Lord.
Mar 12:29 And Jesus answered him, The first of all the commandments is, Hear, O Israel; The Lord our God is one Lord:

Without a doubt, there is some puzzling, some mystery. Even the great scholar and apostle Paul says
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.

Anti-trinity folks say there is no mystery anywhere, and they misapply and twist Paul's writing that God is not a God of confusion. Peter warned us of them, and apostle John told us about God the Son.They accuse everybody and find fault with all versions and translations. they pat themselves in the back and 'like' each other's post on nl as if to add weight to their logic. Fleshly minded fellows.

2Pe 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other Scriptures, unto their own destruction.


1Jo 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life.
1Jo 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.

Those who would know the will God would definitely know that this doctrine is of Christ and not of men.

Jesus Christ: Creator
December 27, 2012.

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him" (Colossians 1:16).

The Old Testament uses several names for the One who created. For example: "For thus saith the LORD |i.e., Jehovah| that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it" (Isaiah 45:18 ). But the New Testament leaves no doubt as to who the Creator is.

Today’s verse states it clearly. The "him" in context is the Father’s "dear Son" (v. 13) who shed "his blood" (v. 14). Similarly, the favourite passage in John 1:3 identifies Christ as the Creator: "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made." "He was in the world, and the world was made by him" (v. 10). "The Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (v. 14). No member of the human race nor member of the Trinity fits this description except Jesus Christ. "God . . . hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds" (Hebrews 1:1-2).

Jesus Christ is the Creator, and once He put on human form, His creative abilities continued to find application. Several of His miracles involved creation out of nothing. Note the feeding of the five thousand (John 6:10-11), the transformation of water into wine (John 2:9-11), and bringing life from non-life--the raising of Lazarus (John 11:43-44), just to name a few.

Perhaps the most important creative act of Christ is one He performs on repentant sinners every day. "Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new" (2 Corinthians 5:17). JDM

For more . . . .