ghazzal:

my friend, thats a problem. people dont understand islam. the scenario these days is like that of past prophets where their people attack them to run from the message. they forget that everyman decides his own fate.... now

Islam existed since the beginning of time!
-Did it exist at the big bang? i dont know and it really does not matter or did Adam exist at the big bang?
-Was Abraham a muslim? Abraham was a monotheist. one who submits himself wholly to one true God giving him the title"friend of God". is that the meaning of Muslim?
-Was Muhammad's father a muslim? was Mary a Christian? or was Abrahams father submissive to God? how did that become a criteria
-Was Jesus a muslim? check the Bible, was Jesus submissive to God "the father"





if Millions of even muslims dont spoeak Arabic and they spread around the globe, they are convinced of islam. is islam universal? isnt that suprising too........lol

i did not read above that being universal is a function of time. show me pls!

1) Your definition of Islam fails. Judaism was not the first monotheistic religion. Zoroastrianism was.

So, were Zoroastrians muslims? Because you are now calling Jewish people "mulsims" by your definition. This is the mentality of islam "conquer and take"

How else would someone believe that Jews, preaching Jewish scriptures and living among Jews is a muslim? By extension the present day Jews are muslims by your logic!


Your religion did not exist as the beginning of time. The first monotheistic religion was Zoroastrianism- unless they were muslims.






2) Universality depends on time. I was showing that your religion was not universal at Muhammed's time or even during the caliphates.

-Even now, Islam is almost non-existent in China (2% muslim)
-Or in Uruguay or many parts of South America.

Adam was a Zoroastrian? You're just a confused individual.

maclatunji: Adam was a Zoroastrian? You're just a confused individual.

Who said Adam was a Zoroastrian? You are the one confused.

Logicboy03:

Who said Adam was a Zoroastrian? You are the one confused.

lol.... but what do you mean if you agree that Adam was a monotheist then you went ahead to state that zoroastrianism is the first monotheistic religion?

pls where is logicboy01!

also is Zoroastrianism a submission to the One true God. or judaism ....... ISLAM IS TOTAL SUBMISSION TO ONE&ONLY TRUE GOD WHO CREATED ALL THAT EXIST

ghazzal:

lol.... but what do you mean if you agree that Adam was a monotheist then you went ahead to state that zoroastrianism is the first monotheistic religion?

pls where is logicboy01!

also is Zoroastrianism a submission to the One true God. or judaism ....... ISLAM IS TOTAL SUBMISSION TO ONE&ONLY TRUE GOD WHO CREATED ALL THAT EXIST

I am still the original logicboy. Just more attack minded on theists (Thanks to banning by Maclatunji)

Your problem is that you dont trealise that I refuse to believe that Adam was the first man on earth. The first man was not created from scrratch and neither did he have a Jewish/Hebrew name

maclatunji:

You can call it "Pangolo" for all I care. Like the writer said in that article- Inasmuch as Adam submitted to God and followed his instructions as best he could and God was pleased with him, that is Islam.

If God created a religion and reveal it's name to be islam to Mohammed how is it that He did not call it islam to Noah and the rest? Why is it never mentioned anywhere else apart from in the Quran?

Ahn Ahn!!, Are you not thinking? The forms passed by Noah, Abraham, Moses and Jesus (Peace be upon them) with the unifying message, your God is one, worship no one but him.

[b]Islam is not a new religion because "submission to the will of God", i.e. Islam, has always been the only acceptable religion in the sight of God. For this reason, Islam is the true "natural religion", and it is the same eternal message revealed through the ages to all of God's prophets and messengers. Muslims believe that all of God's prophets, which include Abraham, Noah, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, brought the same message of Pure Monotheism. For this reason, the Prophet Muhammad was not the founder of a new religion, as many people mistakenly think, but he was the Final Prophet of Islam. By revealing His final message to Muhammad, which is an eternal and universal message for all of mankind, God finally fulfilled the covenant that He made with Abraham, who was one of the earliest and greatest prophets. Suffice it to say that the way of Islam is the same as the way of the prophet Abraham, because both the Bible and the Qur'an portray Abraham as a towering example of someone who submitted himself completely to God and worshipped Him without intermediaries. Once this is realized, it should be clear that Islam has the most continuous and universal message of any religion, because all prophets and messengers were "Muslims", i.e. those who submitted to God's will, and they preached "Islam", i.e. submission to the will of Almighty God.[/b]

http://discover.islamway.com/articles.php?article_id=2

Simple question: if islam existed from the beginning what form where people practicing it because they sure didn't say they where practicing islam. Which other religion has similar mode of worship to islam?

Of course, the overwhelming majority of scriptures and Prophets before Muhammad(SAW)didn't come in Arabic neither were they Arabs. The previous scriptures that are known include the Torah, Injeel, Zaburah and now the Qur'an. Where are you headed?

Isn't it funny that a so called universal religion cannot be recognised even though it's supposed prophets all left well documented legacies? How is it the Torah and others are so different in tone from the Quran? Why are the differences so significantly different that we can not see the universality of it?

Answer these questions without attaching sentiments, don't get hot and bothered.

Mac n Ghazzal need to learn about atheist

https://www.nairaland.com/1081730/dealing-depression-suicidal-thoughts-atheist

Lord_Reed:

If God created a religion and reveal it's name to be islam to Mohammed how is it that He did not call it islam to Noah and the rest? Why is it never mentioned anywhere else apart from in the Quran?



Simple question: if islam existed from the beginning what form where people practicing it because they sure didn't say they where practicing islam. Which other religion has similar mode of worship to islam?



Isn't it funny that a so called universal religion cannot be recognised even though it's supposed prophets all left well documented legacies? How is it the Torah and others are so different in tone from the Quran? Why are the differences so significantly different that we can not see the universality of it?

Answer these questions without attaching sentiments, don't get hot and bothered.

Your questions are full of sentiments, go back to my definition of Islam. I will address the questions that are worth addressing later.

You are holding on to straws here: Cassius Clay became Muhammad Ali, I guess the two weren't born of the same parents and on the same day and aren't the same person. Even without addressing your questions properly, the false logic behind them is easily exposed.

maclatunji:

Your questions are full of sentiments, go back to my definition of Islam. I will address the questions that are worth addressing later.

You are holding on to straws here: Cassius Clay became Muhammad Ali, I guess the two weren't born of the same parents and on the same day and aren't the same person. Even without addressing your questions properly, the false logic behind them is easily exposed.

This is what we call "anonyism" in the religion section. Anonyism is when someone dodges a legitimate question or rebuttal to his stance!

Logicboy03:


This is what we call "anonyism" in the religion section. Anonyism is when someone dodges a legitimate question or rebuttal to his stance!

You know that my life is solely devoted to answering questions that have been proven to be irrational.

maclatunji:

You know that my life is solely devoted to answering questions that have been proven to be irrational.

[img]http://troll.me/images/futurama-fry/not-sure-if-sarcasm-defintely-trolling.jpg[/img]

maclatunji:

Your questions are full of sentiments, go back to my definition of Islam. I will address the questions that are worth addressing later.

You are holding on to straws here: Cassius Clay became Muhammad Ali, I guess the two weren't born of the same parents and on the same day and aren't the same person. Even without addressing your questions properly, the false logic behind them is easily exposed.

Kai! Muslims and their short fuses. Always ready to wage unnecessary war.

If you like don't answer I am done with this because I know that if I ask follow up questions it will turn to a shoot out. Simply inquiry will turn to beef, abeg I no dey jare.

Lord_Reed:

Kai! Muslims and their short fuses. Always ready to wage unnecessary war.

If you like don't answer I am done with this because I know that if I ask follow up questions it will turn to a shoot out. Simply inquiry will turn to beef, abeg I no dey jare.

I pointed-out the illogicality of your question. Which one is "war" there?

maclatunji:

I pointed-out the illogicality of your question. Which one is "war" there?

As Logicboy pointed out that is just a sly dodge and one calculated to insult, the second time you are doing that in your response to me. If I responded to you in kind you'd take offense and begin to display persecution paranoia.

Answer the questions or not, makes no difference as your true aim has been revealed. You are not here to educate you are here to put up a show so its left to you to go on or not.

We have told you the definition of Islam and I simply pointed out to you with a simple analogy that your insistence on the previous prophets (AS) speaking Arabic or calling their submission to the will of God "Islam" is illogical. I have said I intend to answer your questions that I find worthwhile later. You need to open your mind more for there's no argument you bring that cannot be debunked but I may choose to ignore it for I am an extremely busy person. Forget that I play on Nairaland.

maclatunji:

LOL. You have just tried to attack one way of looking at it. Mind you Logicboy brought out submission but he is absolutely right. However, like you said, the definition by itself is not good enough so wouldn't you love examples?

Shall we go to how the whole saga started? This thread is going to be veeeery staggered because I might not be able to attend to you as quickly as you want. However, you're learning fast- Whoever submits to God via His will and commandments is a Muslim. Don't worry with patience I will show you how. I must warn you though, I do limited Nairaland on Sundays

this is too generalized and a sneaky way islam has succeeded in appropriating jewish prophets by claiming they "submitted to God's will". Ifa priests submit to Ifa but are they muslims?

maclatunji: We have told you the definition of Islam and I simply pointed out to you with a simple analogy that your insistence on the previous prophets (AS) speaking Arabic or calling their submission to the will of God "Islam" is illogical.

Let me step in here.
If you think that is illogical, dont you think that the recitation of the koran in arabic alone is also illogical?

Reyginus: Let me step in here.
If you think that is illogical, dont you think that the recitation of the koran in arabic alone is also illogical?

LOL, who be dis and wetin e dey talk? There are over a hundred translations of the Qur'an in several languages. So?

davidylan:

this is too generalized and a sneaky way islam has succeeded in appropriating jewish prophets by claiming they "submitted to God's will".

This would actually be true if the Qur'an simply adopted what Jews said about their Prophets such as Solomon coveted another man's wife! Heck no, David (AS) did no such thing... He his highly respected by we Muslims as well as all the other prophets. In addition, there are references to other people that Jews never mentioned in the Qur'an such as Khidr who was a teacher to Moses and Luqman the wise. Christians say Jesus (AS) first miracle was that he turned water to wine, we Muslims reject this. If you say we have "appropriated" Jesus (AS). Tell us what we Muslims say is Jesus' (AS) first miracle that matches Jewish sources.

davidylan:
Ifa priests submit to Ifa but are they muslims?

There are other things involved here. Not only must you submit to God's will, you must not associate partners with God no matter how small you think it is. Ifa Priests see Ifa as a gateway to Eledumare. That's polytheism. Islam does not tolerate several gods or lesser gods that polytheists believe guide them to God. Read this again https://www.nairaland.com/1080985/what-did-not-know-islam#12646000

Then again, you must accept the message of the current Prophet of your time. It would be futile for an ethnic Jew to claim to follow Moses (AS) during the lifetime of Jesus (AS) just as it is futile to claim monotheism and submission to God without accepting the message of Prophet Muhammad (SAW)at this time. God makes the changes and it is part of submission to him that we comply. #Simple

@lord_reed

by Lord_Reed(m): 4:27pm On Oct 21

maclatunji:

Gra-gra plenty for una. If we agree that Islam is submission to God, then we have to define who God is and what His commandments really are because if you don't know who God is and what his commandments truly are. How can you truly submit to him?

However, following the drift of your argument. Yeah! It's possible to die as a Muslim and not know that you're already a Muslim just because of this definition of Islam.


Really? What a laugh. Anyways continue to answer the question I am all eyes.

@Sweetnecta
You really should learn how to stay coherent in your posts. You jumble up words so much I really can't get what you are saying.

As for the video I have not been able to watch it yet.

i know that my post is physics to your history mind. when you have not even watched the videos, it shows how serious you are to find the truth if islam predates judaism.

Like almost everybody else, you respect your name. You should do so, for your name means you. Your Maker made you that way, with that quality of self-respect. In this regard we image Him, for he too has self-respect. He respects his own name. We only have reason to appreciate this fact, for we remember the Ten Commandments Ex. 20:7.

If we make wrong use of God’s name, it plain that we do not respect the divine name. Then it must be that we respect our own personal name more than we respect that of God. Will our doing so work out in good for us? Not according to what God stated in the Third Commandment. Although most people do not realize it.

Spreader: Like almost everybody else, you respect your name. You should do so, for your name means you. Your Maker made you that way, with that quality of self-respect. In this regard we image Him, for he too has self-respect. He respects his own name. We only have reason to appreciate this fact, for we remember the Ten Commandments Ex. 20:7.

If we make wrong use of God’s name, it plain that we do not respect the divine name. Then it must be that we respect our own personal name more than we respect that of God. Will our doing so work out in good for us? Not according to what God stated in the Third Commandment. Although most people do not realize it.

@reyginus:

by Reyginus: Let me step in here.
If you think that is illogical, dont you think that the recitation of the koran in arabic alone is also illogical?

when you read the Quran in arabic it comes to live in your heart.


Allah The God Who made Adam from nothing but dirt and water to all that body holds, taught him and what man didnt know, taught him the use of the pen and made him a diverse collage of people and made the boat a safety for Noah and those who followed him, Abraham finding peace in the raging inferno and find God without compromising by accepting his family's idols, made journey all over the place and was under the Protection of God, raised Jacob as his elect regardless of all the deception of his mother and the tricks of stealing awes as recorded by the Bibles, made a victor out of non eloquent Moses, victor of little David over towering and seasoned warrior Goliath [the disbeliever], a father less Jesus a man of honor, this Allah made a fatherless Muhammad the orphan [as] a man with abundant Iman in his heart, not compromising with the Quraishi regardless of their efforts, That Allah opens the heart of reciters to understand Quran in Arabic, His Last Revelation.

After all before man had diverse tribes and languages, man had no ability to reason, understand. Man was even non existing then. I understand the Quran in arabic better the more I read it. It is made easier on my tongue, and before I die it will be as easy for me as Yoruba or English [InshaAllah].



@daidylan:

davidylan:

this is too generalized and a sneaky way islam has succeeded in appropriating jewish prophets by claiming they "submitted to God's will".

who was the first Jewish prophet? was there a single prophet before the first jewish prophet? Can you tell me how Moses was a religious jew considering how the jews conduct their prayers that you can observe if you see them at the wailing wall? Did Moses ever pray at the wailing wall or any prophet for that matter? How about your God Jesus: did he pray at the wailing wall while you bibles recorded him making Sujud all night long to his Master Allah azhawajal? I guess you have disqualified christianity by your statement above.

davidylan:
Ifa priests submit to Ifa but are they muslims?

submission to God is not the same as submission to gods which ifa is a god. Allah The Powerful does not bear ifa or Jesus or holy Spirit. Olorun is not ifa and you need to know that much. Muslims in the time of Abraham were known as hanifan; submitting to Allah an do not compromise by disobeying Him [Ibrahim submitted even to the slaughter of his son [as to both of them] and not adding god to God [Ibrahim rejected the god of his family and gods of places he lived after].

Maclatunji, that's not the point.
The point is, If trully other prophets were muslims, why was Arabic(the language of muhammed) taken as the universal language of muslims?

@sweetneckta. Does it mean that reciting the koran in any other language beside arabic, is ineffective?

Lord_Reed:

If God created a religion and reveal it's name to be islam to Mohammed how is it that He did not call it islam to Noah and the rest? Why is it never mentioned anywhere else apart from in the Quran?

if Islam is Arabic word, is Noah an Arab? it has been stressed what Islam means and it is evident that all prophets adhered by it so this Question is just not relevant again.

Simple question: if islam existed from the beginning what form where people practicing it because they sure didn't say they where practicing islam. Which other religion has similar mode of worship to islam?

All prophets bowed to God in worship. only muslims do that today..... have you asked why?

Salat: check nehimiah 8:6....... this shows that people have been praying like muslims do long before Muhammed(saw)

Fast: Zakariah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus all fasted. check Jeremiah 36:9, it was in the 9th month as well

Hajj is a remembrance of an event in Abrahams time.

Faith of cause is what all prophets preached. Faith in God the creator only as in Islam

Washing of face/hand/leg was evidently practiced by Jesus.

it is clear that most of what Muslims do today have long been practiced by one prophet or another. Muhammed was the seal of prophethood. kind-of summarised what all prophets have come to establish and delivered it to the whole world.

Isn't it funny that a so called universal religion cannot be recognised even though it's supposed prophets all left well documented legacies? How is it the Torah and others are so different in tone from the Quran? Why are the differences so significantly different that we can not see the universality of it?

You can best answer this, why did you still refuse to heed when you can differentiate right from wrong? there are many like you. the fact is everyone who cares to see and understand truely recognise the religion. ask yourselve what does the Torah and others say and what makes them different from the Quran

isnt it clear why the Question should be ignored!!!

@reyginus:

by Reyginus(m): 1:10pm
@sweetneckta. Does it mean that reciting the koran in any other language beside arabic, is ineffective?

do you know what it means to be obedience? reciting Quran in the language it was revealed, recited by the one who it was revealed to [as], recited by his companions [ra] in that language and the chain has not been broken since, including the styles of recitation is obedience.

there is always reward in obedience and it is the other side of disobedience that could result in punishment, at least rejection of said action.

listen to this recitation. per chance it may affect your heart:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DpJj0EUithQ

Reyginus: Maclatunji, that's not the point.
The point is, If trully other prophets were muslims, why was Arabic(the language of muhammed) taken as the universal language of muslims?

Simple, other Prophets were sent to a particular nation. Muhammad(SAW)was sent to the entire world. It is on record that he sent letters to major leaders of the ancient world asking that they and their subjects become Muslims after letting them know what the basics of Islam are. Arabic would naturally be the lingua franca in such a united nation of people globally who have submitted to the will of God. I hope this is not too difficult for you to understand. If God had chosen Muhammad (SAW) to be Yoruba and revealed the Qur'an in Yoruba, it would be the official language of Muslims. There is no biggie in this.

davidylan:

this is too generalized and a sneaky way islam has succeeded in appropriating jewish prophets by claiming they "submitted to God's will". Ifa priests submit to Ifa but are they muslims?

Look at what your bible says about Abraham, Mosesa and Jesus. That they all prostrate to Almighty God as form of Worship:

JESUS
" and he went a little farther and fell on his face and prayed,”
(Matthew 26:39)

2) MOSES AND AARON:
"then Moses and Aaron went away from the assaembly to the entrance of the tent and fell on their faces, "
(numbers 20:6)


3) ABRAHAM
"And Abram fell on his face,
(Genesis 17:3)


4) JOSHUA
", and Joshua fell on his face to the earth and did worship, "
(Joshua 5:14)

Can you honestly tell us which religion has prostration as the a cardinal form of worship?

Also do we have record of any of the prophets that came before Jesus preaching the doctrine of Trinity?

maclatunji:

Simple, other Prophets were sent to a particular nation. Muhammad(SAW)was sent to the entire world. It is on record that he sent letters to major leaders of the ancient world asking that they and their subjects become Muslims after letting them know what the basics of Islam are. Arabic would naturally be the lingua franca in such a united nation of people globally who have submitted to the will of God. I hope this is not too difficult for you to understand. If God had chosen Muhammad (SAW) to be Yoruba and revealed the Qur'an in Yoruba, it would be the official language of Muslims. There is no biggie in this.

The bold is a lie. Muhammed never wrote to all the great leaders- he only wrote to a few


Who did Muhammad contact in the Americas? Uruaguay? Peru? What about Mexico? Islam didnt reach those place for close to a thousand years


Arabs had been trading with China before Muhammad's time. China had a great civiliation. Guess what? It was after Muhammads death that islam came to china- about 20 years. He had never contacted the Chinese himself.

abubello:

Look at what your bible says about Abraham, Mosesa and Jesus. That they all prostrate to Almighty God as form of Worship:

JESUS
" and he went a little farther and fell on his face and prayed,”
(Matthew 26:39)

2) MOSES AND AARON:
"then Moses and Aaron went away from the assaembly to the entrance of the tent and fell on their faces, "
(numbers 20:6)


3) ABRAHAM
"And Abram fell on his face,
(Genesis 17:3)


4) JOSHUA
", and Joshua fell on his face to the earth and did worship, "
(Joshua 5:14)

Can you honestly tell us which religion has prostration as the a cardinal form of worship?

Also do we have record of any of the prophets that came before Jesus preaching the doctrine of Trinity?

These christians praying on christmas are also muslims


[img]http://www.salvemariaregina.info/SalveMariaRegina/SMR-162/Christmas%20Prostration.jpg[/img]

Logicboy03:



These christians praying on christmas are also muslims


[img]http://www.salvemariaregina.info/SalveMariaRegina/SMR-162/Christmas%20Prostration.jpg[/img]

I asked two questions instead of responding to them you are asking me another question! i said which religion has prostration as a cardinal form of worship. we have millions of christians in Nigeria how they dont prostrate to to God like Abraham, Jesus and Moses.

By the way you didnt respond to the issue of trinity raised in my earlier post