Logicboy03:


If a behaviour is irrational and I call it irrational, doesnt that make sense? I laid out a clear and concise argument showing the failed rationalizations of being more "christian" than the British.


Jeez, try harder with your false equivalence!

Quite funny then that when i call a point of view dishonest/absurd (because that is exactly what it is with reason)... you balk but have no problems projecting your own negative opinions on others?

Look we could go back and forth all night - my point is simple, why are you bothered really about the private religious opinions of millions who dont even matter to you? Is there something that troubles you about it?

ifebosco: how my eyes opened about religion,,,i was raced up in a very strong christian home, 10years ago i brought my parents to spain,(madrid)to live withme for some time and my mother usually goes to church every day for her morning prayers.so while going to church she made her own friends who speaks english.after about two years of attending church everyday she discovered that the church is always full up with people of her age.mostly retired and old people,so my mother one day walked up to the father and ask him this question.father please, why since over two years i have been coming to church and i don´t see many youths on weekly days for church activities??The father told my mother that, the youths are working building the their nation and the old ones are in churchs to beg GOD for forgiveness to their sins,my mother was confused with the answer. two months later i took my parents to visite vatican city,my mother saw with her two eyes how pope and his cardinals enjoylife.my mother cameback from rome more confused and filed betrayed by the so called catholic hierarchy.


my take on this mater is that, please fellow nigerians the opium that the whiteman and arabs brought to us to distract us from the real problem THAT WE HAVE is call ((RELIGION)))Until we free ourselfs from this madness call religion,we are going to remain under developED country for live.now is the time to ask our government to provide us social amenities.open your eyes brothers.GOD BLESS AFRICA

One thing you did not reason, Europe did not get to where they are without religion. If your mother should ask questions from the elderly people of Europe, she will observed that youth used to attend church some decades ago. What you have now is loss of faith in the western world.

God will get the peoples' attention again, including the youth. It might be immediate, it might take a while. In the bible, God allowed the Isrealites to suffer each time they abandoned Him. When they came to their senses, He restored their blessings.

The old men you see today and their great grandparents built Europe, they attended church in their youth days and even produced a lot of priest such that some were sent to third world. Now, the current youth of Europe are blinded and distracted by circularism, por.nography, etc, such that they have lost faith. Churches have since been closing, priests are short. On the other hand, the European youth of today is facing hardship and unemployment their parents didn't have in their time. Where jobs are available, they are mostly low paying jobs and part time which are heavily taxed. Austerity measures are the order of the day. You have to let your mum see this other aspect too. The western world is gradually being punished by God for their abandonment of Him.

Finally, tell your mum to read Mathew 24, and she will understand the current world situation better.

davidylan:

that's what you think. If it were just that then atheists would not be here night and day trying so hard to convince others of the validity of their point of view. You've been on an evangelism crusade here in the last 1 yrs... far more zealous than most christians... and you decieve yourself that you're not a religion? bro common now.

Evangelism? See how you project your religion unto atheism? Evangelism is a christian doctrine.

Have I promoted one atheist book or organization? Frosbel and co post far more topics than I do.


Furthermore, atheists are here to share their frustrations coming from the bigotry of you theists! Please, dont act foolish here. Your christian and muslim brothers discriminate at us with ease. They refuse to acknowledge us as fellow human being and let us live our atheist lives freely!


Ask yourself, would logicboy have anything to complain about religion if many religious people werent bigots and the holy books perfect?

davidylan:

Quite funny then that when i call a point of view dishonest/absurd (because that is exactly what it is with reason)... you balk but have no problems projecting your own negative opinions on others?

Look we could go back and forth all night - my point is simple, why are you bothered really about the private religious opinions of millions who dont even matter to you? Is there something that troubles you about it?

[size=18pt]Private? Did you just Fecking say PRIVATE?[/size]



You are a sick, disgusting and disingenuous douchebag christian! If religion was a private matter would there be need to call for secularism? When atheists are discriminated against for their disbelief?

Do you think I care about people's belief that dont affect me? I dont but when they are carried into the public to call atheist "unpatriotic", "fools", "evil" etc. Do you not see on a daily basis how many people say that they dont trust atheists? How many parents say that they wont let their children play with atheist children?

What about work place discrimination against atheists?

What about jduges denying custody on the basis of being an atheist?



Religion has never been private but an intolerant public problem!

Logicboy03:



[size=18pt]Private? Did you just Fecking say PRIVATE?[/size]



You are a sick, disgusting and disingenuous douchebag christian! If religion was a private matter would there be need to call for secularism? When atheists are discriminated against for their disbelief?

Do you think I care about people's belief that dont affect me? I dont but when they are carried into the public to call atheist "unpatriotic", "fools", "evil" etc. Do you not see on a daily basis how many people say that they dont trust atheists? How many parents say that they wont let their children play with atheist children?

What about work place discrimination against atheists?

What about jduges denying custody on the basis of being an atheist?



Religion has never been private but an intolerant public problem!

All these for me?

Bro lets be honest here... christians could just as easily cry that their kids cant play with muslim kids either but is this really the reason you espouse so much bile against christians? that folks call you unpatriotic? To be honest i believe secularism (it has always existed anyway) is rising because there are some who feel threatened by religion and wish to see it destroyed.

I'm sure you can live a life free of religion... we do not live around you neither do we stop our kids from playing with yours so exactly what do you achieve by being here? I would suppose your neighbours might be a good place to start no?

davidylan:

All these for me?

Bro lets be honest here... christians could just as easily cry that their kids cant play with muslim kids either but is this really the reason you espouse so much bile against christians? that folks call you unpatriotic? To be honest i believe secularism (it has always existed anyway) is rising because there are some who feel threatened by religion and wish to see it destroyed.

I'm sure you can live a life free of religion... we do not live around you neither do we stop our kids from playing with yours so exactly what do you achieve by being here? I would suppose your neighbours might be a good place to start no?

At bold, see the lies you have to conjure to minimize real suffering by atheists? You are sick! Is that the case?


I also like how you ignored the workplace discrimination and even discrimination in courts of law to deny the other little things that really happen.


Address the issues I raised

-Workplace discrimination against atheists. Bigotry in the military, lack of promotions, wrongful terminations etc

-Judges using atheism as a factor in denying sutody


You are sick!

Sam Milla: Logicboy, there is something you need to consider here. More than 90 percent of Christians in Nigeria cannot locate Britain on a map. They cannot even locate anywhere in Europe if not labelled.
80 percent of them cannot tell the differences between Britain and Germany or Russia.

Lets come back to Nigeria, A proverb says that 'he who does not know where the rain started beating him, will not know where it stopped '. Telling them where christianity came is confusing them. Most of them still think that Israel is somewhere in the sky.

Most of the Nigerian educated Men know the truth about Religion and they really dont want to go to our Churches here. But one thing or the other will drag them there.
I was chating with a young girl two days ago about marriage. She summerized her own dream marriage by emphasizing on a wonderful Church Wedding and when i asked her 'what if i am not interested in Church wedding' , she was almost like 'could that be possible'.

Now church has crept deeply into our culture and hung its claws there.
The society around you sees you as a witch, devil etc if you dont go to church. It is almost like the medieval Europe. Our time to say goodbye to church will come but we first need Education. Education creates mental independence which allows one to think for himself. And when we are able to think for ourselves, then we will all know what church is all about.

And that's the great SAM MILLA -thanks for that piece.

Logicboy03:



At bold, see the lies you have to conjure to minimize real suffering by atheists? You are sick! Is that the case?


I also like how you ignored the workplace discrimination and even discrimination in courts of law to deny the other little things that really happen.


Address the issues I raised

-Workplace discrimination against atheists. Bigotry in the military, lack of promotions, wrongful terminations etc

-Judges using atheism as a factor in denying sutody


You are sick!

Last time i checked, wearing of religious artifacts are banned in the workplace (at least christian artifacts). traditional easter/christmas plays have been stopped in public schools... merry christmas is now against the law in public schools and work areas... what "discrimination" were you talking about again? enlighten me please.

davidylan:

Last time i checked, wearing of religious artifacts are banned in the workplace (at least christian artifacts). traditional easter/christmas plays have been stopped in public schools... merry christmas is now against the law in public schools and work areas... what "discrimination" were you talking about again? enlighten me please.

You must be foolish!

In the UK or America, religious artifacts are either all representing of all faiths or removed totally from public space. Either all faiths are represented or all are removed. It is not only christianity that is affected by this. No one is allowed to hang a voodoo doll or a ritual skull just like crucifixes are not allowed.

Equal representation or treatment is what you have a problem with?




You then compare this to personal suffering at work and in private life of atheists? Are you suffering because they dont allow christmas parades in public offices? Or is the atheist suffering when he gets fired wrongly or his children are treated as Satan's minions?

Logicboy03:



You must be foolish!

In the UK or America, religious artifacts are either all representing of all faiths or removed totally from public space. Either all faiths are represented or all are removed. It is not only christianity that is affected by this. No one is allowed to hang a voodoo doll or a ritual skull just like crucifixes are not allowed.

Equal representation or treatment is what you have a problem with?




You then compare this to personal suffering at work and in private life of atheists? Are you suffering because they dont allow christmas parades in public offices? Or is the atheist suffering when he gets fired wrongly or his children are treated as Satan's minions?

I'm not sure you read my post well. I have no problem with rules that curtail religious activity in the workplace... it is paid for by taxpayers and some of them are not religious so that is only fair. But i wonder what this "personal suffering" it is that you talk about that atheists suffer at work? who is making them suffer and have they no legal authority to fight for their rights? I know the ACLU exists here for that reason. Is a forum the right place to bring your complaints?

davidylan:

I'm not sure you read my post well. I have no problem with rules that curtail religious activity in the workplace... it is paid for by taxpayers and some of them are not religious so that is only fair. But i wonder what this "personal suffering" it is that you talk about that atheists suffer at work? who is making them suffer and have they no legal authority to fight for their rights? I know the ACLU exists here for that reason. Is a forum the right place to bring your complaints?

Do you think fighting legal battles after you have been fired is easy? Why are you gaddem heartless? The physical and emotional stress do come in.

Do you think that the ACLU just picks up cases the minute you have a problem?


Are you denying that atheists have been refused promotions or even employment in offices?



From ignorance to denail.


Christians, can you see your problems?

Logicboy03:


Do you think fighting legal battles after you have been fired is easy? Why are you gaddem heartless? The physical and emotional stress do come in.

Do you think that the ACLU just picks up cases the minute you have a problem?


Are you denying that atheists have been refused promotions or even employment in offices?



From ignorance to denail.


Christians, can you see your problems?

Maybe in nigeria... this does not happen in serious countries, one of which you reside in so what is the issue? I dont remember including "religion" on my resume and most people i work with could care less if i was muslim or summerian.

davidylan:

Maybe in nigeria... this does not happen in serious countries, one of which you reside in so what is the issue? I dont remember including "religion" on my resume and most people i work with could care less if i was muslim or summerian.

Are you foolish? I was talking exclusively about the USA knowing the kind of patriotic fool you are!





http://www.atheistrev.com/2009/11/atheists-face-discrimination-in-us.html
http://www.examiner.com/article/religion-the-workplace-an-atheist-s-battle-against-discrimination-pt-1

Bringing rationality, logic, or whatever so called scientific / empirical nonsense does not and will never mix with religious christianity...

We've seen the consequence of abandoning religion on Europe and America...and i find the suggestion that we must dump God simply because Britain has to be most absurd.

If God put all of Nigeria's natural resources there, the most sensible thing to do is to turn to God for direction on how to exploit those resources for the common good of Nigeria and not to follow after Britain.

Logicboy03:


Are you foolish? I was talking exclusively about the USA knowing the kind of patriotic fool you are!





http://www.atheistrev.com/2009/11/atheists-face-discrimination-in-us.html
http://www.examiner.com/article/religion-the-workplace-an-atheist-s-battle-against-discrimination-pt-1

your examples are odd. Lets start from the second link - obviously this was a private practice. Unfortunately the government has very limited control over that... the lady in question could have worked elsewhere. There are millions of atheists here in America who would not hire muslims anyway.

Now to the first link - it didnt really say anything meaningful. the part i found hilarious was this - The mainstream media in the U.S. regularly excludes atheists, even from stories about atheism, while giving voice to religious believers. Unless they are refering to Fox news as the "mainstream media" then i believe there are countless media sources that advance the atheist cause. For example - Bill Maher is a well known atheist who regularly used HBO, MSNBC and others to plug his book - religulous.

DJTee: Bringing rationality, logic, or whatever so called scientific / empirical nonsense does not and will never mix with religious christianity...

We've seen the consequence of abandoning religion on Europe and America...and i find the suggestion that we must dump God simply because Britain has to be most absurd.

If God put all of Nigeria's natural resources there, the most sensible thing to do is to turn to God for direction on how to exploit those resources for the common good of Nigeria and not to follow after Britain.

You are really brainwashed.


If christianity will not accept rationality, logic and empirical evidence, wouldn't that make christianity and irrational and illogical?



Secondly are you complaining about Europe and America, when your country is nothing compared to theirs?



Look at the most advanced nation and see wheter religion is taken seriously there

davidylan:

your examples are odd. Lets start from the second link - obviously this was a private practice. Unfortunately the government has very limited control over that... the lady in question could have worked elsewhere. There are millions of atheists here in America who would not hire muslims anyway.

What did I tell you against projection? It is the fundamentalist christians in America that HATE "muzzies" especially. Please find me example fo athesits discriminating against muslims.


The second example of that woman being discriminated against at the workplace is a clear cut case. So what are you arguing there? wicked fool! No sympathy for a woman being fired for no other reason than her husband blogging about his atheism?

davidylan:
Now to the first link - it didnt really say anything meaningful. the part i found hilarious was this - The mainstream media in the U.S. regularly excludes atheists, even from stories about atheism, while giving voice to religious believers. Unless they are refering to Fox news as the "mainstream media" then i believe there are countless media sources that advance the atheist cause. For example - Bill Maher is a well known atheist who regularly used HBO, MSNBC and others to plug his book - religulous.

Are you retarded? The black pastors on MSNBC and NBC are what? atheists? All networks have to pander to the christian population who demand Jesus at every turn

For every Bill Maher, there are many Ann Coulters!



Now unto the first link the first link listed examples of bigorty in the military and in employment with further links and you ignored that? You are a wicked fool

Logicboy,

I think you got a lot of things wrong; no offences meant.

Nigeria, in terms of government and constitution, is as secular as Britain. We also run the same democracy; which has you know its own challenges.

In terms of religion, both countries still have the freedom of worship and religion clause in their constitutions. SO you can choose to be Christian, Muslim, Atheist, etc, whatever is convenient for you. Nobody will throw you in jail for not being a follower of a particular religion.

And finally, I live in the UK, and attend RCCG partly and, due to location changes sometimes, I also attend a church with loads of Britons and headed by strong British believers as the Senior Ministers and so on. The Church still does regular Outreaches to Mali, Kenya, France, Brazil, Columbia, and Germany. And a lot of Outreaches to states within the UK regularly. You can visit http://www.kt.org

Yes many upcoming generation, Youths and children, detest Christianity and Jesus. Many don't even know who Jesus is, they think he is Santa Claus who comes around at Christmas. This is because many Atheists and Boogieman believers have infiltrated the system and put some 'subtle' restrictions on true religious teachings of Christianity.

What is the result? At the moment the British society is in a complete mess. The citizens and youths are messed up morally and socially. The Government is crying out for help as they can not cope and not sure of the solution. Some months ago the Prime Minister David Cameron has to remind everyone on national media that Britain is a Christian State. Lots of Charities and Christian organisations are being encouraged to help with solving the societal and moral problems that are plaguing the populace. Do you know that statistics of regular Murders, Violence, and not to talk of people jumping in front of moving Trains daily? It is Scary. It is a normal thing now for my journey to work to be delayed due to 'Person Under a Train'. The sane people here knows that the Country needs to go back to 'basics'.

And these same British generation are willing to try out any other religion: Hindu, Voodoo, Witchcraft, Satanism, Budha, Snake Worship, Haloween, 'Harry Porter Religions' and so on in their bid to seek something higher that themselves. Anything but 'Christianity'. Or should I say 'anything but salvation thru JESUS Christ'. And why Because they do not want a 'Religion' that points out the 'Wickedness' in their Heart and constantly urging them to change and be righteous. Nooo, they don't want that Corrective religion. People want to be 'free'; free to do whatever they like. That is why Christianity is hated; probably by you too.

Logicboy, this topic is complex. So please leave it there. People freely want to believe in the existence, and they seek, higher spiritual powers. Many do Palm reading, Fortune telling, Ouija Boards, etc, etc, many others take refuge in Ecstasy and Hard Drugs to feel high. But they refuse to accommodate the 'logic' that 'what if' there is also the existence of a Master Spiritual Being who is the Source of all things Physical and Spiritual, and who Governs and will eventually Judge all things.

Until we all get back to right standing with God, we will never stop searching. Britain today is enjoying and leaving off the rich inheritance and Foundation left for them by their Believing Christian Fore-fathers. And as it happens a lot of times when way-ward upcoming generations take possession of such inheritance and squander everything in riotous living; so we see the British and indeed many other European Societies and Economies getting damaged, going downwards and downhill as they refuse The Truth. Many people are now leaving the UK and going back to their Countries. Why? people now see more prospects and security in their countries than in the UK system. And their Countries have more 'Religion'.

Whatever you think is working, outside the so called Christianity, is but shadows bro.

Logicboy03: The UK has a christian history but it is now very much a secular state. The British were the ones that brought christianity to Nigeria and yet Nigerians are now even more christian than the British.


I want to ask honest people on Nairaland a simple question;


[size=18pt]If someone came to your house to convince you that you should buy Mazda cars and you agree to buy a Mazda car in the near future but on going to the person's house, you find that the person is mostly driving Mercedes Benz, would you continue to trust his statement on Mazdas?[/size]



The above bold question highlights a cognitive dissonance of many Nigerians. They carry their Christianity to Britain without realizing or asking why the British have mostly dropped the Christianity that they gave Nigeria. They dont even bother to ask why church attendance is so low in Britain and why over a third of the British are atheists/agnostics.


Here are some foolish rationalizations made by the average Nigerian christian;

-The British are less moral than us Christian Nigerians (Really? with your witch beating, tithe frauds, high level of corruption and embezzlement?)

-God is using us to bring religion to UK (Really? then why did God not bring christianity to Nigeria before the British and in more peaceful ways than slavery/colonization of Nigeria by the british?)

-Africans are more spiritual and sensible than the British/Europeans (Really? when you import many things from the British? When theBritish have a more stable and organised society? Has you spirituality helped Nigeria to achieve such?)


would like christians to comment on this topic, especially Mr Anony that lives in the UK. We both went to a debate about abortion in London, only to find that Anony was in the serious minority when talking about abortion from a christian religious/moral perspective

My dear, it is ERRONEOUS to say that christianity is a british religion, it is NOT. The british are converts just as we Africans are. They were pagans before being converted by the Romans.
Also, if you are really a Christian (I don't know if you are) you should be happy that the British brought salvation into our lives. A true christian would feel sorry for the british who have lost their faith and pray that they would find God once more, instead of wasting his/her precious time wondering why 'africans are more christian than the british'
As if it is a thing of shame to be called a christian.

But mind you, although I am a Christian and support the Christian beliefs, I am a very rational human being. I do not support Churches that are set up to subtly milk people of their monies and livelihoods. This type of Christianity will also be judged in time. As Christians, God has given us wisdom to be able to discern what is right and wrong, and to know that 'by their fruits, you shall know them'.

But all in all, over the years, I have come to the realisation that only a genuine and on-going encounter with Jesus Christ and the Gospel of Grace, is able to deliver a man from wickedness and all his evil tendencies. And only this encounter can truly satisfy. You will always keep searching and never feel complete or whole, until you have this encounter and experience. This in itself is another mystery.

davidylan:

Quite funny then that when i call a point of view dishonest/absurd (because that is exactly what it is with reason)... you balk but have no problems projecting your own negative opinions on others?

Look we could go back and forth all night - my point is simple, why are you bothered really about the private religious opinions of millions who dont even matter to you? Is there something that troubles you about it?

HE HAS A gOD COMPLEX, OR MORE APPROPRIATE IN HIS CASE, HE HAS A SATAN COMPLEX. HE WANTS CONTROL OVER PEOPLES LIVES.

Wow I wonder why it was so easy for mods to lock up my thread on probable gayness of atheism for obvious reasons that remain obscure and yet find this uninspiring unintelligible unintellectual and mudane thread not worthy of locking?

Any case the OP is indeed a non started, in essence we should stop capitalism the day the west turns its back on capitalism? We should in the same vein reverse secularity the day the West finds the system no longer useful to their development? In fact the thread makes case for us to reject Science and its principles the very day white man rejects such. Please someone tell the OP to think before he post! That British are no longer as fervent in their practice of Christianity does not mean others should turn their back from. To request such means that atheists in Nigeria are nothing more than slaves to their own inferiority complex and as such project such inferiority to others expecting that we should not reason before we act, we should simply follow the white man. Sir sorry we act based on our consciousness and that demands that the black man swag makes belief in God inherent, being an atheist is unAfrican. I might be force to sustain the dymistification of atheism,as threads to address the inferiority component of atheism seems long overdue. My rebutal means even if I do not accept certain aspects of Christianity, I take it a religious duty to repel the lies and promotion of anti - religious nature of poorly reasoned threads like these. It is a duty of any worshiper of God or one who believes in a supreme diety to reject the evil nature of the threads that seeks to belittle the black man and promote ungodly behavior like homosexuality etc .

jagun007: Logicboy,

I think you got a lot of things wrong; no offences meant.

Nigeria, in terms of government and constitution, is as secular as Britain. We also run the same democracy; which has you know its own challenges.

In terms of religion, both countries still have the freedom of worship and religion clause in their constitutions. SO you can choose to be Christian, Muslim, Atheist, etc, whatever is convenient for you. Nobody will throw you in jail for not being a follower of a particular religion.

And finally, I live in the UK, and attend RCCG partly and, due to location changes sometimes, I also attend a church with loads of Britons and headed by strong British believers as the Senior Ministers and so on. The Church still does regular Outreaches to Mali, Kenya, France, Brazil, Columbia, and Germany. And a lot of Outreaches to states within the UK regularly. You can visit http://www.kt.org

Yes many upcoming generation, Youths and children, detest Christianity and Jesus. Many don't even know who Jesus is, they think he is Santa Claus who comes around at Christmas. This is because many Atheists and Boogieman believers have infiltrated the system and put some 'subtle' restrictions on true religious teachings of Christianity.

What is the result? At the moment the British society is in a complete mess. The citizens and youths are messed up morally and socially. The Government is crying out for help as they can not cope and not sure of the solution. Some months ago the Prime Minister David Cameron has to remind everyone on national media that Britain is a Christian State. Lots of Charities and Christian organisations are being encouraged to help with solving the societal and moral problems that are plaguing the populace. Do you know that statistics of regular Murders, Violence, and not to talk of people jumping in front of moving Trains daily? It is Scary. It is a normal thing now for my journey to work to be delayed due to 'Person Under a Train'. The sane people here knows that the Country needs to go back to 'basics'.

And these same British generation are willing to try out any other religion: Hindu, Voodoo, Witchcraft, Satanism, Budha, Snake Worship, Haloween, 'Harry Porter Religions' and so on in their bid to seek something higher that themselves. Anything but 'Christianity'. Or should I say 'anything but salvation thru JESUS Christ'. And why Because they do not want a 'Religion' that points out the 'Wickedness' in their Heart and constantly urging them to change and be righteous. Nooo, they don't want that Corrective religion. People want to be 'free'; free to do whatever they like. That is why Christianity is hated; probably by you too.

Logicboy, this topic is complex. So please leave it there. People freely want to believe in the existence, and they seek, higher spiritual powers. Many do Palm reading, Fortune telling, Ouija Boards, etc, etc, many others take refuge in Ecstasy and Hard Drugs to feel high. But they refuse to accommodate the 'logic' that 'what if' there is also the existence of a Master Spiritual Being who is the Source of all things Physical and Spiritual, and who Governs and will eventually Judge all things.

Until we all get back to right standing with God, we will never stop searching. Britain today is enjoying and leaving off the rich inheritance and Foundation left for them by their Believing Christian Fore-fathers. And as it happens a lot of times when way-ward upcoming generations take possession of such inheritance and squander everything in riotous living; so we see the British and indeed many other European Societies and Economies getting damaged, going downwards and downhill as they refuse The Truth. Many people are now leaving the UK and going back to their Countries. Why? people now see more prospects and security in their countries than in the UK system. And their Countries have more 'Religion'.

Whatever you think is working, outside the so called Christianity, is but shadows bro.

I am further enlightened. Well done man.

jagun007: But mind you, although I am a Christian and support the Christian beliefs, I am a very rational human being. I do not support Churches that are set up to subtly milk people of their monies and livelihoods. This type of Christianity will also be judged in time. As Christians, God has given us wisdom to be able to discern what is right and wrong, and to know that 'by their fruits, you shall know them'.

But all in all, over the years, I have come to the realisation that only a genuine and on-going encounter with Jesus Christ and the Gospel of Grace, is able to deliver a man from wickedness and all his evil tendencies. And only this encounter can truly satisfy. You will always keep searching and never feel complete or whole, until you have this encounter and experience. This in itself is another mystery.

Another like again.

The moderator Should refresh this topic at the top of front page so that people can be further enlightened.

jagun007: Logicboy,

I think you got a lot of things wrong; no offences meant.

Nigeria, in terms of government and constitution, is as secular as Britain. We also run the same democracy; which has you know its own challenges.

In terms of religion, both countries still have the freedom of worship and religion clause in their constitutions. SO you can choose to be Christian, Muslim, Atheist, etc, whatever is convenient for you. Nobody will throw you in jail for not being a follower of a particular religion.

You miss the most glaring issue of the thread. But hey, no surprises.

Sharia would be illegal if Nigeria had a clear cut separation of church and state enshrine its law. Britain has that- separation of church and state and that is why the government does not fund churches, mosques and their pilgrimage.

Another facet of separation of church and state that many people ignore is the freedom of and from religion. The government or state should protect its citizens from religious persecution.


In Southern Nigeria, we are free to be whatever religion you want to be. However, anything other than christianity will make you to be seen as a devil or devil worshiper resulting in discrimination that should be illegal but the state will do nothing agaisnt.

jagun007:
And finally, I live in the UK, and attend RCCG partly and, due to location changes sometimes, I also attend a church with loads of Britons and headed by strong British believers as the Senior Ministers and so on. The Church still does regular Outreaches to Mali, Kenya, France, Brazil, Columbia, and Germany. And a lot of Outreaches to states within the UK regularly. You can visit http://www.kt.org

You christians cant stop evangelizing! I am a god disbelieving atheist and loving it!

jagun007:
Yes many upcoming generation, Youths and children, detest Christianity and Jesus. Many don't even know who Jesus is, they think he is Santa Claus who comes around at Christmas. This is because many Atheists and Boogieman believers have infiltrated the system and put some 'subtle' restrictions on true religious teachings of Christianity.

Are you crazy? It is you christians that have driven your youths away from the church with your hypocrisy and contradictions.


The youth of today have access to knowledge on the internet. Yesterday, a 15 year old boy was making fun of a street evangelist- the 15 year old was asking the street preacher why women have secondary rights according to Paul in the bible who says that women should be silent in church?



What about the teachings in the old testamnet? That we should kill witches, stone gays, stone people that dont go to sabbath and the rest?


What about slavery in the bible?


The bible itself isa book of immorality. Just read the racism that Jesus did to the Caananite woman by telling her that he came for only the lost sheep of isreal and then calling her a dog before healing her child!

Please, blame your failures on your religion

jagun007:
What is the result? At the moment the British society is in a complete mess. The citizens and youths are messed up morally and socially. The Government is crying out for help as they can not cope and not sure of the solution. Some months ago the Prime Minister David Cameron has to remind everyone on national media that Britain is a Christian State. Lots of Charities and Christian organisations are being encouraged to help with solving the societal and moral problems that are plaguing the populace. Do you know that statistics of regular Murders, Violence, and not to talk of people jumping in front of moving Trains daily? It is Scary. It is a normal thing now for my journey to work to be delayed due to 'Person Under a Train'. The sane people here knows that the Country needs to go back to 'basics'.

The british society is in far less of a mess than Nigeria. Crime is far less in Britian than America or Nigeria (albeit smaller population). You live in the poorer urban areas that is why. I have live in the country side and also in the proper parts of south west and North london and children there are very reserved.


Children in the UK are taught to question and so they would be as calm as Nigerian children.

jagun007:
And these same British generation are willing to try out any other religion: Hindu, Voodoo, Witchcraft, Satanism, Budha, Snake Worship, Haloween, 'Harry Porter Religions' and so on in their bid to seek something higher that themselves. Anything but 'Christianity'. Or should I say 'anything but salvation thru JESUS Christ'. And why Because they do not want a 'Religion' that points out the 'Wickedness' in their Heart and constantly urging them to change and be righteous. Nooo, they don't want that Corrective religion. People want to be 'free'; free to do whatever they like. That is why Christianity is hated; probably by you too.

Who is trying out hindu? They are more tolerant and remember that britain is far more multicultural than Nigeria.


Why is your own religion better than these mentioned religion? Isnt that a sign of hidden bigotry? hmm

Concerning freedom, yes, I want to be free! Free from faith based morality in the bible that tells me that women should be silent in churches and that I do not know love or goodness without religion or that I should stone people who dont go to the sabbath


I want a morality based on common sense and not what some Jewish Zombie that claims to love the world and yet did not even visit 75% of it including Nigeria has to say!

jagun007:
Logicboy, this topic is complex. So please leave it there. People freely want to believe in the existence, and they seek, higher spiritual powers. Many do Palm reading, Fortune telling, Ouija Boards, etc, etc, many others take refuge in Ecstasy and Hard Drugs to feel high. But they refuse to accommodate the 'logic' that 'what if' there is also the existence of a Master Spiritual Being who is the Source of all things Physical and Spiritual, and who Governs and will eventually Judge all things.

Until we all get back to right standing with God, we will never stop searching. Britain today is enjoying and leaving off the rich inheritance and Foundation left for them by their Believing Christian Fore-fathers. And as it happens a lot of times when way-ward upcoming generations take possession of such inheritance and squander everything in riotous living; so we see the British and indeed many other European Societies and Economies getting damaged, going downwards and downhill as they refuse The Truth. Many people are now leaving the UK and going back to their Countries. Why? people now see more prospects and security in their countries than in the UK system. And their Countries have more 'Religion'.

Whatever you think is working, outside the so called Christianity, is but shadows bro.

Wrong. Christian dogma encouraged them to be on crusades and own slaves.



You call british living "riotous". I can walk down the streets of london at 3 am with no fear. Can you do that anywhere in Nigeria? 'There are many groups in Nigeria contesting to kill people from Area boys to OPC to agberos- all in the Christian south

jagun007: But mind you, although I am a Christian and support the Christian beliefs, I am a very rational human being. I do not support Churches that are set up to subtly milk people of their monies and livelihoods. This type of Christianity will also be judged in time. As Christians, God has given us wisdom to be able to discern what is right and wrong, and to know that 'by their fruits, you shall know them'.

But all in all, over the years, I have come to the realisation that only a genuine and on-going encounter with Jesus Christ and the Gospel of Grace, is able to deliver a man from wickedness and all his evil tendencies. And only this encounter can truly satisfy. You will always keep searching and never feel complete or whole, until you have this encounter and experience. This in itself is another mystery.

Nonsense.

Please read your bible before you claim morals here and there.


However, you may purchase male or female slaves from among the foreigners who live among you. You may also purchase the children of such resident foreigners, including those who have been born in your land. You may treat them as your property, passing them on to your children as a permanent inheritance. You may treat your slaves like this, but the people of Israel, your relatives, must never be treated this way. (Leviticus 25:44-46 NLT)
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If you buy a Hebrew slave, he is to serve for only six years. Set him free in the seventh year, and he will owe you nothing for his freedom. If he was single when he became your slave and then married afterward, only he will go free in the seventh year. But if he was married before he became a slave, then his wife will be freed with him. If his master gave him a wife while he was a slave, and they had sons or daughters, then the man will be free in the seventh year, but his wife and children will still belong to his master. But the slave may plainly declare, 'I love my master, my wife, and my children. I would rather not go free.' If he does this, his master must present him before God. Then his master must take him to the door and publicly pierce his ear with an awl. After that, the slave will belong to his master forever. (Exodus 21:2-6 NLT)
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When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she will not be freed at the end of six years as the men are. If she does not please the man who bought her, he may allow her to be bought back again. But he is not allowed to sell her to foreigners, since he is the one who broke the contract with her. And if the slave girl's owner arranges for her to marry his son, he may no longer treat her as a slave girl, but he must treat her as his daughter. If he himself marries her and then takes another wife, he may not reduce her food or clothing or fail to sleep with her as his wife. If he fails in any of these three ways, she may leave as a free woman without making any payment. (Exodus 21:7-11 NLT)
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When a man strikes his male or female slave with a rod so hard that the slave dies under his hand, he shall be punished. If, however, the slave survives for a day or two, he is not to be punished, since the slave is his own property. (Exodus 21:20-21 NAB)
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Slaves, obey your earthly masters with deep respect and fear. Serve them sincerely as you would serve Christ. (Ephesians 6:5 NLT)
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Christians who are slaves should give their masters full respect so that the name of God and his teaching will not be shamed. If your master is a Christian, that is no excuse for being disrespectful. You should work all the harder because you are helping another believer by your efforts. Teach these truths, Timothy, and encourage everyone to obey them. (1 Timothy 6:1-2 NLT)
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The servant will be severely punished, for though he knew his duty, he refused to do it. "But people who are not aware that they are doing wrong will be punished only lightly. Much is required from those to whom much is given, and much more is required from those to whom much more is given." (Luke 12:47-48 NLT)
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beautiful Onyi:

My dear, it is ERRONEOUS to say that christianity is a british religion, it is NOT. The british are converts just as we Africans are. They were pagans before being converted by the Romans.
Also, if you are really a Christian (I don't know if you are) you should be happy that the British brought salvation into our lives. A true christian would feel sorry for the british who have lost their faith and pray that they would find God once more, instead of wasting his/her precious time wondering why 'africans are more christian than the british'
As if it is a thing of shame to be called a christian.

Another straw man christian!


I never said that christianity started with the British!


We can see what chrisianity does to a society!

Original Christianity to new Christianity, look at religion of Jesus to the religion today.
Christianity spread to Africa originally not through slavery.
Look at Christianity to Muslim, the Christian faith spread in the old days after fall of Rome, Africans adopted Christianity freely.
The Muslim religion spread through conquest, you became a Muslim or died, when the Arabs conquer large chunks of Africa in a 100 years, was through military conquest and forced conversion.
Arabs called Africans kaffirs inferior.
Arabs from when they first got to Egypt to African conquest took Africans as slaves, over 100 million Africans.
Were taken as slaves and worked to death, African slavery is still practiced by Muslims in Africa.
Simple point the Arabs took 1 and a quarter million white men women children and babies as slaves.
the barbery pirates forget earlier slavery.
In 1790s the royal navy attacked north Africa, only 297 whites left alive, take 40 million African by barbery slavers how Manny left alive.
The population of north Africa and the mid east should be 80% black skinned African, 5% white African and 15% Arab.
so form Arab empire lets all 2 million whites, 100 million Africans, how come Arabs are still majority race north Africa mid east.
Just posted something to make people ask questions, as what faith should Africans accept for themselves, what religion should they embrace or go back to the old African religio

seyibrown:



Yes, slavery is regulated in the Old Testament but it is unfortunate that people in the past pulled the wool over your eyes to support slavery and commit barbaric acts. Were those slaves treated as prescribed in the Bible? No, they were not. Did you read the Old Testament rules that apply to freeing slaves? No, you obviously haven't. Do you know the Old Testament differentiates between 'slavery' and 'kidnap'? No, you obviously don't. The Old Testament does not prescribe the maltreatment of slaves. Greedy Africans who did not have the gospel or the love of God in their hearts kidnapped their fellow countrymen and sold them as slaves. Greedy Slave buyers who had the gospel but did not have the love of God in their hearts treated the 'kidnapped people' inhumanely!

]

What the hell are you saying? Oh, its ok to enslave but evil to Kidnap?

Lmao. smh

Logicboy, you can make your arguments without being insulting. Take a cue from kingoflag. While I get the point of your original post, suffice it to say, you proceeded from a flawed premise. People ( and not just Nigerians) should question religion (and not just christianity) as we know it today not because "the British have dropped it" (whatever that means) as you say but because we should not be satisfied with accepting what has been passed down as absolute truths. Every people, person and generation should be able to subject precepts handed down to them to critical reasoning rather than follow such precepts sheepishly. That's why we have a brain. Let's debate and not insult and while at it, agree to disagree. Cheers.

mac73: Logicboy, you can make your arguments without being insulting. Take a cue from kingoflag. While I get the point of your original post, suffice it to say, you proceeded from a flawed premise. People ( and not just Nigerians) should question religion (and not just christianity) as we know it today not because "the British have dropped it" (whatever that means) as you say but because we should not be satisfied with accepting what has been passed down as absolute truths. Every people, person and generation should be able to subject precepts handed down to them to critical reasoning rather than follow such precepts sheepishly. That's why we have a brain. Let's debate and not insult and while at it, agree to disagree. Cheers.

hmmm


I was specifically talking to the Nigerian Christians in UK.


When the MOD put it on the front page, it became free for all



So you see why the point of questioning religion was tied to the British?

This argument is not needed.