Ubenedictus: "the vatican makes billions from africa" is a silly idea u assumed and havent been able to back with proof. Where is ur proof of the african billion going to d vatican monthly or yearly. U have refused to provide proof, im i suppose to blive u simply because u say so?

The catholic church makes billions from Africa. That is my claim. I have proven it with their business model (offerings, donations, merchandise-rosaries, bibles etc).


I did not make any claims on how they bank that money.


#lying for Jesus

Ubenedictus: u are "debunking catholic here" by refusing to show proof right? Where are d billions going into d vatican account?

I didnt make that claim bro.

Logicboy03:



The catholic church makes billions from Africa. That is my claim. I have proven it with their business model (offerings, donations, merchandise-rosaries, bibles etc).


I did not make any claims on how they bank that money.


#lying for Jesus

d catholic church includes me so im happy if other catholics and i make billions in africa. That cant b wrong can it?

Ubenedictus: d catholic church includes me so im happy if other catholics and i make billions in africa. That cant b wrong can it?

You are no different from the sheep that support Oyedepo tithes. Just s they are not riding in his private jt, you are not cashing in on millions from the catholic church

Logicboy03:
You are no different from the sheep that support Oyedepo tithes. Just s they are not riding in his private jt, you are not cashing in on millions from the catholic church

in case u dont know making and selling rosaries isnt done by d vatican or any bishops. I was into d business and i can say it isnt bad, so im not on private jet and such doesnt mean i havent profited financially from d church. And hey my dear nobody is cashing ur proverbial millions, cash goes two ways in d church, for runing d church and d institutes in it and 4 charity.

Ubenedictus: in case u dont know making and selling rosaries isnt done by d vatican or any bishops. I was into d business and i can say it isnt bad, so im not on private jet and such doesnt mean i havent profited financially from d church. And hey my dear nobody is cashing ur proverbial millions, cash goes two ways in d church, for runing d church and d institutes in it and 4 charity.

lol....My catholic church sells its own rosaries.



Give up, bros. Your church supported slavery, covered up molestation, is corrupt with money and is hypocritical. Te catholic church is not a force for good

Logicboy03:
lol....My catholic church sells its own rosaries.
Give up, bros. Your church supported slavery, covered up molestation, is corrupt with money and is hypocritical. Te catholic church is not a force for good

actually d cath church is d first institution to condem slavery. And if ur church sell it own rosary then it doesnt go to d church but to d seller d church collects rent. And ur logic is defective increase in divorce rate doesnt make marriage a bad institution, bad priest do no make d church 'failed'

Ubenedictus: actually d cath church is d first institution to condem slavery. And if ur church sell it own rosary then it doesnt go to d church but to d seller d church collects rent. And ur logic is defective increase in divorce rate doesnt make marriage a bad institution, bad priest do no make d church 'failed'

lol......the catholic church is the first institution to condemn slavery? Are you trolling?


The catholic church was one of the main proponents of slavery. Even your pope has confessed and apologised for the church's involvement in slavery.



I never said that bad priests make the church a bad institution. It is evil doctrine that makes the catholic church evil. Your church has documented support for slavery and efforts to conceal child abuse. Slavery is in your bible and was a part of your church's doctrine./

Logicboy03:



lol......the catholic church is the first institution to condemn slavery? Are you trolling?


The catholic church was one of the main proponents of slavery. Even your pope has confessed and apologised for the church's involvement in slavery.



I never said that bad priests make the church a bad institution. It is evil doctrine that makes the catholic church evil. Your church has documented support for slavery and efforts to conceal child abuse. Slavery is in your bible and was a part of your church's doctrine./

most times logicboy, i consider u a bad joke, but most times u make assumptions u cant sustain. This is sicut dudem http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Eugene04/eugene04sicut.htm can u provide any religion in d western world that condemn slavery before that date? Besides slavery isnt part of catholic doctrine.

Ubenedictus: most times logicboy, i consider u a bad joke, but most times u make assumptions u cant sustain. This is sicut dudem http://www.papalencyclicals.net/Eugen04/eugene04sicut.htm can u provide any religion in d western world that condemn slavery before that date? Besides slavery isnt part of catholic doctrine.

Did the pope apologise for the church's involvement in slavery? Yes or No?


Is there slavery in the bible? Yes or no?

I'm not suprised u didnt read the link i presented

Logicboy03:


Did the pope apologise for the church's involvement in slavery? Yes or No?


Is there slavery in the bible? Yes or no?

i also remember benedict apologised to muslims for his speech even though he didnt say anything impolite.
Giving apology doesnt mean the church didnt teach against slavery.

Ubenedictus: I'm not suprised u didnt read the link i presented i also remember benedict apologised to muslims for his speech even though he didnt say anything impolite.
Giving apology doesnt mean the church didnt teach against slavery.

This is what your pope said;

Show me just what Muhammad brought that was new and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.

[5]





Now, so you agree that your catholic church supported slavery since you admitted that the Pope apologized for the church's involvement in it?



Do you agree that there is slavery in the bible? Yes or no?

Logicboy03:



This is what your pope said;


[5]

actually u quoted without context, d pope didnt say that instead he was quoting a discussion btw a patriarch and an imam

Now, so you agree that your catholic church supported slavery since you admitted that the Pope apologized for the church's involvement in it?

u havent proved that the catholic church support it. U havent pasted a single papal document that say d church support it in doctrine. Yes many in d church had slaves including bishops and jesuits and bishops wu decided to misinterprete a papal encyclical. But to claim that d whole church did and doctrine were made afirming it, is to lie.
Besides i ask again did u read my link.



Do you agree that there is slavery in the bible? Yes or no?[/quote]

Ubenedictus: actually u quoted without context, d pope didnt say that instead he was quoting a discussion btw a patriarch and an imam

u havent proved that the catholic church support it. U havent pasted a single papal document that say d church support it in doctrine. Yes many in d church had slaves including bishops and jesuits and bishops wu decided to misinterprete a papal encyclical. But to claim that d whole church did and doctrine were made afirming it, is to lie.
Besides i ask again did u read my link.



Do you agree that there is slavery in the bible? Yes or no?

I read your link. It still doesnt change the slavery in the bible and what Pope gregory IX did by putting slavery in the canon.


Leviticus 25:44
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

Titus 2:9
"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them"

1 Peter 2:18
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

Col 3:22
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord."

1 Cor 7:21-22
"21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so.
22 For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave."

Eph 6:5
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

Logicboy03:




I read your link. It still doesnt change the slavery in the bible and what Pope gregory IX did by putting slavery in the canon.


Leviticus 25:44
"Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you; from them you may buy slaves.

Titus 2:9
"Teach slaves to be subject to their masters in everything, to try to please them, not to talk back to them"

1 Peter 2:18
"Slaves, submit yourselves to your masters with all respect, not only to those who are good and considerate, but also to those who are harsh."

Col 3:22
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters in everything; and do it, not only when their eye is on you and to win their favor, but with sincerity of heart and reverence for the Lord."

1 Cor 7:21-22
"21 Were you a slave when you were called? Don't let it trouble you—although if you can gain your freedom, do so.
22 For he who was a slave when he was called by the Lord is the Lord's freedman; similarly, he who was a free man when he was called is Christ's slave."

Eph 6:5
"Slaves, obey your earthly masters with respect and fear, and with sincerity of heart, just as you would obey Christ.

pls provide the papal bull where pope greg added slavery to canon law and tell me what types of slavery it allowed. D new testament passages u quoted simply teaches a slave how to live a christian life even in slavery. I can really find a positive support 4 slavery in d new testament.

Ubenedictus: pls provide the papal bull where pope greg added slavery to canon law and tell me what types of slavery it allowed. D new testament passages u quoted simply teaches a slave how to live a christian life even in slavery. I can really find a positive support 4 slavery in d new testament.

I like how you avoided the fact that slavery was in the bible- boh in the new and old testaments



Here is your pope Gregory with his enforcement of slavery


[size=14pt]Slavery incorporated into canon law[/size]
In the early thirteenth century, official support for slavery and the slave trade was incorporated into Canon Law (Corpus Iuris Canonici), by Pope Gregory IX,.[62][63] Canon law provided for four just titles for holding slaves: slaves captured in war, persons condemned to slavery for a crime; persons selling themselves into slavery, including a father selling his child; children of a mother who is a slave.
Slavery was imposed as an ecclesiastical penalty by General Councils and local Church councils and Popes, 1179-1535...
(a) The crime of assisting the Saracens 1179-1450.....
(b) The crime of selling Christian slaves to the Saracens 1425. Pope Martin V issued two constitutions. Traffic in Christian slaves was not forbidden, but only their sale to non Christian masters.
(c) The crime of brigandage in the Pyrenees mountainous districts, 1179.
(d)Unjust aggression or other crimes, 1309-1535. The penalty of capture and enslavement for Christian families or cities or states was enacted several times by Popes. Those sentenced included Venetians in 1309.[64]
Pope Gregory XI, excommunicated the Florentines and ordered them to be enslaved if captured[65] Little seems to have happened before the order was removed

Logicboy03:


I like how you avoided the fact that slavery was in the bible- boh in the new and old testaments



Here is your pope Gregory with his enforcement of slavery


[size=14pt]Slavery incorporated into canon law[/size]
In the early thirteenth century, official support for slavery and the slave trade was incorporated into Canon Law (Corpus Iuris Canonici), by Pope Gregory IX,.[62][63] Canon law provided for four just titles for holding slaves: slaves captured in war, persons condemned to slavery for a crime; persons selling themselves into slavery, including a father selling his child; children of a mother who is a slave.
Slavery was imposed as an ecclesiastical penalty by General Councils and local Church councils and Popes, 1179-1535...
(a) The crime of assisting the Saracens 1179-1450.....
(b) The crime of selling Christian slaves to the Saracens 1425. Pope Martin V issued two constitutions. Traffic in Christian slaves was not forbidden, but only their sale to non Christian masters.
(c) The crime of brigandage in the Pyrenees mountainous districts, 1179.
(d)Unjust aggression or other crimes, 1309-1535. The penalty of capture and enslavement for Christian families or cities or states was enacted several times by Popes. Those sentenced included Venetians in 1309.[64]
Pope Gregory XI, excommunicated the Florentines and ordered them to be enslaved if captured[65] Little seems to have happened before the order was removed

ur list didnt include chattel slavery. So i can safely conclude the catholic church didnt support chattel slavery.

Ubenedictus: ur list didnt include chattel slavery. So i can safely conclude the catholic church didnt support chattel slavery.

See your wickedness? Even f your statement is true, are other forms of slavery moral for a church?



Your comment is a lie. What kind of slavery, do you call the ones I bolded in my comment? liar for the catholic church!

Logicboy03:



See your wickedness? Even f your statement is true, are other forms of slavery moral for a church?



Your comment is a lie. What kind of slavery, do you call the ones I bolded in my comment? liar for the catholic church!

i lied? U must b fucking kidding me. U pasted the list urself, did u not notice that chattel slavery is not in the list or are u blind?

Ubenedictus: i lied? U must b fucking kidding me. U pasted the list urself, did u not notice that chattel slavery is not in the list or are u blind?

Chattel slavery
Chattel slavery, so named because people are treated as the personal property, chattels, of an owner and are bought and sold as commodities, is the original form of slavery



Explain how selling a human being as allowed in the canon is different Chattel slavery

Logicboy03:


Chattel slavery
Chattel slavery, so named because people are treated as the personal property, chattels, of an owner and are bought and sold as commodities, is the original form of slavery



Explain how selling a human being as allowed in the canon is different Chattel slavery

simply put, the church believe that it is below human dignity for a human being to be sold. Instead human labour can be bought (servitude), that is why even at that that the church believe that the slave has right because u cant possess a human being.

Ubenedictus: simply put, the church believe that it is below human dignity for a human being to be sold. Instead human labour can be bought (servitude), that is why even at that that the church believe that the slave has right because u cant possess a human being.

Why do you lie?


The catholic church in that canon supported people selling other people. Chattel slavery. I am yet to see where the rights of a slave are established in the canon. Keep lying.

Logicboy03:


Why do you lie?


The catholic church in that canon supported people selling other people. Chattel slavery. I am yet to see where the rights of a slave are established in the canon. Keep lying.

labor is sold not the person, the person still has most of his rights intact read summa contra gentile of thomas aquinas, even the wikipedia link u posted earlier says the same thing.

Ubenedictus: labor is sold not the person, the person still has most of his rights intact read summa contra gentile of thomas aquinas, even the wikipedia link u posted earlier says the same thing.

Lies again.


Dont let me even get started with Thomas Acquinas!

Logicboy03:

Lies again.


Dont let me even get started with Thomas Acquinas!

u posted the list urself, it seems it didnt occur to u that chatel slavery isnt there, yet u accuse me of lies.
Was i d person wu wrote d list of servitude that is considered just yet no mention of chattel slavery?

Ubenedictus: u posted the list urself, it seems it didnt occur to u that chatel slavery isnt there, yet u accuse me of lies.
Was i d person wu wrote d list of servitude that is considered just yet no mention of chattel slavery?

Chattel slavery is there. clean and clear- selling of people.


Anyways there is no need to argue much. Other forms of slavery are quite okay for you and the church.


And you have the nerve to call yourself a free african? Your a slave to a slave master religion

Logicboy03!!!! Ubenedictus!!!!
SHUT UP!!!!!!!!
Instead of what U're doing now, why dont U guys exchange phone numbers and conclude d argument on phone
It wud be much better that way!!!

Winneygirl: Logicboy03!!!! Ubenedictus!!!!
SHUT UP!!!!!!!!
Instead of what U're doing now, why dont U guys exchange phone numbers and conclude d argument on phone
It wud be much better that way!!!

Did our argument put sand in your vajajay?

Wetin concern you?

Logicboy03:

Chattel slavery is there. clean and clear- selling of people.


Anyways there is no need to argue much. Other forms of slavery are quite okay for you and the church.


And you have the nerve to call yourself a free african? Your a slave to a slave master religion

very funny, one reason i dont discuss with an atheist, my religion obligates me to be nice to you but your lack of religion doesnt obligate you to be nice.
Well how can i complain.
The pope didnt ask for the enslavement of africans actually he condemned it. He condemned the racial enslavement of indian and blacks. Ofcourse i will admit the slavery case is a can of worms but your behaviour wont make the discussion beautiful. With d behaviour u put up i would rather make my point by providing links and really writting. Enjoy http://archive.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907fea2.asp

Ubenedictus: very funny, one reason i dont discuss with an atheist, my religion obligates me to be nice to you but your lack of religion doesnt obligate you to be nice.
Well how can i complain.
The pope didnt ask for the enslavement of africans actually he condemned it. He condemned the racial enslavement of indian and blacks. Ofcourse i will admit the slavery case is a can of worms but your behaviour wont make the discussion beautiful. With d behaviour u put up i would rather make my point by providing links and really writting. Enjoy http://archive.catholic.com/thisrock/1999/9907fea2.asp

Sharaap there! It boils my blood when someone is apologising for a former slave master! It is highly irritating. You know your church is built on scandals and immorality, yet you still want to follow and deceive your African brethren to follow this foolish church.


I was a catholic. Do you know my baptismal name? Phillip! I have a proper traditional name in my local language that praises god. Do you know what the cathecist told me? He said that I hadi to be baptised in the name of a saint or a prophet in heaven. Meaning that no one from my village or traibe is in heaven.


The racism and slavery to Europeans is quite disgusting in the catholic church. How many of your saints have proper African names? When you look at the list, it is made up of latin, spanish, hebrew and Jewish names mostly.



What about the bible itself? It contains so many verses both in the old and new testaments sanctioning slavery.


Jesus never even one day condemned slavery



Have you even noticed that the prophets and messengers of god were all from the middle east and mostly jews? Did Yaweh forget the west africans? mmmm?

Only for him to remember our African forefathers with slavery in the 16th century.



to hell with you and your slave religion. Jewish/European slave. Keep apologising for them!

As i said earlier u simply make d discussion hard becos u have refused to use ur common sense and have started attacking beings instead of ideas.
I wonder if an atheist can make a discussion without finding a way of blaming God 4 everything. Welldone.

Logicboy03:
Sharaap there! It boils my blood when someone is apologising for a former slave master! It is highly irritating. You know your church is built on scandals and immorality, yet you still want to follow and deceive your African brethren to follow this foolish church.

are u thru?

I was a catholic. Do you know my baptismal name? Phillip! I have a proper traditional name in my local language that praises god. Do you know what the cathecist told me? He said that I hadi to be baptised in the name of a saint or a prophet in heaven. Meaning that no one from my village or traibe is in heaven.

it is simply preferable to use d names of a saint, mainly cos they shuld b model, if u were an ibo person maybe tansi or iwene would b an option, if u were from uganda u would have abt 40 local names to chose from.

The racism and slavery to Europeans is quite disgusting in the catholic church. How many of your saints have proper African names? When you look at the list, it is made up of latin, spanish, hebrew and Jewish names mostly.

d african saints have african names.

What about the bible itself? It contains so many verses both in the old and new testaments sanctioning slavery.

i'm not bound by d OT and there are no NT passage that positively support slavery, all there is, are tips showing a christian slave how to leave christian life in slavery and how master shuld treat their slaves i cant find anything like "slavery is good" in d NT.

Jesus never even one day condemned slavery

and?

Have you even noticed that the prophets and messengers of god were all from the middle east and mostly jews? Did Yaweh forget the west africans? mmmm?

d europeans may ask, did he 4get europe?

Only for him to remember our African forefathers with slavery in the 16th century.

where is this coming from?

to hell with you and your slave religion. Jewish/European slave. Keep apologising for them!

are u now happy? After i showed u that d church didnt teach chattel slavery u decided to jump on christianity as a whole.
Weldone.

^^^^

You really think I am going to waste any more time with you? Close minded slaves like you can keep defending your slave masters.


Any open minded christian or catholic reading our comments will see the truth for what it is and will never trust the catholic church. An open minded person will read our comments and go and search for the truth on christianity and slavery.



A wise man is not cowed by knowledge but uses it for his own benefit