Logicboy03:



For instance, I am able to explain a partcular festival that had pagan origins to my white friends. However, some of my Nigerian friends were silent and didnt know how to explain the festival to the foriegners. Their parents didnt teach them Nigerian culture that is steeped with paganism.

My parents taught me a lot about the ijaw culture........that's what every parent should do....but practice them??...MBAAAAA!!!!!!......

Where I am from in bayelsa snake worship is an integral part of there culture......you don't expect me to teach my kids that and tell them to practice it........

You sef you no go gree.......

That's what pagan 9ja wants from us......

ijawkid:

And you think learning about paganism and practicing it would make us opeÑ minded and e
ffect progress in nigeria??......

I think the life of our fore-fathers should have shown that.......smh!!!!!.....

wait i dont get you? sometimes i feel you are just talking for the sake of it. .

WHat is worng with the former lives of our forefathers? dont you know that women had higher status back then? in the ancient days we did some fine self-progress and built up our own version of lives. nowadays we are relying on oyinbo to build it for us.

ijawkid:
You expect my kids to be running around with there hands and legs tied with red straps,with white chalk paintings all over there body and then dancing around a JUJU??........

You no serious u hear,.......,

running around? there is no need to run. they can walk.

talk sense fellow. we are not muslims that we must go 5 times a day and do this even if we dont want to. we are Pagans. it is all a matter of personal spirituality. and please dont call this JUJU . specify a particular PAgan religion or else dont talk.

if your kids have problems, etc., they will theselves go and do whatever ritual or consultation is requires. they dont need to hold an idol on their head and "run" around. If they want for daily once-a-day worship, they can keep an idol of Mamiwata (or whatever it is you Ijaw worship) or they can face a water source. it all depends on ritual and context.

as for face paint, masks, etc., these are done only during special occasions and festivals. on such days it is good for them to get on the ground and do what their forefathers did. it is good for their personal SPiritual and Cultural health. and they can learn something about community vaues by integrating with people in their village once in a while. whats the harm>>

even I DO THAT.

ijawkid:

I know my culture.........I don't know about you....

The many persons supporting that paganism be thought in nigerian schools are not even in the country to start with....they've all gone to lick the arses of the westerners................

you know why is that because when these many Nigerians go abroad and think they can integrate with the outside and be trated as equals and of status, they are highly mistaken. people stamp on them and disregard them. while at the same time these people outside will fiercely dfend their own beliefs and culture/ it is then that these Nigerians realize that the world is a cruel place and if one wants to survive, one must rely on ones own identity and roots. this heralds the begining of a period of enlightenment in them.

Logicboy03:


Sayeth the Jewish slave.


Ijawkid's white masters have told him not to give blood. If his sister is dying on a hospital bed, Ijawkid would not give her black zz any drop of blood.

Lol........ijawkid kid would rather resort to letting his sister recieve bloodless medication which is safer and more effective....abi science never teach you that one??..............

PAGAN 9JA:


you know why is that because when these many Nigerians go abroad and think they can integrate with the outside and be trated as equals and of status, they are highly mistaken. people stamp on them and disregard them. while at the same time these people outside will fiercely dfend their own beliefs and culture/ it is then that these Nigerians realize that the world is a cruel place and if one wants to survive, one must rely on ones own identity and roots. this heralds the begining of a period of enlightenment in them.

You should tell logicboy this ....he ran away from his country expecting the rest of us to propagate the nigerian pagan culture..........

As for me I dey nigeria gidigbam!!!!!!.....

souldust: let me point out something here, its really important. The religion is not paganism. Paganism is a religion in ancient rome. Lets stop calling it paganism for thats not what it is! The different religions we have in africa are very different from paganism all round. Be it in philosophy, theology, politics and government, history and anthropology. The ATR is better used but not the best. Another reason we should stop calling it paganism is becos, paganism has come to be synonymous with demon worship. But the ATR is no demon worship!

SORRY YOU HAVE NO SENSE OF HISTORY! THE TERM PAGAN WAS GIVEN TO INDIGENOUS RELIGIONS AROUND THE WORLD BY XTIANS AS A ASIGN OF MOCKING US. IT MEANS VILLAGERS!

BUT NOW WE PAGANS HAVE DECIDED TO COME TOGETHER AND FIGHT BACK AND SHOW THEM WHAT EVEN A VILLAGER IS CAPABLE OF!

I REFUSE TO CALL IT SOLELY AS TRADITIONAL RELIGION BECAUSE WHEN I USE THE WORD TRADITIONAL, PEOPLE THINK I AM TALKING ABOUT CULTURE AND WONT TAKE ME SERIOUSLY! THIS IS RELIGON, NOT JUST CULTURE. THEREFORE JUST BECAUSE XTIANS BRAND US DEMONIC , WE SHALL NOT CHANGE! WHEN WE USE THE WORD PAGAN, PEOPLE TAKE US MORE SERIOUSLY.

ijawkid:
My parents taught me a lot about the ijaw culture........that's what every parent should do....but practice them??...MBAAAAA!!!!!!......

Where I am from in bayelsa snake worship is an integral part of there culture......you don't expect me to teach my kids that and tell them to practice it........

You sef you no go gree.......

That's what pagan 9ja wants from us......

YES WE DO EXPECT YOU! Snake reverance is practiced from Africa to South AMerica, To SOuth India and across the globe in Polynesia.
snake are highly revered cold-blooded creatures.
it wont hurt your children a$$ to offer their respects to the snake.
(btw I thought snake worship is done in IDemili>?)

PAGAN 9JA:


wait i dont get you? sometimes i feel you are just talking for the sake of it. .

WHat is worng with the former lives of our forefathers? dont you know that women had higher status back then? in the ancient days we did some fine self-progress and built up our own version of lives. nowadays we are relying on oyinbo to build it for us.

If we were to keep practicing the pagan culture of those days down till today I don't think my twin sister would be alive....she would have been killed........
I hope you know what I mean??....

PAGAN 9JA:




running around? there is no need to run. they can walk.

talk sense fellow. we are not muslims that we must go 5 times a day and do this even if we dont want to. we are Pagans. it is all a matter of personal spirituality. and please dont call this JUJU . specify a particular PAgan religion or else dont talk.

if your kids have problems, etc., they will theselves go and do whatever ritual or consultation is requires. they dont need to hold an idol on their head and "run" around. If they want for daily once-a-day worship, they can keep an idol of Mamiwata (or whatever it is you Ijaw worship) or they can face a water source. it all depends on ritual and context.

as for face paint, masks, etc., these are done only during special occasions and festivals. on such days it is good for them to get on the ground and do what their forefathers did. it is good for their personal SPiritual and Cultural health. and they can learn something about community vaues by integrating with people in their village once in a while. whats the harm>>

even I DO THAT.

Where I am from they worship ""SNAKES"".....you expect my kids to do the same??....answer me......

PAGAN 9JA:


YES WE DO EXPECT YOU! Snake reverance is practiced from Africa to South AMerica, To SOuth India and across the globe in Polynesia.
snake are highly revered cold-blooded creatures.
it wont hurt your children a$$ to offer their respects to the snake.
(btw I thought snake worship is done in IDemili>?)

Hahahahahaha.....you aint serious..........what would the snakes do for my kids except injecting deadly venoms into there system....

@ijaw kid,I am also ijaw and I want to tell you that there is nothing wrong in worshipping a snake,after all,christians worship casper the friendly ghost()

ijawkid:

I know my culture.........I don't know about you....

The many persons supporting that paganism be thought in nigerian schools are not even in the country to start with....they've all gone to lick the arses of the westerners................

what you have said does not give a good reason why we shouldnt study it in schools. Talking about people going abroad.if they go abroad and now turn back to say what they are saying, then we should listen to them. They are an authority when they speak. This is becos they have gone to where cristianity was spread to us and have come to see it as just another religion. A religion not greater than the ATR like you would want us to think.

ijawkid:

If we were to keep practicing the pagan culture of those days down till today I don't think my twin sister would be alive....she would have been killed........
I hope you know what I mean??....

are you Kalbari only these people use to kill twins and that too at an age of infancy. i dont know what exactly was the source of this custom. probably to avoid disease spreading from one kid to the other of similar genetics, etc.

also the occurence of twins is what? 1 in a 10 000

also even animals like cats, lions etc, the mothers usually eat 1 baby at this stage after pregnancy. the baby has not yet sen life and is not aware of anything. ofcourse this "custom" can be done away with.

Where I am from they worship ""SNAKES"".....you expect my kids to do the same??....answer me......

YES I ALREADY ANSWERED YOU! YOU MUST REVER THE SNAKES ONCE IN A WHILE! GO ENQUIRE ABOUT THE EXACT RITUAL AND CONTEXT INVOLVED!

@ijaw kid,nothing wrong with ophiolatry(snake worship),........................after all,muslims worship meteorites(stones that fell out of the sky)!!!

Niflheim: @ijaw kid,I am also ijaw and I want to tell you that there is nothing wrong in worshipping a snake,after all,christians worship casper the friendly ghost()

Lol.......

Let me ask you.....have you ever tried worshipping a ""python"" or would you love to worship a ""python""??..........

Its better for an invincible being to be my GOD than for a python who is lesser than me......

PAGAN 9JA:


SORRY YOU HAVE NO SENSE OF HISTORY! THE TERM PAGAN WAS GIVEN TO INDIGENOUS RELIGIONS AROUND THE WORLD BY XTIANS AS A ASIGN OF MOCKING US. IT MEANS VILLAGERS!

BUT NOW WE PAGANS HAVE DECIDED TO COME TOGETHER AND FIGHT BACK AND SHOW THEM WHAT EVEN A VILLAGER IS CAPABLE OF!

I REFUSE TO CALL IT SOLELY AS TRADITIONAL RELIGION BECAUSE WHEN I USE THE WORD TRADITIONAL, PEOPLE THINK I AM TALKING ABOUT CULTURE AND WONT TAKE ME SERIOUSLY! THIS IS RELIGON, NOT JUST CULTURE. THEREFORE JUST BECAUSE XTIANS BRAND US DEMONIC , WE SHALL NOT CHANGE! WHEN WE USE THE WORD PAGAN, PEOPLE TAKE US MORE SERIOUSLY.

your opinion

ijawkid:

Hahahahahaha.....you aint serious..........what would the snakes do for my kids except injecting deadly venoms into there system....

stop being so materialistic for once!

i dont know the exact context! usually Snake worshippers are free from / able to avoid Snake attacks. Snakes never attack people who practice this. I know for example, a tribe in South-West India where they heavily worship snakes, especailly the deadly and feared King Cobra. these people never face any serious snake attacks and if they do, they survive it. they have snake groves in every home. i have noticed this alsoamong many different peoples.

here i hope this thread helps you:
https://www.nairaland.com/1102850/mystery-idemili-culture

souldust: your opinion

yes ofcourse i agree. i know what you mean but yeah. .

PAGAN 9JA:


are you Kalbari only these people use to kill twins and that too at an age of infancy. i dont know what exactly was the source of this custom. probably to avoid disease spreading from one kid to the other of similar genetics, etc.

also the occurence of twins is what? 1 in a 10 000

also even animals like cats, lions etc, the mothers usually eat 1 baby at this stage after pregnancy. the baby has not yet sen life and is not aware of anything. ofcourse this "custom" can be done away with.

Why should it be done away with??.....why??.....
Its suppose to be taught and practiced.......

PAGAN 9JA:

YES I ALREADY ANSWERED YOU! YOU MUST REVER THE SNAKES ONCE IN A WHILE! GO ENQUIRE ABOUT THE EXACT RITUAL AND CONTEXT INVOLVED!

My kids would never go near a snake talk less of worshipping it.........


Rubbish!!!!!!!!.........

Niflheim: @ijaw kid,nothing wrong with ophiolatry(snake worship),........................after all,muslims worship meteorites(stones that fell out of the sky)!!!

There is everything wrong with it......its madness!!!!!!.....

ijawkid:

Lol.......

Let me ask you.....have you ever tried worshipping a ""python"" or would you love to worship a ""python""??..........

Its better for an invincible being to be my GOD than for a python who is lesser than me......

THe Python in Ijaw Religion is not worshiped as a Spiritual Force of Creation. It is more like an animistic Forest Spirit.

IF you want to worship a Creator SPirit , go enquire about it. We Pagans do not discriminate between the different forces. some like to worship the Creator whereas some are more devoted the THe Forces of Destruction. it is all a matter of personal worship.

ijawkid:

Lol.......

Let me ask you.....have you ever tried worshipping a ""python"" or would you love to worship a ""python""??..........

Its better for an invincible being to be my GOD than for a python who is lesser than me......

are you sure it is python they worship? I am very familiar with you xxxtian's propaganda labelling the ATR idolatry just becos they have some sacramentals in stones, wood, trees and some times animals.

PAGAN 9JA:


stop being so materialistic for once!

i dont know the exact context! usually Snake worshippers are free from / able to avoid Snake attacks. Snakes never attack people who practice this. I know for example, a tribe in South-West India where they heavily worship snakes, especailly the deadly and feared King Cobra. these people never face any serious snake attacks and if they do, they survive it. they have snake groves in every home. i have noticed this alsoamong many different peoples.

here i hope this thread helps you:
https://www.nairaland.com/1102850/mystery-idemili-culture

This is crazy..........madness at its peak.....

souldust: are you sure it is python they worship? I am very familiar with you xxxtian's propaganda labelling the ATR idolatry just becos they have some sacramentals in stones, wood, trees and some times animals.

Yeah I'm sure.......where are you from??.....

PAGAN 9JA:


THe Python in Ijaw Religion is not worshiped as a Spiritual Force of Creation. It is more like an animistic Forest Spirit.

IF you want to worship a Creator SPirit , go enquire about it. We Pagans do not discriminate between the different forces. some like to worship the Creator whereas some are more devoted the THe Forces of Destruction. it is all a matter of personal worship.

Hmmmm........na you sabi.......

ijawkid:

Why should it be done away with??.....why??.....
Its suppose to be taught and practiced.......

EXACTLY! to be honest i have nothing against it. it is not exactly murder because it is not done at such an advanced stage of development.

i just said that because you fellows where acting weird about it.

ijawkid:
My kids would never go near a snake talk less of worshipping it.........



Rubbish!!!!!!!!.........

they can worship from a distance or make use of the very useful Pagan religious device, the IDol. they can carve it themselves if they want to. then they can concentrate all their MEntal powers on it and worship the Snake through it.

PAGAN 9JA:


EXACTLY! to be honest i have nothing against it. it is not exactly murder because it is not done at such an advanced stage of development.

i just said that because you fellows where acting weird about it.

Lol........if you were from kalabari would you still teach your kids about such crazy practice and urge them to practice it??....my brother it is weird........

PAGAN 9JA:



they can worship from a distance or make use of the very useful Pagan religious device, the IDol. they can carve it themselves if they want to. then they can cincentrate all their MEntal powers on it and worship the Snake through it.

Lol.........only if I am mentally deranged can i teach my kids to engage in snake worship..........

And where is that logicboy......??

I hope you are ready to follow up every of pagan 9ja's lecture.......

ijawkid:

Lol........if you were from kalabari would you still teach your kids about such crazy practice and urge them to practice it??....my brother it is weird........

first of all the possibility of twins is very rare. second, if i do it, i will consult the oracle and my wife and i will decide. because this practice is mostly to do with custom rathar than SPirituality. it is not present among any other peoples.

ijawkid:

Lol.........only if I am mentally deranged can i teach my kids to engage in snake worship..........

now what can i say to this


oh yes you are mentally deranged. .. . . and narrow. .

ijawkid:

Lol........ijawkid kid would rather resort to letting his sister recieve bloodless medication which is safer and more effective....abi science never teach you that one??..............

What bloodless medication will save a human being that has lost 3 pints of blood?

PAGAN 9JA:


THe Python in Ijaw Religion is not worshiped as a Spiritual Force of Creation. It is more like an animistic Forest Spirit.

IF you want to worship a Creator SPirit , go enquire about it. We Pagans do not discriminate between the different forces. some like to worship the Creator whereas some are more devoted the THe Forces of Destruction. it is all a matter of personal worship.

i actually suspected what you have said. You know these people label you idol worshiper just becos they see you infront of something ,olded.

@ijaw kid,the christian europeans murdered africans en masse and now they claim that we are ritualists!!!They are the biggest ritualists ever to set foot(or is it paw) in africa!!!

souldust: i actually suspected what you have said. You know these people label you idol worshiper just becos they see you infront of something ,olded.

just as there is no one man, so there is no one God. The Spiritual Forces (Gods) is an infinite all-encompassing concept. it is therefore impossible for there to be one God. our ancestors recognized this.


Idolatory Clarification :

WHat is an Idol?

An idol is a physical representation of a SPiritual Force, that helps us to concentrate our SPiritual Energies and prayers on a focal point.
however xtians use idols for man-worship. that is different and wrong context.

there is nothing wrong with idol worship. It is not the wood or stone that we worship, but what it represents. The abrahamist filth are just intent upon spreading lies about us. Let it be known that there is no true devotion involved in worshipping 'thin air'. anyone who says e is devote to this invisible God and truly feels for it, the person is a LIAR! We humans are materialistic in nature. We need to touch, sense, smell or see something b4 we entertain any feelings towards it. Even the sly and crafty roman catholics, though involved in man worship (unlyk us Pagans who worship God), still keep an idol of jesus in their place of worship, though they shamelessly deny idolatory outside.
AGikuyu Pagan traditionalists from Kenya on the other hand, though partial monotheists (they have lesser spirit-Gods), worship 'God'/Ngai by worshipping him through his creations by worshiping nature and Mt. Kilimanjaro. This is also a form of idolatory and it is good. even the most fanatic of muslims sees an 'image' of God in his/her mind, while praying. It is just in our human nature and how it was meant to be..




blood sacrifice clarification: when you want something, you must give back something in return. this is called a sacrifice. when you want money, you sacrifice your effort to obtain it, when you want to eat, you sacrifice your money to buy food. in the same way, when people want simething from the divine forces, such as rains for good crops, etc. they have to give back something in return. now what they give back depends on the ritual, mode & context. it maybe a chicken, or a goat or vgetables, or something like that.

Traditional Pagan Religion:

-has no man-founder like judaeo/islamo/christianity. There are almost as many Traditional Religions in this world as there are tribes which is in the millions. yet Not ONE has been founded by man or has any form of proof as to that. They are the true religions as of divine providence.

-are the oldest religions. ALL Traditional Religions are as old as time immortal. there is no date attributed to them,. it is from the dawn of mankind.

-DO NOT proselytyse OR seek converts. you have to be BORN to a tribe to be Pagan. only reversion is possible for a person to his tribes/ethnicities traditional form of Paganism.

- are a form of Spiritual Science connected to the material Sciences. most Ancient Pagan Druids, Shamans and Priest were adept at healing, the sciences, chemistry(alchemy)_philosophy, astronomy, etc. unlike monotheistic religions, Pagan religions accomodate the Sciences and cannot exist without them.

-worship and influence the Supernatural forces through its various manifestations. e.g., its creations such as nature, animals, forces or through a carved stone idol that symbolises an aspect of a Spiritual force, i.e., for example an idol of a Spiritual Force/God of Fertility and Pro-Creation. the idols are themselves not worshipped but what they represent and act as an object to help concentrate prayers and Spiritual forces on. humans being materialistic in nature, cannot worship or feel REAL devotion to thin air. even the most hardcore christian/muslim while praying must see an image of a God in his mind if he really means his prayer. anyone be it christian or muslim claiming "undying love" to an invisible God is a LIAR!

-do not believe in religious wars, massacres or killings. The Pagans have never attacked anyone unless provoked. as in the case of the Quraysh Tribe of Arabia, when they were being forcefully converted by the sword, their people and shrines looted and destroyed and their women defiled, when in fact they were the FIRST to be there. they were kicked out of their own homes. such injustices can only account for Pagan religiouswars and even then very few such retailiations have taken place.

- Worship the Gods as Spiritual Forces that govern various spheres of being/life and dont indulge in man-worship.

- involved in nature conservation and do not consider man above other animals or plants. humans are just more intelligent than a Chimpanzee which is in turn more intelligent than a chicken.

- do not go by a book. Pagan religions are flexible and can change with time. more advanced form of Pagan religions such as Ancient Greek Religion, Ancient Egyptian Religion, Hinduism, Ifa-Orisha, etc have as a result a large number of treatises, interpretations, versions, etc. books are merely guidelines which can be enhanced further with time. Pagan religions, however small, have a potential to grow if given the proper resources, support, research/universities and time.

-the religion is personal. you tribe, culture and trad.religions is inseparable. therefore it is part of your very identitity and beliefs naturally attributed to you.

etc. .