davidylan:

the above in highlights doesnt really make much sense. If neural circuits are not the sole determinants of thoughts and reasoning then how can ALL our thoughts and reasoning be a result of neural circuits? that is circular argument if i ever say one.
Its like saying sunlight is not the sole determinant of photosynthesis but ALL photosynthesis is as a result of sunlight.

What you are arguing above is what i agreed with... neurotransmitters do modulate mood but they do not formulate thought and reasoning. Animals possess the exact same neurotransmitters as man, does a goat possess the same thought pattern of a human?

Diet and nutritional state? what has that to do with anything? Is the child with kwashiokor any less able to formulate thought processes like a well-fed child?

You seem to me to have a poor grasp of your own argument.

I asked a simple question - can you create a thought by injecting a neurotransmitter to the brain of a mouse?

I think you are not completely getting what I am saying. . .I just gave an example of how the brain functions using the neural circuits, other parts of the brain like the occipital lobes also help in processing thoughts. . .For example when I look at the words and images on this page, two areas at the back of my brain are at work. These lobes, process the words and images on this page from my eyes and link that information with images stored in my memory which help in forming my thoughts. . .I was just giving him and example about how the brain processes thoughts based on the question he asked. My point to him is that all thoughts and reasoning come from the brain without which we can not even think or reason at all. . .As for diet I believe you know the simple point I was making. . .I said diet and nutritional state can also have a profound effect on the brain's chemistry and things like dreaming etc. . .

Energy boys keep having fun. Your days are numbered.

mazaje:

I think you not completely getting what I am saying. . .I just gave an example of brain function using the neural circuits, other parts of the brain like the occipital lobes also help in processing thoughts. . .For example when I look at the words and images on this page, two areas at the back of my brain at work. These lobes, process the words and images on this page from my eyes and link that information with images stored in my memory which help in forming my thoughts. . .I was just giving him and example about how the brain processes thoughts based on the question he asked. My point to him is that all thoughts and reasoning come from the brain without which we can not even think or reason at all. . .As for diet I believe you know the simple point I was making. . .I said diet and nutritional state can also have a profound effect on the brain's chemistry and things like dreaming etc. . .

Your argument here is very valid. However it does not address the real question of this section... is brain chemistry the sole determinant of thought and reasoning?

I see the brain as very similar to the computer... a computer processor is NOT the sole determinant of the output of a PC. No matter how sophisticated or fast the processor is, it is completely useless without the complicated software written by man. Such is the same with the human brain... ues it does process words and images but the brain is not solely responsible for processing THOUGHT and REASONING. A goat is able to process images... however it is not able to process complicated human thought.

I'm not sure how applicable the issue of diet is. If you insist that we consider its effects then would you also be willing to admit that we can also generate thought in the lab by injecting a neurotransmitter into the brain?

greatgenius: there is no-thing as accidents.. everything is as a result of choice..btw asthma is jsut a name given to a particular disease. being aware of its name or not is irrelevant. diseases are caused as a result of stress, wrong thinking, wrong beliefs, fear etc.. disease that manifests in the outer, physical body has arisen from within the conscious or subconscious mind.they originate from within They are the effects of your thoughts and feelings... you attract what you vibrate towards...there are no accidents in the universe..



your mind or spirit is simply not only in your brain but also in every other cell of your body..now as far as mind and spiritt being the same thing most people are or get confused because they are trapped by partial viewpoints about what the mind is... everything is mind/spirit

Why oh why do you state this as fact?
I wish I were loaded enough to have oprah do my laundry, but I don't go about telling people she actually does. What gives?

All are welcome to their beliefs, but the way y'all present yours is puzzling. Combo that with a handle like yours and one thinks of one of those communes where kool aid could eventually get popular. Where are your facts?

mazaje:

I will accept that the chemical reactions in my brain are responsible for thoughts which are non physical. . . .The entire process is a physical process because thoughts are simply memories that depend solely on physical things, you can only think about physical and material things. . . .

I am afraid you are just pulling us back and forth and wasting our time.......we both know you haven't given us a clear answer.

In order to proceed however, I'll take it that for you somehow, physical chemical reactions cause your non-physical thoughts.

P/s: your statement that you can only think of physical things is not only irrelevant to the non-physical nature of thoughts, it is also false. I am sure you can think of abstracts e.g numbers

Let's proceed:

Question 3: How is this soul affixed to the body while you are alive?

My answer: Since we have already established that the soul is a non-physical entity, asking how it is affixed to a physical body is irrelevant. It is like asking "how is software affixed to a disk?"

If however your question really means how the soul came to be associated with the body, then my answer is that God made us and formed our bodies to 'house' our souls. In a similar way you can create information and put it 'in' a disk.

My question: If your non-physical thoughts are a result of chemical reactions, are these chemical reactions random or can you tell me exactly who controls them i.e Can you choose to think of a particular thing or are these thoughts(chemical reactions) just randomly happening?

You don't have to respond to the following, it is just added so that you can get an understanding of the sort of question I am asking:

You have said that there is no non-physical aspect of you but that physical chemical reactions create your non-physical thoughts (as confusing as this sounds)

Following from the above, What does it mean when you say "I think with my brain"?

If thinking is chemical reactions in the brain, then it follows that you are causing those chemical reactions to happen. Who is this "you" causing these chemical reactions to happen? Are you a physical body somehow willing your thoughts (chemical reactions) into existence? or are the chemical reactions just happening randomly such that you have no control of yourself(that is if there is a yourself to start with)
Essentially, I am asking a question of will and consciousness.

davidylan:

Your argument here is very valid. However it does not address the real question of this section... is brain chemistry the sole determinant of thought and reasoning?

I see the brain as very similar to the computer... a computer processor is NOT the sole determinant of the output of a PC. No matter how sophisticated or fast the processor is, it is completely useless without the complicated software written by man. Such is the same with the human brain... ues it does process words and images but the brain is not solely responsible for processing THOUGHT and REASONING. A goat is able to process images... however it is not able to process complicated human thought.

I'm not sure how applicable the issue of diet is. If you insist that we consider its effects then would you also be willing to admit that we can also generate thought in the lab by injecting a neurotransmitter into the brain?

The bolded is you making things up. How do you know a goat is not capable of processing complicated thoughts? Have you spoken to or analysed a goat's thoughts before? Maybe the goat actually processes more complicated thoughts than humans but then decide, like king solomon, that all is vanity, and continue munching his leaves.

Mr_Anony:
I am afraid you are just pulling us back and forth and wasting our time.......we both know you haven't given us a clear answer.

I can't stop laughing.
This is better than going to the theatre.

advocate666:

The bolded is you making things up. How do you know a goat is not capable of processing complicated thoughts? Have spoken to or analysed a goat thought before? Maybe the goat actually processes more complicated thoughts than humans but then decide, like king solomon, that all is vanity, and continue munching his leaves.

True. This Douglas Adams quote intrigues me

"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc., and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

Affiliated:

True. This Douglas Adams quote intrigues me

"Humans think they are smarter than dolphins because we build cars and buildings and start wars etc., and all that dolphins do is swim in the water, eat fish and play around. Dolphins believe that they are smarter for exactly the same reasons."

But, but we are the centre of the universe. The cosmos was specially custom built for just us....

wiegraf:

But, but we are the centre of the universe. The cosmos was specially custom built for just us....

No!! It was specially custom "created" for us Martians. We rebelled against the tyrant and he sent a flood to destroy us and then fire to roast the whole planet and that's why it looks all dry and crusty today. Luckily some us were able to escape to this planet and blend in with his new "special" creations,humans.

wiegraf:

But, but we are the centre of the universe. The cosmos was specially custom built for just us....

Are you shitting me? One funny part of the bible is when God created the Sun and Moon and stars to give light upon the earth. Under the best conditions, only 6,000 stars out of an approximate 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 [There are far more than this] are visible to the naked eye. I wonder who all the other stars are giving light to. Its stupid statements like this that will later make man believe such nonsense like the cosmos was specially custom built just for us.
http://articles.cnn.com/2003-07-22/tech/stars.survey_1_sextillion-big-number-universe?_s=PM:TECH

I hope you're just kidding though because it would be sad if you aren't

Mr_Anony:
I am afraid you are just pulling us back and forth and wasting our time.......we both know you haven't given us a clear answer.

In order to proceed however, I'll take it that for you somehow, physical chemical reactions cause your non-physical thoughts.

P/s: your statement that you can only think of physical things is not only irrelevant to the non-physical nature of thoughts, it is also false. I am sure you can think of abstracts e.g numbers

Numbers are represented by symbols. . . .

Let's proceed:

Question 3: How is this soul affixed to the body while you are alive?

My answer: Since we have already established that the soul is a non-physical entity, asking how it is affixed to a physical body is irrelevant. It is like asking "how is software affixed to a disk?"

There is a way that soft ware is affixed to a disk and it is well explained here

If however your question really means how the soul came to be associated with the body, then my answer is that God made us and formed our bodies to 'house' our souls. In a similar way you can create information and put it 'in' a disk.

So what does our soul make our body do?. . . Is it our soul that make us reason, think, dream, display emotion etc?

My question: If your non-physical thoughts are a result of chemical reactions, are these chemical reactions random or can you tell me exactly who controls them i.e Can you choose to think of a particular thing or are these thoughts(chemical reactions) just randomly happening?

You don't have to respond to the following, it is just added so that you can get an understanding of the sort of question I am asking:

They are not random. The brain is made up of cells called neurons. These cells have nerve endings called synapses and dendrites. Nerve endings release chemical and electrical stimuli to communicate with each other. This brain communication forms neuro-pathways in the brain and is the basis for how the brain works. Lets take the temporal lobes for example. . .When I listen to rap music for example, my brain responds through the activity of these lobes. At the top of each temporal lobe is an area responsible for receiving information from my ears. The underside of each temporal lobe plays a crucial role in forming and retrieving memories, including those associated with rap and other types of music on general. They have a working process and are not random. . .

Martian:

No!! It was specially custom "created" for us Martians. We rebelled against the tyrant and he sent a flood to destroy us and then fire to roast the whole planet and that's why it looks all dry and crusty today. Luckily some us were able to escape to this planet and blend in with his new "special" creations,humans.

Wow. Another cuckoo. Last I checked your treasured science claimed that mars may have been capable of supporting life at some point in time, but have you been there to see for yourself?! And when in atheist mode you'll probably claim you don't use blind faith, imagine...

You're clearly deluded. Martians? Are they green? Evidence where? Talking snakes and fires allegedly told some ancient ignorant goatmen otherwise so you must be wrong. Either ways, god redesigned it when he made us his new favorites.

Such folly

Affiliated:

Are you shitting me? One funny part of the bible is when God created the Sun and Moon and stars to give light upon the earth. Under the best conditions, only 6,000 stars out of an approximate 70,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 [There are far more than this] are visible to the naked eye. I wonder who all the other stars are giving light to. Its stupid statements like this that will later make man believe such nonsense like the cosmos was specially custom built just for us.
http://articles.cnn.com/2003-07-22/tech/stars.survey_1_sextillion-big-number-universe?_s=PM:TECH

I hope you're just kidding though because it would be sad if you aren't

Really? How could one be so wrong? You've read the bible, but have you READ the bible? Clearly not, else you'd know it was not wrong.

Alas, the fo.ol hath said...

wiegraf:

Really? How could one be so wrong? You've read the bible, but have you READ the bible? Clearly not, else you'd know it was not wrong.

Alas, the fo.ol hath said...

Alas the fo.ol hath said the cosmos was specially custom built for us. Take it in good faith that I know and understand the bible more than you

wiegraf:

Really? How could one be so wrong? You've read the bible, but have you READ the bible? Clearly not, else you'd know it was not wrong.

Alas, the fo.ol hath said...

You may want to put sarcasm marks at the end of your post because it is lost on some folks.

Affiliated:

Alas the fo.ol hath said the cosmos was specially custom built for us. Take it in good faith that I know and understand the bible more than you

Lmfao..
This thread's hilarious.

musKeeto:
Lmfao..
This thread's hilarious.

I like the way the thread is going. Not like the usual Pull Him Down syndrome.

davidylan:

I may be naive here but does that mean mazaje's point is that thought is a spiritual concept?

hello dave lets allow him to go wit non physical. Maybe it might be but lets wait and see.

Affiliated:

Alas the fo.ol hath said the cosmos was specially custom built for us. Take it in good faith that I know and understand the bible more than you

*smh*

Simply put, you're a spiritual midget, that's why you cant understand something so simple...

It's really sad. I do, do feel sorry for folk without the holy sp.irit. You have open up and let him in, in all ways, f.ool. You have to form a special relationship with him

I'll pray for you

Those of you that are derailing the thread should pls keep off. . .Why wuna wan spoil the show na?. . .Make wuna no vex abeg. . .

wiegraf:

*smh*

Simply put, you're a spiritual midget, that's why you cant understand something so simple...

It's really sad. I do, do feel sorry for folk without the holy sp.irit. You have open up and let him in, in all ways, f.ool. You have to form a special relationship with him

I'll pray for you

The basis on which I claim to know and understand the bible more than you is that your default paradigm concerning the bible is that the bible is the perfect word of God and you must interpret all its inconsistencies to the bias you have been programmed with. i however research the bible with a paradigm of what it really is. The work of man [possibly junkies] and compiled by politicians. With this view in mind I see all its glorious inconsistencies for what they really are. The people that compiled the religious books however infused some sort of power into it...
But enough about that. I agree I am a spiritual midget and a fo.ol [At least to you]. So please explain this simple thing that has been revealed to you by the holyspirit for the benefit of we foolish midgets. Why do only six thousand out of 70 sextiliion stars give light upon the earth when God created them all to enable us see at night?

mazaje: Those of you that are derailing the thread should pls keep off. . .Why wuna wan spoil the show na?. . .Make wuna no vex abeg. . .

Too slow. Get to the main dish. There's only so much I can take while waiting. Where's the blood?

mazaje: Those of you that are derailing the thread should pls keep off. . .Why wuna wan spoil the show na?. . .Make wuna no vex abeg. . .

Abeg no vex. Wiegraf let's leave this thread. I created another thread

https://www.nairaland.com/1147211/thread-wiegraf-affiliated-all-other

Affiliated:

The basis on which I claim to know and understand the bible more than you is that your default paradigm concerning the bible is that the bible is the perfect word of God and you must interpret all its inconsistencies to the bias you have been programmed with. i however research the bible with a paradigm of what it really is. The work of man [possibly junkies] and compiled by politicians. With this view in mind I see all its glorious inconsistencies for what they really are. The people that compiled the religious books however infused some sort of power into it...
But enough about that. I agree I am a spiritual midget and a fo.ol [At least to you]. So please explain this simple thing that has been revealed to you by the holyspi.rit for the benefit of we fo.olish midgets. Why do only six thousand out of 70 sextiliion stars give light upon the earth when God created them all to enable us see at night?

Lololol. Dude, wiegraf is an atheist.

Reyginus: Lololol. Dude, wiegraf is an atheist.

WTF? This dude was trolling me? and to think I created a thread. Smh

Affiliated: I created another thread
https://www.nairaland.com/1147211/thread-wiegraf-affiliated-all-other

Somebody please stop them! They are going to draw blood.

Affiliated:

WTF? This dude was trolling me? and to think I created a thread. Smh

I just hope you come out whole.

Reyginus: I just hope you come out whole.

Divert to new thread and let Mazaje and Mr_Anony keep explaining the matter of whether thoughts are physical and can be constructed or injected in other beings.

Affiliated:

Divert to new thread and let Mazaje and Mr_Anony keep explaining the matter of whether thoughts are physical and can be constructed or injected in other beings.

I will stick to both. :-P

mazaje:
They are not random. The brain is made up of cells called neurons. These cells have nerve endings called synapses and dendrites. Nerve endings release chemical and electrical stimuli to communicate with each other. This brain communication forms neuro-pathways in the brain and is the basis for how the brain works. Lets take the temporal lobes for example. . .When I listen to rap music for example, my brain responds through the activity of these lobes. At the top of each temporal lobe is an area responsible for receiving information from my ears. The underside of each temporal lobe plays a crucial role in forming and retrieving memories, including those associated with rap and other types of music on general. They have a working process and are not random. . .

If the above is correct, then what is responsible for the diversity in thought processes if 10 people listened to the same rap music?

Affiliated:

The basis on which I claim to know and understand the bible more than you is that your default paradigm concerning the bible is that the bible is the perfect word of God and you must interpret all its inconsistencies to the bias you have been programmed with. i however research the bible with a paradigm of what it really is. The work of man [possibly junkies] and compiled by politicians. With this view in mind I see all its glorious inconsistencies for what they really are. The people that compiled the religious books however infused some sort of power into it...
But enough about that. I agree I am a spiritual midget and a fo.ol [At least to you]. So please explain this simple thing that has been revealed to you by the holyspirit for the benefit of we foolish midgets. Why do only six thousand out of 70 sextiliion stars give light upon the earth when God created them all to enable us see at night?

*strawman*