PAGAN 9JA:


ok so you want to play the "human" card, eh? then why are those ffellows not bothered about our culture, our religions , our JUJU, our Ifa divination, our Spirituality, our Leaders, etc. why are we(I MEAN "YOU" as "humans of Africa" always doing the A$$-licking

you meant you are doing the as.s licking. and doing the ass licking to who if i may ask?... btw why should anyone be bothered about your culture when you are not bothered about it your self..

greatgenius: btw why should anyone be bothered about your culture when you are not bothered about it your self..

explain yourself!

^^^ what exactly do yo want me to explain.. do you honestly think you are bothered about "your" culture?.. and why are you mad..

@okeyxyz what does sacrifice mean to you.

greatgenius: ^^^ what exactly do yo want me to explain.. do you honestly think you are bothered about "your" culture?.. and why are you mad..

if i ever not bothered about my culture, i would not have made all those nearly 6000 posts on Nairaland. because you are discrediting my works by making such stupid statements.

Kay 17: And more to think about

well share your thoughts. your the op

PAGAN 9JA:


if i ever not bothered about my culture, i would not have made all those nearly 6000 posts on Nairaland. because you are discrediting my works by making such stupid statements.

i tell you what you are livig in the past. you are living your forefathers way of life and not your "way of life".. you are not here to live in the past or other peoples dreams and way of life..

btw i made no such discrediting you are.. i only made an observation brother

greatgenius: i tell you what you are livig in the past. you are living your forefathers way of life and not your "way of life".. you are not here to live other people dreams and way of life..

da f***?! explain yourself!

also why would i live other peoples dreams and lives? also who are you to decide what other peoples dreams and lives are

My brother your sins are for you to carry all the embezzlement, all the fornication and adulteries you have committed will be tabled before you on the d day. Stop disturbing jesus, his blood is dried the very first day he died.

PAGAN 9JA:




da f***?! explain yourself!

also why would i live other peoples dreams and lives? also who are you to decide what other peoples dreams and lives are

i dont have to explain nothing you know what i meant... lets take this to the beggining what does culture mean to you.. you know what nevermind we are derailling..if you want to talk about culture open another thread and we will discuss.. we are veering away from the topic. peace

Chuksxp: That's the thing, Jesus sacrifice is necessary to us and God. And it is more important than animal sacrifice. Animal sacrifice was a temporary covering for sin, it could never really cleanse us from sin (see Hebrew 10:11)

Yes, God is omnipotent. He can do anything. But He will never go against His own word/law. According to His law, the wages of sin is death (see Romans 6:23) and the soul that sins shall die (see Ezekiel 18:4b). He is a just God who keeps to His word. He couldn't just let us off the hook just because He could. That would make Him unjust. Think about it, how would you view a judge in a law court who out-rightly declares a murderer to be innocent? Everyone would be outraged by his unjust judgement, right?

On the other hand, God is a merciful and loving God. It is not His will for anyone to perish for their sins (see 2 Peter 3:9). So then, what should a MERCIFUL and JUST God do to sinners/law breakers like us? If He gives us the punishment we deserve, then what about His mercy? If He overlooks our offenses and let's us off the hook, then what about His justice? Being a great God that He is, He made a perfect plan. He poured out His wrath and justice on Jesus so that He would have mercy on us. He expressed His Mercy and justice simultaneously!

Back to the law court scenario: so the just judge sentences the murderer to life imprisonment or a billion naira fine. And of course the murderer couldn't pay. Then all of a sudden, the judge's son steps in and pays the billion naira fine on behalf of the murderer so he would be set free. He pays the debt the murderer owed so the murderer could be forgiven and released.

I hope this clarified some things for you. God bless!

But how can you be judge for murder that you have not committed?

Is like saying a just judge sentenced you for an offence your great, great, great grand father is supposed to have committed. That is a weired case. Please do not hang your salvation on that assumption. It is not worth it. Your soul is too precious to be bartered on some ancient tricks.

greatgenius: i dont have to explain nothing you know what i meant... lets take this to the beggining what does culture mean to you.. you know what nevermind we are derailling..if you want to talk about culture open another thread and we will discuss.. we are veering away from the topic. peace

no you made some brash statements and i need the reply or else take them back!

please explain to me how my forefathers way of life is not my way of life? is their way of life limited to just 1 forefather or is there a limited number of forefathers to which that way of life applies to?

culture is the way of life as declared by my tribal society. now what?

and also reply to this:

PAGAN 9JA:


also why would i live other peoples dreams and lives? also who are you to decide what other peoples dreams and lives are

you made the statement, now reply or else run away lyk a coward.

^^^ lol you funny..

okeyxyz:

Nice!! one bros, If for nothing at all, I admire your debating skills, your logic is clever(not necessarily truth) and worthy of engagement. The flaw in your arguments is that you are taking the points in backward sequence. Fine, you don't fear hell because you don't believe in any god, but you still have fears that compel you to do good, at least of which is a conscience or moral code. It weighs on you when you do evil and it rewards(eg endorphin boost) you when you do good. You may do good not because you love good, but maybe out of fear of the relationships you stand to lose, or out of fear of the stress and adverse consequences of doing evil, in whatever way it applies to you. Even the christian scripture acknowleges rewards(for good) and convictions(for evil) regardless of religion or god awareness.

14 For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, 15 in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them(Romans 2:15-16 )

The case of dog training without physical smacking also illustrates my points. A dog is rewarded for behaving as his trainer requests, and when it misbehaves, such a reward is withdrawn, so this dog learns to associate reward with good behaviour and loss of reward with bad behviour. So the fear of loss compels it to behave accordingly.

WRONG, ALL SO VERY WRONG!!! OH DEAR $DEITY, WE'RE ALL GONNA DIE!!!!! HOW CAN YOU LIVE WITH YOURSELF!!!!!!

But I don't really feel like debating. What the hell, maybe just a bit, if that is possible...

Fear can always play a part, for most situations this is true. But you're ignoring the degree, or what the primary motivator would be. If your dominant motivation is fear, then you're much more likely to do something silly. The phobias for instance, are well known to turn otherwise normal people into irrational ones. Indeed, that is very similar to what I allude to. An otherwise decent woman who doesn't share the same faith with her neighbors prohibits her kids from playing with said neighbors kids because she is afraid they will be corrupted and sent to hell. Irrational. Popular today, homophobia. Irrational. The most harmless, victimless offenses, like eating pork. Irrational again. This list goes on and on and on. Fear leads people to abandon reason much more readily than other competing factors.

There's also a reason for kids from stable, loving homes being trusted more than those raised in unstable environments. Fear, negative emotions etc, tend to not bring out the best in us. The dog analogy is actually more relevant to this scenario actually, I don't particularly have enough time to expatiate at the moment. But you should get where I'm going to I hope from just this, and both situations are rather similar.

okeyxyz:
A fundamental flaw of most people is to assume that sacrifices are not replaceable or recoverable, but this is fallacious. People make sacrifices because they have a hope of a reward that is greater than what they are giving up(no matter how great or "meaningful" ) This is the case with jesus, dying and inheriting power and a superior life than he had before. A fat person who goes on diets and gym sessions suffers in doing in doing so, but he/she is aware that the health and social rewards of being slim, fit and healthy far outweighs the pains he goes through.

https://www.google.com.ng/search?q=sacrifice+definition&btnG=Search&oe=utf-8&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&sei=qU7rULzNNerY0QXfwoC4BQ&gbv=2

Noun
An act of slaughtering an animal or person or surrendering a possession as an offering to God or to a divine or supernatural figure.
Verb
Offer or kill as a religious sacrifice.

or, from another source

1.
a. The act of offering something to a deity in propitiation or homage, especially the ritual slaughter of an animal or a person.
b. A victim offered in this way.
2.
a. Forfeiture of something highly valued for the sake of one considered to have a greater value or claim.
b. Something so forfeited.
3.
a. Relinquishment of something at less than its presumed value.
b. Something so relinquished.
c. A loss so sustained.

Ok, seems your definition is text book definition of sacrifice, more or else. My definition is more of the second bolded, but yours seems to be more accepted. In that importance of the sacrifice need not drastic, yes? So, you're rice.

It changes little though. By your definition, you accept his sacrifice is of little value to him, but I will take that even further. It means naught to him.

This is simply the case of "can an omnipotent build a stone he cannot pick up?" in another guise. You're saying he can, more or else, thereby putting his omnipotency into question. So, with the bolded, is jesus god or no? (I'm not sure as the answer seems to depend on which xtian you ask ). If he is, then how can there be something superior to what an omnipotent already has? That doesn't make it very omnipotent, yes? Really, regardless of if jesus is god or no, this still stands as god seems to have an agenda to attain something 'superior', hence all the story of sending himself to earth to kill himself etc. Again, this questions his omnipotency. An omnipotent cannot truly lose (or gain for that matter) anything, 'meaningful' or no, at all. If he could, he wouldn't be omnipotent, yes? It would imply there was something it could not get without saying abracadabra. So if you assert he made a sacrifice, you are also asserting he is not omnipotent. If you're fine with this then you're good to go.

Lol, someone's gonna wake up to a butthurt.. Hehehe

greatgenius: @okeyxyz what does sacrifice mean to you.

Simple!! Sacrifice means giving up something of value with the hope of getting another of greater value.
This is a christian principle and this same rules every profit oriented effort. Whether studying for exams, being in a relationship, investing in business, etc.

okeyxyz:

Simple!! Sacrifice means giving up something of value with the hope of getting another of greater value.
This is a christian principle and this same rules every profit oriented effort. Whether studying for exams, being in a relationship, investing in business, etc.

No difference btw investment and sacrifice to you?? Is there a greater opportunity cost in a sacrifice?

okeyxyz:

Simple!! Sacrifice means giving up something of value with the hope of getting another of greater value.
This is a christian principle and this same rules every profit oriented effort. Whether studying for exams, being in a relationship, investing in business, etc.

So 'life' was of value to He who is eternal?

Kay 17:
No difference btw investment and sacrifice to you?? Is there a greater opportunity cost in a sacrifice?

Yes! There's no difference in the act. You are now asking a question of who made the greater and more befitting sacrifice, not whether they made a sacrifice.

musKeeto:
So 'life' was of value to He who is eternal?

He transcended from a mortal state to immortal. How could he die if he wasn't mortal? But he had faith that the eternal father is able to raise him from the death.

okeyxyz:

He transcended from a mortal state to immortal. How could he die if he wasn't mortal? But he had faith that the eternal father is able to raise him from the death.

Was Jesus always mortal?

musKeeto:

Was Jesus always mortal?

Of course! His life on earth before crucifixion was mortal.

okeyxyz:

Of course! His life on earth before crucifixion was mortal.

So he had an experience of immortality before becoming mortal. Death was just an excuse to go back to a state he had always enjoyed. How the Bleep does this imply sacrifice?

okeyxyz:

Simple!! Sacrifice means giving up something of value with the hope of getting another of greater value.
This is a christian principle and this same rules every profit oriented effort. Whether studying for exams, being in a relationship, investing in business, etc.

good.. in other words it based on conditions or expectations of a higher return of value... Understand that any offering or form of gift based on condition or expectation of return of higher value is not TRUE LOVE...sacrificing is based on a judgement.. a judgement that something is of a lesser value to a future return or expectation.. True love is all inclusive.. it doesn't judge... "God" does not judge and his love is unconditional.. "humans" judge ..not God..

It is a fallacy and wrong for Christians to deem jesus "sacrifice" as true love especially knowing that it was based on a condition as they have been made to believe ..a condition that says if you don't believe and accept him as your savior then then you will go to hell( an obvious lie purported and indoctrinated by the religious elite for the masses.. ) True love or unconditional love is non threatening and devoid of fear..
The truth is jesus whole life was a gift, an offering based on true love.. when you give a gift you expect nothing in return..because there are more where that came from you are saying.. it is from the dept of your soul and heart..

It is erroneous to believe someone loves you unconditionally and at the same time believe they will throw you in hell if don't obey or believe in them.. That's a conditional love.. human love..

So my brother like I said there is a reason why I chose gift instead of sacrifice..

okeyxyz:

Simple!! Sacrifice means giving up something of value with the hope of getting another of greater value.
This is a christian principle and this same rules every profit oriented effort. Whether studying for exams, being in a relationship, investing in business, etc.

dont lie! you copied this from one of my previous posts! SACRIFICE IS 100% PAGAN!

PAGAN 9JA:

dont lie! you copied this from one of my previous posts! SACRIFICE IS 100% PAGAN!

Ehh.., Really?, So Jesus copied from you? Cos I thought I was paraphrasing him.

musKeeto:
So he had an experience of immortality before becoming mortal. Death was just an excuse to go back to a state he had always enjoyed. How the Bleep does this imply sacrifice?

I have a lot more I could teach you about mysteries of the godhead, but you are not ready or capable to recieve them. My assertions that Jesus offered himself as a sacrifice for salvation of man is all I can preach to you about, for it is the founding principle on which all of christianity is built. If you cannot process this(not that "YOU MUST", christianity is not for all), then you will not be able to process higher mysteries that I have. They would be foolishness to you.

okeyxyz:

Ehh.., Really?, So Jesus copied from you? Cos I thought I was paraphrasing him.

So, what is your definition of omnipotent anyhow? And do you think your definition is logically consistent?

@op Check this thread

https://www.nairaland.com/539038/why-did-god-kill-son

greatgenius: good.. in other words it based on conditions or expectations of a higher return of value... Understand that any offering or form of gift based on condition or expectation of return of higher value is not TRUE LOVE...sacrificing is based on a judgement.. a judgement that something is of a lesser value to a future return or expectation.. True love is all inclusive.. it doesn't judge... "God" does not judge and his love is unconditional.. "humans" judge ..not God..

#True! God's love or gift is unconditional and what that means is that it is freely available to any that believes, whether "jew or gentile", but the benefits of this gift is achieved only by those who make efforts to utilize this gift. Like I'd illustrated with real life analogies: If you are in school, it is an opportunity(gift) to excel intellectually, but you have to actually participate in the learning & scoring processes to actually be awarded a degree, not by playing truancy. The parable of the talents illustrates this principle. Every reward comes by work\sacrifice.

It is a fallacy and wrong for Christians to deem jesus "sacrifice" as true love especially knowing that it was based on a condition as they have been made to believe ..a condition that says if you don't believe and accept him as your savior then then you will go to hell( an obvious lie purported and indoctrinated by the religious elite for the masses.. ) True love or unconditional love is non threatening and devoid of fear..

The truth is jesus whole life was a gift, an offering based on true love.. when you give a gift you expect nothing in return..because there are more where that came from you are saying.. it is from the dept of your soul and heart..

It is erroneous to believe someone loves you unconditionally and at the same time believe they will throw you in hell if don't obey or believe in them.. That's a conditional love.. human love..

So my brother like I said there is a reason why I chose gift instead of sacrifice..

#Why do you say true love is non-threatening? This is pure human sentimentality and a corruption of spirituality. True love warns you of dangers of not abiding by the true practices. True love is tough, not feeble. If your teacher warns you to take your studies seriously, else failure will be your inheritance, how can that not be true love? Yes, he's always available(unconditional) to help you when you need help & guidiance but he'll never reward you for refusing to study & do your assignments.

wiegraf:
So, what is your definition of omnipotent anyhow? And do you think your definition is logically consistent?

Omni-potent = All-powerful. Every knowlege\power in the universe is present\established in god. "FOR THE EARTH IS THE LORD'S, AND ALL IT CONTAINS(1 Corinthians 10:26 )"

Another fallacy amongsts humans is the assumption that being all-powerful means you can disregard or forbid all laws of nature. Power does not exist in a vacuum, rather is the product of laid down laws, just like electricity, magnetism & gravity are governed by laws. The christian scripture explicitly commands us to "be in subjection to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God(Romans 13:1)", and those which exist are established by God.. This is why it is absolute nonsense when people say christianity is against science or politics or any system\knowlege of operation.

Another Ihedinobi in the making.. So many words, little substance, can't even define sacrifice..
Smh..