"for he does not willingly afflict or grieve the children of men" - Lamentations 3:33

"The Almighty is beyond our reach and exalted in power; in his justice and great righteousness, he does not oppress" - Job 37:23

Oh how the false church has misrepresented the character of GOD and are unknowingly doing the devils bidding !

frosbel: "for he does not willingly afflict or grieve the children of men" - Lamentations 3:33

"The Almighty is beyond our reach and exalted in power; in his justice and great righteousness, he does not oppress" - Job 37:23

Oh how the false church has misrepresented the character of GOD and are unknowingly doing the devils bidding !

*dont cry, dont cry*

Just keep on doing the Good work.

The honest hearted ones will see the truth and take action for their salvation.

That is why preaching the truth is very important befor God right now.

Peace.

moredendisc:

@Ubenedictus

It is good to know you use concordances lexicons, dictionaries and other helpful resources and I am pleased to hear that

I knew you'll say gnashing of teeth is simply a sign of regret

which is why I provided those verses to confirm.

You didn't let me down

"The thieves also, which were crucified with him, cast the same in his teeth". - Matt 27:44 KJV

"And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth." - Matt 13:42 KJV

"cast the same in his teeth" or "gnashing of teeth" means mouthing off or angry complaining

It also means criticize in an abusive or angrily insulting manner

Not signs of regret as most have been led to believe in teachings or Sunday School classes but rather it was about been abusive or complaining

Remember what the rich man in Sheol was doing. Yeah he was complaining, gnashing his teeth etc

Can you, now, see how the examples concerns the fact that hell does not render Sheol accurately?

Those verses Matt 27:44 and Matt 13:42, as examples, were brought up to bring attention to the fact that idioms can or were mistranslated, misinterpreted or misunderstood

Sorry, it was a trick question. I know you wouldn't have minded

Let the paradigm shift continue with the way bibles are read and/or with the way teachings, traditions or doctrines are received

interesting u step me up to take a fall, lesson learnt, i'll be more careful. I thing i notice is u didnt really give me a source dat say gnashing teeth is insulting! U just gave me ur idea! That doesnt really help now does it?

Image123:
from merriam-webster's online dictionary,
Definition of HELL

1
a (1) : a nether world in which the dead continue to exist : hades (2) : the nether realm of the devil and the demons in which the damned suffer everlasting punishment —often used in curses <go to hell> or as a generalized term of abuse <the hell with it>

2
a : a place or state of misery, torment, or wickedness <war is hell — W. T. Sherman>
b : a place or state of turmoil or destruction <all hell broke loose>
c : a severe scolding; also : flak, grief <gave me hell for coming in late>
d : unrestrained fun or sportiveness <the kids were full of hell> —often used in the phrase for the hell of it especially to suggest action on impulse or without a serious motive <decided to go for the hell of it>
e : an extremely unpleasant and often inescapable situation <rush-hour hell>
Synonyms: Gehenna, Pandemonium, perdition, Tophet

Note the bolded and learn. The ENGLISH word for hades and gehenna is HELL.

dis is my point. Thanks.

10:08 jan 20, i wrote a post, hell, is from d anglo saxon root meaning to hide, hole, hollow and a dark hidden place
hades is frm d root fid, meaning a dark hidden place.
The meaning is d same! Hell translates hades as literally as posible.

Ubenedictus:

interesting u step me up to take a fall, lesson learnt, i'll be more careful.

I thing i notice is u didnt really give me a source dat say gnashing teeth is insulting!

U just gave me ur idea!

That doesnt really help now does it?

@Ubenedictus

It is an idiom, it is not my idea

gnashing of teeth
Figuratively. a show of anger or dismay.
- Biblical: "there will be weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth".

Example: After a little gnashing of teeth and a few threats, the boss calmed down and became almost reasonable.
See also: gnash, teeth

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/gnashing+of+teeth

Ubenedictus:

10:08 jan 20, i wrote a post, hell, is from d anglo saxon root meaning to hide, hole, hollow and a dark hidden place

hades is frm d root fid, meaning a dark hidden place.

The meaning is d same!

Hell translates hades as literally as posible.

@Ubenedictus

Couldn't resist the urge to ignore this. Incidentally the same pole position Image123 is latched on to

The idea of Hell english word according to Greek mythology original greek word Hades is that ONLY bad people end up there (i.e. no good people ever end up in hell)

The idea of Sheol to the Jews is that bad people & good people ended up there, however they were separated by a chasm or gulf

Hell is a makeshift once and for all translation for Hades, and Hades is the absence of a better word translation of the Hebrew original word Sheol

The translators should have stuck with Sheol instead of trying to translate it

So what's your response to this: Did good people, at some time, ever end up in Hell?

moredendisc:

@Ubenedictus

Couldn't resist the urge to ignore this. Incidentally the same pole position Image123 is latched on to

The idea of Hell english word according to Greek mythology original greek word Hades is that ONLY bad people end up there (i.e. no good people ever end up in hell)

The idea of Sheol to the Jews is that bad people & good people ended up there, however they were separated by a chasm or gulf

Hell is a makeshift once and for all translation for Hades, and Hades is the absence of a better word translation of the Hebrew original word Sheol

The translators should have stuck with Sheol instead of trying to translate it

So what's your response to this: Did good people, at some time, ever end up in Hell?

the Bible versions talk of Jesus soul in hell in Acts. where did you get this idea?

Image123:
the Bible versions talk of Jesus soul in hell in Acts. where did you get this idea?

Jesus's soul in HELL What nonsense are you talking about ?

So Jesus did not fully die in your opinion .

Image123:

the Bible versions talk of Jesus soul in hell in Acts.

where did you get this idea?

@Image123

Exactly what I am trying to clarify & pass on too

I got it from here and there

however the Hades that was translated for Sheol according to Greek Mythology is place when ONLY the bad people end up ( i.e. no souls of good people end up here)

Sheol is a Hebrew word and a Jewish concept. Hades on the other is a greek word and a Greek concept.

In the absence of a better word render, Hades has been used for Sheol in spite of the conflicts in concept or idea

Sheol is original, Hades is make do

Jesus actually went to Sheol and not Hades or Hell

Hades - Look up Hades at Dictionary.com

1590s, from Greek Haides, in Homer the name of the god of the underworld, of unknown origin.
Perhaps literally "the invisible" [Watkins].
The name of the god transferred in later Greek writing to his kingdom.
Related: Hadal (adj.), 1964; Hadean.

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=Hades

[size=14pt]The word "Hades" in Christian usage in English[/size]

In English usage the word "Hades" first appears around 1600, as a term used to explain the article in the Apostles' Creed, "He descended into hell", where the place of waiting (the place of "the spirits in prison" 1 Peter 3:19) into which Jesus is there affirmed to have gone after the Crucifixion, known as the Harrowing of Hell, needed to be distinguished from what had come to be more usually called "hell", i.e. the place or state of those finally damned.

This development whereby "hell" came to be used to mean only the "hell of the damned" affected also the Latin word "infernum" and the corresponding words in Latin-derived languages, as in the name "Inferno" given to the first part of Dante's Divina Commedia. Greek, on the other hand, has kept the original meaning of "ᾅδης" (Hades) and uses the word "κόλασις" (kolasis – literally, "punishment"; cf. Matthew 25:46, which speaks of "everlasting kolasis" ) to refer to what nowadays is usually meant by "hell" in English.

[size=14pt]Judeo-Christian Hades[/size]
Main article: Hades in Christianity

Hades is the standard translation for Sheol in the Septuagint, Josephus, Philo of Alexandria, and other Jewish works written in Greek.

In the Greek version of an obscure Judaeo-Christian work known as 3 Baruch (never considered canonical by any known group), "Hades" is described as a dark, serpent-like monster or dragon who drinks a cubit of water from the sea every day, and is 200 plethra (20,200 English feet, or nearly four miles) in length.

Like other first-century Jews literate in Greek, early Christians used the Greek word Hades to translate the Hebrew word Sheol. Thus, in Acts 2:27, the Hebrew phrase in Psalm 16:10 appears in the form: "you will not abandon my soul to Hades." Death and Hades are repeatedly associated in the Book of Revelation.

The New Testament uses the Greek word Hades to refer to the temporary abode of the dead (e.g. Acts 2:31; Revelation 20:13).
Only one passage describes hades as a place of torment, the story of Lazarus and Dives (Luke 16:19-31). Here, Jesus depicts a wicked man suffering fiery torment in hades, which is contrasted with the bosom of Abraham, and explains that it is impossible to cross over from one location to the other.

Some scholars believe that this parable reflects the intertestamental Jewish view of hades (or sheol) as containing separate divisions for the wicked and righteous

In Revelation 20:13-14 hades is itself thrown into the "lake of fire" after being emptied of the dead.

In Latin, Hades could be translated as Purgatorium (Purgatory in English use) after about 1200 A.D.,[26] but no modern English translations relates Hades to Purgatory.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hades

Ubenedictus: 10:08 jan 20, i wrote a post, hell, is from d anglo saxon root meaning to hide, hole, hollow and a dark hidden place
hades is frm d root fid, meaning a dark hidden place.
The meaning is d same! Hell translates hades as literally as posible.

trying to justify a lie, that Hedes = hell. No it is not the same thing.

Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Acts was written in Greek, the writer and the Author saw nothing wrong with translating Sheol as Hades and then in English as Hell. you're much troubled over nothing. you know next to nothing about TRANSLATION.

BTW, this thread has lost its rails.

Image123: Acts 2:27 Because thou wilt not leave my soul in hell, neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. 2:31 He seeing this before spake of the resurrection of Christ, that his soul was not left in hell, neither his flesh did see corruption.
Acts was written in Greek, the writer and the Author saw nothing wrong with translating Sheol as Hades and then in English as Hell. you're much troubled over nothing. you know next to nothing about TRANSLATION.

Hades is the greek word for the place of the dead or grave.

Jesus DIED , was buried and rose again.

acording to your erroneous theology, which by the way I do not blame you for , Jesus did not wholly die, his resurrection was a farce because only his body died while his soul went into your favourite but non-existent place called HELL.

Now , there are a number of problems with your logic.

1. Attributes immortality to the SOUL when the SOUL is in fact the whole MAN and not just his body.

For example.

"And I'll say to myself, "You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry."'" - Luke 12;19

Kindly , explain to the house how a SOUL can :

1. Eat
2. Drink


2. It suggests , this time very dangerously, that Jesus Christ did not fully DIE , in fact , while Mary and the rest where weeping , Jesus in one form or the other was in HELL doing battle.

Again, this is totally unbiblical, Jesus died 100% which is why the act of resurrection was such a powerful , miraculous , death destroying, sin smashing and devil shaming event.

The devil held men in fear because of death all their lives, but now JESUS had come and defeated death by obedience to the father, paving way for all who will follow in his footsteps.

"Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil " - Hebrews 2:14

"But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him." - Acts 2:24

^you seem to suffer from traumatic excitement. The issue under focus is that Jesus went to hell and I've presented Scripture to buttress that. Sheol is rightly translated as Hades by God and the writer of Acts, and it is rightly and consistently translated as Hell in english. ruminate on this instead of your eagerness to type out your confusions.

Image123: ^you seem to suffer from traumatic excitement. The issue under focus is that Jesus went to hell and I've presented Scripture to buttress that. Sheol is rightly translated as Hades by God and the writer of Acts, and it is rightly and consistently translated as Hell in english. ruminate on this instead of your eagerness to type out your confusions.

sorry to sound harsh brother, but your reasonining ability seems to be compromised.

Jesus died and went to where all the dead go to, which is either Sheol or Hades the Greek equivalent.

Jesus died wholly. Jesus was not alive in the form of a SOUL in a place called HELL , which according to the false doctrine you worship, is divided into Hell OF torment and paradise of bliss.

Stop being a virus and quit passing on this dangerous cancer of the immortal soul to the ignorant and newbies.

frosbel:

sorry to sound harsh brother, but your reasonining ability seems to be compromised.

Jesus died and went to where all the dead go to, which is either Sheol or Hades the Greek equivalent.

Jesus died wholly. Jesus was not alive in the form of a SOUL in a place called HELL , which according to the false doctrine you worship, is divided into Hell OF torment and paradise of bliss.

Stop being a virus and quit passing on this dangerous cancer of the immortal soul to the ignorant and newbies.

you're getting delirious here, nobody's talked about any immortal soul but you.Try harder to focus, Sheol is a bit different in original concept from Hades. Hades is Pluto the brother of Zeus. nevertheless, God had no issues translating Sheol as Hades in Acts. And no serious person has nightmares when it is translated as Hell in english language.

Image123:
you're getting delirious here, nobody's talked about any immortal soul but you.Try harder to focus, Sheol is a bit different in original concept from Hades. Hades is Pluto the brother of Zeus. nevertheless, God had no issues translating Sheol as Hades in Acts. And no serious person has nightmares when it is translated as Hell in english language.

nightmares You are being presumptuous , but hey , it appears you have now shifted your position on the immortal soul, good to know. Besides no original Greek version contains the words HELL, it is always Hades. Hades was the closest word in meaning to what is commonly referred to as Sheol in the Hebrew language.

Do some study , just my advice.

Image123:
you're getting delirious here, nobody's talked about any immortal soul but you.Try harder to focus, Sheol is a bit different in original concept from Hades. Hades is Pluto the brother of Zeus. nevertheless, God had no issues translating Sheol as Hades in Acts. And no serious person has nightmares when it is translated as Hell in english language.

God translated sheol as Hades When would you stop this arrogant expression of ignorance you always use to ridicule christianity on NL?

Pastor Kun:

God translated sheol as Hades When would you stop this arrogant expression of ignorance you always use to ridicule christianity on NL?

is the book of Acts the Word of God?

moredendisc:

@Ubenedictus

It is an idiom, it is not my idea

gnashing of teeth
Figuratively. a show of anger or dismay.
- Biblical: "there will be weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth".

Example: After a little gnashing of teeth and a few threats, the boss calmed down and became almost reasonable.
See also: gnash, teeth

http://idioms.thefreedictionary.com/gnashing+of+teeth

i did my research, u are correct, gnashing teeth is an expression of rage not regret. Thanks 4 d correction.

frosbel:

nightmares You are being presumptuous , but hey , it appears you have now shifted your position on the immortal soul, good to know. Besides no original Greek version contains the words HELL, it is always Hades. Hades was the closest word in meaning to what is commonly referred to as Sheol in the Hebrew language.

Do some study , just my advice.

you're still in delirium, read through the thread carefully now and observe no one talking about immortal souls except you.
Question: Is Hell a greek word?

Image123:
you're still in delirium, read through the thread carefully now and observe no one talking about immortal souls except you.
Question: Is Hell a greek word?

forgetfulness can be forgiven, but your hastiness in responding before thinking is becoming a trademark.

frosbel:

forgetfulness can be forgiven, but your hastiness in responding before thinking is becoming a trademark.

focus, answer the question, and stop laughing like a foul devil, a fowl devil.
read up the thread incase you're struggling with forgetfulness.

moredendisc:
@Ubenedictus
Couldn't resist the urge to ignore this. Incidentally the same pole position Image123 is latched on to
The idea of Hell english word according to Greek mythology original greek word Hades is that ONLY bad people end up there (i.e. no good people ever end up in hell)
The idea of Sheol to the Jews is that bad people & good people ended up there, however they were separated by a chasm or gulf
Hell is a makeshift once and for all translation for Hades, and Hades is the absence of a better word translation of the Hebrew original word Sheol
The translators should have stuck with Sheol instead of trying to translate it
So what's your response to this: Did good people, at some time, ever end up in Hell?

yeah, i thought that i explained this in my thread on christ desent into hell. Yeah i believe b4 christ death both d just and d unjust were in hell, d just in d bosom of abraham(some theologians call it limbo patria) and d unjust in a not so good part of hell. Ur idea dat d translators shuld stick wit shoel is funny, it is like saying all d hebrew words shuld be left in hebrew, wen d greeks translated d jewish scripture they translated it and no one cried it's funny u dont lash at d greek translators bt u wont spare d english ones even though they translated literally. Really funny!

Image123:
is the book of Acts the Word of God?

So God translated the book of acts to english abi

truthislight:
trying to justify a lie, that Hedes = hell. No it is not the same thing.

hahaha, i didnt justify anything. I just show with proof that hell is a literal translation of hades, u on d other hand is living in denial and trying fantically to run from d fact dat hell translates hades literally.

frosbel:

Hades is the greek word for the place of the dead or grave.
Jesus DIED , was buried and rose again.
acording to your erroneous theology, which by the way I do not blame you for , Jesus did not wholly die, his resurrection was a farce because only his body died while his soul went into your favourite but non-existent place called HELL.
Now , there are a number of problems with your logic.
1. Attributes immortality to the SOUL when the SOUL is in fact the whole MAN and not just his body.
For example.
"And I'll say to myself, "You have plenty of good things laid up for many years. Take life easy; eat, drink and be merry."'" - Luke 12;19
Kindly , explain to the house how a SOUL can :
1. Eat
2. Drink
2. It suggests , this time very dangerously, that Jesus Christ did not fully DIE , in fact , while Mary and the rest where weeping , Jesus in one form or the other was in HELL doing battle.
Again, this is totally unbiblical, Jesus died 100% which is why the act of resurrection was such a powerful , miraculous , death destroying, sin smashing and devil shaming event.
The devil held men in fear because of death all their lives, but now JESUS had come and defeated death by obedience to the father, paving way for all who will follow in his footsteps.
"Since the children have flesh and blood, he too shared in their humanity so that by his death he might destroy him who holds the power of death--that is, the devil " - Hebrews 2:14
"But God raised him from the dead, freeing him from the agony of death, because it was impossible for death to keep its hold on him." - Acts 2:24

i alway knew frosbel will take this discussion to a different tangent, im just suprised it came late.

Pastor Kun:
God translated sheol as Hades When would you stop this arrogant expression of ignorance you always use to ridicule christianity on NL?

it's no ridicle, luke wasn't blind wen he wrote hades, neither did d holyspirit prevent him from using d greek word hades, i'm suprised that hades was ok for d apostles but not ok for xtians of d 21 century.

Interestingly shoel comes from d root "to be hollow" or "sunk in", it refer to a cave, pit, a place under d earth, interestly hell translates it almost exactly literally. So wow, it seem hell translates both hades and shoel without problems.

Pastor Kun:

So God translated the book of acts to english abi

answer the question. is the book of Acts the Word of God?

Ubenedictus: it's no ridicle, luke wasn't blind wen he wrote hades, neither did d holyspirit prevent him from using d greek word hades, i'm suprised that hades was ok for d apostles but not ok for xtians of d 21 century.

they find it difficult to see what i post. If i posted Jesus is Lord, they'd argue against it.