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We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs - Islam for Muslims (18) - Nairaland

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Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 6:42pm On Feb 10, 2013
BetaThings:


They will see the light some day

to see light , you must know darkness. you xtians will never understand this. .
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by tpia5: 6:44pm On Feb 11, 2013
PAGAN 9JA:


to see light , you must know darkness. you xtians will never understand this. .

1. he's muslim

2. humans are 100% in darkness until they see the light of Christ.

doesnt matter if they're in the 12 millionth degree of occultic manifestation or are simply serial fornicators, or are just trekking along with nothing else doing.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 6:46pm On Feb 11, 2013
tpia@:


1. he's muslim

2. humans are 100% in darkness until they see the light of Christ.

doesnt matter if they're in the 12 millionth degree of occultic manifestation or are simply serial fornicators, or are just trekking along with nothing else doing.

1. big difference

2. christ is dead.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by tpia5: 6:48pm On Feb 11, 2013
PAGAN 9JA:


ofcourse. that is the most bullsh!t theory ever. there is no recorded migration from there. neither from Kindah or Himyar. Infact after the fall of the Máarib Dam, the tribes migrated northwards towards the Persian GUlf where they still reside/ they had no reason to trek all the way to Nigeria.

the only time Arabs came to West Africa was during the fatimid caliphate to spread islam and get their slaves.


not every migration is recorded.

2. if a tribe can migrate northward, nothing stops them or others from migrating in other directions

3. history doesnt support your view- emigration is rarely one dimensional

4. the gulf of aden is directly opposite the horn of africa. Whats your reason for assuming there'd be no trade and interaction between these parts? You seem to be looking only at modern day maps, not ancient ones. undecided



the only time Arabs came to West Africa was during the fatimid caliphate to spread islam and get their slaves

and what about the pre-Islamic period, not to mention the era of Islamic expansion in the ME itself?
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by tpia5: 6:56pm On Feb 11, 2013
PAGAN 9JA:


1. big difference

yes, there is. undecided




2. christ is dead.


was.

you know the rest.


seems you must be somehow disturbed by the news of the pope's resignation, hence your sort of agitation.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 8:18pm On Feb 11, 2013
tpia@:



not every migration is recorded.

2. if a tribe can migrate northward, nothing stops them or others from migrating in other directions

3. history doesnt support your view- emigration is rarely one dimensional

4. the gulf of aden is directly opposite the horn of africa. Whats your reason for assuming there'd be no trade and interaction between these parts? You seem to be looking only at modern day maps, not ancient ones. undecided





and what about the pre-Islamic period, not to mention the era of Islamic expansion in the ME itself?

2. There is evidence for the Northwards migration but there is no evidence whatsoever for the Southward migration. also , such a long-distance trekking wouldve left some clues but there is absolutely no evidence. in that case you can also claim that arabs migrated to the Moon. we dont know because we have no evidence.

3. history supports my view. there was o reason for them o come to Nigeria that too in pre-islamic times. = genetically it has been proven tha we are not descended from Arabs so what are you arguing about

4. The "GULF of ADEN" is opposite the horn of Africa. so what? India is opposite the red sea. Afghanistan is nearby. there is Oman to the North. What does this imply? are you teaching me Geography

NIGERIA is not opposite Aden. let me remind you that. there would be trade, though the Arabs mostly traded with the Spice nations. What Ancient maps? are you talking about Pangea, in the days of the Dinosaurs? Actually wtf is your point?!!!! angry angry angry angry


the pre-islamic period?! what pre-islamic period? thy had no motivation to come to West Africa. there were no religious problems or religious motives, they had there own sedantary lifestyle. whay else would they come here??!!

and as i said, the arabs did come to Africa during the islamic period much later. first they went to SOmalia, then Egypt and Sudan and finally to the Maghreb where they established the Fatimid caliphate. however, they did not come and settle in Nigeria, an that too Yorubaland. lol
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 8:23pm On Feb 11, 2013
tpia@:


yes, there is. undecided







was.

you know the rest.


seems you must be somehow disturbed by the news of the pope's resignation, hence your sort of agitation.


no there isnt.

what do you mean was? he is dead and gone. i dont know any rest. he doesnt exist no more. he exists only in the book and the fake idols you guyz erect everywhere of him stuck to pieces of wood.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by tpia5: 10:30pm On Feb 11, 2013
well, if he did not exist then we wouldnt be discussing here.

end of.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by tpia5: 10:32pm On Feb 11, 2013
PAGAN 9JA:


2. There is evidence for the Northwards migration but there is no evidence whatsoever for the Southward migration. also , such a long-distance trekking wouldve left some clues but there is absolutely no evidence. in that case you can also claim that arabs migrated to the Moon. we dont know because we have no evidence.


if you believe the out of africa theory, where humans trekked hundreds of thousands of miles to populate other places, then what's so hard to believe about people migrating southwards and/or westwards from the arabian peninsula? And they werent in a hurry- there'd be many stops along the way, some would settle permanently while others would keep moving when it became necessary to do so.



3. history supports my view. there was o reason for them o come to Nigeria that too in pre-islamic times. = genetically it has been proven tha we are not descended from Arabs so what are you arguing about

nobody said we are descended from arabs.

what is being discussed is the pre-arabic or pre-islamic demographics of the ME.

and if you refuse to examine these things with an open mind, then you will never discover what factors could have encouraged a migration into western africa.


4. The "GULF of ADEN" is opposite the horn of Africa. so what? India is opposite the red sea. Afghanistan is nearby. there is Oman to the North. What does this imply? are you teaching me Geography

yes, as a matter of fact.

India is not opposite the red sea.


Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by tpia5: 10:42pm On Feb 11, 2013
NIGERIA is not opposite Aden. let me remind you that. there would be trade, though the Arabs mostly traded with the Spice nations. What Ancient maps? are you talking about Pangea, in the days of the Dinosaurs? Actually wtf is your point?!!!! angry angry angry angry

are you saying there was no trade or interaction between arabs and western africa?


the pre-islamic period?! what pre-islamic period? thy had no motivation to come to West Africa. there were no religious problems or religious motives, they had there own sedantary lifestyle. whay else would they come here??!!

what do you know about the pre-islamic period?

you seem afraid, what's the reason.



and as i said, the arabs did come to Africa during the islamic period much later. first they went to SOmalia, then Egypt and Sudan and finally to the Maghreb where they established the Fatimid caliphate. however, they did not come and settle in Nigeria, an that too Yorubaland. lol


look beyond the fatimid caliphate, i doubt that's the era in question. undecided

you only consider a northern migration, what reason do you have for assuming there was no contact between the coast of west africa and central african countries closer to the ME?
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by murtalaa(m): 1:39pm On Feb 12, 2013
justaqad:

Are you saying ALLAH understands only arabic on the day of reckoning? so if i dont understand arabic i would be mute that day abi?
back up your ambiguous claims from the quran.
mr Islam is a universal language,arabic is just a tunnel for conveying the divine message of Allah.simple.

there is no clear cut aya confirming that arabic is the language of the hereafter. but ahadith confirms it to be so. I will leave you with the response of the eminent scholar of islam when confronted with the same question. I believe it captures my response succinctly.

"It is clear from the Qur'an that people shall freely communicate in paradise, but the Qur'an has not specified the language or the method in which people shall communicate with each other. However, there is a narrative ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh) in Tabraniy's Mu`jam al-Awsat[1], according to which the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said that the language of the people of Paradise shall be Arabic. If this narrative is considered to be reliable and accurately reporting the actual saying of the Prophet (pbuh), then one a Muslim would obviously be inclined towards believing that the language spoken by the inmates of Paradise shall indeed by Arabic.

Whatever the case may be, it should be appreciated that because of our limited perspective during the life of this world, we are not in a position to fully comprehend either the exact nature of the life in the hereafter or that of the rewards and punishment of the hereafter. After fully appreciating this point, we would naturally be more concerned and involved in rendering ourselves deserving of God's mercy in the hereafter and not be too concerned about the details and the exact nature of the life or the rewards and punishments in the hereafter."- Moiz Amjad

Again if this is the only fault you find in my reasons why you should consider yourself lucky for having Arabic name, then you should give the other reasons a thought.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by justaqad(m): 4:32pm On Feb 12, 2013
murtalaa:

there is no clear cut aya confirming that arabic is the language of the hereafter. but ahadith confirms it to be so. I will leave you with the response of the eminent scholar of islam when confronted with the same question. I believe it captures my response succinctly.

"It is clear from the Qur'an that people shall freely communicate in paradise, but the Qur'an has not specified the language or the method in which people shall communicate with each other. However, there is a narrative ascribed to the Prophet (pbuh) in Tabraniy's Mu`jam al-Awsat[1], according to which the Prophet (pbuh) is reported to have said that the language of the people of Paradise shall be Arabic. If this narrative is considered to be reliable and accurately reporting the actual saying of the Prophet (pbuh), then one a Muslim would obviously be inclined towards believing that the language spoken by the inmates of Paradise shall indeed by Arabic.

Whatever the case may be, it should be appreciated that because of our limited perspective during the life of this world, we are not in a position to fully comprehend either the exact nature of the life in the hereafter or that of the rewards and punishment of the hereafter. After fully appreciating this point, we would naturally be more concerned and involved in rendering ourselves deserving of God's mercy in the hereafter and not be too concerned about the details and the exact nature of the life or the rewards and punishments in the hereafter."- Moiz Amjad

Again if this is the only fault you find in my reasons why you should consider yourself lucky for having Arabic name, then you should give the other reasons a thought.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 5:41pm On Feb 12, 2013
tpia@:
well, if he did not exist then we wouldnt be discussing here.

end of.

did i say he did not exist? i said JESUS IS DEAD! angry
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 5:51pm On Feb 12, 2013
tpia@:



if you believe the out of africa theory, where humans trekked hundreds of thousands of miles to populate other places, then what's so hard to believe about people migrating southwards and/or westwards from the arabian peninsula? And they werent in a hurry- there'd be many stops along the way, some would settle permanently while others would keep moving when it became necessary to do so.

dont assume. I have some doubt about the out of Africa theory. ya right. as if i would believe that story. we have evidence of pre-historic mammals and what they did and where they walked, etc., yet we dont have evidence of such a mass migration?! how absurd and foolish. if that is the case, then my theory the Yorubas are descended from Tibetans also holds true.



nobody said we are descended from arabs.

you said so. why the heck are you arguing then about our descent from the middle-east?

what is being discussed is the pre-arabic or pre-islamic demographics of the ME.


there is no such thing as pre-Arabic. Arabic is an Ancient language derived from Nabatean and other such roots.

as for pre-islamic. the Arab ribes existe back then. there is proof fromvarious accounts including that of the ROmans , Persians and indigenous Archaelogical finds and literary and settlement sources and DNA evidence based on unearthed Human remains from burial sites, such as those in Sharjah, UAE, Bahrain,etc.

and if you refuse to examine these things with an open mind, then you will never discover what factors could have encouraged a migration into western africa.


open mind? what open mind? there is a difference between being open to new ideas and being open to weird and nonsense talk.

yes, as a matter of fact.

India is not opposite the red sea.






im sorry on this count and i admit my mistake here. i was used to referring to the ARabian sea as the red sea, owing to he red algae found in it.

anyways my point has been made and that is what matters with regards to the close proximity of different areas, as per my previous post.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 6:11pm On Feb 12, 2013
tpia@:


are you saying there was no trade or interaction between arabs and western africa?

i doubt the existence of direct trade between the Arabs and West Africa during pre-islamic times. We traded with ROmans,etc., but i doubt this with regards to the Arabs.


what do you know about the pre-islamic period?

i know a lot. i personally had the other 2 books by Ibn Kalbi under the process of undergoing translation, apart from the Book of Idols, a translation i already obtained on pre-islamic Arabia and Arab religion.

however the way you are asking this question, is like asking me what do you know about humans? i cant waste my time on writing an entire book about that on this thread.

you seem afraid, what's the reason.

no i dont. stop assuming.


look beyond the fatimid caliphate, i doubt that's the era in question. undecided

LMAO! then you doubt historical fact! THE FATIMID ERA IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ISLAMIC ERAS! INFACT, MOST ARAB FLAGS ARE BASED ON THE FLAGS OF THIS CALIPHATE!



you only consider a northern migration, what reason do you have for assuming there was no contact between the coast of west africa and central african countries closer to the ME?

Northern migration? you are talking as if im considering a migration to the North Pole! THe Northern migration is a very short distance just across the Rub Al Khali desert and in Arab Lands of Oman and UAE and an EAstern migration to !

Whereas your theory is of a migration to Nigeria. do you understand the extent of the distance we are dealing with, not to mention a long stretch of sea in between?!!!

and also the lack of genetic similarities,

the point is that West African and Central African countries are NOT close to the middle-EAst.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by tpia5: 6:25pm On Feb 12, 2013
i dont like typing long responses or posts, but i'll attempt to answer some of your questions.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by tpia5: 6:26pm On Feb 12, 2013
PAGAN 9JA:


did i say he did not exist? i said JESUS IS DEAD! angry

WAS

else we would not be having this conversation and neither would any of us be here.

He still lives.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 6:28pm On Feb 12, 2013
tpia@:


WAS

else we would not be having this conversation and neither would any of us be here.

He still lives.

wtf?! how daft can you be! so if i talk of Alexander the Great, does that mean he is still living? angry

so no one dies in this world?

also how does my existence depend on a dead israeli//

you xtians are a waste of time. angry
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by tpia5: 6:39pm On Feb 12, 2013
why the heck are you arguing then about our descent from the middle-east?

originating from the middle east is different from descending from the middle east.




there is no such thing as pre-Arabic. Arabic is an Ancient language derived from Nabatean and other such roots.


pre arabic refers to the time before the ME peoples came together under that ethnicity/name. Before then, they identified more along tribal affiliations.


i doubt the existence of direct trade between the Arabs and West Africa during pre-islamic times. We traded with ROmans,etc., but i doubt this with regards to the Arabs.

many west african empires had interaction with the ME both directly and indirectly. eg mansa musa. Ibn batuta also travelled extensively through these places.

the eastern coast of africa has long had arab presence.


i know a lot. i personally had the other 2 books by Ibn Kalbi under the process of undergoing translation, apart from the Book of Idols, a translation i already obtained on pre-islamic Arabia and Arab religion.

well, you havent said you know anything about the demographics in question.



THE FATIMID ERA IS ONE OF THE MOST IMPORTANT ISLAMIC ERAS! INFACT, MOST ARAB FLAGS ARE BASED ON THE FLAGS OF THIS CALIPHATE!

nobody said its not important.

however, other eras are also being discussed and you can start a thread on the fatimid caliphate as necessary.



Northern migration? you are talking as if im considering a migration to the North Pole! THe Northern migration is a very short distance just across the Rub Al Khali desert and in Arab Lands of Oman and UAE and an EAstern migration to !

did omanis not migrate to central africa? Is that a northward migration?

just an example!



Whereas your theory is of a migration to Nigeria. do you understand the extent of the distance we are dealing with, not to mention a long stretch of sea in between?!!!

i've already explained the logistics behind the theory. undecided


and also the lack of genetic similarities

the discussion isnt about white arabs.





the point is that West African and Central African countries are NOT close to the middle-EAst.

are you referring to geographical location or a cultural context?
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by tpia5: 6:40pm On Feb 12, 2013
PAGAN 9JA:


wtf?! how daft can you be! so if i talk of Alexander the Great, does that mean he is still living? angry

so no one dies in this world?

also how does my existence depend on a dead israeli//

you xtians are a waste of time. angry

whatever!!!!!

and where are you seeing isreali 2000 years ago?
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 7:47pm On Feb 12, 2013
tpia@:


originating from the middle east is different from descending from the middle east.

very funny. can i ask you a question. what is your basis for a middle eastern descent of Yorubas?

i know you are a zxtian, but why do you enjoy being a slave?


pre arabic refers to the time before the ME peoples came together under that ethnicity/name. Before then, they identified more along tribal affiliations.

you have lost it. simple piece of advice, take a trip to the Hadhramut, Yemen, Asir, UAE and Oman. you will see the tribes still very much in existence today, as in the days of muhammads grandfather.

you think Arabs dont have tribes today? Gulf Arabs are extremely tribalistic when it come to naming,etc.

many west african empires had interaction with the ME both directly and indirectly. eg mansa musa. Ibn batuta also travelled extensively through these places.

stop playing tricks. i clearly mentioned and talked about the pre-islamic period. and here you are talking about Mansa Musa and Ibn Batuta of later islamic years, nearly 500 and more yrs later.


the eastern coast of africa has long had arab presence.

Obviously. what with the Omani slave trade across East Africa (Tanzania and Kenya), resulting in a steady influx of Omani slavers and Yemeni merchants. i have many friends of mixed Arab and Swahilli descent, both citizens of Kenya as well as citizens of UAE/Oman.

[/quote]


[img]well, you havent said you know anything about the demographics in question.[/img]

what demographics? i can name most tribal lineages.

[quote]nobody said its not important.

however, other eras are also being discussed and you can start a thread on the fatimid caliphate as necessary.



then you just you dont believe in it, thereby disregarding its importance!

why should i start a thread on it. my interests dont lie there. i mentioned it merely as a reply to your ignorance displayed.

did omanis not migrate to central africa? Is that a northward migration?

NO. Omanis did not migrate to Central Africa. they only migrated to the East Coast (DAr Es SAlam, Tanzania, etc.) under Sultan Majid bu Said, and this was around 200 yrs back, way later than the pre-sialmic times. this is recent, owing to superior technology and fuelled by material needs and motivation.

just an example!

i've already explained the logistics behind the theory. undecided

those logistixcs are bullsH!T.

the discussion isnt about white arabs.

there is no such a thing as a pure black arab. both white arabs ad]nd black arabs are half-bred mixes. the white arabs are those found in the Levant, in regions today of Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, West Jordan, northern Iraq,etc. these are mixed descent people between Arabs, Phonecians, Romans,Turks,etc.

today they speak Arabic.

the black Arabs are all descendants of either sudanese/somali slaves (Saudi Arabia) or Zanzibari KiSwahilli Bantu slaves (Oman / UAE). the slightly dark Arabs are due to a tan at the most.

The PURE ARABS are the light brown/ sand-coloured Qahtani Arabs. These are Tribals and have their own tribal customs, dress, dialect, names, etc.





are you referring to geographical location or a cultural context?

both. Geographical especially.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 7:48pm On Feb 12, 2013
tpia@:


whatever!!!!!

and where are you seeing isreali 2000 years ago?

israeel/palestinian, who cares. was a Jew Semite, wasnt he>?
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by ghostofsparta(m): 9:01pm On Feb 12, 2013
BetaThings:
Specific examples don't general rule make. Do you seriously believe that everyone who is prepared to tell his boss that he had a flat tire (when he overslept and got to work late) will actually steal (eg dipping hand in the till)?. I am not talking about stealing the company's time by lying about
the cause of lateness

Those statements hold true for some but not all
Thanks

That's feigning which is quite different from an outright LIE.
I can't engage you since you obviously got all my point widely wrong
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by tpia5: 1:51am On Feb 13, 2013
@ pagan

we'll have to agree to disagree, because this argument will never end?

you obviously dont want to consider any way besides your way. undecided
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by tpia5: 1:52am On Feb 13, 2013
.
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by BetaThings: 5:16am On Feb 13, 2013
PAGAN 9JA:


to see light , you must know darkness. you xtians will never understand this. .
Audhubi Llahi
I am a Muslim!!!
Amantu bi Llahi wa Rasulihi
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by PAGAN9JA(m): 3:00pm On Feb 13, 2013
tpia@:
@ pagan

we'll have to agree to disagree, because this argument will never end?

you obviously dont want to consider any way besides your way. undecided

NO! NEVER!
Re: We Are Losing Our Identity To The Arabs by Empiree: 3:25pm On Oct 04, 2015
justaqad:
Asalam Alaykum.

Islam is a religion not just to he Arabs but to the whole world,Simply by saying 'there is no god apart from God.

شَهِدَ اللّهُ أَنَّهُ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ وَالْمَلاَئِكَةُ وَأُوْلُواْ الْعِلْمِ قَآئِمَاً بِالْقِسْطِ لاَ إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ الْعَزِيزُ الْحَكِيمُ

God bears witness that there is no other god besides Him, and so do the angels and those who possess knowledge."(Verse 3:18)

there is a trend among Muslims which i find not just disturbing but wrong.muslims are submitters to the will of Allah not to the will of Arabs.
we are loosing our identity to the Arabs.the essence of naming is for Identity.when i hear the name Chidi,i know he is Igbo by tribe.but it would be difficult to tell whether Gafar that resides in Oshodi is yoruba,igbo,hausa or Arab.
i fear we are loosing our cultural heritage to the Arabs.i beg to differ there is no such thing as Islamic name.i am not saying Arabic names are bad,but we ought not loose our identity.
i grew up with an Arabic name as my first name,whenever i say my first name,people start asking are you Hausa?it will take me me some seconds to introduce my self.i have since adopted my tribal name as my first,arabic second.
i am proud of my race,i am proud to be called Yoruba.i am not loosing it,not for anything.

Masalam
I beg to disagree with you buddy. You also seem to contradict yourself as well reading your other post.

You said islam is universal. Thats simple truth. But then, you promote idea of "as-sabiyah" - tribes etc. If islam is universal, implication is anyone is free to pick islamic names he or she wants. Should we say some white folks are losing their identity by bearing islamic names as well?.

You don't know Yusuf islam? . Why didn't he retain his birth names? . How about Yusuf Este, Hamza Yusuf, Siraj wahaj, Malik Shabaz, to mention a few. These folks have their local/national birth names. You are promoting idea of nationalism and tribalism op.

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