JesusisLord85:

And so what? Read the whole chapter.

verse 13 "(For not the hearers of the law are just before God, but the doers of the law shall be justified."

Good, so he went on to say 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall [b]no flesh be justified [/b]in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

I am not arguing with you bro, please answer the question I asked you in my other post.

JesusisLord85:

He was not yet born again. He had the law alone.
So let me ask you this, if he believed in God, and went on to sin (as many christians do today), is he going to heaven because he 'believed'. You think you can ask me binary questions trying to worm your way to the wrong answer.lol

bro, that is where the problem is, you are thinking of what I am going to say next, why don't you answer and let me know when I don't say it according to the scripture.

What do you mean he was not yet born again? John the Baptist was preaching repentance for the kingdom of God. I will get to your question, lets communicate bro.

JesusisLord85:

He was not yet born again. He had the law alone.
So let me ask you this, if he believed in God, and went on to sin (as many christians do today), is he going to heaven because he 'believed'. You think you can ask me binary questions trying to worm your way to the wrong answer.lol

You are wrong here bro..even with John baptism. he still could make heaven.

shdemidemi:
Good, so he went on to say 20 Therefore by the deeds of the law there shall [b]no flesh be justified [/b]in his sight: for by the law is the knowledge of sin

23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God.

I am not arguing with you bro, please answer the question I asked you in my other post.

es that is what it says. Did it say "and therefore, nobody should observe the law"?

Bidam: can i show you biblical proofs that even without Paul God has been speaking to the gentiles?

I was not talking about speaking, He was sent specially for the salvation of the gentile nation. Please give me any other person in the scripture that told a gentile how to be saved?

JesusisLord85:

es that is what it says. Did it say "and therefore, nobody should observe the law"?

See, read chapter 1 of Romans, he spoke to the gentiles, he made them know they are sinners.
Chapter 2, he spoke to the Jews he made them know that even with the oracle of God that was in their care, they are all sinners.
The man was gradually building up his point. If you are happy with the two, we can proceed.

Bidam: You are wrong here bro..even with John baptism. he still could make heaven.

Mr bidam you don fail o. The criteria for making heaven at the time of John the Baptist is different to the one after the death of Christ.

shdemidemi:

See, read chapter 1 of Romans, he spoke to the gentiles, he made them know they are sinners.
Chapter 2, he spoke to the Jews he made them know that even with the oracle of God that was in their care, they are all sinners.
The man was gradually building up his point. If you are happy with the two, we can proceed.

You know what, tell your full story.

shdemidemi: I was not talking about speaking, He was sent specially for the salvation of the gentile nation. Please give me any other person in the scripture that told a gentile how to be saved?

Peter case readily comes to mind concerning Cornelius the centurion after the trance he had. don't also forget that Paul had an encounter and was blind for 3 days before God used ananias to regain his sight. he actually preached to the Jews not the gentiles..prove me if am wrong.

shdemidemi: Mr bidam you don fail o. The criteria for making heaven at the time of John the Baptist is different to the one after the death of Christ.

Hebrews 9:16 "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator."
Yes we know, continue. We are not children, tell us your doctrine

Bidam: Peter case readily comes to mind concerning Cornelius the centurion after the trance he had. don't also forget that Paul had an encounter and was blind for 3 days before God used ananias to regain his sight. he actually preached to the Jews not the gentiles..prove me if am wrong.

Yes Peter went to share the word of God with Cornelius and Paul went to preach the same things the disciples were preaching which was
20 And straightway he preached Christ in the synagogues, that he is the Son of God.

His message changed after he got new revelation from Christ.

shdemidemi: Mr bidam you don fail o. The criteria for making heaven at the time of John the Baptist is different to the one after the death of Christ.

that is what people keep correcting you in this forum but you wouldn't listen. If the guy never heard of Christ he will be judged by the Law. and that was why Christ placed emphasis on his timid disciples to tarry in Jerusalem during the feast of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came..no one can witness without the Holy Spirit.Jesus would not blame anyone who never heard of him if the disciples refused to preach the Gospel. remember Paul said:"who shall go except he is sent".

JesusisLord85:

Hebrews 9:16 "For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator."
Yes we know, continue. We are not children, tell us your doctrine

Does this verse not tell you a new testament started after the death of the testator which is Christ. Anyway, In Romans 3, The Jews wanted to know what advantage they have with God after Paul had convinced them that they were as guilty as the gentiles. The apostle made them understand that in this dispensation there is no partiality with God, every man is now equal under this gospel.

Bidam: that is what people keep correcting you in this forum but you wouldn't listen. If the guy never heard of Christ he will be judged by the Law. and that was why Christ placed emphasis on his timid disciples to tarry in Jerusalem during the feast of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came..no one can witness without the Holy Spirit.Jesus would not blame anyone who never heard of him if the disciples refused to preach the Gospel. remember Paul said:"who shall go except he is sent".

Well, the bible says the covenant of the law ended, I would not assume ignorance of the new criteria to be saved would not matter. On the day of Passover, If any man don't put the blood of the lamb on their doorpost, do you think ignorance of the condition would keep the spirit of death away?

Bidam: that is what people keep correcting you in this forum but you wouldn't listen. If the guy never heard of Christ he will be judged by the Law. and that was why Christ placed emphasis on his timid disciples to tarry in Jerusalem during the feast of Pentecost when the Holy Ghost came..no one can witness without the Holy Spirit.Jesus would not blame anyone who never heard of him if the disciples refused to preach the Gospel. remember Paul said:"who shall go except he is sent".

Hence Hebrews quote. But I still ask, how does this mean the law is abolished.
Go to Acts 20:21-24

@jesusislord

In chapter 4, Paul took them back to Abraham cos the Jews respect him and hold him in high esteem. He made them understand Abraham did not become righteous by what he did but by faith/belief. He explained how conforming to the law is a wage while grace is a gift. Because, If I work my way to heaven, I have every right to be proud but as it is a gift all mouth shall be silenced before God.

shdemidemi: Well, the bible says the covenant of the law ended, I would not assume ignorance of the new criteria to be saved would not matter. On the day of Passover, If any man don't put the blood of the lamb on their doorpost, do you think ignorance of the condition would keep the spirit of death away?

My point is the heathens don't even know the law. they just have their conscience to judge them.

Bidam: My point is the heathens don't even know the law. they just have their conscience to judge them.

I know you got that from Romans 2, what Paul was saying there does not mean heathens would make heaven o. He was trying to make his case clear to the Jews there. The heathens have conscience that tells them good or bad, while the Jews have the law of Moses. Anyone that is not saved is condemned.

shdemidemi: @jesusislord

In chapter 4, Paul took them back to Abraham cos the Jews respect him and hold him in high esteem. He made them understand Abraham did not become righteous by what he did but by faith/belief. He explained how conforming to the law is a wage while grace is a gift. Because, If I work my way to heaven, I have every right to be proud but as it is a gift all mouth shall be silenced before God.

Abraham was under God's instruction, and by his faith, "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

Telling a new believer "hey, all you need to do is belive" will probably lead to their destruction. You need to know the will of the father. That is why his law/instruction must be written in your heart. What is the point in that if you do not keep it.
Isaiah 66:17 and also 66:23 suggest God fully expects his laws to be observed even after Jesus ascends. or Matthew 24:20 (though some people try to argue he is talking about the gates of Jerusalem being locked on the sabbath; nonsense I say"

JesusisLord85:

Abraham was under God's instruction, and by his faith, "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness."

Telling a new believer "hey, all you need to do is belive" will probably lead to their destruction. You need to know the will of the father. That is why his law/instruction must be written in your heart. What is the point in that if you do not keep it.
Isaiah 66:17 and also 66:23 suggest God fully expects his laws to be observed even after Jesus ascends. or Matthew 24:20 (though some people try to argue he is talking about the gates of Jerusalem being locked on the sabbath; nonsense I say"

You are trying to help God do His work. The scripture says 'In the day of God's power, His people shall be willing'. The scripture also says 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. All God needs from a new convert is to believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. The power to transform that person is not in the law but in the Holy Spirit.

What do I mean by the Holy Spirit, the understanding of this word of God is so powerful if one really does divivde it rightly.

The bible say when we hold on and study this gospel of Christ, we shall be transformed not by the law but by the spirit-

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

JesusisLord85:

Abraham was under God's instruction, and by his faith, "Even as Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness.""

If you read about Abraham very well, you will notice he was not a perfect man at all. Abraham compromised at some point when he would ask his wife to lie that she is his sister, he also lied to God when he was asked if he laughed when God said he would have child with his wife at his age, he also wasn't patient cos he slept with the bond woman. Yet, he was righteous before God cos he believed God. A man will always be a man and God will always remain God.

shdemidemi:

You are trying to help God do His work. The scripture says 'In the day of God's power, His people shall be willing'. The scripture also says 16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek. All God needs from a new convert is to believe in the death, burial and resurrection of Christ. The power to transform that person is not in the law but in the Holy Spirit.

What do I mean by the Holy Spirit, the understanding of this word of God is so powerful if one really does divivde it rightly.

The bible say when we hold on and study this gospel of Christ, we shall be transformed not by the law but by the spirit-

But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

I gave scriptures to support my point. Yours support what we both already know; that we can only be justified by Christ.

So tell me, two guys in a room believe in God and have faith He can do all things. One is fornicating every week, and is married to a divorcee.

The other believes also, and he keeps God's commands. What are his commands? What is written in the old testament. After all, there was no such thing as NT when Paul/Peter taught

So which can gain salvation..By your doctrine, both will. Unfortunately, the first guy is the average guy you emet in church. Lol, and he falsely believes he is going to heaven, thanks to you

shdemidemi:

If you read about Abraham very well, you will notice he was not a perfect man at all. Abraham compromised at some point when he would ask his wife to lie that she is his sister, he also lied to God when he was asked if he laughed when God said he would have child with his wife at his age, he also wasn't patient cos he slept with the bond woman. Yet, he was righteous before God cos he believed God. A man will always be a man and God will always remain God.

Do not patronise me. If you read Moses carefully you will also see everyone in his time transgressed at one point or another. Some were killed in the wilderness, the condemnation of the law. Moses is not without sin, but he going to heaven too.

JesusisLord85:

Do not patronise me. If you read Moses carefully you will also see everyone in his time transgressed at one point or another. Some were killed in the wilderness, the condemnation of the law. Moses is not without sin, but he going to heaven too.

I never said Moses would not go to heaven, he can't be judged by the gospel of Christ cos this gospel was not thr criteria for salvation at his time.
God gave the Jews a way of atoning for their sins yearly which was enough to cover them until the next year. Christ has now died for the sins of the world once and for all, all we need do is to believe.

shdemidemi:

I never said Moses would not go to heaven, he can't be judged by the gospel of Christ cos this gospel was not thr criteria for salvation at his time.
God gave the Jews a way of atoning for their sins yearly which was enough to cover them until the next year. Christ has now died for the sins of the world once and for all, all we need do is to believe.

They were able to atone for their sins. But sin existed, it was trasgression of the law. I believe that statement is true for new testament too. According to you, there is no such thing as sin. You're dead to sin remember. So when you see your son stealing, do not correct him. You are dead to sin abi?
Or dead to the condemnation?

shdemidemi:

I know you got that from Romans 2, what Paul was saying there does not mean heathens would make heaven o. He was trying to make his case clear to the Jews there. The heathens have conscience that tells them good or bad, while the Jews have the law of Moses. Anyone that is not saved is condemned.

how can they be condemned when they never even heard of Christ? haba shdemidemi..are you trying to say God is wicked? ok where are these people now? in heaven or hell?

JesusisLord85:

They were able to atone for their sins. But sin existed, it was trasgression of the law. I believe that statement is true for new testament too. According to you, there is no such thing as sin. You're dead to sin remember. So when you see your son stealing, do not correct him. You are dead to sin abi?
Or dead to the condemnation?

Put it this way, a child has not reached the age of accountability, you can always base correction based on your conscience. You don't have to necessarily pick the torah to teach your child morals, every one has a conscience to know what is good and what is bad.

Cane did not have the law of Moses but he knew what he had done to Abel was wrong based on his conscience.

Bidam: how can they be condemned when they never even heard of Christ? haba shdemidemi..are you trying to say God is wicked? ok where are these people now? in heaven or hell?

God is not bad, Adam brought this on mankind. We are all sinners until we are made righteous by God. No sinner would share God's glory. That is not to say you and I are perfect but we are wrapped up and inundated into the righteousness of Christ through grace by faith.

shdemidemi:

Put it this way, a child has not reached the age of accountability, you can always base correction based on your conscience. You don't have to necessarily pick the torah to teach your child morals, every one has a conscience to know what is good and what is bad.

Cane did not have the law of Moses but he knew what he had done to Abel was wrong based on his conscience.

Lol. Oh really? So you now entered Cain's head. God told Noah to seperate clean and unclean. Do you think God just decided in his wonderful mind, that day, what was unclean and what was clean?

There is no mention as to whether Noah knew what God meant. I'm guessing he did, otherwise he would hve been there all day.

JesusisLord85:

Lol. Oh really? So you now entered Cain's head. God told Noah to seperate clean and unclean. Do you think God just decided in his wonderful mind, that day, what was unclean and what was clean?

There is no mention as to whether Noah knew what God meant. I'm guessing he did, otherwise he would hve been there all day.

Read the story properly, the issue here is that the law of Moses was not in existence at this point in time. When you hear commandment and law, it does not necessarily mean the mosaic law. The law God annulled was the Mosaic law.

shdemidemi:

Read the story properly, the issue here is that the law of Moses was not in existence at this point in time. When you hear commandment and law, it does not necessarily mean the mosaic law. The law God annulled was the Mosaic law.

matthew 5:17 " Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

If you like you can continue in false doctrine. God is the same yesterday, today and forver. If he called it abomination yesterday, he called it that today. God will not take a spotted bride, the word can guarantee that.
Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

What is the will of the father...To simply believe? I think not!!

JesusisLord85:

matthew 5:17 " Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil."

Matthew 5:18 "For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled."

If you like you can continue in false doctrine. God is the same yesterday, today and forver. If he called it abomination yesterday, he called it that today. God will not take a spotted bride, the word can guarantee that.
Matthew 7:21 "Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven."

What is the will of the father...To simply believe? I think not!!

" be ye doers of the word and not hearers only deceiving yourselves" clear words from James.