For the records and for the help of new and honest folks,

debosky: I haven't had time to go through the thread in detail since where I last dropped off, but I will comment on the 'Jesus endorsed tithes' issue.

The straight, simple and embarrassing issue is that Jesus endorsed tithes. That's the basic claim. the stress about who is He addressing or what type of tithe is peripheral and pulled out of empty space as it were. So, YES, Jesus endorsed tithes. He never spoke against it or saw how dangerous it is, or commissioned his disciples to fight against thisevil doctrine from the pit of hell and whatever other adjective antitithers deem fit.

Jesus was talking to Pharisees regarding the law of Moses, or if you prefer, law-based tithing - that is the context under which tithing of Dill and Cumin could occur. I ask those who use it as 'evidence' of endorsement - do you tithe dill and cumin/agricultural produce? Do you tithe to the Levitical Priesthood in Jerusalem?

Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Most Bible students know that Jesus was not giving a lecture on the types of tithe here but was among other things denouncing the HYPOCRISY of the scribes in obeying the peripheral of the law(tithe) to the detail while ignoring the core of the law. The mention of mint and anise is to show the detail to which they gave tithe, its not an hint that those were the only things they gave tithe of. It's like saying that they dotted every 'i' and crossed every 't' on tithes while they ignored the main thing in the law. If my income today was in dill and cummin, i'd tithe in dill and cummin. Not everyone in the OT tithed dill and cummin. Why should i tithe to the Levi preisthood when there is an higher priesthood of the Order of Melchisedek. The issue is that the tithe(whatever currency) is to God, or as to God, through His temple the church.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

As for Mercy and Faith, thank Jesus that we do not rely solely on Matt 23:23 for evidence! Jesus taught extensively about these subjects elsewhere, so it is not in doubt that Christians should also display Mercy and Faith.

Simply because Mercy, faith and Judgement are chief issues, big deals to talk about. Its antitithers that i find that make a big issue of tithes. To them, it is a calling, a ministry, a matter of salvation and of one's eternal destiny. they are trying to save us all the time. they are the ones that find it necessary to open a thread on tithes on a weekly or monthly basis. i've listened to adeboye, akanni, kumuyi, oyedepo severally, even oyakhilome. They hardly talk about tithes, and none of these lovely men speak against it. i don't remember the last time i talked about tithes to anyone outside this forum. It's not a big deal, there are weightier matters to discuss, preach about and engage in. The OT rarely spoke about tithes especially when you consider the volume. Moses had nothing to say about tithes until few verses at the end of Leviticus. It was like common sense. Like nobody harps about having your bath, looking the road carefully before you cross, or washing your clothes. Mercy and Faith are the core of the law, and if the law is truly gone, its reason that the core be gone too.

I also give thanks that Jesus taught extensively about giving - it speaks volumes that nowhere else did Jesus mention tithes, not to talk of teaching it to his apostles.

Tithing is a type of giving, you GIVE tithes.
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.

Tithing is as common sense as tax, if not more common sense. Real and responsible people are not continually cajoled, enticed, and pampered to do them.

The context of not leaving some undone goes right to the heart of what the law requires - 100% compliance. If you miss out an element, you have failed. That was the emphasis of Jesus' comment - you cannot selectively choose what aspects you comply with.

The 'joke' is on the antitither. It is antitithers that want to hypocritically keep faith and mercy and drop tithes. That is not 100%. The tither wants to tithe, have mercy, faith, judgement etc. We want to honour our father and mother, we want to love God and our neighbour. This is all the law. WE DO NOT DO ANY OF THIS TO BE JUSTIFIED.

Finally, if you want to hold on to the idea that Jesus 'endorsed' tithes, it is only logical to tithe in the 'endorsed' fashion:

Who gave you this endorsed fashion?

- ensure it is agricultural produce (e.g. Dill and Cumin)

Says who? There is no part of the Bible that specifically states that tithe MUST be agricultural produce. We see scriptures where tithes were given of other things and accepted.

- ensure you are a Jew - not metaphorical or Spiritual like some like to paint it, but a biological descendant of Jacob/Israel

And where is this requirement stated in the Bible? Are you adding to God's Word?

- ensure you give your tithe to the Levitical Priesthood serving in the temple

Not compulsory. Tithes belong to God.
Heb 7:6 But he whose descent is not counted from them received tithes of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

- ensure you comply with the regulations for tithing spelled out in Leviticus

What regulations are those?

What you CANNOT do is redefine tithe to mean something completely different from what Jesus talked about and then say Jesus 'endorsed' tithes.

Jesus never defined tithes. Tithes is simply a tenth, and that's common knowledge. you don't need to use a concordance or study greek or Hebrew to figure that out. It is matter of factly stated in Genesis. There is no window dressing. It just simply stated that Abraham gave it and also that Jacob wanted to. When Moses wrote these parts, there was no demarcation of definitions. Everyone knew what he meant. It's phds and different versions that is disturbing many people today.

Finally, as for the matter of 'support of ministers' - I thank Jesus that ministers were supported in the early church as recorded in the NT, without anyone teaching tithing.

How were they supported? Is that the way you have been supporting your church ministers or is just mouth? Do you have all things in common in your church? Are you people selling all your property and laying them at anyone's feet? Are you people receiving from churches around you and in other states? Again, how exactly were they supported?

Paul's reference was very clear - what he endorsed is getting support from the ministry NOT tithes. It is very clear from Corinthians:

In the same way, the Lord ordered that those who preach the Good News should be supported by those who benefit from it.

The principle is supporting ministers and nothing more.

Is tithe not a form of support? What's with this word jangle and semantics?

This is getting sadder every day.

There is only ONE tithe that God said belong to Him. God defined His tithe in Leviticus 27:30-33. Then he gave His ordinances for this tithe in Numbers 18.

Did God endorse Abram's tithe of war spoils? If He did, He CHANGED it under the law in Numbers 31, where He did NOT want a tithe from the spoils.

Abram "gave" a tenth BEFORE God gave His definition of His tithe. God NEVER commanded anyone "give" or "pay" a tenth to Him. He owned a tenth of the crops and animals, and instructed the Israelites to TAKE His tithe to the Levites.

Only TWO classes of people were involved in the Lord's tithe:

1 - The Children of Israel who INHERITED THE LAND were to take the tithe to the Levites.
2 - The Children of Israel who did NOT inherited the land, the Levites, were to receive the tithe.
3 - The gentiles were not involved.

My how the tithe lie just goes on and on by those who seem to have no clue as to how it worked in the Old Testament.

Image123:
The straight, simple and embarrassing issue is that Jesus endorsed tithes. That's the basic claim. the stress about who is He addressing or what type of tithe is peripheral and pulled out of empty space as it were.

It isn't peripheral at all, if not we could easily get into misinterpretation of scripture. Jesus was referring to complete adherence with the law, not tithing alone which is why he mentioned the other aspects of the law.

So, YES, Jesus endorsed tithes. He never spoke against it or saw how dangerous it is, or commissioned his disciples to fight against thisevil doctrine from the pit of hell and whatever other adjective antitithers deem fit.

Jesus endorsed Levitical tithing as instructed by Moses. He didn't 'speak against' it because he didn't 'speak against' the law, but came to fulfill it.

Most Bible students know that Jesus was not giving a lecture on the types of tithe here but was among other things denouncing the HYPOCRISY of the scribes in obeying the peripheral of the law(tithe) to the detail while ignoring the core of the law. The mention of mint and anise is to show the detail to which they gave tithe, its not an hint that those were the only things they gave tithe of.

I agree in principle. As for the last line, if it is not to show the detail, we know where the detail lies - in Leviticus, and that does not include tithing of monetary income, except as a replacement for agricultural produce for easy transportation.

Why should i tithe to the Levi preisthood when there is an higher priesthood of the Order of Melchisedek. The issue is that the tithe(whatever currency) is to God, or as to God, through His temple the church.

If you want to tithe to the 'higher priesthood', tithe as Abram did/was recorded. A tithe of the spoils of war, not of his monthly salary. Besides, the church is comprised of individuals, therefore every individual is entitled to receive tithes no? I await my tithes from you brother.

Simply because Mercy, faith and Judgement are chief issues, big deals to talk about. Its antitithers that i find that make a big issue of tithes.

I disagree - some tithers call it a 'principle' comparable to praying. If you compare it to praying, aren't you making it a 'big issue'?

there are weightier matters to discuss, preach about and engage in.

This I agree with - however, even if a 'minor' issue is being distorted, I consider it necessary to point out the distortion. Being minor is not enough of a reason to let distortions go unchallenged.

Mercy and Faith are the core of the law, and if the law is truly gone, its reason that the core be gone too.

That is unreasonable. Mercy and Faith are principles - tithe is a practice. Therefore, the former cannot be 'gone' because the law is 'gone'.

Tithing is a type of giving, you GIVE tithes.

Again, answer the point I raised - Jesus did not teach his disciples to tithe. If he did, kindly point it out.

Tithing is as common sense as tax, if not more common sense. Real and responsible people are not continually cajoled, enticed, and pampered to do them.

Comparing tithing and tax shows the deep flaws in your thinking. Taxes are mandatory, not by choice and enforced. This is completely at odds with what we are taught about God loving those who give without compulsion. You are compelled to pay taxes but should not be compelled to tithe - it should be a personal choice.

The 'joke' is on the antitither. It is antitithers that want to hypocritically keep faith and mercy and drop tithes. That is not 100%. The tither wants to tithe, have mercy, faith, judgement etc. We want to honour our father and mother, we want to love God and our neighbour. This is all the law. WE DO NOT DO ANY OF THIS TO BE JUSTIFIED.

There is no joke on me, (if I meet your definition of antitither that is ) - if you want to achieve 100% compliance with the law, then you must comply with the entire Levitical law. That is the point I was making. Thank goodness this isn't a requirement for me as a Christian. If you want to achieve 100% compliance with the law,including not wearing clothes with two different fabrics, good luck.

Who gave you this endorsed fashion?

That is the practice that Jesus endorsed. Since you want to base tithing on this passage, we have to comply with what is written no?

Says who? There is no part of the Bible that specifically states that tithe MUST be agricultural produce. We see scriptures where tithes were given of other things and accepted.

The tithing Jesus endorsed was Levitical tithing, which is defined ONLY as agricultural produce.

And where is this requirement stated in the Bible? Are you adding to God's Word?

In Leviticus 27:30

Not compulsory. Tithes belong to God.

Tithes of what? Lev 27:30: "'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.

That is what belongs to God.

What regulations are those?

Lev 27:30-33

Jesus never defined tithes. Tithes is simply a tenth, and that's common knowledge.

It is not simply a tenth - the tithes that the Pharisees carried out that Jesus endorsed are strictly defined in Leviticus. No amount of twisting and turning that can get away from this. The practice of the Pharisees was based on Leviticus.

Moses wrote these parts, there was no demarcation of definitions. Everyone knew what he meant. It's phds and different versions that is disturbing many people today.

But there was - Leviticus 27:30-32 30‘Thus all the tithe of the land, of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S; it is holy to the LORD.31‘If, therefore, a man wishes to redeem part of his tithe, he shall add to it one-fifth of it.32‘For every tenth part of herd or flock, whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the LORD.

The tithe of - that's the key, specificity of the tithe is clearly stated by Moses.

How were they supported? Is that the way you have been supporting your church ministers or is just mouth?

By giving as inspired by the Lord, as each decides in his own heart, not out of compulsion. 2 Cor 9:7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Do you have all things in common in your church?

Some things in common yes - there is no requirement to have all things in common.

Are you people selling all your property and laying them at anyone's feet?

Individuals are free to do so if they choose, but there is no requirement to. We give as inspired by God and lay them at the leaders' feet for distribution or to meet identified needs.

Are you people receiving from churches around you and in other states?

No receipts from churches, but we do contribute and support missionaries elsewhere.

Again, how exactly were they supported?

As stated above - from the giving of members, of varying percentages as decided by the individuals.

Is tithe not a form of support? What's with this word jangle and semantics?

A form of support, but not the principle of support. As for the 'word jangle' and 'semantics' ask your friends like Bidam and Joe Agbaje. They are the ones that call tithing a 'spiritual principle'.

Bidam: Ever learning but never able to come to the knowledge of Christ..sinec you are dull in understanding..lemme also ask you a queshion...how many churches partnered with Paul? Dnt forget paul planted many churches in his journeys..and his focus was basically the gentiles..Most times he is always in the synagogues pleading and arguing both with jews and babarians alike..do you think he has time making tents? Infact i make bold to say that he never wanted to be a burden that was why he resorted to tent making NOt that it wasn't his right to eat off the gospel.

Some call me fool when i open their yansh. This one is calling me dull brain when he can't show me a simple thing he said, that Paul and those giving to him went BROKE.

If i ask you again, whether Paul knew that his church was BROKE and he continued pleading and argue with them? The spirit in you will tell you to call me another name.

Stop twisting the word of God or what is written. If you make a mistake, humbly accept it for the sake of those that want to learn.

To the tithers:

If tithe merely means a tenth and nothing else, then if I go to church with ten pennies in my pocket, and I give one penny, would you agree that I am a tither? Can I give a tenth of whatever I please and satisfy your definition of tithing?

Which of the three tithes was Jesus referring to in Matthew 23:23? This is very important to know. If it was all three tithes, they why don't you also honor all three tithes? Jesus said the scribes and Pharisees PAY tithe (KJV). The Leviticus tithe wasn't paid. It was taken. The second tithe, or festival tithe, was taken and eaten. Only the third tithe, the 3-year tithe, which went to the poor and was kept within the cities, could be considered paid. So it wasn't the tithe that supported the priesthood that Jesus was referring to unless He was referring to ALL THREE tithes. If I am wrong, please show me which tithe(s) Jesus was referring to, and back it up with scripture. If you can't back it up, then you don't know. And if you don't know, then you can't use Matthew 23:23 to say that Jesus confirmed the tithe to the priesthood.

garyarnold: To the tithers:

If tithe merely means a tenth and nothing else, then if I go to church with ten pennies in my pocket, and I give one penny, would you agree that I am a tither? Can I give a tenth of whatever I please and satisfy your definition of tithing?

Which of the three tithes was Jesus referring to in Matthew 23:23? This is very important to know. If it was all three tithes, they why don't you also honor all three tithes? Jesus said the scribes and Pharisees PAY tithe (KJV). The Leviticus tithe wasn't paid. It was taken. The second tithe, or festival tithe, was taken and eaten. Only the third tithe, the 3-year tithe, which went to the poor and was kept within the cities, could be considered paid. So it wasn't the tithe that supported the priesthood that Jesus was referring to unless He was referring to ALL THREE tithes. If I am wrong, please show me which tithe(s) Jesus was referring to, and back it up with scripture. If you can't back it up, then you don't know. And if you don't know, then you can't use Matthew 23:23 to say that Jesus confirmed the tithe to the priesthood.

Tithers don't tithe because they believe jesus endorsed tithe (@mathew 23:23), they tithe because they want to be rich, problem free or because they are afraid of the devourer (@malachi 3:10). even if jesus was silent on tithe, the pastor is still going to get that 10%.

Boomark: Some call me fool when i open their yansh. This one is calling me dull brain when he can't show me a simple thing he said, that Paul and those giving to him went BROKE.

I never called you a dull brain you did.
Paul cited the example of the Macedonian churches, who had given generously, even to the point of self-sacrifice ( 2 cor 8:1-5). The example is powerful; the implications are strong that the Corinthians needed to respond to Paul’s sacrifices by making sacrifices themselves.

If i ask you again, whether Paul knew that his church was BROKE and he continued pleading and argue with them? The spirit in you will tell you to call me another name.

you misconstrue my post here..learn to understand me..I said PAUL mission and purpose was to convert the gentile nation and it requires him traveling alot..where was the money coming from..is it his tent making or did he trek to those places where he argued with them on foot?

Acts 9:20 At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God.


Acts 13:14 From Perga they went on to Pisidian Antioch. On the Sabbath they entered the synagogue and sat down.

Acts 14:1 At Iconium Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue. There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Greeks believed.

Acts 18:19 They arrived at Ephesus, where Paul left Priscilla and Aquila. He himself went into the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews.

Stop twisting the word of God or what is written. If you make a mistake, humbly accept it for the sake of those that want to learn.

I never did..you are the one acting as if Christ liberates us from the law so that we can keep more physical blessings for ourselves. That is false — Christ liberates us so that we can be free to serve him more, as loving children and not merely as slaves. He frees us so we can have faith instead of selfishness.

debosky:

It isn't peripheral at all, if not we could easily get into misinterpretation of scripture. Jesus was referring to complete adherence with the law, not tithing alone which is why he mentioned the other aspects of the law

i maintain that who is He addressing or what type of tithe is peripheral. If Jesus is addressing any man, all men should take note. There is so much 'çutting corners' ongoing in religion today in the name of Jesus was talking to this, Paul was writing to that, the book was address to those. The scripture still remains
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.
And whatsoever things were written aforetime. Let God be true and every man a liar. Such subtle cutting methods were not employed in the Bible.
1Co 9:10a Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written:
The verse in question in this last passage is even from the newly dreaded law of Moses, not to mention the words of Jesus whose word will never pass away.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Just the next chapter after Matthew 23.
And there is nothing wrong with complete adherence with the law if that's even possible. We are 'supposed' to have the mind of Christ, who never condemned the law. The only wrong thing is IF we take obedience to the law as a means to justification or salvation.

Jesus endorsed Levitical tithing as instructed by Moses. He didn't 'speak against' it because he didn't 'speak against' the law, but came to fulfill it.

What is this Levitical tithing you're on about? Can you show us this coined phrase from the Bible sef? Jesus endorsed tithing, simple. There is no such demarcation or understanding(as presented by you, gari and co) in the Bible.
Act 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the Scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
Also, Jesus didn't come to pay/give your tithes. Jesus fulfilling the law doesn't mean that we stop exercising faith, mercy, judgement or tithes.

I agree in principle. As for the last line, if it is not to show the detail, we know where the detail lies - in Leviticus, and that does not include tithing of monetary income, except as a replacement for agricultural produce for easy transportation.

Which one is agreement "in principle" again, all this law court practices sha. 'Detail' in my post refers to EXTENT or magnitude. i.e The mention of mint and anise is to show the EXTENT/MAGNITUDE to which they gave tithe, its not an hint that those were the only things they gave tithe of.
As to where details lie, the details of tithes lie in scriptures. One scripture is not to be held to ransom or isolation. Scriptures interpret and complement one another. Holding one sided views and demarcations is what muslins and atheists do to satisfy themselves that scripture is untrue or contradicts. All the verses on tithes are the FULL revelation on tithes, not just one or two verses that suit our perceptions and websites/blogs.

If you want to tithe to the 'higher priesthood', tithe as Abram did/was recorded. A tithe of the spoils of war, not of his monthly salary. Besides, the church is comprised of individuals, therefore every individual is entitled to receive tithes no? I await my tithes from you brother.

Oh, so Abraham's tithe is voluntary according to you, but mine must be Abraham style? Do you read yourself?
The tithe(whatever currency) is to God, or as to God, through His temple the church. Not everybody holds the same function in the body. This is rudimentary bible class.

I disagree - some tithers call it a 'principle' comparable to praying. If you compare it to praying, aren't you making it a 'big issue'?

It depends on the context to which they compared it to praying. Jesus compared humans to lilies, context is important.

This I agree with - however, even if a 'minor' issue is being distorted, I consider it necessary to point out the distortion. Being minor is not enough of a reason to let distortions go unchallenged.

good.

That is unreasonable. Mercy and Faith are principles - tithe is a practice. Therefore, the former cannot be 'gone' because the law is 'gone'.

hahaha, who is deceiving who?

Again, answer the point I raised - Jesus did not teach his disciples to tithe. If he did, kindly point it out.

Jesus NEVER taught His disciples NOT to tithe, If he did, kindly point it out. i already pointed out Matthew 23.
Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Even if you challenge that, honourably point out your own as i requested, thanks.

Comparing tithing and tax shows the deep flaws in your thinking. Taxes are mandatory, not by choice and enforced. This is completely at odds with what we are taught about God loving those who give without compulsion. You are compelled to pay taxes but should not be compelled to tithe - it should be a personal choice

Again, you have decided to alter my comparison out of context. Tithing is as common sense as tax, if not more common sense. Real and responsible people are not continually cajoled, enticed, and pampered to do them.

When they say A is as --- as B, it doesn't mean that they are exactly the same thing. It is the --- quality in A and B that is been highlighted. You used to be better at grammar than this.

There is no joke on me, (if I meet your definition of antitither that is ) - if you want to achieve 100% compliance with the law, then you must comply with the entire Levitical law. That is the point I was making. Thank goodness this isn't a requirement for me as a Christian. If you want to achieve 100% compliance with the law,including not wearing clothes with two different fabrics, good luck.

WE DO NOT DO ANY OF THIS TO BE JUSTIFIED. If you can understand that, there will be nothing left for me to say on this.

That is the practice that Jesus endorsed. Since you want to base tithing on this passage, we have to comply with what is written no?

Where is it written. Anyway, i've already talked on this earlier in this same post.

The tithing Jesus endorsed was Levitical tithing, which is defined ONLY as agricultural produce.

The tithes the levites received was not only agricultural produce but MAINLY agricultural produce. We've talked on this before,
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
And there is no where it is stated in scriptures that Jesus endorsed one kind of tithing and didn't endorse one kind.

In Leviticus 27:30

Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
ensure you are a Jew - not metaphorical or Spiritual like some like to paint it, but a biological descendant of Jacob/Israel

Hmmm, may it be well. You are saying that the verse in RED is stating the words in GREEN above?

Tithes of what? Lev 27:30: "'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.

That is what belongs to God.

Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
is not the same as And ONLY all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.

Mal 3:8 Will a man rob God? Yet ye have robbed me. But ye say, Wherein have we robbed thee? In tithes and offerings.

Lev 27:30-33

No where in the Bible is it stated that that passage is the only and final, the first and the last on tithes. The passage is simply reminding/telling us that tithes belong to God, not just to men(our brethren the Levites) as some of them may have been tempted to think. This reminder enhances the solemnity and seriousness they were to engage. They were not expected to treat it with levity.

It is not simply a tenth - the tithes that the Pharisees carried out that Jesus endorsed are strictly defined in Leviticus. No amount of twisting and turning that can get away from this. The practice of the Pharisees was based on Leviticus.

Tithe is simply/basically a tenth. The two words are used interchangeably because they basically mean the same thing.

But there was - Leviticus 27:30-32 30‘Thus all the tithe of the land, of the seed of the land or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD’S; it is holy to the LORD.31‘If, therefore, a man wishes to redeem part of his tithe, he shall add to it one-fifth of it.32‘For every tenth part of herd or flock, whatever passes under the rod, the tenth one shall be holy to the LORD.

The tithe of - that's the key, specificity of the tithe is clearly stated by Moses.

And the tithe OF any other thing given to the minister belongs to who?

By giving as inspired by the Lord, as each decides in his own heart, not out of compulsion. 2 Cor 9:7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

You may not have read
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
Remember that as God hath is proportional and has been discussed before.

Some things in common yes - there is no requirement to have all things in common.

Indeed, you and your folks have been requiring that we give as is seen in the Acts to Revelations part of the Bible.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Don't lemme start on the rest of the passages, it could be pretty embarrassing.

Individuals are free to do so if they choose, but there is no requirement to. We give as inspired by God and lay them at the leaders' feet for distribution or to meet identified needs.



No receipts from churches, but we do contribute and support missionaries elsewhere.

As stated above - from the giving of members, of varying percentages as decided by the individuals.

i also do this, i'm with you

A form of support, but not the principle of support. As for the 'word jangle' and 'semantics' ask your friends like Bidam and Joe Agbaje. They are the ones that call tithing a 'spiritual principle'.

i said a form of support. What is a spiritual principle?

@image123 - Have you read nothing that has been written, or is it that you just don't understand what has been written?

You say tithe means a tenth - any tenth. Says you, NOT God. God didn't claim a tenth of fish to be a Holy tithe. God didn't claim a tenth of the land to be His. God was specific, and you take that and generalize it. God said DON'T ADD TO HIS WORD. You add and add and add and add and don't even know it.

What does Leviticus 27:34 say? FOR THE CHILDREN OF ISRAEL. Not for the children of the world. Not for the born-again believer.

You criticize using "Levitical tithe" because that term is not in the scriptures. Yet the term "Levitical tithe" is used to distinguish it from the tithes in Deut. 14:22-29. Simple as that.

You won't find even ONE instance in the scriptures where the tithe came from anyone's income. Not even one. The tithe always came from assets, not income.

You obviously, like so many here, have absolutely NO clue, NONE whatsoever, as to what the tithe was, or how tithing worked in the Old Testament. You are catering to a man-made tithing doctrine invented by church leaders in 1870. The history of tithing in the Christian Church proves that, but either you don't care to check it out, or you are just too lazy to check it out, or you just don't want to admit you have been wrong all this time.

I suggest you do some real study on the matter rather than keep pushing your money-hungry agenda.

garyarnold:

You won't find even ONE instance in the scriptures where the tithe came from anyone's income. Not even one. The tithe always came from assets, not income.

Even if Christ should ask us to sell everything and contribute the proceeds to the poor, the true disciple would be willing to do so (Matt. 19:21-22).

Bidam: Even if Christ should ask us to sell everything and contribute the proceeds to the poor, the true disciple would be willing to do so (Matt. 19:21-22).

Abeg make I hear word! Where are you going to find the true disciple that will sell everything? I know you won't find one in Nigeria. You people should stop deceiving yourselves.

^ Bros, abeg leaf Bidam alone o. Pepper abi Onions must rest na

garyarnold: @image123 - Have you read nothing that has been written, or is it that you just don't understand what has been written?

Image123 knows the truth, but accepting such truth would amount to suicide for him. He has reached the point of no return. Going back on tithing have psychological implication. He just have to keep believing he is doing the right thing. Image123 never saw Mathew 23:23 before he started tithing (same for most tithers), he is posting it here just to justify his actions.

Bidam: I never called you a dull brain you did.
Paul cited the example of the Macedonian churches, who had given generously, even to the point of self-sacrifice ( 2 cor 8:1-5). The example is powerful; the implications are strong that the Corinthians needed to respond to Paul’s sacrifices by making sacrifices themselves.

you misconstrue my post here..learn to understand me..I said PAUL mission and purpose was to convert the gentile nation and it requires him traveling alot..where was the money coming from..is it his tent making or did he trek to those places where he argued with them on foot?

Acts 9:20 At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God.


Acts 13:14 From Perga they went on to Pisidian Antioch. On the Sabbath they entered the synagogue and sat down.

Acts 14:1 At Iconium Paul and Barnabas went as usual into the Jewish synagogue. There they spoke so effectively that a great number of Jews and Greeks believed.

Acts 18:19 They arrived at Ephesus, where Paul left Priscilla and Aquila. He himself went into the synagogue and reasoned with the Jews.

I never did..you are the one acting as if Christ liberates us from the law so that we can keep more physical blessings for ourselves. That is false — Christ liberates us so that we can be free to serve him more, as loving children and not merely as slaves. He frees us so we can have faith instead of selfishness.

2 Corinthians 8:1-5
New International Version (NIV)
8 And now, brothers and sisters, we
want you to know about the grace
that God has given the Macedonian
churches. 2 In the midst of a very
severe trial, their overflowing joy
and their extreme poverty welled
up in rich generosity. 3 [b]For I testify
that they gave as much as they
were able, and even beyond their
ability. Entirely on their own,[/b]4 they
urgently pleaded with us for the
privilege of sharing in this service
to the Lord’s people. 5 And they
exceeded our expectations: They
gave themselves first of all to the
Lord, and then by the will of God
also to us.

The truth will always prevail. These people gave entirely on their own. This is what you and all pastors should teach Christians.

That Paul needed money did not make him to go about telling people that they must pay their tithe. He taught them the importance of giving and the gave sacrificially on the own. Read Hebrew 13:16 and see that this is the kind of giving that pleases God.

Non where taxed or compelled to pay as a MUST a certain percentage of money.

As is the usual and as i expected, they could not/refused to reply my post. It was too hot for them to handle perhaps. All they can come up with is some trite remark. Very soon, some other fellow will come and ask the same questions and be looking for who will answer him else he commits suicide. And the merry-go-round continues. i thank God that God is not man. We don't need phds and understanding of accounting terminologies before we can understand Him. We don't need useless clues and dead histories that give no life. We would rather be sheep and allow to be defrauded by our fellow brethren, thanks for your bogus concerns. i wait for debo BTW, he still manages to discuss.

Image123: We would rather be sheep and allow to be defrauded by our fellow brethren

Exactly what you are doing. The Spirit has shown me the fraud. I'm am no longer being led by the blind.

Image123: As is the usual and as i expected, they could not/refused to reply my post. It was too hot for them to handle perhaps. All they can come up with is some trite remark. Very soon, some other fellow will come and ask the same questions and be looking for who will answer him else he commits suicide. And the merry-go-round continues. i thank God that God is not man. We don't need phds and understanding of accounting terminologies before we can understand Him. We don't need useless clues and dead histories that give no life. We would rather be sheep and allow to be defrauded by our fellow brethren, thanks for your bogus concerns. i wait for debo BTW, he still manages to discuss.

It's your choice to hold onto a LIE with all it's ramifications , just make sure you do not spread or teach this POISON to young unsuspecting believers.

garyarnold:

Exactly what you are doing. The Spirit has shown me the fraud. I'm am no longer being led by the blind.

Exactly what the Bible says christians like me should do IF such a case arises. Go and read your Bible instead of all these links and videos on antitithing.

Image123:
Exactly what the Bible says christians like me should do IF such a case arises. Go and read your Bible instead of all these links and videos on antitithing.

Would you stop lying you are yet to show us a single passage in scripture which instructs or even suggests christians should tithe.

Pastor Kun:

Would you stop lying you are yet to show us a single passage in scripture which instructs or even suggests christians should tithe.

stop posting as if your NL account will expire if you don't post, please.

Image123:
i maintain that who is He addressing or what type of tithe is peripheral.

How can it be peripheral? If the type of tithe has now gone away with the Levitical priesthood, then the endorsement bears no relevance to whatever is being practiced today.

If Jesus is addressing any man, all men should take note. There is so much 'çutting corners' ongoing in religion today in the name of Jesus was talking to this, Paul was writing to that, the book was address to those. The scripture still remains
2Ti 3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:
2Ti 3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.

I cannot now insist I need to carry out physical circumcision simply because 'the scripture remains', neither can I insist on carrying my tithe to Jerusalem because 'the scripture remains'. No one has done away with scripture here.

1Co 9:10a Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written:
The verse in question in this last passage is even from the newly dreaded law of Moses, not to mention the words of Jesus whose word will never pass away.
Mat 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
Just the next chapter after Matthew 23.

Who said the word has passed away? The fact is that Jesus endorsed Levitical tithing by Pharisees to the Leivitical Priesthood - how is a recognition of that fact equivalent to scripture passing away?

And there is nothing wrong with complete adherence with the law if that's even possible. We are 'supposed' to have the mind of Christ, who never condemned the law. The only wrong thing is IF we take obedience to the law as a means to justification or salvation.

There's nothing wrong with it I agree - however, if you are not tithing according to the Law's requirements, how can you claim to be even adhering to the law?

What is this Levitical tithing you're on about? Can you show us this coined phrase from the Bible sef? Jesus endorsed tithing, simple. There is no such demarcation or understanding(as presented by you, gari and co) in the Bible.

Ok so English is now your problem? Go and read Leviticus 27:30 - for your sake I will call it tithing as described in Leviticus instead. Deal? Jesus did not endorse 'tithing' simple - he endorsed tithing of dill and cumin. Tithing of dill and cumin is according to the instructions in Leviticus. Simple.

Also, Jesus didn't come to pay/give your tithes. Jesus fulfilling the law doesn't mean that we stop exercising faith, mercy, judgement or tithes.

You CANNOT exercise tithes as defined under the law, except to the Levitical Priesthood. If you are 'exercising' tithes, in a way not in conformance with the law, then it is not tithing as far as the law is concerned.

Which one is agreement "in principle" again, all this law court practices sha. 'Detail' in my post refers to EXTENT or magnitude. i.e The mention of mint and anise is to show the EXTENT/MAGNITUDE to which they gave tithe, its not an hint that those were the only things they gave tithe of.

It refers to extent of agricultural produce, in that spices are the smallest agricultural produce that you could have. If it is not a hint of the other items being tithed, we go to the source scripture for tithing under the law, which is Leviticus 27:30 - and that EXPLICITLY tells you it is agricultural produce.

As to where details lie, the details of tithes lie in scriptures. One scripture is not to be held to ransom or isolation. Scriptures interpret and complement one another.

Leviticus 27:30 (agricultural produce)tithing complements dill and cumin (agricultural produce) tithing in Matthew.

Holding one sided views and demarcations is what muslins and atheists do to satisfy themselves that scripture is untrue or contradicts. All the verses on tithes are the FULL revelation on tithes, not just one or two verses that suit our perceptions and websites/blogs.

I see no contradiction - I only see an attempt by you to expand a FIXED definition beyond what it has been restricted to. I did not make the restriction, God did so in Leviticus 27:30.

Oh, so Abraham's tithe is voluntary according to you, but mine must be Abraham style? Do you read yourself?

Of course - it must be voluntary.

The tithe(whatever currency) is to God, or as to God, through His temple the church. Not everybody holds the same function in the body. This is rudimentary bible class.

Where was tithe defined as is to God or 'as is to God', and what is that tithe defined as?

Jesus NEVER taught His disciples NOT to tithe, If he did, kindly point it out. i already pointed out Matthew 23.
Mat 23:1 Then spake Jesus to the multitude, and to his disciples,
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Even if you challenge that, honourably point out your own as i requested, thanks.

Woe to the Pharisees and scribes no be so? Or are disciples now scribes and Pharisees? You are clutching at straws here.

Again, you have decided to alter my comparison out of context. Tithing is as common sense as tax, if not more common sense. Real and responsible people are not continually cajoled, enticed, and pampered to do them.

Absolute rubbish - I have precisely captured your meaning - once you are mandated to do it as tax is, it is no longer voluntary.

When they say A is as --- as B, it doesn't mean that they are exactly the same thing. It is the --- quality in A and B that is been highlighted. You used to be better at grammar than this.

Hehehehe - don't play with words brother. A is as B means they share fundamental qualities/similarities. The only similarity shared between tithes (to Israel) and taxes is their mandatory nature. As you've often said, tithes BELONG to God, i.e. it is not a choice.

WE DO NOT DO ANY OF THIS TO BE JUSTIFIED. If you can understand that, there will be nothing left for me to say on this.

You do it because it is mandatory no?

The tithes the levites received was not only agricultural produce but MAINLY agricultural produce. We've talked on this before,
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.

What else did Levites receive? Spell it out - I will not accept inference here.

And there is no where it is stated in scriptures that Jesus endorsed one kind of tithing and didn't endorse one kind.

Jesus endorsed EXPLICITLY the tithe of dill and cumin - agricultural produce - as mandated in Leviticus 27:30. That is the ONLY form of tithing Jesus is recorded as endorsing.

The tithes the levites received was not only agricultural produce but MAINLY agricultural produce. We've talked on this before,
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
And there is no where it is stated in scriptures that Jesus endorsed one kind of tithing and didn't endorse one kind.

Wrong. The TITHES the Levites received was ONLY agricultural produce plus the animals specified in Leviticus 27:32.

You obviously don't understand Leviticus 27:31. Redeem means BUY BACK. You have to have the agricultural tithe to begin with in order to buy it back. The tithe was the produce, not the money. The tithe was SOLD for money in Leviticus 27:31.

Jesus endorsed tithing "AS MATTERS OF THE LAW" which included the herbs being tithed by the scribes and Pharisees. You will find no endorsement of any other type of tithe by Jesus in the scriptures.

This foolishness really needs to stop. Those teaching this false tithing doctrine obviously don't fear the consequences.

concluding part of my rebuttal to Image's post:

Image123:
Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
ensure you are a Jew - not metaphorical or Spiritual like some like to paint it, but a biological descendant of Jacob/Israel

Hmmm, may it be well. You are saying that the verse in RED is stating the words in GREEN above?

Am I saying so? Let's hear what scripture is saying:

Leviticus 27:34 These are the commands the Lord gave Moses at Mount Sinai for the Israelites

So yes, the Israelites - those to whom those instructions were given - were biological descendants of Jacob.

Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
is not the same as And ONLY all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.

Are you attempting to add to the Word of God? If not, please show specifically where the other non agricultural tithes were given. As I said earlier, no inferences - direct examples.

No where in the Bible is it stated that that passage is the only and final, the first and the last on tithes. The passage is simply reminding/telling us that tithes belong to God, not just to men(our brethren the Levites) as some of them may have been tempted to think. This reminder enhances the solemnity and seriousness they were to engage. They were not expected to treat it with levity.

That passage was reminding the Israelites - those commanded to tithe as in Leviticus - of what they were supposed to continue doing. We cannot simply pick a word and define it as we please from scripture - this is what you are attempting - especially when God clearly defined what he referred to as belonging to Him, namely all the tithe of the land.

Tithe is simply/basically a tenth. The two words are used interchangeably because they basically mean the same thing.

In terms of dictionary definition, yes. But God has specified a tithe - not just 'tithe' in its general sense. This tithe - a tithe of everything from the land - is clearly defined in the bible and CANNOT be converted into a tenth of whatever you choose to make it.

And the tithe OF any other thing given to the minister belongs to who?

It belongs to the giver if it does not meet the definition of a tithe - of everything from the land - that belongs to, and is Holy to the Lord.

You may not have read
1Co 16:2 Upon the first day of the week let every one of you lay by him in store, as God hath prospered him, that there be no gatherings when I come.
Remember that as God hath is proportional and has been discussed before.

I have no issues with giving in proportion to what you have - as you've said, we've discussed this before.

Indeed, you and your folks have been requiring that we give as is seen in the Acts to Revelations part of the Bible.
Act 4:34 Neither was there any among them that lacked: for as many as were possessors of lands or houses sold them, and brought the prices of the things that were sold,
Act 4:35 And laid them down at the apostles' feet: and distribution was made unto every man according as he had need.Act 4:32 And the multitude of them that believed were of one heart and of one soul: neither said any of them that aught of the things which he possessed was his own; but they had all things common.

Don't lemme start on the rest of the passages, it could be pretty embarrassing.

Yes we have - and giving in that manner does not mean, as you disingenuously imply, exact replication of what was done in Acts. It simply means following the simple instruction in 2 Cor 9:7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Give as you decide to give - nothing more is required. If you decide to sell your house, no issues. If you decide to share everything with everyone, that's your prerogative. If you decide not to either of the above, no issues either.

i said a form of support. What is a spiritual principle?

Ask your friends Bidam and Joe Agbaje who have defined tithing as a spiritual principle.

I will help you blow it OUT after I'm done.....with my exams at the end of the month. The more I study God's word the more I can expose or correct lies. Some people 'might' not like me for my new 'craze' about Greek\Hebrew meaning but that's one of the things I found to be true and helps to correct issues. As a matter of fact, I'm doing little study of the Bible now, I'm only going back to the Hebrew\Greek and apply word meaning. If they like, they should hate me for that, that's their headache. It's available for everyone, go and do your own study too.

The lies of tithe is further exposed when I further looked into some words meanings @ those who said Apostles Paul by 'inference' taught tithe to Christians even without using the word 'tithe'; they are just being dishonest and word meanings proves that. Before I return again fully, lemme drop this here and if it doesn't shut their tithe mouths forever,

Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver. 2 Corinthians 9:7, KJV

Now, we all know what grudgingly means right.....abi make I still do word study ni? Now, what is the 'necessity' aspect of this instruction? As usual, taking you through word blabla, if you like, hate me...but it will help you.

It is the Greek word, anagkē and means,

1) necessity, imposed either by the circumstances, or by law of duty regarding to one's advantage, custom, argument
2) calamity, distress, straits.

From here, Strong's concordance: http://www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?Strongs=G318&t=KJV

So we know it's using 'necessity' by the first meaning. Take that meaning and key into the text and it will open your eyes to clearer understanding. Here is it,

Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of imposed either by the circumstances, or by law of duty regarding to one's advantage, custom, argument: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Now, if the law of Moses or of tithing was imposed to the national Israel or given to them as a law of duty to one's (their) advantage or by custom or argument, whatever it is and this Christians giving instructions says our giving should be by what is purposed in the heart and NOT by imposed either by the circumstances, or by law of duty regarding to one's advantage, custom, argument (that is, meaning of 'necessity'); it is very clear that Christian giving negates Israel's way of tithing which is\was 'imposed...by law...'.

gosh the man currently taking the heat, i wish you would rather ask God Himself to teach you. It'll give you life and light guaranteed. i seriously doubt if anyone hates you, a suspicious thing for a Christian BTW. Why not ask God more instead of this studying more. i guarantee there is nothing new under the sun, there may be new stuff above it though .

Image123: gosh the man currently taking the heat, i wish you would rather ask God Himself to teach you. It'll give you life and light guaranteed. i seriously doubt if anyone hates you, a suspicious thing for a Christian BTW. Why not ask God more instead of this studying more. i guarantee there is nothing new under the sun, there may be new stuff above it though .

lol..that guy has not yet come to the realization that even the tithing he condemns is by grace.

May God make us of quick understanding and not all this head knowledge of scriptures,jingoism and trying to look for loopholes and techniques in order to evade what God has said..It takes the Holy Spirit to actually understand and discern the simplicity of the Gospel. May God help us. Amen.

@Image123 & Bidam
You guys are so dishonest it's nauseating, instead of you to address the scriptures Goshen expanded on or humbly accept you have been in error and pray to God for forgiveness for leading believers astray you are coming up with ad hominems to create an impression you are right when it has been proven beyond all reasonable doubt that you guys are steep in error. And your asking Goshen to ask God is even more ridiculous as God would NEVER endorse the twisting of his word the way you guys regularly assault scriptures.

^^^

Their judgement lingereth not.

Our work is to keep talking and preaching.

I am thinking of starting a leaflet project, where we can distribute tracts with information on the tithe and the prosperity gospel to reach hundreds of thousands, at the initial phase in Nigeria, I don't mind spending money on this.

Like you rightly said, it is sickening to see people reject the word of God in favour of money.

^^^
The idea of tracts make a lot of sense, I am also willing to support the cause financially. Our captive brethen must be set free.

Bros Image - have you had time to read and digest my response?

Bidam: May God make us of quick understanding and not all this head knowledge of scriptures,jingoism and trying to look for loopholes and techniques in order to evade what God has said..It takes the Holy Spirit to actually understand and discern the simplicity of the Gospel. May God help us. Amen.

So, on what ground does the Holy Spirit reveal the truth? On empty head? Or on the platform of the word, via studying (the word of God) to show one's self approved unto God? You're operating based on your knowledge and what do you call 'head' knowledge if it is not put their by God's Spirit? When I say something you agree with, you will not say I used 'jingoism' and all that stuff; you only condemn it when it doesn't suit or agree with your view. Hmmm, interesting!