frosbel: ^^^

Their judgement lingereth not.

Our work is to keep talking and preaching.

I am thinking of starting a leaflet project, where we can distribute tracts with information on the tithe and the prosperity gospel to reach hundreds of thousands, at the initial phase in Nigeria, I don't mind spending money on this.

Like you rightly said, it is sickening to see people reject the word of God in favour of money.

Pastor Kun: ^^^
The idea of tracts make a lot of sense, I am also willing to support the cause financially. Our captive brethen must be set free.

I'm Goshen360 and I ENDORSE this project! I'm also willing to contribute HEAVILY!

We need talk as usual, outside the forum and start planning towards it! YES, we CAN!

debosky: Bros Image - have you had time to read and digest my response?

my oga give me time oh, a little busied these days to do extensive posting.

frosbel: ^^^
Like you rightly said, it is sickening to see people reject the word of God in favour of money.

...same manner they will also reject your tract (in favor of money). you don't want image123 and bidam to 'hammer' abi?

Goshen360:
So, on what ground does the Holy Spirit reveal the truth? On empty head?

no be today. It's obvious bidam been receiving revelation on empty head

Goshen360:
I'm Goshen360 and I ENDORSE this project! I'm also willing to contribute HEAVILY!

mr brother, e be like i go write book o! na people like you pastors dey look for

Zikkyy:

no be today. It's obvious bidam been receiving revelation on empty head



mr brother, e be like i go write book o! na people like you pastors dey look for

No mind that prophet Bidam. And as for you (Brother Zikky), when you're ready to publish your book, send me a preview copy online and I will be willing to support your project HEAVILY and FINANCIALLY! but you go promise me say the book will be given FREE to people because FREELY you will be supported to publish the book abi you sef wan start to dey chop for alter ni?

Goshen360:
but you go promise me say the book will be given FREE to people because FREELY you will be supported to publish the book abi you sef wan start to dey chop for alter ni?

before nkor? you think i wan write book for empty stomach? just as the priest of old lived off the stuff sacrificed on the altar, the lord has commanded that we Christian writers also chop from our writings/publications

Goshen360:

So, on what ground does the Holy Spirit reveal the truth? On empty head? Or on the platform of the word, via studying (the word of God) to show one's self approved unto God? You're operating based on your knowledge and what do you call 'head' knowledge if it is not put their by God's Spirit? When I say something you agree with, you will not say I used 'jingoism' and all that stuff; you only condemn it when it doesn't suit or agree with your view. Hmmm, interesting!

actually you need to take a time out of this your speakings, teachings and counseling...what you really need right now like i said is NOT mind knowledge but rather a heart experience .

Image123:
my oga give me time oh, a little busied these days to do extensive posting.

No wahala my oga at the top. Me sef it took me a over a week to get a chance to respond to yours.

Bidam: actually you need to take a time out of this your speakings, teachings and counseling...what you really need right now like i said is NOT mind knowledge but rather a heart experience .

Sharrap there But truthfully, I will 'soon' be on break from Nairaland though. Doing some final touch on some things and surely as it turns out well by the end of this month, I'm taking a break....but anytime I peep into the forum and see you wan collect tithe, I will immediately show-up . You're my best pal anyway...unlike 'some'

Goshen360:

Sharrap there But truthfully, I will 'soon' be on break from Nairaland though. Doing some final touch on some things and surely as it turns out well by the end of this month, I'm taking a break....but anytime I peep into the forum and see you wan collect tithe, I will immediately show-up . You're my best pal anyway...unlike 'some'

God speed my brother.As for tithes..Na God money no be my own.

Bidam: God speed my brother.As for tithes..Na God money no be my own.

Until you explain to us how you deliver this money to God, we wld continue to believe you are the beneficiary of this tithe money.

Pastor Kun:

Until you explain to us how you deliver this money to God, we wld continue to believe you are the beneficiary of this tithe money.

Probably by rocket, lol.

debosky:

How can it be peripheral? If the type of tithe has now gone away with the Levitical priesthood, then the endorsement bears no relevance to whatever is being practiced today.

It can be peripheral because if Jesus is addressing any man, all men should take note. His words apply to everyone in any given situation. If you are an hypocrite, or i am an hypocrite, or Peter becomes an hypocrite, it is still woe from Jesus. Same thing when He says "ye ought to do". Its not segmented to just pharisees and the beginning of the chapter plainly includes DISCIPLES among those been addressed. its unfortunate many are acting like they are wiser than the Spirit of God that authored the passage. You are the one claiming it to be a segmented type of tithe. There is no where in scripture that claims so.

I cannot now insist I need to carry out physical circumcision simply because 'the scripture remains', neither can I insist on carrying my tithe to Jerusalem because 'the scripture remains'. No one has done away with scripture here.

You don't need to make such insistence when scriptures PLAINLY teach passages like below.
1Co 7:19 Circumcision is nothing, and uncircumcision is nothing, but the keeping of the commandments of God.
Joh 4:21 Jesus saith unto her, Woman, believe me, the hour cometh, when ye shall neither in this mountain, nor yet at Jerusalem, worship the Father.

Scriptures balance and complement one another. There is a BIG difference between the Spirit of God's adding to His Word, and individuals like you and me adding to God's Word or removing from it by logic and emotion.

Who said the word has passed away? The fact is that Jesus endorsed Levitical tithing by Pharisees to the Leivitical Priesthood - how is a recognition of that fact equivalent to scripture passing away?

i thank God, Jesus NEVER said
Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay Levitical tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: Levitical tithe ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
You are the one(s) saying that. Hear what Jesus simply said.
Mat 23:23 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Hear in from Luke also,
Luk 11:42 But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
Jesus didn't give any high sounding talk on levitical tithing to levitical priesthoods. It was all so simple and basic, tithe was and is a tenth. The teaching of the Bible was that tithe belonged to God. People who gave it gave it as unto God. Just like they offered other gifts and offerings like the sin offering, meat offering, trespass offering and co. When some people didn't bring their tithes, God declared that He was robbed. Why? Because it belongs to Him. All these small talk about Levi is irrelevant in God's scheme.

There's nothing wrong with it I agree - however, if you are not tithing according to the Law's requirements, how can you claim to be even adhering to the law?

i don't think i'm making such baseless claims.

Ok so English is now your problem? Go and read Leviticus 27:30 - for your sake I will call it tithing as described in Leviticus instead. Deal? Jesus did not endorse 'tithing' simple - he endorsed tithing of dill and cumin. Tithing of dill and cumin is according to the instructions in Leviticus. Simple.

Again, here is the verse.
Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
The word 'ONLY' is not found in the verse. You are the ones trying to limit/cage the verse. The proper understanding of any Bible teaching or doctrine should be cumulative. By cumulative, i mean all that the Bible has to say on such subject, doctrine or teaching should be considered. That is how one may avoid cherry picking. Picking one verse and building skyscrappers on it is faulty. Read all the BIBLE verses on tithe at least, seeing the common man's dictionary's relevance is lost on you folks. Read on Abraham and his perspective, on Jacob, read Malachi, Luke and Hebrews and any/every other passage. Then understand and define tithes there, not just one verse bias.

You CANNOT exercise tithes as defined under the law, except to the Levitical Priesthood. If you are 'exercising' tithes, in a way not in conformance with the law, then it is not tithing as far as the law is concerned.

Do you exercise mercy, faith or judgement of any form? If yes, stop coercing and haling people from exercising their tithing rights in the form they do.

It refers to extent of agricultural produce, in that spices are the smallest agricultural produce that you could have. If it is not a hint of the other items being tithed, we go to the source scripture for tithing under the law, which is Leviticus 27:30 - and that EXPLICITLY tells you it is agricultural produce.

REMINDER,
Galat 5:18 But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

Leviticus 27:30 (agricultural produce)tithing complements dill and cumin (agricultural produce) tithing in Matthew.

The Bible does not start or end on that verse, THANK GOD.
2Ch 31:5 And as soon as the commandment came abroad, the children of Israel brought in abundance the firstfruits of corn, wine, and oil, and honey, and of all the increase of the field; and the tithe of all things brought they in abundantly.
Gen 14:20 And blessed be the most high God, which hath delivered thine enemies into thy hand. And he gave him tithes of all.
Luk 18:12 I fast twice in the week, I give tithes of all that I possess.
You are crying more than the bereaved here. They God that i give tithes to has accepted it and forever receives it. Thank God He is not man, we for no dey accepted in the beloved.
Heb 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.

I see no contradiction - I only see an attempt by you to expand a FIXED definition beyond what it has been restricted to. I did not make the restriction, God did so in Leviticus 27:30.

Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
Who fixed this verse except you? By your sentence, it even means verse 32 that talks of animals is left out. If you see no contradiction, why do you complain when people tithe after the principle of their father Abraham(without the law)? Where did i expand it to? Did i take my own words or the Bible's. Is it no more true that in the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established? It is biblical to take more bible witnesses(passages) to establish what we define and teach. This FIXING is of a 'match-fixing' order, it is unscriptural.

Of course - it must be voluntary.

You are laughing? Is it voluntary when you force someone to practice it? Are you not like the preachers that you folks are fighting tooth and nail in your imaginations?

Where was tithe defined as is to God or 'as is to God', and what is that tithe defined as?

Luk 21:4 For all these have of their abundance cast in unto the offerings of God: but she of her penury hath cast in all the living that she had.
Things offered in the temple belong to God, though the temple ministers would be the primary users by divine proxy.

Woe to the Pharisees and scribes no be so? Or are disciples now scribes and Pharisees? You are clutching at straws here.

Jesus NEVER taught His disciples NOT to tithe, If he did, kindly point it out. Even if you challenge that, honourably point out your own as i requested, thanks.

Absolute rubbish - I have precisely captured your meaning - once you are mandated to do it as tax is, it is no longer voluntary.

i think you introduced things. i talked about common sense, you're bringing up a mandate.

Hehehehe - don't play with words brother. A is as B means they share fundamental qualities/similarities. The only similarity shared between tithes (to Israel) and taxes is their mandatory nature. As you've often said, tithes BELONG to God, i.e. it is not a choice.

Son 4:1 Behold, thou art fair, my love; behold, thou art fair; thou hast doves' eyes within thy locks: thy hair is as a flock of goats, that appear from mount Gilead.
Do hair and goats share fundamental similarities? Why do you try as much as possible to misunderstand my words? Is the verse above playing with words? Consider this phrase by the same writer "love is strong as death"
Again, Tithing is as common sense as tax, if not more common sense. Real and responsible people are not continually cajoled, enticed, and pampered to do them.

You do it because it is mandatory no?

i've said it before. i do not think anything(or lets safely say many things) is mandatory in the the new testament. Not prayer, not fasting, not fellowshipping, not Bible reading, not tithe/giving. We are now adults as it were.

What else did Levites receive? Spell it out - I will not accept inference here.

What should i spell oh, is it your name? i thought you were turning into some self styled authority on Leviticus? Like i said, i've talked on this before.
Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Anybody that studies that verse and that chapter would(supposed to) observe that one could redeem his tithe and instead give non-agricultural substance as tithe. The condition in the verse is to add thereto the fifth part.

Jesus endorsed EXPLICITLY the tithe of dill and cumin - agricultural produce - as mandated in Leviticus 27:30. That is the ONLY form of tithing Jesus is recorded as endorsing.

Oh, it was so explicit He forgot to mention that He was ONLY referring to the segmented and discriminated Leviticus 27:30 isolated pattern of tithe. If it was so dangerous and unacceptable to offer any form of tithe different from the anti-tither's definition, don't you think Jesus should have warned it? This 'GREAT' ministry that people are so eager to take up on the internet, the ministry and apostleship of antitithing, don't you think at least one of the Bible writers should have told us about it?

debosky: concluding part of my rebuttal to Image's post:



Am I saying so? Let's hear what scripture is saying:

Leviticus 27:34 These are the commands the Lord gave Moses at Mount Sinai for the Israelites

So yes, the Israelites - those to whom those instructions were given - were biological descendants of Jacob.

But you initially said that verse 30 was saying that i must ensure that i'm a Jew and you pulled out something about biology from the air. Now, you've shifted your goal post (even changed the very match).
You make the same lame mistake that you made in Matthew 23v23 about who is been addressed. ALL Scripture is for us, ALL. You are of little faith until you believe that. And you need to pray God to increase your faith perhaps. Then someone else will come and say Acts is written to Theophilus, and Paul is talking to Galatians, or Peter is addressing strangers in Pontus, Galatia, Cappadocia, Asia, and Bithynia. Or Jesus is talking to the Laodiceans. ALL SCRIPTURE is for us. NEWSFLASH, The second great commandment is Mat 22:39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbor as thyself. This command is ONLY found in Leviticus. If for selfish interests, to win your point, you throw away the whole of Leviticus as instructions given to biological descendants of Jacob, implying and inferring that its non-applicable to you and me. My question is, is a gentile supposed to love his neighbour as himself, AND WHEN DOES THIS APPLY if it does?

Are you attempting to add to the Word of God? If not, please show specifically where the other non agricultural tithes were given. As I said earlier, no inferences - direct examples.

Lev 27:31 And if a man will at all redeem aught of his tithes, he shall add thereto the fifth part thereof.
Read the verse, read the chapter, read a commentary, use concordance. If after you have done these and you can't see, please tell me. i will spoon-feed you. AGAIN, Lev 27:30 And all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.
is not the same as And ONLY all the tithe of the land, whether of the seed of the land, or of the fruit of the tree, is the LORD's: it is holy unto the LORD.

That passage was reminding the Israelites - those commanded to tithe as in Leviticus - of what they were supposed to continue doing. We cannot simply pick a word and define it as we please from scripture - this is what you are attempting - especially when God clearly defined what he referred to as belonging to Him, namely all the tithe of the land.

On what is this your assumption premised? The passage is the FIRST place where giving of tithe is written after Jacob. What is this reminding all about? If you say i am attempting, i think you have ALREADY attempted. Practice what you preach(Matthew 7v1-5).

In terms of dictionary definition, yes. But God has specified a tithe - not just 'tithe' in its general sense. This tithe - a tithe of everything from the land - is clearly defined in the bible and CANNOT be converted into a tenth of whatever you choose to make it.

No where in the Bible is it stated that that passage is the only and final, the first and the last on tithes. Why can you not see this so plain fact.

It belongs to the giver if it does not meet the definition of a tithe - of everything from the land - that belongs to, and is Holy to the Lord.

What/where is your backing for this idea? The 'definition' of tithes is basically a tenth, and since you can't process that, it is a cumulative of the meaning and practice of tithe in ALL scripture. Leviticus is not more special than the other scriptures that talk about(describe) tithe.

I have no issues with giving in proportion to what you have - as you've said, we've discussed this before.

And tithe qualifies in this category of giving IN PROPORTION TO WHAT YOU HAVE, which you claim to have no issues with.

Yes we have - and giving in that manner does not mean, as you disingenuously imply, exact replication of what was done in Acts. It simply means following the simple instruction in 2 Cor 9:7 Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver.

Give as you decide to give - nothing more is required. If you decide to sell your house, no issues. If you decide to share everything with everyone, that's your prerogative. If you decide not to either of the above, no issues either.

i put you on the standard that you set for tithers and you failed. You demand an exact replication from us, don't you? It must be spoils, it must be to Jerusalem, it must be agric, it must be this and that. Your laws sef pass the ones wey them they talk for different church pulpits.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy burdens and grievous to be borne, and lay them on men's shoulders; but they themselves will not move them with one of their fingers.

Ask your friends Bidam and Joe Agbaje who have defined tithing as a spiritual principle.

debosky: The principle is supporting ministers and nothing more.

Image123: Is tithe not a form of support?

debosky: A form of support, but not the principle of support.

Image123: i said a form of support. What is a spiritual principle?

debosky: Ask your friends Bidam and Joe Agbaje who have defined tithing as a spiritual principle.


You were the one harping on the word 'principle', not my friends Bidam and Jo.

Some kind things that people post long past python.

The ignorance being shown by some is overwhelming.

Some here just can't understand the difference between what comes from God's labor and what comes from man's labor.

Some here just can't understand that God commanded a tithe from HIS increase, not man's income.

Some here believe a tenth of EVERYTHING belongs to God as His tithe, yet THEY LIMITED the tenth to certain items. They don't give a tenth of their family to God. They don't give a tenth of their car to God. They don't give a tenth of their trash to God. etc. etc. etc.

The scriptures make it very clear that God commanded three tithes, ALL OF WHICH WERE TO BE EATEN.

we don't need irrelevant understanding to obey simple instructions. A true Christian owes all his labor to God, infact, all his life. Without God , he can do or acheive nothing.

Image123: A true Christian owes all his labor to God, infact, all his life. Without God , he can do or acheive nothing.

Agree, as long as you understand:

Deuteronomy 8:18 (KJV) But thou shalt remember the LORD thy God: for it is he that giveth thee power to get wealth, that he may establish his covenant which he sware unto thy fathers, as it is this day.

And from the New International Version:
Deuteronomy 8:18 (NIV) But remember the LORD your God, for it is he who gives you the ability to produce wealth, and so confirms his covenant, which he swore to your forefathers, as it is today.

God gives us the power, or ability, to get or produce wealth. In other words, God gives us the ability to work and earn a living. God gives us the ability to work - to labor. When we work, it is our labor doing the work, not God's labor. He gave us the ability to do the work ourselves.

It is important in our bible studies to understand the distinction between God's labor and
man's labor. Man cannot make the crops. Man can plant the seed, cultivate the land, water the seed, but man's labor does not make the increase (fruit) on the vines or trees.
Man cannot make olive oil. God makes the olives from His labor. Man can press the oil
from the olives with man's labor, but man does not make the olive oil.

God NEVER commanded anyone to tithe from other than His increase.

^
unimportant. You're only introducing more semantics and word jangle to confuse and impress. As is your custom, you refused to address all that was said. I'll wait for debo.

Image123: ^
unimportant. You're only introducing more semantics and word jangle to confuse and impress. As is your custom, you refused to address all that was said. I'll wait for debo.

You obviously don't have a clue as to what the Biblical tithe was all about.

;Dchai! :ochai! that was a long read!
So what is the conclusion of the matter

Image123: ^
unimportant. You're only introducing more semantics and word jangle to confuse and impress. As is your custom, you refused to address all that was said. I'll wait for debo.

And you think you addressed any of the issues raised by debo You did nothing of such rather in your usual custom you danced round the issues raised, cast aspersions, did word play and wrote a lot of thrash in trying to create an impression that you were addressing the issues even when you know in your own heart that you have no valid points.

Pastor Kun:

And you think you addressed any of the issues raised by debo You did nothing of such rather in your usual custom you danced round the issues raised, cast aspersions, did word play and wrote a lot of thrash in trying to create an impression that you were addressing the issues even when you know in your own heart that you have no valid points.

I pity those he teaches, these are the dangerous people who are spreading poison in the body of Christ, subverting whole households for the love of money, their mouths must be stopped, and in our own small way, we will see to it.

frosbel:

I pity those he teaches, these are the dangerous people who are spreading poison in the body of Christ, subverting whole households for the love of money, their mouths must be stopped, and in our own small way, we will see to it.

That's akin to a fellow in abject poverty having pity for someone like dangote. Be wise

Image123:
That's akin to a fellow in abject poverty having pity for someone like dangote. Be wise

Okay my rich Lord !! Your tithing is working wonders, carry on

Goshen360:



I'm Goshen360 and I ENDORSE this project! I'm also willing to contribute HEAVILY!

We need talk as usual, outside the forum and start planning towards it! YES, we CAN!

ENDORSING FALSEHOOD doesn't make it right in God sight.

Bidam: ENDORSING FALSEHOOD doesn't make it right in God sight.

But it is right to reap off believers using the name of God to extort 10% of their regular income. SMH

Pastor Kun:

Until you explain to us how you deliver this money to God, we wld continue to believe you are the beneficiary of this tithe money.

and why should ?It is hypocrites like you who pretend to be real disciples but are not. there are so many JUDASES AND THIS IS A PERFECT EXAMPLE OF ONE.John 12:6 ESV

He said this, not because he cared about the poor, but because he was a thief, and having charge of the moneybag he used to help himself to what was put into it.

Pastor Kun:

But it is right to reap off believers using the name of God to extort 10% of their regular income. SMH

NAIRALANDERS YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN JUDAS IS ALWAYS AROUND THE CORNER.

Bidam: NAIRALANDERS YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN JUDAS IS ALWAYS AROUND THE CORNER.

@Bidam with all sense of christian responsibility I label you a filthy rogue, a ravenous wolf in sheep's clothing that is only out to devour and take advantage of the sheep.

I took out today to again study this thread and I must confess it has been very rewarding. The debate was hot but it was worth the effort opening the thrad. I hope people we find it a blessing as it has been to me.

Bidam: NAIRALANDERS YOU SEE WHAT I MEAN JUDAS IS ALWAYS AROUND THE CORNER.

Sharrap !