Black fathers urged to be more involved with children


Prominent black MP David Lammy will tell the Runnymede race think tank that fathers must take more responsibility.

In a speech on Monday, he will say this would address issues such as education underachievement and high crime rates.

The higher education minister will also praise women in families where fathers are either absent or uninvolved.

In the event to link in with Mothering Sunday, he will say: "What many women want for Mothers' Day can't be given by their children - it is more engaged fathers."

Mr Lammy will touch on figures that suggest 59% of black Caribbean and 44% of black African children grow up in single-parent families.

"The mark of a man is not how many children he spawns but how he matches up as a father," he will say.

Mr Lammy will also call for fathers from all backgrounds to remain in touch with their children whatever the relationship with their mothers.

He will say: "Between a quarter and a third of children with separated parents have little or no contact with their fathers.

"It is not just the structure of families that matters. It is whether fathers continue to contribute to their children's lives."

He will argue that "modern fatherhood needs updating from the traditional model", saying that young people need "an emotional bond with their father".

The speech at the House of Commons will be accompanied by recorded video interviews with leading black figures such as broadcaster Sir Trevor McDonald and chart-topping rapper Tinie Tempah.

Sir Trevor said his father had a major influence on his life.

He told Mr Lammy: "My father always said 'Reach for the stars and you may get to the top of the trees, but you have to aim high'."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/politics/8565277.stm

biolabee:
Now you have called me a misogynist,... if u cant have a issue-based discussion without resorting to name-calling and insults, i will have to leave this thread

misogynist shouldn't be an insult to you because all the ideas you have laid out here are misogynist. embrace your ideology proudly. you ARE a misogynist.

99cent: the funniest thing is that blacks are usually the most sexist and homophobic.
partially because whites have power over them, they in turn look for where to gain power and decide to lash out against women, children and gays.

I'm not sexist. I love my sisters and aunts and female friends. I don't believe women should be denied their freedoms. I oppose domestic violence and rape. I believe women should get equal pay for a job that men get paid for.

I detest homosexuality and lesbianism but I support gay rights. I hate homosexuality not bc I'm black but bc of my religion. Christianity is multiracial. However I understand that the US is a secular state run by a constitution and not the bible. Hence I support gay rights. Also I hate oppression. So when I see a minority ( LGBT in this case, unborn fetuses in another case) being oppressed I'm offended.)

in fact, good thing that many of the women are single because I am 100% sure many of those kids will suffer from the hands of abusive fathers more than they suffer from being raised with single mothers!!

Responsible single mothers are preferred to abusive fathers. No Debate!

those statistics claim that children fare better under 2 parent household. yet u cannot know how those one-parent children will fare if they had been raised under the same roof with their fathers (i am talking about black ghetto where there is extreme pathology of violence and crime). the women are single for a reason. the men are probably impossible to live with.
even white society puts them in jail because they are dangerous to society. how much more danger they will pose when they are sharing the same room with women and kids!!

Like I said, responsible single mothers are preferable to abusive fathers. However I have to point out that this debate has finally settled into what I always suspected it will be. A fight between black men and black women. It's ugly, I've seen enough of it online. And each time what I see is a race that is utterly suppressed in this country who instead of standing together decided to turn on each other. The black race remains the only race I know where one black is proud to tell people of another race how bad the black race is, and how he/she is different from other members/group of his/her race.

I live in Ohio, about 80-85% white, I've seen enough black guys telling their white girlfriends how bad black girls are and black girls telling their white boyfriends how bad black boys are. I've also seen whites laughing at them all. The body language of your argument has started going that way. Unfortunately.

But you know feminists can argue their points, if any, without pointing fingers at men.

biolabee:

I laff in feminism//// HAHHAHA

You earlier made a claim that feminists sponsor dodgy researchers to say single parenthood is better than having both parents, I asked you to provide proof of that statement and you haven't done that. I don't know why you are laughing.

biolabee:

You used one case in a state that adopted sharia - Zamfara by a gov who was playing to the gallery
For your info, nigerians condemned that act and sought int'l opinion to further sway the pendulum
There are more stonings in afghanistan than in northern nigeria

You said stonings is common in northern nigeria - FALLACY!!

right.because afghanistan men stone their women more than nigerian men stone their women.therefore nigeria must be a doing a great thing?
rubbish. since u are here to defend sharia and who knows maybe u want it to extend thougout nigeria (u already mentioned that women should be blamed for unwanted pregnancy and men have no responsibility for it). in the same contradictory breath you also condemned women's right to abortion.

toshmann:

Like I said, responsible single mothers are preferable to abusive fathers.

ok. so shouldn't we spend more time attacking abusive fathers than we spend attacking single mothers?

there is a high number of black males in jail and involved in criminal activity. don't you think this bears a correlation to why many black childen grow up in single parent household? do you think the women just intentionally decided that "oh I want my child to grow up in the worst possible environment possible"?

99cent: on the other hand, there are situations where a child's parents are married, yet the child is raised solely by the mother while the father might be absent or abusive. yet, such child is on the surface seen to be raised in a two-parent household.

This is what happens in many Nigerian households, the father is present but he does not take part in raising the children because he believes that raising kids is the job of women. Presence of the father in the household does not necessarily mean he will contribute positively to raising kids or contribute anything other than finance in raising them.

^ exactly

i'm sure there is data out there to show that children fare better in single parent household than in abusive two-parent household.
if there isn't then i won't know what to say except to question the motives of the marriage researchers u are citing. many of whom are probably male.

also, a child being raised in a single parent household is no different than a child raised in a two parent household where the father is not involved at all in the child's development. to make thing worse, if such a man is unemployed (as they tend to be in america), then he becomes useless in d family which is why there is high rate of single parent households in d first place. if a "father" can't contribute emotionally and to make things worse, he can't contribute financially, then what purpose does he serve as a "father"? why isn't society pointing to this sperm donor posing as a father?

99cent: ^ exactly

i'm sure there is data out there to show that children fare better in single parent household than in abusive two-parent household.
if there isn't then i won't know what to say except to question the motives of the marriage researchers u are citing. many of whom are probably male.

also, a child being raised in a single parent household is no different than a child raised in a two parent household where the father is not involved at all in the child's development. to make thing worse, if such a man is unemployed (as they tend to be in america), then he becomes useless in d family which is why there is high rate of single parent households in d first place. if a "father" can't contribute emotionally and to make things worse, he can't contribute financially, then what purpose does he serve as a "father"? why isn't society pointing to this sperm donor posing as a father?

@bold, typical of majority of nigerian households. Many men actually think it is demeaning to partake in raising their children. Some people think the presence of two parents automatically means that they are both going to raise the children and take active interest in their upbringing.

toshmann:
D'you realize that all I said is that women should be careful about the kind of man they sleep with. If perhaps they are so much in love with a nuisance, they should at least take preventive measures against unwanted pregnancy. Is that difficult?

Many women do that and they have no problems, no pregnancy and no baggage of bastards to bring up.

Toshmann, since you are so against abortion let me ask you two questions: what if a woman is rayped and she gets pregnant? What should she do about the pregnancy? carry it to term and bear a child that will remind her of her raype and raypist for the rest of her life?

What about cases where giving birth to a child places the mother at risk of dying? Like when the mother has a heart problem or respiratory problem etc? Should she go ahead and have the baby and then die during childbirth leaving the baby without a mother to take care of it?

fellis:

You earlier made a claim that feminists sponsor dodgy researchers to say single parenthood is better than having both parents, I asked you to provide proof of that statement and you haven't done that. I don't know why you are laughing.

The research is clearly blaming men for the reason why older females experience menopause
I dont need to look far to know the motive behind such research

Just like dodgy stats that advocate single parenting is better than 2 parent homes

Sorry i may need to step out as your posse member 99cent cannot make points without resorting to insult or namecalling

fellis:

Toshmann, since you are so against abortion let me ask you two questions: what if a woman is rayped and she gets pregnant? What should she do about the pregnancy? carry it to term and bear a child that will remind her of her raype and raypist for the rest of her life?

What about cases where giving birth to a child places the mother at risk of dying? Like when the mother has a heart problem or respiratory problem etc? Should she go ahead and have the baby and then die during childbirth leaving the baby without a mother to take care of it?

If you read my earlier posts( which you didn't read bc you just want to argue) I said except in therapeutic abortions where the life of the mother is at stake.

If a woman is rapedd in America, she may want to report to the police within 72hrs of the rap.e where she'll be taken to the doctor for treatment against STD and unwanted pregnancy. The idea of doing nothing and then stepping out when the fetus is 7months gestation to start asking for abortion rights is unacceptable.

Hope I answered your question ?

toshmann:
I detest homosexuality and lesbianism but I support gay rights.

ehhh. you make absolutely no sense here. you cannot detest homosexuality and lesbianism and support gay rights.
you can say that you are indifferent to gay rights then it would make sense
because no gay person in their right mind will look at you and call you a supporter.


this condescending tone is the same u assume when you are talking about women's rights. You need to look in d mirror and check urself.

i'm still trying to figure out in my head how a homophobic person can claim to be a supporter of gay rights.
hahaha. this is so funny and ironic at the same time.

just because you are not out there stoning gay people to death so that means gay people should start thanking u as a supporter?
the level of condescension in that post is ridiculous!!

99cent:

ok. so shouldn't we spend more time attacking abusive fathers than we spend attacking single mothers?

there is a high number of black males in jail and involved in criminal activity. don't you think this bears a correlation to why many black childen grow up in single parent household? do you think the women just intentionally decided that "oh I want my child to grow up in the worst possible environment possible"?

Now I see a lot of "black male" this "black man" that in your posts. Are we still discussing or trying to discuss feminism?

If you want to discuss black males and incarceration you can start a thread on it. The overwhelming incarceration of black males is no excuse to desire abprtion rights or cry out for feminism. What is the link between black make incarceration and feminism?
And I hope the feminism you talk about is the one I know bc you seem to be talking about race now. Your focused your aim at black men

99cent: i'm still trying to figure out in my head how a homophobic person can claim to be a supporter of gay rights.
hahaha. this is so funny and ironic at the same time.

Ok, I'll help your head figure it out.

Lets take the Jesus example.
A) Jesus hates sin. Right? But Jesus loved sinners that he died for them.

Now here;

I don't like homosexuality. I wouldn't want to be gay. I would t like any member of my family to be gay. BUT I would not block gay community from enjoying their rights as Americans which include eg, the right to serve in the US military, the right to equal opportunities etc. I will not support any discrimination against them. Neither do I support the Nigerian law that wants them locked up for 14yrs.

ekenedegreat: How can we (men) accept women as equals when most of u (women) off load ur burdens/needs on us to carry? So u see,there is no way we can be equals when most of u (ladies) always hunt 4 a man/men dat will take care of u and not a man/men dat u will take care of.

I really wish women would stop doing this!!!

toshmann:

Now I see a lot of "black male" this "black man" that in your posts. Are we still discussing or trying to discuss feminism?

If you want to discuss black males and incarceration you can start a thread on it. The overwhelming incarceration of black males is no excuse to desire abprtion rights or cry out for feminism. What is the link between black make incarceration and feminism?
And I hope the feminism you talk about is the one I know bc you seem to be talking about race now. Your focused your aim at black men

well. go back to the first post on this thread. u will see that chimamanda is talking about black feminism.
whites have advanced to a large extent and still advancing. besides, I assume that we are all black on this topic so why not focus on the koko of the matter.

what is the link between black incarceration and feminism, you say?
well, u are the one who brought up the idea that black single parent hood is the result of feminism (VERY WRONG assumption by the way) and then I countered the argument by saying that black incarceration affects single parenthood much much much more than feminism can even dream of impacting single parenthood
hope u get it now!

I.Joan:


I really wish women would stop doing this!!!

the burden argument is a myth.
infact women carry the most burden in most societies. esp poor ones.


reminds me of whites who were complaining during colonization that they were carrying a burden. they called it "white man's burden" lol as if blacks begged to be colonized.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man%27s_Burden

biolabee:

The research is clearly blaming men for the reason why older females experience menopause
I dont need to look far to know the motive behind such research

Just like dodgy stats that advocate single parenting is better than 2 parent homes

You are a funny guy. So because the research is blaming men that means feminists are behind the research? Please name three feminists that took part in the research work. thank you.

99cent:

well. go back to the first post on this thread. u will see that chimamanda is talking about black feminism.
whites have advanced to a large extent and still advancing. besides, I assume that we are all black on this topic so why not focus on the koko of the matter

I was obviously blind to the skin color of her argument. Na wa o

what is the link between black incarceration and feminism, you say?
well, u are the one who brought up the idea that black single parent hood is the result of feminism (VERY WRONG assumption by the way)

i did?
dyou mond showing me the post where i made the statement?

and then I countered the argument by saying that black incarceration affects single parenthood much much much more than feminism can even dream of impacting single parenthood
hope u get it now!

Obviously I don't get your point.

My argument against feminism has always been that women are always beefing about something that NO LAW is stopping them from doing!

toshmann:

If you read my earlier posts( which you didn't read bc you just want to argue) I said except in therapeutic abortions where the life of the mother is at stake.

If a woman is rapedd in America, she may want to report to the police within 72hrs of the rap.e where she'll be taken to the doctor for treatment against STD and unwanted pregnancy. The idea of doing nothing and then stepping out when the fetus is 7months gestation to start asking for abortion rights is unacceptable.

Hope I answered your question ?

@bold, there is no need to get defensive my friend, I actually went through the pages of this thread but I missed the part where you said the thing about therapeutic pregnancies, I didn't ask because I want to argue.

So you have agreed that abortion can be allowed when the women is rayped and when her life is at risk if she gives birth? What about in a situation where the mother is not financially equipped to take care of the child after birth?

Also, It doesn't make any difference if you support abortion of pregnancies due to raype and if you support abortion in any circumstance or situation at all.
Your reason for opposing abortion is because you think it is murder of an innocent life, but don't you also consider abortion by rayped women as murder? Why would you support the killing of innocent children that had nothing to do with the raype or their mother's therapeutic health problems?

I.Joan:


I really wish women would stop doing this!!!

Now that's some feminist talking.

But even here I disagree with it. Men and women are not supposed to be competing but complementing each other.

Many marriages breakdown bc there seems to be some sort of conflict from competition within.

fellis:

You are a funny guy. So because the research is blaming men that means feminists are behind the research? Please name three feminists that took part in the research work. thank you.

The team that did the work is predominantly male trying to prove female assetions that men are to blame for hormonal effects or normal old age
In my opinion, they have strong feminist sympathies


The team behind the research

Rama Singh, a professor in the department of biology at McMaster University in Hamilton, Ontario, thinks he’s figured it out. Menopause, the Canadian researcher argues, is men’s fault.

Controversial new research suggests that ancestral males' preference for younger women actually set the stage for the evolution of menopause.
In a paper published today in PLOS Computational Biology, Singh and two colleagues detail elaborate evolutionary computer models demonstrating that “male mating preference for younger females” leads to the development of a long menopausal period.

“I am saying what women have been saying all their lives,” Singh told NBCNews.com. “Men are to blame.”

http://www.today.com/health/menopause-cause-it-may-well-be-men-scientists-say-6C10315362

http://phys.org/news/2013-06-menopause-iswait-itmen.html

toshmann:

Now that's some feminist talking.

But even here I disagree with it. Men and women are not supposed to be competing but complementing each other.

Many marriages breakdown bc there seems to be some sort of conflict from competition within.

hahaha @ your first sentence.
all I can picture is a old white male republican looking at herman cain and saying "Now that's my ni*gger talking"

anyway to respond to your post:
marriages break down because some men have not gotten the memo that traditional gender roles are no longer relevant in 2013. women are working just as much as men. yet they are expected to play tradtional roles in the home. this doesn't work. In marriages where men are more supportive and recognize the need of redefined roles, marriages are more successful. of course this is taking place, like I said, among upper middle class whites. marriage rates are going up for them. and as usual, blacks are always the last to catch up. which is ironic because black males have the least ability of any other race to be financially supportive in the family, yet they also choose to be unsupportive domestically. and u wonder why such marriages won't work.

fellis:

@bold, there is no need to get defensive my friend, I actually went through the pages of this thread but I missed the part where you said the thing about therapeutic pregnancies, I didn't ask because I want to argue.

So you have agreed that abortion can be allowed when the women is rayped and when her life is at risk if she gives birth? What about in a situation where the mother is not financially equipped to take care of the child after birth?

Also, It doesn't make any difference if you support abortion of pregnancies due to raype and if you support abortion in any circumstance or situation at all.
Your reason for opposing abortion is because you think it is murder of an innocent life, but don't you also consider abortion by rayped women as murder? Why would you support the killing of innocent children that had nothing to do with the raype or their mother's therapeutic health problems?

In the case of rap-e, my opinion is contraception within 72hrs. At that point there is no fetus, no embryo. It may take the sperm up to 24-72 hrs to move from the cervix/ uterus to the Fallopian tube where fertilization occurs. And even if fertilization occurs, the zygote is not yet defined as a human being. It has no eyes, no respiratory system, no cardiovascular system, no heart, no ears etc. so contraception can be applied at that point.

However if the woman comes after 7months for instance, and starts talking of abprtion of a product of ra.pe I won't accept that.
Same for incest by the way.

I'm sure chimamanda is a feminist for a reason. she is a successful, intelligent professional woman. she will not let any man kick her around. yet she's married at 35. which means that there are men out there (however few there are) who support gender equality. the more of those men that exist, the higher marriage rates will go.

biolabee:

The team that did the work is predominantly male trying to prove female assetions that men are to blame for hormonal effects or normal old age
In my opinion, they have strong feminist sympathies
The team behind the research
http://www.today.com/health/menopause-cause-it-may-well-be-men-scientists-say-6C10315362

http://phys.org/news/2013-06-menopause-iswait-itmen.html

In your opinion.

Nothing to proove that your opinion is right, no proof, no evidence etc. You just feel like making feminists look bad so you blame them for carrying out a false research work.

I had a lot of respect for you before today biola.

fellis:

In your opinion.

Nothing to proove that your opinion is right, no proof, no evidence etc. You just feel like making feminists look bad so you blame them for carrying out a false research work.

I had a lot of respect for you before today biola.

hahah he's the same guy who got all up in arms over being called a misogynist. yet he sees no problem associating the good name of feminism with stupid research.
irony much?

99cent:

hahaha @ your first sentence.
all I can picture is a old white male republican looking at herman cain and saying "Now that's my ni*gger talking"

anyway to respond to your post:
marriages break down because some men have not gotten the memo that traditional gender roles are no longer relevant in 2013. women are working just as much as men. yet they are expected to play tradtional roles in the home. this doesn't work. In marriages where men are more supportive and recognize the need of redefined roles, marriages are more successful. of course this is taking place, like I said, among upper middle class whites. marriage rates are going up for them. and as usual, blacks are always the least to catch up. which is ironic because black males have the least ability of any other race to be financially supportive in the family, yet they also choose to be unsupportive domestically. and u wonder why such marriage won't work.

Why is there so much racism in your post. Your posts are just here to bash black men. If you are one of them girls ladies/women/females (I don't know what will offend you there, no vex) that love to bash black men in front of their white boyfriends I wish you luck. But I though we are discussing feminism here.

You've turned the thread into something else. Black males this, whites better, blacks this. Etc

Guess what, you're black. Deal with it. Your children will also be black, deal with it. White people didnt accept Michael Jackson as one of them with all his "white skin" na you dem go accept?

Best you can be is their . . . . .

toshmann:
In the case of rap-e, my opinion is contraception within 72hrs. At that point there is no fetus, no embryo. It may take the sperm up to 24-72 hrs to move from the cervix/ uterus to the Fallopian tube where fertilization occurs. And even if fertilization occurs, the zygote is not yet defined as a human being. It has no eyes, no respiratory system, no cardiovascular system, no heart, no ears etc. so contraception can be applied at that point.

So when exactly does the unborn baby become a 'human being' that shouldn't be aborted? at what stage of gestation does that happen? two months? three? four?

However if the woman comes after 7months for instance, and starts talking of abprtion of a product of ra.pe I won't accept that.

I see. So you would rather have the woman bear a child that was a product of rape than for her to abort it? Do you even have any idea how traumatizing raising such a child would be for the woman?
What will she tell her child when he asks who his father is?
Everyday of her life when she goes out with her child, she is stigmatised because people around her know that she was rayped and they are constantly reminded of it whenever they see the child. The memory never goes away, the child acts as a lifelong reminder that the woman was molested.
Also, children borne of raype are not planned for, the mother is likely to not be financially ready to raise that child or take care of it, so what happens then?
Toshmann, are you going to provide money for the mother to care for her child because you believe that pregnacies above 7 months should not be aborted?

99cent:

hahah he's the same guy who got all up in arms over being called a misogynist. yet he sees no problem associating the good name of feminism with stupid research.
irony much?

Some men will tell any type of lie to make feminism look bad.

Shameless