Ok, why is this thread trending after such a long time?

toshmann:

Why is there so much racism in your post. Your posts are just here to bash black men. If you are one of them girls ladies/women/females (I don't know what will offend you there, no vex) that love to bash black men in front of their white boyfriends I wish you luck. But I though we are discussing feminism here.

You've turned the thread into something else. Black males this, whites better, blacks this. Etc

Guess what, you're black. Deal with it. Your children will also be black, deal with it. White people didnt accept Michael Jackson as one of them with all his "white skin" na you dem go accept?

Best you can be is their . . . . .

last time I checked, senator wendy williams was a feminist white. not black.
besides, the discussion on this topic is sort of a carryover from another tread created by a misogynist to bash black women and accuse them of raising children out of wedlock as if it was a criminal act to be a single mother. if u click on the politics forum and scroll down, u will see it.
also, black feminism is interesting in the sense that black males assume that its ok for them to be misogynistic since racism is supposedly "bigger" than sexism. therefore women should be fighting against racism for all rather than looking at the sexism in black community. many women fall for this trap hence the reason why nothing has yet been done to, for example, attack and bring down the misogynist attitudes that define what we know as "black music"
and music is just one example. sexism can be found in every single aspect of the culture.

fellis:
So when exactly does the unborn baby become a 'numan being' that shouldn't be aborted? at what stage of gestation does that happen? two months? three? four?

I don't think anybody has that answer. But there has to be a line somewhere. I know from medical school that at 8weeks the embryo forms, the heart starts forming at 5 weeks!?! (hope I still know my embryology ) so I'll rather put my line somewhere before 3 weeks. Preferably one week. 72hrs safest

I see. So you would rather have the woman bear a child that was a product of rape than for her to abort it? Do you even have any idea how traumatizing raising such a child would be for the woman?
What will she tell her child when he asks who his father is?
Everyday of her life when she goes out with her child, she is stigmatised because people around her know that she was rayped and they are constantly reminded of it whenever they see the child. The memory never goes away, the child acts as a lifelong reminder that the woman was molested.

I cannot pretend that I know exactly how the woman feels but I'm sure it ain't pretty. Now who will speak for the child? This is not a decision I take with joy. It's a hard choice between two evils;
1.destroy the life of the child or
2. Subject the woman into perpetual pain.

You know, either way it's going to be painful but I chose the lesser evil. The woman's pain can be alleviated with time. The child may grow to be a source of joy( who knows tomorow). I've seen documentary on some young adults who were products of rappe in Balkan war bonding well with their mothers. The mother may alas recieve emotional care. There are a lot of options even though I'm no expert in psychiatry or mental health I know there are options that can be tried to help the woman deal with it.
But I do know it will be painful, yes I know, I'm sympathetic. But I'm sympathetic to the child too. If the child is killed there's no remedy. Life lost. I'm pro life.

Also, children borne of raype are not planned for, the mother is likely to not be financially ready to raise that child or take care of it, so what happens then?
Toshmann, are you going to provide money for the mother to care for her child because you believe that pregnacies above 7 months should not be aborted?

The child may be given up for adoption.

Listen, rappe is a terrible situation. There's no good news when one is rapped. The best thing to do here is prevention.

But if it happens, first of all catch the criminal if we can, lock him up and throw away the keys.

Take the woman to hospital to get treatment which included STD treatment and contraception.

If that fails then we must plan to take care of the mother and child.

I don't know what else you want me to say. But PREVENTION is the key

toshmann:

The child may be given up for adoption.
Listen, rappe is a terrible situation. There's no good news when one is rapped. The best thing to do here is prevention.
But if it happens, first of all catch the criminal if we can, lock him up and throw away the keys.
Take the woman to hospital to get treatment which included STD treatment and contraception.
If that fails then we must plan to take care of the mother and child.
I don't know what else you want me to say. But PREVENTION is the key

you are male. you are not in any position whatsoever to decide or judge what a r.aped woman does to her unwanted pregnancy.
the logical thing being to get rid of it.
when u become a woman, then u can come back and comment. until then, this is not your issue or topic. why do male always feel themselves expert and authority on women issues?

if the males can't be around to even know the child's name. why should a woman suffer throughout her life to be reminded of an horror. rubbish

and then I remember that you are republican. u've sure been listening to what ur fellow republican males have to say about ra.pe:

99cent:

last time I checked, senator wendy williams was a feminist white. not black.
besides, the discussion on this topic is sort of a carryover from another tread created by a misogynist to bash black women and accuse them of raising children out of wedlock as if it was a criminal act to be a single mother. if u click on the politics forum and scroll down, u will see it.
also, black feminism is interesting in the sense that black males assume that its ok for them to be misogynistic since racism is supposedly "bigger" than sexism. therefore women should be fighting against racism for all rather than looking at the sexism in black community. many women fall for this trap hence the reason why nothing has yet been done to, for example, attack and bring down the misogynist attitudes that define what we know as "black music"
and music is just one example. sexism can be found in every single aspect of the culture.

First of all I don't know of the former thread you're talking about. It seems you have a beef with them. I regurgitated this thread which was dead by early June bc I saw my friends itsmodella and Adaobi there. Also I like chimamanda. But looks like you're on a revenge mission

Anyways, I hate it when black guys and black girls fight each other. Other races laugh. I know bc iv been with friends who take me as foriegn and say things about black Americans in front of me that they won't say in front of african Americans but they don't know that my skin color somehow generates a psychological link with african Americans.

They laugh at us when black men and women embarrass themselves online.

You guys should stop it. And I've been guilty of this too. Bc where I am, I've seen more educated black women rising up to marry white men while bashing black men and poor black women boasting of how they manhandle men. I was appalled until I started seeing what black men do to black women online too. It's a shame. We just embarrass ourselves and the whites and Indians and Asians and Latinos just sit back and laugh.

Enough!

99cent: most of the points in your comment can be argued against very easily.




first of all, why do you use the word "girl" as a point of comparison to the word "men"?
also, are men supposed to dress 'ugly'? all people, male or female, should dress neatly.
besides the emphasis that women should spend a lot of time looking good wasn't always that way. there are periods in history when men put more focus on their looks than women. in fact, men in the 16th century europe are known to wear heels and fashionable clothes and wigs. u can see the remnants of this tradition in the wigs judges wear in courts and even in renaissance oil paintings.

the point is that women should be able to decide for themselves how they want to look. In puritan societies, in fact, women are banned from wearing make-up, jewelry or looking "good". they are forced to dress very plainly and drab.
this is also a way of repressing women by enforcing societal code of dressing or appearance on them. there are many ways to repress women.
else, how would u explain that in some societies women are pressured to look good. whereas in other societies, women have to look plain. keep in mind, no rule whatsoever applies to men who can look however they want!

gender roles are social constructs (man made) NOT biological.




this is the same argument pro-rapists make. when a girl is raped, they blame it on the girl and say things like "why weren't you covering up in a burqa" or "why were you walking down the street by yourself without a chaperone" etc. the rapist or sexual abuser goes scot free in Africa and may be even praised by other males .society condones sexual exploits by males and condemns women for the same. Africa as a continent has the highest rate of sexua.l violence in the world.
when there is a government and rule of law, males that impregnate women will be forced to bear responsibility in form of child support and other means. this is enforced in western countries. that's why women can wear whatever clothes they want and there is no sexual repression for women in western countries. they are not made to feel ashamed of their sex. men are held to the same level of responsibility.
also there is such thing as condoms, birth control pills, and abortions.



why are girls under pressure to get married? again you use the word girls and men on the same level.
are we still living in a world where 50yr old men marry 15yr old girls?
also, fertility rate and sexism have high correlation just so you know. if you visit a society where women are giving birth to 4-10 kids per woman, the level of sexism and horrible treatment of women will be much higher than societies where average number of kids per woman in around 2 kids (western countries!). that says a LOT.



can you post that statistic for me to see?
and who told you men "lead" in relationships? behind closed doors, at least 50% of relationships are led by women (all things being equal ex finances) leadership is mostly a personality trait. not a gender trait. Maybe in Africa where women are repressed and forced to act "meek" but if we went by nature, leadership will show in equal rates between men and women. ex. men who show leadership seen as leaders. whereas women who show leadership seen as "bitchy"
again, sexism at play.



again, this is the pro-rapist argument you are making. a man is allowed to sit comfortably while a woman is made to assume contortions that very uncomfortable just to "protect" herself from men.
if urinating upwards is the most comfortable position for a woman to urinate. then YES women should urinate upwards. This is not about women becoming men. but about women gaining basic common sense rights that are withheld from them in sexist societies.



true. no one is asking that women become men. just challenging sexism which exists in our society.
may men don't want it. why should they? they are benefiting from the system and they will fight to protect the status quo.

Great reply. I was impressed. I had to hit the like button. #team feminism#

fellis:

In your opinion.

Nothing to proove that your opinion is right, no proof, no evidence etc. You just feel like making feminists look bad so you blame them for carrying out a false research work.

I had a lot of respect for you before today biola.

Ok

Its your call

A culture or mindset that blames one gender for all the problems in the world can never be a fair one while absolving the other of all responsibility?!
LAughable

Mark my words,,,, this research will become mainstream in 20 years

99cent: and then I remember that you are republican. u've sure been listening to what ur fellow republican males have to say about ra.pe:

This doesn't mean I agree with them. If you've been reading my posts in this thread you'll know what I feel about rappe and you won't need to bring me this chart.
Just bc I'm republican doesn't mean glen beck or Sarah Palin are my heroes.

davidylan:

I'm not sure what your point is... but it is a well-known fact that the vast majority (more than 70%) of kids born to single mothers are more likely to remain in poverty or end up with criminal records. We're not exactly blaming them for the facts now are we?

I for one i'm also tired of single-mothers totting their kids everywhere while taking food stamps, free medicaid and social security to raise children that i did not sire. Those bills are paid for by those who chose to be responsible with their own resources. I have always said that the best way to break the epidemic of single-motherhood is to remove the safety net from off their feet.

The number of baby mamas I see everyday is nauseating!!!!

toshmann:


They laugh at us when black men and women embarrass themselves online.


Enough!

When Black Feminism Faces The Music, and the Music Is Rap

At present there is only a small platform for black women to address the problems of sexism in rap and in their community. Feminist criticism, like many other forms of social analysis, is widely considered part of a hostile white culture. For a black feminist to chastise misogyny in rap publicly would be viewed as divisive and counterproductive. There is a widespread perception in the black community that public criticism of black men constitutes collaborating with a racist society.

The charge is hardly new. Such a reaction greeted Ntozake Shange's play ''For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When the Rainbow Is Enuf,'' my own essays, ''Black Macho and the Myth of the Superwoman,'' and Alice Walker's novel ''The Color Purple,'' all of which were perceived as critical of black men. After the release of the film version of ''The Color Purple,'' feminists were lambasted in the press for their supposed lack of support for black men; such critical analysis by black women has all but disappeared. In its place is ''A Black Man's Guide to the Black Woman,'' a vanity-press book by Shahrazad Ali, which has sold more than 80,000 copies by insisting that black women are neurotic, insecure and competitive with black men.

Though misogynist lyrics seem to represent the opposite of Ms. Ali's world view, these are, in fact, just two extremes on the same theme: Ms. Ali's prescription for what ails the black community is that women should not question men about their sexual philandering, and should be firmly slapped across the mouth when they do. Rap lyrics suggest just about the same: women should be silent and prone.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/29/arts/pop-view-when-black-feminism-faces-the-music-and-the-music-is-rap.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

pazienza:

Great reply. I was impressed. I had to hit the like button. #team feminism#

yay

Oahray: Ok, why is this thread trending after such a long time?

I take credit for reviving the thread. But some other peeps here jointly will take credit for making the thread a trending one

toshmann:

Now that's some feminist talking.

But even here I disagree with it. Men and women are not supposed to be competing but complementing each other.

Many marriages breakdown bc there seems to be some sort of conflict from competition within.

I'm not a feminist!

I.Joan:


I'm not a feminist!

of course you are not!! anybody can see that.
but you are the misogynists idea of what a 'feminist' should be

toshmann:

I take credit for reviving the thread. But some other peeps here jointly will take credit for making the thread a trending one

it's a carry over discussion from another thread. trust me
and i'm glad for that because that topic was getting very disgusting. at least here we have Chimamanda as an authority figure to back the feminist cause and her name is on the topic title rather than that other silly thread.

99cent:

When Black Feminism Faces The Music, and the Music Is Rap

At present there is only a small platform for black women to address the problems of sexism in rap and in their community. Feminist criticism, like many other forms of social analysis, is widely considered part of a hostile white culture. For a black feminist to chastise misogyny in rap publicly would be viewed as divisive and counterproductive. There is a widespread perception in the black community that public criticism of black men constitutes collaborating with a racist society.

The charge is hardly new. Such a reaction greeted Ntozake Shange's play ''For Colored Girls Who Have Considered Suicide When the Rainbow Is Enuf,'' my own essays, ''Black Macho and the Myth of the Superwoman,'' and Alice Walker's novel ''The Color Purple,'' all of which were perceived as critical of black men. After the release of the film version of ''The Color Purple,'' feminists were lambasted in the press for their supposed lack of support for black men; such critical analysis by black women has all but disappeared. In its place is ''A Black Man's Guide to the Black Woman,'' a vanity-press book by Shahrazad Ali, which has sold more than 80,000 copies by insisting that black women are neurotic, insecure and competitive with black men.

Though misogynist lyrics seem to represent the opposite of Ms. Ali's world view, these are, in fact, just two extremes on the same theme: Ms. Ali's prescription for what ails the black community is that women should not question men about their sexual philandering, and should be firmly slapped across the mouth when they do. Rap lyrics suggest just about the same: women should be silent and prone.

http://www.nytimes.com/1990/07/29/arts/pop-view-when-black-feminism-faces-the-music-and-the-music-is-rap.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

Why would the black race be the only ones to wash their dirty linen in public. This madness must stop. I don't want to know of the origin of this black vs black war. It is horrible. Enough!

If a black man comes out in public to eviscerate the black woman, and he is ignored, the shame will be his to feed on.
And vice versa. It's enough.
It's hard already being black in America, don't make it worse by beating up on each other.

toshmann:

I take credit for reviving the thread. But some other peeps here jointly will take credit for making the thread a trending one

99cent:

it's a carry over discussion from another thread. trust me
and i'm glad for that because that topic was getting very disgusting. at least here we have Chimamanda as an authority figure to back the feminist cause and her name is on the topic title rather than that other silly thread.

ItsModella stroll enter villa and her (thread) market start to boom... Hmmm...

toshmann: I don't think anybody has that answer. But there has to be a line somewhere. I know from medical school that at 8weeks the embryo forms, the heart starts forming at 5 weeks!?! (hope I still know my embryology ) so I'll rather put my line somewhere before 3 weeks. Preferably one week. 72hrs safest

A three week old foetus and a one week old foetus cannot even respond to stimulus or feel anything at that stage. I don't know what makes you think their very poorly developed features is what makes them full human beings that should not be killed. besides the baby is still inside the mother's womb, it is actually part of the mother's body and not an individual on its own because it depends on the mother completely for survival.

I cannot pretend that I know exactly how the woman feels but I'm sure it ain't pretty. Now who will speak for the child? This is not a decision I take with joy. It's a hard choice between two evils;
1.destroy the life of the child or
2. Subject the woman into perpetual pain.

You know, either way it's going to be painful but I chose the lesser evil. The woman's pain can be alleviated with time. The child may grow to be a source of joy( who knows tomorow). I've seen documentary on some young adults who were products of rappe in Balkan war bonding well with their mothers. The mother may alas recieve emotional care. There are a lot of options even though I'm no expert in psychiatry or mental health I know there are options that can be tried to help the woman deal with it.
But I do know it will be painful, yes I know, I'm sympathetic. But I'm sympathetic to the child too. If the child is killed there's no remedy. Life lost. I'm pro life.

@bold, I cannot believe that you think subjecting a woman to perpetual pain is actually better than aborting an unborn child. I just cannot wrap my head around your logic. We are talking of a life time of trauma here, the mother takes the child out everyday and people are reminded that she was rayped whenever they see the child, the mother has to raise a child that will be called a bastard by his peers, a child that will always feel inferior to other children because he knows he is just the product of raype that his mother never wanted or planned for.
You honestly believe that ending a pregnancy at 7 months is worse than decades of trauma and stigmatization of both mother and child?

The child may be given up for adoption.

And be raised in a neglectful environment where he lives a life of lack and low self esteem?

Listen, rappe is a terrible situation. There's no good news when one is rapped. The best thing to do here is prevention.

True, but in some situations it can't be prevented so pregnancies from raype should be aborted.

But if it happens, first of all catch the criminal if we can, lock him up and throw away the keys.
Take the woman to hospital to get treatment which included STD treatment and contraception.
If that fails then we must plan to take care of the mother and child.

Who is 'we' exactly? and what makes you so sure those people will raise the child properly in a healthy environment?

99cent:

of course you are not!! anybody can see that.
but you are the misogynists idea of what a 'feminist' should be

Do you care to explain what you mean by this?

pazienza:

Great reply. I was impressed. I had to hit the like button. #team feminism#

99cents is a feminist force to be reckoned with

Oahray:

ItsModella stroll enter villa and her (thread) market start to boom... Hmmm...

lol,she is busy in the big brother africa thread, she never know wetin dey happen for here

I.Joan:


Do you care to explain what you mean by this?

let toshman explain to you why he (an anti-feminist) called u his preferred feminist
hahaha

toshmann:

Why would the black race be the only ones to wash their dirty linen in public. This madness must stop. I don't want to know of the origin of this black vs black war. It is horrible. Enough!

If a black man comes out in public to eviscerate the black woman, and he is ignored, the shame will be his to feed on.
And vice versa. It's enough.
It's hard already being black in America, don't make it worse by beating up on each other.

In both sections of her book, Wallace focused our attention on "male privilege" and how it translated into black "macho-ness", with the resultant effect that black men are as guilty of taking for themselves unearned advantages over black women as white people are guilty of taking for themselves unearned advantages over black people. She pointed out that black women continued to nurture the race physically, emotionally, and spiritually, and that the convenience of the self-sacrificing "superwoman image" (which black women willingly accept) allowed the predominatly male leaders of the civil rights movement to discount the interests and issues of black women, much like white slaveholders did; the typical black superwoman served only as an ancillary utility for black men. Wallace revealed to the world that black women, more often than not, were still "sleeping with the enemy."

Wallace was virulently attacked by almost every black "leader" who could get herself (yes, even women) and himself heard. However, if you re-read the book today, you cannot deny the fact that she was prescient in her observations and conclusions. The problems which she identified then still exist today.

I would recommend this book as a basic text for every black women's college. It should be discussed whereever concerned black people convene.
---

hmmm I will have to read that book.
black macho and the myth of the superwoman

biolabee:


Ok

Its your call

A culture or mindset that blames one gender for all the problems in the world can never be a fair one while absolving the other of all responsibility?!
LAughable

Mark my words,,,, this research will become mainstream in 20 years

Abeg go and sit down jor, you've dissapointed me.

If I had done something like this you men will be on my neck and you be saying feminists are confused liars that falsify information because they have nothing to fight for.
I can't believe you can do something as shameful as this and not be apologetic or remorseful.

fellis:

A three week old foetus and a one week old foetus cannot even respond to stimulus or feel anything at that stage. I don't know what makes you think their very poorly developed features is what makes them full human beings that should not be killed. besides the baby is still inside the mother's womb, it is actually part of the mother's body and not an individual on its own because it depends on the mother completely for survival.

Depending on the mother for complete survival doesn't mean it's part of the mothers body. It's not. It's a separate individual with its own body systems. Their blood don't mix. Their DNA sample is different.

@bold, I cannot believe that you think subjecting a woman to perpetual pain is actually better than aborting an unborn child. I just cannot wrap my head around your logic. We are talking of a life time of trauma here, the mother takes the child out everyday and people are reminded that she was rayped whenever they see the child, the mother has to raise a child that will be called a bastard by his peers, a child that will always feel inferior to other children because he knows he is just the product of raype that his mother never wanted or planned for.
You honestly believe that ending a pregnancy at 7 months is worse than decades of trauma and stigmatization of both mother and child?

I believe both are terrible situations. But I believe human life is sacrosanct. I also believe that there is a possibility that a woman may find some peace even after a rappe child is born.

And be raised in a neglectful environment where he lives a life of lack and low self esteem?

better than loosing his life. He may also be adopted by a family and grow up in a home. There are many possibilities. I know the odds are bad but I STRONGLY believe it is better than being killed.

True, but in some situations it can't be prevented so pregnancies from raype should be aborted.

I disagree

Who is 'we' exactly?

Anybody that cares

and what makes you so sure those people will raise the child properly in a healthy environment?

We can at least try. We live in a harsh world but we must not fail to try. Nobody is sure of anything.
What makes one sure that the girl/man he/she married will be a nice partner

What makes one sure that the career one chose will work out fine

What makes one sure that things will work out fine in the college one chose to go

We can go on and on

fellis:

A three week old foetus and a one week old foetus cannot even respond to stimulus or feel anything at that stage.

Absolutely untrue. Even amoeba responds to stimulus.

fellis:

99cents is a feminist force to be reckoned with

nah, she is just a confused individual who will be regretting her stance 20 yrs from now. Feminism has done no one any good... ask Oprah will all her cash.

99cent:

I don't understand why you keep calling them 'misogynists' I went through all of their posts and I didn't see any word that expresses any hatred for the womenfolk!

I.Joan:


I don't understand why you keep calling them 'misogynists' I went through all of their posts and I didn't any word that expresses any hatred for the womenfolk!

My dear... The ad hominem is a fool's last resort... no pun intended.

I.Joan:


I don't understand why you keep calling them 'misogynists' I went through all of their posts and I didn't any word that expresses any hatred for the womenfolk!

you know female misogynists exist as well right?
there is a book called uncle tom's cabin that told of the story of a black slave who was so loyal to his master as to be willing to lay his life down.

if you do not want to see women succeed in society. I don't know what to call u except a misogynist. that's my opinion. I am not expecting you to agree with it.

Smh