Bélla3: Lately i have been doing alot of thinking because of this question: 'how can God give freewill, at thesame time be omnipotent (ie be know all things- past, present and future)?'


*trolls not invited*

Bélla3: Lately i have been doing alot of thinking because of this question: 'how can God give freewill, at thesame time be omnipotent (ie be know all things- past, present and future)?'


*trolls not invited*

Logicboy03:


God knows everything- God is omniscient
God knows everything- God knows the future
God knows that tommorrow Mr, A will eat chocolate ice-cream from an ice cream vendor

Analysing what then happens the next day;

-Mr A goes to the ice-cream vendor ponders what flavour to eat bewteen vanilla, lemon and chocolate. He buys chocolate ice-cream
a) MR A. could not have chosen vanilla flavour because God would have been wrong and therefore God didnt know the future and therefore God is no longer omniscient
b) MR A. actually did not "choose" chocolate flavour. His choice was an illusion. All he did was follow God's foreseen path. Mr A had no freewill in deciding his ice-cream. Choice doesnt exist where there is no alternative

musKeeto:
I think the word you're looking for is 'omniscient'...
and this thread,well, make of it what you will...

https://www.nairaland.com/1254148/why-idea-god-fraud

Logicboy03: https://www.nairaland.com/1198534/cowardice-atheism/61#14676165

ifeness:

Nice thoughts. Every individual is a self-aware, self-reflective, free-will entity. Free will is not given to you,you own it! Aint you a goddess yourself?

Bélla3: i beleive there are instances where humans dont have total free will.

Bélla3: Lately i have been doing alot of thinking because of this question: 'how can God give freewill, at thesame time be omniscient (ie be know all things- past, present and future)?'


*trolls not invited*

Pastor Olu T:

Bella good day,

The first thing to clarify about God omniscience is that knowing all things is not the same as influencing it, many at times when we talk about God' omniscience we think of Him influencing our actions. He knows all things because He is God, though we can not fully comprehend this but we sure know from experience that we are the architect of our choice.

God gave each of us freewill and with it comes consequences, whatever we decide to do with our freewill is our choice but we should be ready to eat the fruit and God will not change it for anyone for He is a respecter of none and have no favorite. But in Christ Jesus all our past is gone and all consequence is done away with.

How do you even know what He knows about you before doing what you did? Many gives the excuse that since He knows all this about me, He knows i will be this bad so why change, this only makes us more accountable because we deliberately did what we did under the cloak that we technically do not have a choice.

Stay blessed and remain rapturable

frank3.16:


why did u ignore my questions in the other thread... u better answer cos i willl never let u escape

Bélla3: thanks,
well edited.
The thread was very long and the title highly offensive. I'd realy appreciate christians advising a 'confused sister'

Pastor Olu T:

Bella good day,

The first thing to clarify about God omniscience is that knowing all things is not the same as influencing it, many at times when we talk about God' omniscience we think of Him influencing our actions. He knows all things because He is God, though we can not fully comprehend this but we sure know from experience that we are the architect of our choice.

God gave each of us freewill and with it comes consequences, whatever we decide to do with our freewill is our choice but we should be ready to eat the fruit and God will not change it for anyone for He is a respecter of none and have no favorite. But in Christ Jesus all our past is gone and all consequence is done away with.

How do you even know what He knows about you before doing what you did? Many gives the excuse that since He knows all this about me, He knows i will be this bad so why change, this only makes us more accountable because we deliberately did what we did under the cloak that we technically do not have a choice.

Stay blessed and remain rapturable

Pastor Olu T:

And there is great hope for you in what if i may ask?

Bélla3: thanks,
I'd realy appreciate christians advising a 'confused sister'

Logicboy03:


Someone is going to have a real long wait

Bélla3: Lately i have been doing alot of thinking because of this question: 'how can God give freewill, at thesame time be omniscient (ie be know all things- past, present and future)?'


*trolls not invited*

JeSoul:

ttalks, you're muddying the waters a lil bit here brotha. Lets look at Rom 9 in total context shall we?

---

14What then shall we say? Is God unjust? Not at all! 15For he says to Moses,
"I will have mercy on whom I have mercy,
and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion." 16It does not, therefore, depend on man's desire or effort, but on God's mercy. 17For the Scripture says to Pharaoh: "I raised you up for this very purpose, that I might display my power in you and that my name might be proclaimed in all the earth." 18Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.

19One of you will say to me: "Then why does God still blame us? For who resists his will?" 20But who are you, O man, to talk back to God? "Shall what is formed say to him who formed it, 'Why did you make me like this?' " 21Does not the potter have the right to make out of the same lump of clay some pottery for noble purposes and some for common use?

22What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath—prepared for destruction? 23What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory— 24even us, whom he also called, not only from the Jews but also from the Gentiles?

---

I daresay this portion of scripture is not talking about God controlling our wills - it is saying God's ultimate will/purpose will be done regardless! and there's nothing man can do to stop or resist it. This is very different from saying He controls or determines our will. I hope you see this subtle but very important distinction.

and if you don't, how do you explain these verses in scripture?
John 7:17
If anyone chooses to do God's will, he will find out whether my teaching comes from God or whether I speak on my own.

Mk 3:35 Whoever does God's will is my brother and sister and mother

there could not be a clearer portion of scripture that shows we do have a choice whether or not to do the will of God. Which is why this next quote from you is extremely problematic:
So in essence your position is we never have a choice? we are simply pawns in God's supernatural chess game who really have no say in determining anything about the course of our lives?

We agree God's purpose and ultimate will will always be accomplished no matter what, but where we differ is how this purpose gets accomplished. You say he determines our will and in essence our choices, I say He works within the choices that we make because He has foreknowledge of what we will do - and uses this to bring about His will and purpose. Does He influence our wills sometimes? absolutely! does He ever determine it? I don't think that is biblically accurate.

striktlymi:

Do you want my binoculars? Can't you see that she has gotten the response she requested for?

Logicboy03:

She got sophistry not a valid response

striktlymi:

Hmmm...that's what you call it but it will do I hope...


Anyways, she has another one from Jesoul

Ihedinobi: Hi Bella3

Um, quite a question you have there. I hope the "skepticism" of the unbelievers is not getting to you. Even if it is, the Lord is more than able to keep them that have trusted in Him.

This question of omniscience versus free will is a funny kind. It sounds legitimate and real but nobody has proven it to be an honest question, at least, not on this forum.

So I'll say first of all that even if God made His Creation deterministic by nature or semi-deterministic, He's got every right in the book to do so. After all, it's His Creation.

Second, the answer to your question, dear sis, is that God is not at all subject to time. In His reality, He does not have to look forward to a future or backward to a past. He commands time. Thus, He sees everything happening at all times as though it were all happening at once. He knows what decisions you will make in your future because He is watching you make them in the future at the very same time that you make them. So He does not "predict" the future as we would, rather, He witnesses it.

Ihedinobi: Good response, JeSoul. I was in transit and making my own post or else I would have seen it sooner and perhaps held my peace.

Logicboy03:



Jesoul's post was an abuse of common sense.....she was never a good debater

striktlymi:

...and here comes Ihedinobi,

Someone must be shyting in his pants...

Logicboy03:


smh

alfaman3:

I don't need hope. Only the afflicted need hope.

Bélla3: I guess i need prayers coz am entirely lost here.
Are you trying to say that God knows the future, bt at the same time isnt sure it'll come to pass? I dont know how an author can know how a story will end, at thesame time gives his characters freewill.
If God is omiscient, then he knows those destinied for hell.
I guess this isnt something you understand by mere common sense. Is there a particular verse that says God is omniscient? Thanks for all the humble replies, very much appreciated.