If we do a comparison of texts and Bible translations, it should be easy to discern what hell is.

Ps 19:7: The wicked do turn back to [/b]Sheol[b], all nations forgetting God.- Young's Literal translation.

Ps 19:7: The wicked shall be turned into [/b]hell[b], And all the nations that forget God.- KJV

Ps 19:7: The wicked will go down into [/b]the grave[b] This is the fate of all the nations who ignore God - New Living Translation

Ps 19:7: The sinful, all the nations that forget God, will be turned into [/b]the grave[b].- New Life Version

Conclusion? Hell = Sheol = Grave

Another scripture to be compared: [/b]Revelation 20:13.[b]

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and [/b]hell[b] delivered up the dead which were in them : and they were judged each man according to their works. KJV

The sea gave up it's dead, and death and [/b]the grave[b] gave up their dead. And they were judged according to their deeds. - New Living Translation

And the sea gave up those dead in it, and death and [/b]Hades[b] did give up the dead in them, and they were judged each one according to their works.- Young's Literal Translation.

Conclusion: Hell= Hades=Grave

Tpfkakambo:

A christian one who has accepted christ Has d Spirit of Chrst in him,specifcally in his spirit,so a christian isnt going to b alive at a future date but alredy has Life in Him already, romns8:11 "if d spirit of Him who raised Jesus frm d dead is livg in u,he wu raised Christ frm d dead will give life to your mortal bodies thru his Spirit, who lives in u" .

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
"As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and when this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." (1 Corinthians 15:40-54).
..............................

Learn to read and study the bible well befor believing Satanic deceit.

truthislight:

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
"As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and when this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." (1 Corinthians 15:40-54).
..............................

Learn to read and study the bible well befor believing Satanic deceit.

Watch him wiggle out of this one. No matter the exposition given, they will still find a way to justify their ignorant pride.

truthislight:

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
"As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and when this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." (1 Corinthians 15:40-54).
..............................

Learn to read and study the bible well befor believing Satanic deceit.

satanic deceit-- ever learning ever researching but never ever able to come to d knowledge of truth.
if you read 1Thes5v23 and still come away with the conclusion that u aint spirit u have serious denail issues.

even basic logic tells you that that verse lists 3 separate things.
if you read the story of the rich man and lazarus and come away that it is a parable u get thnking paralysis..
jokers.. i gave my concluding verses to you..
and you ignored it..
continue with ur satanic delusion about "soul sleep"..


i'll address any thing you throw up but address those i confront you with.
like the verses i give in my previous post.

truthislight:

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
"As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and when this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." (1 Corinthians 15:40-54).
..............................

Learn to read and study the bible well befor believing Satanic deceit.

This verses quoted says nothing about the issue of this thread..
Hell is real, the dead go to hell if they dont accept christ
and the dead in christ go to heaven..
You've made no point..
Address my last post in the lines of the verses i quoted..
at least if you'll be honest you've seen from these posts that Man is a spirit!!!.

truthislight:

"There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory. So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption: It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power: It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body. And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit. Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual. The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
"As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly. And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly. Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption. Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and when this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory." (1 Corinthians 15:40-54).
..............................

Learn to read and study the bible well befor believing Satanic deceit.

Let me help you out.. it seems the bible is like a ball of wool and ur a kitten u keep getting tangled up when u open scriptures to understand..

The body isnt saved:
find this verse : "if any man be in christ he is a new creature old things are past away behold all things are become new"
"present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto the lord who is your reasonable service"

The body isnt saved, the mind/soul isnt saved.. only the spirit receives the life of God in it - by the HOLY SPIRIT COMING to make his home in it . (see romans8).

But Salvation is a total package that will one day affect the spirit,soul,body.
Since a christians spirit is saved, and has the nature of God in it-
The Christian's spirit is a faithful guide and wants to do right-but the christians body wants to do wrong
leading to the battles raging in every christians .. see Galatians 5 ..
The christian life therefor entails working in the Spirit (romans 8 v1,galatians 5.)
God is in the Christians spirit and the spirit man has the grace of God (Galatians 6 v18)..
(please read these verses for yourself -- even though u ar wishing for the soul sleep thing..)
Christians/all truely saved people await the redemption the saving of their BODIES (Romans 8 vs 23 c).
if the human body were saved - then they'd be no more death for the christian - i.e physical death..
but that isnt the case.

The human body is also called the "outward man" - think. if there's an outward man,then there's an inward man - your spirit . and the outward man is dying.. (2cor4:16).
that's Y even born again chrstians are subject to aging .. its death of the body..
But the spirit man,the inward man doesnt die...

in light of these you can understand the verses you quoted:

"there are celestial bodies and terrestial..." .
this is a comparison.. used to make the points of the chapter by the writer..
it doesnt say the human body when resurrected will b celestial ..

"the resurrection of the dead . it is shown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption.."
can't us see this is about the resurrection of the human body.it is sown in weakness - the outward man dies daily-
but it will be raised in strength - never to die ,decay rot..
the house of the spirit will b saved. with the expectation of the hopes of the christian in romans 8:23c.
infact, paul says, the christian has been given a part payment of his hope,the gift of the Holy spirit!
so the presence of the Holy spirit in Man's spirit is proof of the promise that his body will one day be
saved!!.
again read romans 8:23.

" it is sown in corruption it is raised in incorruption"
stop to think. which part of man is sown in incorruption - of spirit,soul,body 1thes5:23.
cuz the spirit of man is savd already, and according to 2cor4:16,the inward man,the spirit is not die (corrupting)..
it is his body! not his spirit..
the rest of the verse goes on to show the kind of body man will have wen raised up ..
its the kind of body Jesus had when he resurrected - can work thru walls etc.. an amazing body.. nothing like
the earthly body b4.
this is like planting a seed in the ground,the seed dies but a new seed is raised up.

"flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God"- again debunking the myth your ilks believe that man isnt a spirit..
heaven is a spiritual place not like some earthly location hence it is not accesible by mere human beings ,ordinarily.

"we shall not all sleep..."
this is an euphemism for death . same as we shall not all die..
Not all christians will taste death.
i mean physical death.
for those alive when Jesus returns,they shall be physically trnsformed, romans 8:23c, then raptured to meet Jesus in the air.
This verse agrees with the previous verses i quoted : 1thes4:13

"but we shall all be changed! " - what part of us will be changed? not the spirit that is born again?
but the body - which is carnal and subject to decay.. this carnal body cannot enter the kingdom of heaven evn
though the spirit is saved,so to enter heaven it will b 'changed' in the 'twinkling of an eye'
thereby completing almost all of the salvation package - the saving of the spirit,soul and body.

"so when this corruptible has put on incorruption..."
Again,talking of the transformation of the human body of the saved person, when Jesus comes,
"and when this mortality has put on immortality .."

Again, like i pointd out earlier, this refers to the human body, because,the spirit of man is already a new creature -
(has eternal life)
besides, the human spirit is by nature immortal -whether man is saved or not - but his body is not hence is body
which is dead because of sin (romans 8 v 10a) ,
2cor4:16, is mortal, even after a person bcomes born again.
But God's plan is the salvation of all the human elements spirit,soul,body.
and at the coming of Christ,the human body will put on immortality - not his spirit!.

When this happens, then , believers will have a real laff in the face of death..
the human body was subject to death,even though man was born again - spirit had God life in it -
yet their body didnt and was subject to death.
But when saved man puts on his transformed body he'll laff death and mock it , death will
then have absolutely no power of over saved man - leading to the taunt - "where,o death , is your sting,
where o grave is your victory!!!" 1 cor15:55..

This does not in anyway contradict the casting of death into the lake of fire in revelations..
so dont get confused..
this means death's power is broken over saved man's body..
the verses of 1cor15. Dont relate to ALL men as you're trying to imply but to saved man..

Not that these verses relate to the rapture and not the resurrection of the tribulation saints or the sinner dead!!
dont mix them up.
after the rapture comes the tribulation,reign of anti christ, and then the intervention of Jesus,
1000 year or so millenial reign,binding of satan in the bottom less pit ,
reign of saints for that period, release of satan,
fir from heaven against the revolters,
casting of satan,anti christ,false prophet into lake of fire,
casting of hell death into lake of fire
and then the resurrection of the dead, sinners, trib saints, separation of sheep from goats,
and casting of all whose names arent found in the book of life into lake of fire..
nothing like soul sleep.
"hell will also give up its dead!!" - if there was soul sleep,
they'd be no souls in hell.
if there was soul sleep,the rich man in the story of lazarus wudnt be in hell, and lazarus wudnt be carried
by angels anywhere?
and they'd be no saints returng with Jesus, when the trumpet sounds... it would be only Jesus and angels.


Your opinion outstides of scriptures is irrelevant. ther's nothing like the satanic lie "soul sleep".

kambo:

satanic deceit-- ever learning ever researching but never ever able to come to d knowledge of truth.
if you read 1Thes5v23 and still come away with the conclusion that u aint spirit u have serious denail issues.

even basic logic tells you that that verse lists 3 separate things.
if you read the story of the rich man and lazarus and come away that it is a parable u get thnking paralysis..
jokers.. i gave my concluding verses to you..
and you ignored it..
continue with ur satanic delusion about "soul sleep"..


i'll address any thing you throw up but address those i confront you with.
like the verses i give in my previous post.

Your word and that of the bible, which should i take ?

Smh.

kambo:

Let me help you out.. it seems the bible is like a ball of wool and ur a kitten u keep getting tangled up when u open scriptures to understand..

The body isnt saved:
find this verse : "if any man be in christ he is a new creature old things are past away behold all things are become new"
"present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable unto the lord who is your reasonable service"

The body isnt saved, the mind/soul isnt saved.. only the spirit receives the life of God in it - by the HOLY SPIRIT COMING to make his home in it . (see romans8).

But Salvation is a total package that will one day affect the spirit,soul,body.
Since a christians spirit is saved, and has the nature of God in it-
The Christian's spirit is a faithful guide and wants to do right-but the christians body wants to do wrong
leading to the battles raging in every christians .. see Galatians 5 ..
The christian life therefor entails working in the Spirit (romans 8 v1,galatians 5.)
God is in the Christians spirit and the spirit man has the grace of God (Galatians 6 v18)..
(please read these verses for yourself -- even though u ar wishing for the soul sleep thing..)
Christians/all truely saved people await the redemption the saving of their BODIES (Romans 8 vs 23 c).
if the human body were saved - then they'd be no more death for the christian - i.e physical death..
but that isnt the case.

The human body is also called the "outward man" - think. if there's an outward man,then there's an inward man - your spirit . and the outward man is dying.. (2cor4:16).
that's Y even born again chrstians are subject to aging .. its death of the body..
But the spirit man,the inward man doesnt die...

in light of these you can understand the verses you quoted:

"there are celestial bodies and terrestial..." .
this is a comparison.. used to make the points of the chapter by the writer..
it doesnt say the human body when resurrected will b celestial ..

"the resurrection of the dead . it is shown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption.."
can't us see this is about the resurrection of the human body.it is sown in weakness - the outward man dies daily-
but it will be raised in strength - never to die ,decay rot..
the house of the spirit will b saved. with the expectation of the hopes of the christian in romans 8:23c.
infact, paul says, the christian has been given a part payment of his hope,the gift of the Holy spirit!
so the presence of the Holy spirit in Man's spirit is proof of the promise that his body will one day be
saved!!.
again read romans 8:23.

" it is sown in corruption it is raised in incorruption"
stop to think. which part of man is sown in incorruption - of spirit,soul,body 1thes5:23.
cuz the spirit of man is savd already, and according to 2cor4:16,the inward man,the spirit is not die (corrupting)..
it is his body! not his spirit..
the rest of the verse goes on to show the kind of body man will have wen raised up ..
its the kind of body Jesus had when he resurrected - can work thru walls etc.. an amazing body.. nothing like
the earthly body b4.
this is like planting a seed in the ground,the seed dies but a new seed is raised up.

"flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God"- again debunking the myth your ilks believe that man isnt a spirit..
heaven is a spiritual place not like some earthly location hence it is not accesible by mere human beings ,ordinarily.

"we shall not all sleep..."
this is an euphemism for death . same as we shall not all die..
Not all christians will taste death.
i mean physical death.
for those alive when Jesus returns,they shall be physically trnsformed, romans 8:23c, then raptured to meet Jesus in the air.
This verse agrees with the previous verses i quoted : 1thes4:13

"but we shall all be changed! " - what part of us will be changed? not the spirit that is born again?
but the body - which is carnal and subject to decay.. this carnal body cannot enter the kingdom of heaven evn
though the spirit is saved,so to enter heaven it will b 'changed' in the 'twinkling of an eye'
thereby completing almost all of the salvation package - the saving of the spirit,soul and body.

"so when this corruptible has put on incorruption..."
Again,talking of the transformation of the human body of the saved person, when Jesus comes,
"and when this mortality has put on immortality .."

Again, like i pointd out earlier, this refers to the human body, because,the spirit of man is already a new creature -
(has eternal life)
besides, the human spirit is by nature immortal -whether man is saved or not - but his body is not hence is body
which is dead because of sin (romans 8 v 10a) ,
2cor4:16, is mortal, even after a person bcomes born again.
But God's plan is the salvation of all the human elements spirit,soul,body.
and at the coming of Christ,the human body will put on immortality - not his spirit!.

When this happens, then , believers will have a real laff in the face of death..
the human body was subject to death,even though man was born again - spirit had God life in it -
yet their body didnt and was subject to death.
But when saved man puts on his transformed body he'll laff death and mock it , death will
then have absolutely no power of over saved man - leading to the taunt - "where,o death , is your sting,
where o grave is your victory!!!" 1 cor15:55..

This does not in anyway contradict the casting of death into the lake of fire in revelations..
so dont get confused..
this means death's power is broken over saved man's body..
the verses of 1cor15. Dont relate to ALL men as you're trying to imply but to saved man..

Not that these verses relate to the rapture and not the resurrection of the tribulation saints or the sinner dead!!
dont mix them up.
after the rapture comes the tribulation,reign of anti christ, and then the intervention of Jesus,
1000 year or so millenial reign,binding of satan in the bottom less pit ,
reign of saints for that period, release of satan,
fir from heaven against the revolters,
casting of satan,anti christ,false prophet into lake of fire,
casting of hell death into lake of fire
and then the resurrection of the dead, sinners, trib saints, separation of sheep from goats,
and casting of all whose names arent found in the book of life into lake of fire..
nothing like soul sleep.
"hell will also give up its dead!!" - if there was soul sleep,
they'd be no souls in hell.
if there was soul sleep,the rich man in the story of lazarus wudnt be in hell, and lazarus wudnt be carried
by angels anywhere?
and they'd be no saints returng with Jesus, when the trumpet sounds... it would be only Jesus and angels.


Your opinion outstides of scriptures is irrelevant. ther's nothing like the satanic lie "soul sleep".

Like you can see, i did not fight scriptures but had rather let it stand.

Keep fighting the BIBLE.

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalm 115:17).

truthislight:

Like you can see, i did not fight scriptures but had rather let it stand.

Keep fighting the BIBLE.

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalm 115:17).

Nice quote.

Tpfkakambo:

u wsh there is no eternal punishment or everlastg fire.
Old desire...but whichever way u try to shoe horn d scriptures to suite u.. Always gonna b contradcted.
Evry person who's had a genuine afterlife xperience further shatters ur annihilation myth to smitterings.
U wsh d lazarus rchmn story were a parable. U really wsh. U wsh man were only flesh only? But even wen shwn man is tri partite 1thes5 ,u choose ur biases . Wen shown frm scriptures dat Hell gave up d dead in it , (how did they get there?), u dodge the point. U really need , not an education, but to choose whether 2 believe d bible or ur sectarian doctrine. U cud go ahead and strt a diff sect based on ur warped beliefs. U wnt b d frst.

There is eternal punishment:

(Revelation 20:10) And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever..............(15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

It's rather futile to argue with JW, i think they have their own bible.

Bidam: It's rather futile to argue with JW, i think they have their own bible.

they had a moderate translation of the greek and hebrew books and called it the NWT unlike KJV and some others translated through the eyes of traditions.

Bidam: It's rather futile to argue with JW, i think they have their own bible.

It's also futile to argue with Pentecostals , they are men followers !

frosbel:

Just because you label something with the JW tag does not make it false, especially seeing that they are more able to a certain extent , to decipher biblical truths than the millions of mushroom churches littering the country.

Problem with cults in Nigeria is , pride is preventing their self appointed leaders from coming out of the mire and filth of fraudulent doctrines, you only need to observe the wicked and evil fruit produced from these doctrines and cults , to know that there is something dangerously wrong with their system of theology.

Frosbel, you're so freaking right. The reason why we cannot make sense to the Jehovah's witnesses is this, in essence, they make more sense than us. Our churches don't know jack, just tithes and more tithes. They preach crap like mansiopns in heaven and all what's not! How is that different to those going to heaven for 72 virgins? The lake of fire was meant for the destruction of man and not for torment. The immortality of the soul of the fallen man is not taught in the bible and was got from Pagan religions. Christ was the one who brought life and immortality to light through the gospel. I talk to JW and I am actually spurred more to intellectual talks I have with them much more than the arguments of keeping the laws of Moses as a prerequisite to salvation I find littering this forum. Great work our Pastors have done scaring the people of God with eternal torment! And please, nobody should give me that crap of people who have gone to hell. If someone sincerely dies and sees Sango as the way, would you believe? To the Law and the Prophet, if they do not testify of me, it means there is no light in them!

frosbel:

actually I took my own advice and did the research, my conclusion is either God or an angel he sent carried out this sentence. You are right on this count, thanks for the enlightenment , I humbly accept your correction.

However this does not buttress your overall contribution to this topic.

God will destroy sinners not torment them for eons, the bible does not support this fallacy.

Frosbel, I do not think he's right. The understanding and perception of God in the Old Testament. God is a life giving spirit, he is absolute light, no darkness at all, He is not tempted by evil. When peeps say our God does evil, that must be Allah, not the Living God. It was the angel of death that did this as enlightened by Paul in Hebrews 11, but "everything" is done by God as far as the Old Testament guys were concerned. God cannot subject man to eternal torment. In his mercy, he didn't allow us eat from the tree of life and leave forever in an unredeemable state, else, man would have had to suffer eternal torment. But Paul tells us that God's raging fire will CONSUME the enemies of God, not torture!

alexleo:

My dear this agents of satan are twisting the bible. They stu.pidly quote the scriptures and give it satanic interpretation. See how one of their agents said that Elijah didn't actually ascend into heaven just because the place I quoted destroyed his evil plan of trying to manipulate the scripture he quoted to drive his devilish teaching. He explained the heaven Elijah was taken to as just the sky where plane and birds fly. Very deperate and shameless people. Heaven has suddenly had several interpretations same way they interpreted hell because their idiotic teaching must be propagated. Hopeless beings.

I really don't see it as mature and you walking in love when you sound like this. Your writings are quoted with so much anger and hate, and it is not necessary. Love is the way to go. Religion is one of our biggest problems in Nigeria. We insult people of blowing themselves up for 72 virgins but we are waiting for heavenly mansions, are we not worse? Relax! When people make seemingly opposing points from the same bible, the one who thinks he has the generally accepted belief starts to scream fowl play. Jesus was right. NO MAN EVER ENTERED INTO HEAVEN BEFORE HIM. They couldn't have. Their spirits were not redeemed, neither did they have glorious bodies. I know how you feel. When I was first thought righteousness by faith apart from works I was very sad. I had believed a lie all my life. Over a hundred scriptures in the bible talk about the death, destruction, consumption of man etc, but it's easier to hold on to RCCG and Deeper life's beliefs that man possesses an immortal spirit (which has no biblical support) and that that spirit will be tormented forever which you support by the parable of Jesus. The second twisted teaching is that the wages of sin is death...death doesn't really mean death, death means eternal torture in hell. These things you put up, relax, study God's Word, light will shine. Religion was made to manipulate people, and unfortunately, what Christ came to do was not to give one more tool of manipulation, but standardized institutions have made it so, closing our eyes to what they don't want us to see and making us study the bible with a guided tour. Please get a bible and read one. You have only ONE teacher, and he is the Holy Spirit!

frosbel: ^^^

Thanks for your response.

The lake of fire is not for eternal torment but for eternal destruction, read 2 Peter 3:7. It is no small matter to stand before Jesus Christ and then to be judged and hear the words 'depart from me into everlasting fire '. To know that one will be punished and destroyed with no hope of redemption or salvation , especially knowing that there was ample opportunity to lay hold of eternal life , will be very horrible to contemplate.

Let me ask you a question, can God punish the wicked for their crimes with ten times worse tortures than these wretches imposed on their victims, not for a short period but for eternity ? What does that make God out to be ? Torturing sinners for their wicked and evil ways with endless agony and suffering, be honest , does this not sound more like a malignment of God's character from the father of all lies ?

God has no purpose to keep an everlasting Auswitch , he will simply rid this world of all evil and make it new again.

confusion! First paragraph you agree to lake of fire and everlasting fire then you turn around to say Torture in the everlasting fire paints God in a bad light by the father of lies This to me is confusion. Are then saying Christ who said depart to everlasting fire to sinners does not know what He is doing? SMH

The Bible is not very consistent on whether people go to heaven after death or go to hell: does hell exist?

No, everyone goes to heaven after they die.

For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. 1 Corinthians 15:22
We trust in the living God, who is the Saviour of all men, specially of those that believe. 1 Timothy 4:10
He is the propitiation for our sins: and not for our's only, but also for the sins of the whole world. 1 John 2:2


No, those that don't go to heaven, just die.

The LORD shall blot out his name from under heaven. Deuteronomy 29:20
The ungodly ... are like the chaff which the wind driveth away. ... The ungodly shall perish. Psalm 1:4-6
The face of the LORD is against them that do evil, to cut off the remembrance of them from the earth. Psalm 34:16
Fret not thyself because of evildoers.... For they shall soon be cut down like the grass, and wither as the green herb. Psalm 37:1-2
The wicked shall perish. Psalm 37:20

Yes, God tortures some people forever after they die.

And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt. Daniel 12:2
Such things as these the sinners said in hell. Wisdom 5:14
The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; And shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:41-42
If thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. Matthew 18:8-9

My personal comment:

Which version in the Bible are we supposed to take when it comes to the issue of hell? For me I would rather believe that everyone goes to heaven but Revelation Chapter 7 and 14 has made it clear that only 144,000 Male Jewish Virgins have been "sealed" for heaven making it seem like many people's fate have been "sealed" to life outside heaven.

Where would that life be? I hope no God would like to torture the people he created eternally thereby decreeing infinite punishment for finite sins. This would simply be unjust and I hope a rational God would be more intelligent than a vengeful and vindictive being. For me the macabre torment of people roasting in hell would be too much for a just God to conjecture and enforce.

It is pertinent to mention that the Old Testament did not mention hell. Hell only reared its ugly head in the New Testament . I am not sure the significance of this fact but it is rather comforting to me because Old Testament is actually the law.

Typical jw crap as usual. One lie leads to other lies.
To begin with y is it debatable tht man is eternal? Wen God created man did He intend to make man a temporary being? Only death shortened man's earth stay and death wasnt Gods plan so man was desgned frm the onset to live forever.
The wages of sin is death, but in their warped minds som are interpretg it as physcal death and cessation. Again, the bible contradcts such thnkg- it says the physcal death is spirit separatg frm body. If other spirit beings ar eternal y not man?

kambo: Typical jw crap as usual. One lie leads to other lies.
To begin with y is it debatable tht man is eternal? Wen God created man did He intend to make man a temporary being? Only death shortened man's earth stay and death wasnt Gods plan so man was desgned frm the onset to live forever.
The wages of sin is death, but in their warped minds som are interpretg it as physcal death and cessation. Again, the bible contradcts such thnkg- it says the physcal death is spirit separatg frm body. If other spirit beings ar eternal y not man?

So if the spirit separates from the body at death, what happens to the soul ?

Thanks.

frosbel:


So if the spirit separates from the body at death, what happens to the soul ?

Thanks.

Frosbel, we need to talk. You're doing a great work here, howbeit, knowledge needs to be balanced with love. It is hard for people to see what you're saying especially when most of us have been taught by Men (of God) and not by the God of those Men. You've punctured the heart of the notion that Man is a spirit, he has a soul and he lives in a body. I searched through scriptures and I saw that if that lie is debunked, then many other things like the false immortality of man (which people don't understand is a gift from Christ who brought it to light by the gospel) amidst many other teachings will crumble. Ecclesiastes 12:7 says that ALL Spirits return to God at death...Genesis 2...man became a living soul...and hundreds of other scriptures that debunk the immortality of the soul of man (outside Christ) and the fact that man is a spirit. Deception will soon be over in churches, I see more light coming in and people breaking lose from the yoke of bondage.

I respect Joseph Prince so much, but listening to his teaching on tithing, I could not help but cry. I'm certain he must have wondered why people believed him. It was saddening. Most grace teachers that want to still teach tithing always get choked in between their messages. They know it for sure. It finds no place in the gospel of Christ.

One thing is certain. I fought hard against peeps that tried to teach me that righteousness was by faith apart from the deeds of the law. I had actually not studied, but I wanted to argue. Indeed, when I wanted to start studying, I was looking for parts of the bible to support my arguments, not to learn, and Oh, I found. But the Holy Spirit revealed truth to me. Very soon, many will start to study the bible with the mindset of the nature of God, which is love, and do away with eternal torment for the soul of Man!

ikemofepo:

Frosbel, we need to talk. You're doing a great work here, howbeit, knowledge needs to be balanced with love. It is hard for people to see what you're saying especially when most of us have been taught by Men (of God) and not by the God of those Men. You've punctured the heart of the notion that Man is a spirit, he has a soul and he lives in a body. I searched through scriptures and I saw that if that lie is debunked, then many other things like the false immortality of man (which people don't understand is a gift from Christ who brought it to light by the gospel) amidst many other teachings will crumble. Ecclesiastes 12:7 says that ALL Spirits return to God at death...Genesis 2...man became a living soul...and hundreds of other scriptures that debunk the immortality of the soul of man (outside Christ) and the fact that man is a spirit. Deception will soon be over in churches, I see more light coming in and people breaking lose from the yoke of bondage.

I respect Joseph Prince so much, but listening to his teaching on tithing, I could not help but cry. I'm certain he must have wondered why people believed him. It was saddening. Most grace teachers that want to still teach tithing always get choked in between their messages. They know it for sure. It finds no place in the gospel of Christ.

One thing is certain. I fought hard against peeps that tried to teach me that righteousness was by faith apart from the deeds of the law. I had actually not studied, but I wanted to argue. Indeed, when I wanted to start studying, I was looking for parts of the bible to support my arguments, not to learn, and Oh, I found. But the Holy Spirit revealed truth to me. Very soon, many will start to study the bible with the mindset of the nature of God, which is love, and do away with eternal torment for the soul of Man!

Thank you brother.

Be careful of Joseph Prince.

frosbel:

Thank you brother.

Be careful of Joseph Prince.

ikemofepo:

Frosbel, we need to talk. You're doing a great work here, howbeit, knowledge needs to be balanced with love. It is hard for people to see what you're saying especially when most of us have been taught by Men (of God) and not by the God of those Men. You've punctured the heart of the notion that Man is a spirit, he has a soul and he lives in a body. I searched through scriptures and I saw that if that lie is debunked, then many other things like the false immortality of man (which people don't understand is a gift from Christ who brought it to light by the gospel) amidst many other teachings will crumble. Ecclesiastes 12:7 says that ALL Spirits return to God at death...Genesis 2...man became a living soul...and hundreds of other scriptures that debunk the immortality of the soul of man (outside Christ) and the fact that man is a spirit. Deception will soon be over in churches, I see more light coming in and people breaking lose from the yoke of bondage.

I respect Joseph Prince so much, but listening to his teaching on tithing, I could not help but cry. I'm certain he must have wondered why people believed him. It was saddening. Most grace teachers that want to still teach tithing always get choked in between their messages. They know it for sure. It finds no place in the gospel of Christ.

One thing is certain. I fought hard against peeps that tried to teach me that righteousness was by faith apart from the deeds of the law. I had actually not studied, but I wanted to argue. Indeed, when I wanted to start studying, I was looking for parts of the bible to support my arguments, not to learn, and Oh, I found. But the Holy Spirit revealed truth to me. Very soon, many will start to study the bible with the mindset of the nature of God, which is love, and do away with eternal torment for the soul of Man!

^^^ on red

frosbel:

Thank you brother.

God knows those that are His!

@frosbel, The Bible spoke of your kind in thelast days that if it were possible will even deceive the elect.

@Moderator, Mukina and Seun, today is Sunday and I suppose only topics without controversies should be moved to frontpage

Now, what suffers in hell? Flesh and blood that is left in the grave at death? Can the soul, being immaterial suffer pain? Or will the soul be given flesh and blood anew in hell so it can be eternally made to pay for shop committed on a fleeting moment on earth? Anyway, let's ponder over this hellfire issue. When was hellfire created? At creation? Or after the purported fall of man? So as God was creating man, He knew man would rebel and created Hell as the same time He was forming the whole universe? Or did He,in addition to His promise of death to Adam if he dissents, create Hell immediately man fell? So, as God was planning redemption for man, He was also building Hell for him? This is really something to chew on. But most importantly, what happens to kids and infants when they die? Where do they go? If heaven, why? What have they done to justify such a fantastic eternal reward? Or if hell, why? Does inaction equate to sins?

.

frosbel:

Morning Brother.

There is indeed a Hell , but this is the lake of fire , the destination of all the ungodly both alive and dead. This lake of fire is for the eternal destruction of sinners , death and the author of all wickedness , Satan himself. Read Ezekiel 28 especially verses 11 -19 , Isaiah 66:24 , Malachi 4:3 , Matthew 8:29 , Malachi 4:1.

God's wrath is being revealed at this present time,( Romans 1:18 - notice the present tense of the verbs used 'is being ' ) , as you may have realized , countless people are reaping the wickedness they have sown in this present life , but they will also be denied entry into the eternal life after the final judgement and subsequent condemnation to the second death. John 3:18

The bone of contention is threefold :

1. There is no immediate hell after death , this is not in the bible. The dead are asleep - John 11:11 , Matthew 9:24 , 1 Kings 2:10 , Daniel 12:2 , John 5:28.

2. After death comes judgement ( on the day of resurrection ) - Hebrews 9:27 , 2 Corinthians 5:10 , Revelation 20:11-15.

3. After Judgement even death itself will be destroyed in the lake of fire symbolically speaking , death will be defeated once and for all with all the wickedness associated with it - Revelation 20:14 , 1 Corinthians 15:54 , Isaiah 25:8.


Hope this helps.

A times I don't know what to believe again.
There are alot of people that visited heaven and hell fire and they said, they saw alot of people in hell, now tell me who are those inside the hell because the dead are asleep and resurrection haven't come. Now how come there are people inside there. You remember someone said She saw Michael Jackson and Pope John Paul.

Now tell me why I should believe you?

There is NOTHING like HELL!

Its just a story told to scare kids.

Youngzedd:

A times I don't know what to believe again.
There are alot of people that visited heaven and hell fire and they said, they saw alot of people in hell, now tell me who are those inside the hell because the dead are asleep and resurrection haven't come. Now how come there are people inside there. You remember someone said She saw Michael Jackson and Pope John Paul.

Now tell me why I should believe you?

People who had out of body experiences should check up the source of these false dreams and visions.

God has given us the bible to guide us , we do not need additions to the word of God.

Besides, and for some strange reason, most people who are seen in this hell are not sinners, but pastors, evangelists, children of God who slipped and died before they could repent, those who wear earrings or trousers and makeup, those who take a glass of red wine from time to time, GOs, MOGs , and so on and so forth.

I wonder who is behind such dreams.