@Tpfka...

if i understand u on ur stance on death to mean eternal separation from God, then one can conclude that dead saints are also separated from God.

*twisted doctrine*

[quote][quote author=Tpfkakambo]@frosbel
death isnt cessation of life but eternal separation frm God.
Get ur theology right.
Physcl death is separation of spirit frm body.

There are three types of death in the bible.

1. spiritual death which is to be dead in sin while physically alive.
2. physical death , which is a cessation of existence altogether on this earth.
3. second death , which is a final and irreversible death after judgement.

but I agree with you , physical death is the separation of the body from the spirit or breath of GOD , for Solomon says that the spirit returns to GOD after death , both of the wicked and righteous , no distinction.

"then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it." - Ecclesiastes 12:7[

So adjust ur false basis 4 defing death.
If Hell so scarce u try to make heaven,its free.

lol, no one is going to heaven , We inherit the new paradise ( new heaven and earth ) on this present planet earth.

[quote]Everlastg damnation in d lake of fire is d second death.
So death in d new testament is shrt frm 4 second death.

Death will b destoyed by being cast into d lake of fire. Along with the residents of Hell, for hell will give up its dead, and all whose names r not found wrttn in d lamb's book of life.

So death will be cast into the lake of fire, but death will never die, in other words the process of dying will never cease, which infers that Jesus has not totally defeated death, can you see how demonic your stance is.

Immortality is immunity frm death. Immortality to man means his body wont die.

Rubbish, immortality means to live forever. mortality means we die.

But immortality will b given to saved man,theyll eat fro the tree of life and xperience physcal immortality (no death,aging etc)
but spiritually man is in God's image and wether saved or not the non physcl components of man(spirit,soul) are immortal.

confusion !!!


To the rest of your comments, I can only say you need to humble yourself and reject this false, demonic, and satanically inspired false teaching , so that you do not keep spreading this poison to unsuspecting and gullible souls.

Segeggs: @Tpfka...

if i understand u on ur stance on death to mean eternal separation from God, then one can conclude that dead saints are also separated from God.

*twisted doctrine*

like frosbel etc u misinteprete scriptures.
Wat dyu mean by dead saints and wat kind of death does d bible talk about?
The bible mentions d second death. Y d wrd second? If there isnt a frst death?
D frst death is physcl death wch is separation of spirit and soul frm body. Every1 tastes ths.. Except thse who will see d rapture or have been raptured b4 (elijah,enoch).
The second death is d loss of any1 who isnt in christ...theyre eternally separated frm God into eternal perdition (hell enroute LoF).
Read ur bible and ask God 4 inspiration.
The rchman died and was buried,(physcl death) but the bible says "in hell he lifted up his eyes...", ths shws u tht a prt of him was remved frm d body.. His soul/spirit.
And "abraham told him, REMEMBER..". SHOWNG THT the mental faculties of Man, transcend d human body... Man's memory/thnkg capacity isnt just a brain function.
Jesus alluded 2 this wen He said "their worms dont die out...".

If ths issue really bothers u, seek God abt it.

Tpfkakambo:

like frosbel etc u misinteprete scriptures.
Wat dyu mean by dead saints and wat kind of death does d bible talk about?
The bible mentions d second death. Y d wrd second? If there isnt a frst death?
D frst death is physcl death wch is separation of spirit and soul frm body. Every1 tastes ths.. Except thse who will see d rapture or have been raptured b4 (elijah,enoch).
The second death is d loss of any1 who isnt in christ...theyre eternally separated frm God into eternal perdition (hell enroute LoF).
Read ur bible and ask God 4 inspiration.
The rchman died and was buried,(physcl death) but the bible says "in hell he lifted up his eyes...", ths shws u tht a prt of him was remved frm d body.. His soul/spirit.
And "abraham told him, REMEMBER..". SHOWNG THT the mental faculties of Man, transcend d human body... Man's memory/thnkg capacity isnt just a brain function.
Jesus alluded 2 this wen He said "their worms dont die out...".

If ths issue really bothers u, seek God abt it.

You are the one Sir that needs a serious reeducation on this doctrine and I trust many more.

frosbel:


You are the one Sir that needs a serious reeducation on this doctrine and I trust many more.

u wsh there is no eternal punishment or everlastg fire.
Old desire...but whichever way u try to shoe horn d scriptures to suite u.. Always gonna b contradcted.
Evry person who's had a genuine afterlife xperience further shatters ur annihilation myth to smitterings.
U wsh d lazarus rchmn story were a parable. U really wsh. U wsh man were only flesh only? But even wen shwn man is tri partite 1thes5 ,u choose ur biases . Wen shown frm scriptures dat Hell gave up d dead in it , (how did they get there?), u dodge the point. U really need , not an education, but to choose whether 2 believe d bible or ur sectarian doctrine. U cud go ahead and strt a diff sect based on ur warped beliefs. U wnt b d frst.

Tpfkakambo:

u wsh there is no eternal punishment or everlastg fire.
Old desire...but whichever way u try to shoe horn d scriptures to suite u.. Always gonna b contradcted.
Evry person who's had [b]a genuine afterlife xperience [/b]further shatters ur annihilation myth to smitterings.

Afterlife experiences are mostly the stuff of witchcraft, astra travel, hallucinations or nightmares, I do not base sound doctrine on such.

Tpfkakambo:

u hav u stand on d issue but want support fr ur stand frm d wrd.
What makes d story a parable?
Pls xplain.

I have purely supported it from the word that it is a parable but you have blatantly denied d fact presented....the introductory part is just enough reason.....you want more??....

Tpfkakambo:

How wud Jesus tell a tru event wtout gvg to much personal details like d name of d indvduals and how wud ths differ frm a parable? Pls answer.

Do you wanna know the difference between true life events and that of parables??.....

Tpfkakambo:

If the story is a parable, wat is d moral?
And y wud Jesus use spiritual places d hearers arent familiar wth instead of of d familiar symbols they were all familiar wth in their everyday lives and wch Jesus faithfully used to relay gospel truths previously.

And what are these spiritual places that the hearers weren't familiar with and the ones you think they were familiar with?.......can I hear you mention them??

And I would give the morals of the story when once we have concluded that the story is a parable....

Tpfkakambo:
Y wud jesus tell a lie? He said there was a certain man NAMED LAZARUS . A fctitious chrcter needs no name. And a name adds no benefit to d moral of d story? Y wud Jesus go to extra lent to name d beggar?

And Jesus didn't go the fullest lenght to mention the name of the riÇh man so that we don't have to argue here??....and were all lazarus' beggars so that we can agree that the beggar wasn't a fictitious character??....

Tpfkakambo:
How does d sin d rchman commited chnge d story wthr d reader knows of it or not?
D importnt thng is tht the story occured. Accordg to d bible. How does deviatg to ths side issue validate the authntcty of d story?

Oh it does have a bearing bro on our discussion anÐ should change the story.......if one can't ascertain the deeds of the rich man and lazarus why should one link this story to the teaching of hell fire and heaven??.....

If the story occured what were the deeds of lazarus and the rich man respectively....??....you better answer....

Tpfkakambo:

I hve more questions but answer ths.

Rember d core question is wat makes ths story a parable hence figuratve..

1...The introductory part..
2...The 2 characters involved have done neither something nor nothing to deserve being in Hellfire and heaven respectively......
3...Abraham is not in heaven nor alive in some abode......
4...All lazarus' weren't beggars back then,so we don't know which lazarus Jesus was referring to(that's if you've chosen to cling to the fact that the beggars name was mentioned and so the story must have happened) ..
5...The rich mans name wasn't mentioned....mentioning the beggars name and leaving out the rich mans name shows the story never happened.....

frosbel:
Afterlife experiences are mostly the stuff of witchcraft, astra travel, hallucinations or nightmares, I do not base sound doctrine on such.

u wish- just like atheists wish evolution created life.
Yet ppl in d bible had outa body experience..
If it's witchcraft, then y how come they still end up corroboratg d scriptures!
For ur infrmation d writer of d book of revelation had an out of body..

Tpfkakambo:

u wish- just like atheists wish evolution created life.
Yet ppl in d bible had outa body experience..
If it's witchcraft, then y how come they still end up corroboratg d scriptures!
For ur infrmation d writer of d book of revelation had an out of body..

John received visions and not an out of body experience....

Revelation 1:1.....

New International Version
(©2011)
The revelation from Jesus Christ,
which God gave him to show his
servants what must soon take
place. He made it known by
sending his angel to his servant
John,

Tpfkakambo:

u wish- just like atheists wish evolution created life.
Yet ppl in d bible had outa body experience..
If it's witchcraft, then y how come they still end up corroboratg d scriptures!
For ur infrmation d writer of d book of revelation had an out of body..

you are all over the place.

John had a vision, he did not leave his body, stop all this nonsense.

frosbel:


you are all over the place.

John had a vision, he did not leave his body, stop all this nonsense.

rev1vs10.
John was IN THE SPIRIT... U want to interprete it in d way u interprete ur other scriptures about hell?
" He was In the Spirit and Heard behind him a great voice.."

the wrd there is "in d spirit, " not had a vision.
If John cud be taken into d spirit realm and talk with other spirit beings as God willed so can other ppl in this day. And God never changes He is still shwg ppl the spirit realm.
Man is a spirit being.john ddnt hear or see or operate in the spirit wth his physcl body.
But with his spirit body.

ijawkid:

John received visions and not an out of body experience....

Revelation 1:1.....

New International Version
(©2011)
The revelation from Jesus Christ,
which God gave him to show his
servants what must soon take
place. He made it known by
sending his angel to his servant
John,

revelation means tht which is revealed. Not Vision.
The bible is an exact book. Wen peter had a vision, it says he was in a trance and saw a spread from heaven with all kinds of animals on it.
Wen it is a dream, like in d case of d two josephs , father of jesus,and joseph in egypt it says so.
Stop dodgg or twsg d truth.
It says man is a spirit, then it says john was in d spirit?
And heard, in the spirit ...
Stephen while being stoned had a vision, d bible ddnt say he was in d spirit.
Elisha's servant had his Spiritual eyes opened thts y he cud see the horses and chariots of fire around him.
Again debunkg ur lies tht man is just flesh. D spirit man has eyes, ears hands etc and can operate in d spirit realm.

Tpfkakambo:

u wsh there is no eternal punishment or everlastg fire.
Old desire...but whichever way u try to shoe horn d scriptures to suite u.. Always gonna b contradcted.
Evry person who's had a genuine afterlife xperience further shatters ur annihilation myth to smitterings.
U wsh d lazarus rchmn story were a parable. U really wsh. U wsh man were only flesh only? But even wen shwn man is tri partite 1thes5 ,u choose ur biases . Wen shown frm scriptures dat Hell gave up d dead in it , (how did they get there?), u dodge the point. U really need , not an education, but to choose whether 2 believe d bible or ur sectarian doctrine. U cud go ahead and strt a diff sect based on ur warped beliefs. U wnt b d frst.

But the "lake of fire" is death, No? (second death).

So, what is your problem?

Will death also be tormented in it also?

"And "death" and hedes were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." (Revelation 20:14).
................................

The bible says that the dead are unconteouse of nothing, you said no, what do you want?

Abeg, park well!

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalm 115:17).

Keep believing the lie that satan told Adam in Eden, that human will not die.

Tpfkakambo:

rev1vs10.
John was IN THE SPIRIT... U want to interprete it in d way u interprete ur other scriptures about hell?
" He was In the Spirit and Heard behind him a great voice.."

the wrd there is "in d spirit, " not had a vision.
If John cud be taken into d spirit realm and talk with other spirit beings as God willed so can other ppl in this day. And God never changes He is still shwg ppl the spirit realm.
Man is a spirit being.john ddnt hear or see or operate in the spirit wth his physcl body.
But with his spirit body.

He was in the spirit during??.....

Let's completely read the revelation 1:10....
_____________________________
Revelation 1:10
New International Version
(©2011)
On the Lord's Day I was in the
Spirit, and I heard behind me a
loud voice like a trumpet,
_____________________________
How is it possible that john had an out of body experience into the lords day??........all john received according to the revelations 1;1 we've read were purely visions or revelations of things to come......servants of God do not time travel....they just receive visions bro....

And man is not a spirit being.....man is a mortal fleshy being.......all spirit beings live in heaven........

truthislight:

But the "lake of fire" is death, No? (second death).

So, what is your problem?

Will death also be tormented in it also?

"And "death" and hedes were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death." (Revelation 20:14).
................................

The bible says that the dead are unconteouse of nothing, you said no, what do you want?

Abeg, park well!

"The dead praise not the LORD, neither any that go down into silence." (Psalm 115:17).

Keep believing the lie that satan told Adam in Eden, that human will not die.

gather ur tots properly.
The body is still and life at death (departure of spirit frm it)
so its norml to say d body is silent etc.

How will they b conscious of anythg going on in ths wrld wen they are in anoda wrld esp hell.
? Ddnt the rch man plead wt abraham to send evangelist to his brodas.

"abeg park well "
ur sentimental quip.
Ths is d recourse of thse who cant muster an intellectual argument.


A dead body cnt praise God of course , in ths life, and a corpse is silent..

"keep believg wat satan told adam n eve tht humans will not die.."

actually thts d point. Humans will die (2nd death if they chose sin in hell fire,) hell is so dreadful God had 2 make a way of escape 4 man thru Jesus christ.
So u keep blvg satan's lie tht there's no hell! Ask God to open ur eyes 2 d truth.

Tpfkakambo:

revelation means tht which is revealed. Not Vision.
The bible is an exact book. Wen peter had a vision, it says he was in a trance and saw a spread from heaven with all kinds of animals on it.
Wen it is a dream, like in d case of d two josephs , father of jesus,and joseph in egypt it says so.
Stop dodgg or twsg d truth.
It says man is a spirit, then it says john was in d spirit?
And heard, in the spirit ...
Stephen while being stoned had a vision, d bible ddnt say he was in d spirit.
Elisha's servant had his Spiritual eyes opened thts y he cud see the horses and chariots of fire around him.
Again debunkg ur lies tht man is just flesh. D spirit man has eyes, ears hands etc and can operate in d spirit realm.

The bolded has no place in the scriptures....please open a verse in the bible that says man is a spirit....please.......

I just wonder how you want to try to seperate vision from revelation in this discussion......through what means did john receive the revelations he was given??.......

So many of the revelations john received were analogous with the ones received by daniel if not the same.....how is it that daniel received revelations through visions but John had to move out of his body to time travel.......??......

My brother John received visions jare.....

All of Gods servants who received visions were all in the spirit.......which ofcourse doesn't mean they had out of body experience....

ijawkid:

He was in the spirit during??.....

Let's completely read the revelation 1:10....
_____________________________
Revelation 1:10
New International Version
(©2011)
On the Lord's Day I was in the
Spirit, and I heard behind me a
loud voice like a trumpet,
_____________________________
How is it possible that john had an out of body experience into the lords day??........all john received according to the revelations 1;1 we've read were purely visions or revelations of things to come......servants of God do not time travel....they just receive visions bro....

And man is not a spirit being.....man is a mortal fleshy being.......all spirit beings live in heaven........

u wish.
Or ar u tryg to tell me wat d bible says?
Or u ar deliberately stayg blind?
Sorry bro. I hv no time 2 revisit ths old debate.
Hidg ur head in a bcket of sand doesnt prove there's no sun.
The verse says "i was in d spirit and heard (while in d spirit)"
and u come here tellg me John saw a vision!
In acts chpter 10v3: cornelius had a vision..the wrd used there is vision.
Wen peter was prayg v10 he "fell into a trance"..
God knows wat a vision is so ur interpretation is unnecessary.
In revelations John didnt hve a vision but was caught uo into d spirit realm.
Continue deludg urself. Or teach God wat he meant..

ijawkid:

The bolded has no place in the scriptures....please open a verse in the bible that says man is a spirit....please.......

I just wonder how you want to try to seperate vision from revelation in this discussion......through what means did john receive the revelations he was given??.......

So many of the revelations john received were analogous with the ones received by daniel if not the same.....how is it that daniel received revelations through visions but John had to move out of his body to time travel.......??......

My brother John received visions jare.....

All of Gods servants who received visions were all in the spirit.......which ofcourse doesn't mean they had out of body experience....

dnt show ur ignorance in a place like ths.
If u dnt know wat revelation means consult a good dictionary.


The bolded is an old thoroughly flogged issue go bck thru ths thread and read thru.

The rests r ur personal opinion.
Ezekiel in d valley of dry bones remember it was his Spirit tht was taken into the spirit realm.
The book of ezekiel is full of this incidence.

Tpfkakambo:

dnt show ur ignorance in a place like ths.
If u dnt know wat revelation means consult a good dictionary.


The bolded is an old thoroughly flogged issue go bck thru ths thread and read thru.

The rests r ur personal opinion.
Ezekiel in d valley of dry bones remember it was his Spirit tht was taken into the spirit realm.
The book of ezekiel is full of this incidence.

Leave this ignorance behind and learn , let pride not lead you deeper into error.

Tpfkakambo:

u wish.
Or ar u tryg to tell me wat d bible says?
Or u ar deliberately stayg blind?
Sorry bro. I hv no time 2 revisit ths old debate.
Hidg ur head in a bcket of sand doesnt prove there's no sun.
The verse says "i was in d spirit and heard (while in d spirit)"
and u come here tellg me John saw a vision!
In acts chpter 10v3: cornelius had a vision..the wrd used there is vision.
Wen peter was prayg v10 he "fell into a trance"..
God knows wat a vision is so ur interpretation is unnecessary.
In revelations John didnt hve a vision but was caught uo into d spirit realm.
Continue deludg urself. Or teach God wat he meant..

Lol......don't act like a child my bro......it is clear that john received a revelation from the angel Jesus sent and not john time travelling out of his body to literally experience the visions he saw.........john being in the spirit simply means he was under inspiration........

if prophets who had received similar revelations as did john received them through visions what should make johns case different??....

Please read this isaiahs prophecy and tell me if it was an out of body experience or just a vision....

Isaiah 6:1-3
King James Version (KJV)
6 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also
the LORD sitting upon a throne, high and lifted
up, and his train filled the temple.
2 Above it stood the seraphims: each one had
six wings; with twain he covered his face, and
with twain he covered his feet, and with twain
he did fly.
3 And one cried unto another, and said, Holy,
holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole
earth is full of his glory.


Is this not a similar vision seen by john in revelation??...........

Always remember that all the prophets of God were inspired(in the spirit) when they penned down prophecies .......

Tpfkakambo:

dnt show ur ignorance in a place like ths.
If u dnt know wat revelation means consult a good dictionary.


The bolded is an old thoroughly flogged issue go bck thru ths thread and read thru.

The rests r ur personal opinion.
Ezekiel in d valley of dry bones remember it was his Spirit tht was taken into the spirit realm.
The book of ezekiel is full of this incidence.

Lol.....we Àll know what revelation is my bro......what you haven't understood is that daniel,isaiah,ezekieljohn,david etc all had one thing in common...they were given revelations through visions.....they were all under inspiration........

And I stand here to see you open just one verse that says man is a spirit..........

John 4:24 tells us God is a spirit.....

Hebrews tells us that all angels are spirits......please open a scripture that says man is a spirit and then we can all go to sleep.....

ijawkid: .please open a scripture that says man is a spirit and then we can all go to sleep.....

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.1 Corinthians 2:11.

very clear from scriptures spirit of God is the same as God is Spirit with a BIG "S"

spirit of man is the same as man is a spirit with a small "s".

Bidam:

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.1 Corinthians 2:11.

very clear from scriptures spirit of God is the same as God is Spirit with a BIG "S"

spirit of man is the same as man is a spirit with a small "s".

How does the expression spirit of man now mean man is a spirit........

It is like saying the mind of Christ means Christ is a mind

My brother that scripture does not mean man is a spirit.......

How can you obfuscate this verse to mean man is a spirit??...chei I don die........

Please let's read down the next verse so that we can get a clear meaning of what we are saying...
_____________________________
King James Bible (Cambridge
Ed.)
Now we have received, not the
spirit of the world, but the spirit
which is of God; that we might
know the things that are freely
given to us of God.
______________________________

BIDAM my brother....is the world a spirit??.......

Tpfkakambo:

The body is still and life at death (departure of spirit frm it)

You must have been a witch craft practising man.

You are also into the ocult.

Lets consider the example given to us in the bible, this example written afore times is written for our own benefit.

Lets see the case of samuel and Saul.
This Saul consulting a witch/spirit medium is a deceit from satan and his Demons.

That is why Yahweh commanded that those witches that satan used in deceiving people should be sent out of Israel or be killed.

Saul did not see samuel with his eyes but depended on what the witch have to tell him and that is how and where satan played his tricks.

While samuel was alive he refuse to see Saul till he died.

God told him that he has rejected Saul and as such he samuel cannot go to Saul or passed any message to Saul from God.

Yahweh was no longer talking or having dealing with Saul the king.

Is it possible that when Samuel died he decided to disobey God and started talking to Saul? No.

Will God have decide to start dealing with Saul after samuel has died and started using samuel at death to do what he had refused him while he was alive? No.

Will Yahweh pass through a spirit medium that he has had chased and killed in Israel to pass a message to a rejected Saul? No.

Will a spirit medium be able to consult Yahweh? No.

Will Yahweh talk to the rejected Saul through a spirit medium? No.

So, from the fore going, is it true that the character that the medium described/brought forth was the dead samuel?
Judge for yourself.

Satan is behind the immortality of the soul doctrine and he and is Demons uses spirit medium to also spread it.

And you are doing the work of satan and his Demons here.

Who do you think you are that we should believe you instead of the bible?

The dead are silent. Psalm 115:17.

That ^ is what the bible said. QED.

Bidam:

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.1 Corinthians 2:11.

very clear from scriptures spirit of God is the same as God is Spirit with a BIG "S"

spirit of man is the same as man is a spirit with a small "s".

The phrases 'spirit of man ' and ' spirit in man ' are indicative of the life that MAN possesses in him , and which is a gift from GOD.

These phrases do not ever say that MAN is a spirit , which is what we have been waiting for you Guys to confirm.

- God is a Spirit confirmed in the bible
- Angels are spirits - confirmed in the bible.
- Man is a spirit - ??

Show us where the bible explicitly, not by inference, says that MAN is a spirit.

You remind me of @Image123

Tpfkakambo:

The body is still and life at death (departure of spirit frm it)

that ^ is a lie.
The bible says the "dead are conscious of nothing". Eccl. 9:5,6.

Tpfkakambo:

How will they b conscious of anythg going on in ths wrld wen they are in anoda wrld esp hell.

this is another lie.

Jesus that came down from heaven, said that no man has gone to heaven:

"And no man hath ascended up to heaven, but he that came down from heaven, even the Son of man which is in heaven." (John 3:13).
.....................

So, all those dead people went no where, Elijah, Enoch, etc. Jesus said they are not in heaven, stop lying.

Tpfkakambo:

Ddnt the rch man plead wt abraham to send evangelist to his brodas.

If you dont know the meaning of the parable, then keep quite and stop paddling faleshood.

Tpfkakambo:

"abeg park well "
ur sentimental quip.
Ths is d recourse of thse who cant muster an intellectual argument.

I see, your argument is just that ^, "intellectual argument" and not biblical.

Tpfkakambo:

A dead body cnt praise God of course , in ths life, and a corpse is silent..

Keep quite! You are twisting the truth of God's word.
If you dont have a biblical teaching to give, carry your ocult immortal soul that is just what Satan told Adam, that Adam will positively not die out of where the bible is being discussed.

See what God said to Adam:

"In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return." (Genesis 3:19).
..........................

Adam went back to where he came from > dust.

Befor Adam was created from dust, where was Adam existing? > He was existing no where.

When he died he went back to dust = no where.

You are lying with your ocult Demonic practices that satan and his Demons are manipulating to deceive humans.

Tpfkakambo:

So, u keep blvg satan's lie tht there's no hell!

yes, there is nothing like "hell fire" in the knowledge that Yahweh gave to the Jews.

The word "hell" is a latin word that Jews did not make use of and the meaning has nothing to do with the Jews that Yahweh gave his word.

What you are teaching is falsehood.

Tpfkakambo:

u wish.
Or ar u tryg to tell me wat d bible says?
Or u ar deliberately stayg blind?
Sorry bro. I hv no time 2 revisit ths old debate.
Hidg ur head in a bcket of sand doesnt prove there's no sun.
The verse says "i was in d spirit and heard (while in d spirit)"
and u come here tellg me John saw a vision!
In acts chpter 10v3: cornelius had a vision..the wrd used there is vision.
Wen peter was prayg v10 he "fell into a trance"..
God knows wat a vision is so ur interpretation is unnecessary.
In revelations John didnt hve a vision but was caught uo into d spirit realm.
Continue deludg urself. Or teach God wat he meant..

"I am in the spirit" simply mean that the spirit of God was compelling them!

How can you then have the misunderstanding that they "left their body"?



You have a very big problem.

Tpfkakambo:

actually it's ppl with sck nd twistd imgntns dat twist d bible to say wat they think it means.
God isn't battlg confsn. U interprete in contxt somtimes . Othrtimes its explicit enuff.
Hell is a terrible place so terrible God sent his son b man's substitute so man wont go there. Only a lovg God wud do tht.
Thers a diff btw warng sb about evil e.g aids,lung cancer ,teenage pregnancy and takg ppls lives or violatg their free will thru death n torture.
One takes genuine lov and concern d other is devilish. U shd know better. No christian will shoot or kill u fr not acceptg christ.

Many ppl dnt sleep wth hiv postve partners out of fear too.
Its not d best motve,fear,to avoid evil but it wrks and is d least denominatr. Fact is som ppl will cling to sin and evil no matter wat God does to free thm but in d end still want God to hav thm into his heaven. Sorry. Its Hell tht awaits thm.

actually it's ppl with sck nd twistd imgntns dat twist d bible to say wat they think it means.

The Bible is very clear on this.

"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out – those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned" John 5:28-29 NIV

The words of Apostle Paul:

"...and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." Acts 24:15 NIV

Try to distort this again. There is nothing in the Old Testament that supports an eternal place of torment. I have Jewish friends and I have asked them questions regarding hell fire. There is absolutely NOTHING in Judaism that endorses this sick doctrine.

Hear what Yahweh has to say on this wicked act. Speaking through Prophet Jeremiah, Yahweh says:

"They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire--something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind." ~ Jeremiah 7:31 NIV

If this act of wickedness did not enter the mind of Yahweh in the Old Testament, how come He suddenly had a brainwave and decided it was time to build an eternal furnace of torment?

Hell is a terrible place so terrible God sent his son b man's substitute so man wont go there. Only a lovg God wud do tht.

God sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross as a substitute for man's sins so man wouldn't suffer for eternity in Hell fire? Was God successful in His mission? If your answer is yes, why is there still need for hell fire? Except you are saying God failed in his mission.


Again, we hear Apostle Paul's teaching on this issue:

"But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith." 1 Corinthians 15:12-14 NIV

Paul was speaking to people like you who were spreading heresies saying the dead did not resurrect but went some where else after death.

"But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him."
1 Corinthians 15:20-22 NIV

Paul refers to dead people as people who have fallen asleep. This is consistent with what Jesus said when he went to raise Jairus's daughter from the dead.

"When they came to the home of the synagogue leader, Jesus saw a commotion, with people crying and wailing loudly. He went in and said to them, ‘Why all this commotion and wailing? The child is not dead but asleep.’ But they laughed at him." Mark 5:38-40 NIV

According to these Bible passages, the dead are asleep. You can laugh at us like the people laughed at Jesus. THE DEAD ARE ASLEEP AND NOT IN HEAVEN OR HELL AS YOU CLAIM.


" For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him." 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 NIV

In Christ, all will be made alive!!! It is written in black and white. You only make alive something or someone that was dead. Those who belong to Christ will be made alive when he comes. This is what the Bible says. Stop your mischief!



I see you are one of countless number of Christians who are poor Bible students. You regurgitate damnable heresies and disgusting doctrines of men, hoping that by much talking and continuous quoting of unrelated Bible passages, you will convince people of your false convictions and teachings. If after these CLEAR explanations you choose to continue in your path of ignorance, then I'm afraid I have nothing else to say to you. Eat the humble pie and study the Bible properly. Ask questions instead of accepting your ignorance.

truthislight:

"I am in the spirit" simply mean that the spirit of God was compelling them!

How can you then have the misunderstanding that they "left their body"?



You have a very big problem.

ur ultra confused.... Frst blighted minds like cant even understand ur physcl make up tht u r a spirit so wen d bible says sb was in d spirit it befuddles ur mind.
Continue being blind....
If d spirit of d Lord was upon him like it was on old testament prophets its a diffrent matter nd the bible wud hav recorded it so.
But som1 like ur types who cant agree wth 1thes5:23,
how can understand tht the writer of d book of revelations was literally IN THE SPIRIT REALM where he got the revelation he recorded.

[quote author=frosbel][/quote]

u seem to deliberately ignore d stand on the NT on ths issues. Quotg wat suites ur opinion.
To b so confused and ignorant tht u r a SPIRIT mkes reasng spiritual thngs wt u ardous.
1thes5:23.
U read d bible wth wools over ur eyes...dyu blve in d baptism of d holy spirit evidenced by d speakg in tongues?

nep2ra:
The Bible is very clear on this.

"Do not be amazed at this, for a time is coming when all who are in their graves will hear his voice and come out – those who have done what is good will rise to live, and those who have done what is evil will rise to be condemned" John 5:28-29 NIV

The words of Apostle Paul:

"...and I have the same hope in God as these men themselves have, that there will be a resurrection of both the righteous and the wicked." Acts 24:15 NIV

Try to distort this again. There is nothing in the Old Testament that supports an eternal place of torment. I have Jewish friends and I have asked them questions regarding hell fire. There is absolutely NOTHING in Judaism that endorses this sick doctrine.

Hear what Yahweh has to say on this wicked act. Speaking through Prophet Jeremiah, Yahweh says:

"They have built the high places of Topheth in the Valley of Ben Hinnom to burn their sons and daughters in the fire--something I did not command, nor did it enter my mind." ~ Jeremiah 7:31 NIV

If this act of wickedness did not enter the mind of Yahweh in the Old Testament, how come He suddenly had a brainwave and decided it was time to build an eternal furnace of torment?

God sent Jesus Christ to die on the cross as a substitute for man's sins so man wouldn't suffer for eternity in Hell fire? Was God successful in His mission? If your answer is yes, why is there still need for hell fire? Except you are saying God failed in his mission.

Again, we hear Apostle Paul's teaching on this issue:

"But if it is preached that Christ has been raised from the dead, how can some of you say that there is no resurrection of the dead? If there is no resurrection of the dead, then not even Christ has been raised. And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith." 1 Corinthians 15:12-14 NIV

Paul was speaking to people like you who were spreading heresies saying the dead did not resurrect but went some where else after death.

"But Christ has indeed been raised from the dead, the firstfruits of those who have fallen asleep. For since death came through a man, the resurrection of the dead comes also through a man. For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him."
1 Corinthians 15:20-22 NIV

Paul refers to dead people as people who have fallen asleep. This is consistent with what Jesus said when he went to raise Jairus's daughter from the dead.

"When they came to the home of the synagogue leader, Jesus saw a commotion, with people crying and wailing loudly. He went in and said to them, ‘Why all this commotion and wailing? The child is not dead but asleep.’ But they laughed at him." Mark 5:38-40 NIV

According to these Bible passages, the dead are asleep. You can laugh at us like the people laughed at Jesus. THE DEAD ARE ASLEEP AND NOT IN HEAVEN OR HELL AS YOU CLAIM.


"For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive. But each in turn: Christ, the firstfruits; then, when he comes, those who belong to him." 1 Corinthians 15:22-23 NIV

In Christ, all will be made alive!!! It is written in black and white. You only make alive something or someone that was dead. Those who belong to Christ will be made alive when he comes. This is what the Bible says. Stop your mischief!



I see you are one of countless number of Christians who are poor Bible students. You regurgitate damnable heresies and disgusting doctrines of men, hoping that by much talking and continuous quoting of unrelated Bible passages, you will convince people of your false convictions and teachings. If after these CLEAR explanations you choose to continue in your path of ignorance, then I'm afraid I have nothing else to say to you. Eat the humble pie and study the Bible properly. Ask questions instead of accepting your ignorance.

i see u use YAHWEH, so i guess ur Jw, well if so,we r wide aprt in our beliefs.
Ur sect dstrts d bible to no end and its understndable, deludg ppl abt d reality of Hell and Eternal punishment is one of satan's core gimmicks.

A christian one who has accepted christ Has d Spirit of Chrst in him,specifcally in his spirit,so a christian isnt going to b alive at a future date but alredy has Life in Him already, romns8:11 "if d spirit of Him who raised Jesus frm d dead is livg in u,he wu raised Christ frm d dead will give life to your mortal bodies thru his Spirit, who lives in u" . Verse 10 further debunks dat junk yu guys spout about man not being a spirit being.
V10 says "if christ in u ur body is dead because of sin yet ur spirit is alive ...". If ur born again christian ur spiritually alive, u r not going to b alive somday but u already hav life and wnt die spiritually again-xcept...

xcept u choose to live in sin after u get saved. Rom8v13.

Paul says in philipians 1v23 "i am torn btween the two: I desire to depart and be with Christ, which is better by far, 24: but it is more necessary for you that I remain in the body". I in ths verse is the person paul addreses as himself and indcates tht this person remains in the "body". He clearly shows tht when He departs (death) he is instantly present wt Chrst . The I in ths context is his spirit man,the real Paul, there's nothg like a soul sleep /unconsciousness ..

1thes4:13
"we believe tht Jesus died and rose again and so God will Bring WITH JESUS those who hav fallen Asleep in HIM ". ON Christs return deprted christians will return with Him. How will they return with him if they arent already present with Him? Yet despite ths d dead in Christ will rise frst. (u only need a lil logc to understand ths verse).

It talks of "fallen asleep in him"
"God will bring wth him (those who fell asleep in him)..."
v17"...,and the dead in christ will rise first" (these dead in christ are the same ones who returned with him!
Simple.
Bck to paul's earlier quote "to deprt from the body is to be with Christ". The spirit of those who fell asleep with christ are with christ.
They return with him to possess their bodies at the command of Jesus . Falling asleep is an euphemism for death.
Jesus later told his disciples plainly tht Lazarus is dead!