@Ajadrage; Where do you disagree? Please lets hear it. We are not saying that Barnabas gospel is 100%. The initial poster, brother Frizy said it is 1000% better than the 4 canonized gospels in the Bible.

@~Lady~: Post my rebuttal. When am through with david, I will handle your initial post and whatever you will post later. God willing.

Superstition is when you said something silly and far off human rationale. Something like, "I am immensed and being protected by the blood!"

Or something like the existence of God.

@~Lady~: Post my rebuttal. When am through with david, I will handle your initial post and whatever you will post later. God willing

I've been posting your rebuttals you however have been skipping my questions.

I could go through this whole thread and bring up issues that you never answered and then did ring around the rosy as if I wouldn't notice.

You still haven't provided me with the answers I requested.

They have everything to put into the religion but nothing to show for it on judgment day hence Jesus' saying that 'what would it profit a man who gain the whole world and lose his soul. ?

This is because you are God and you know what is going on with every single one of us?

Oya tell what we have not gained by putting everything into the religion.

Since muuslims have so much to show for what they've put in the religion, show me.
Show me what you have gained. Show what muuslims have gained.

Thank God that you said there were two comforters; The former existed and departed before the another. How can these be the same? Is it feasible that my former wife be the another wife? Is it possible that a wife be the other wife of the same husband? Hardly! And please remember that Jesus was talking in the Physical. He was talking as a physical person

But he was speaking of a spirit. It amaxes me how you still use physical things to explain the spiritual.
If so, please tell me, how is it that Muhaamad is still with us, because I can't see him anywhere. You must explain with the physical in this situation too.

And no he did not say there were two comforters. He said the "another comforter" and " the comforter" was the same name, as in "the student" and "the christian student" is still ----- ~Lady~

Stop planting things.

I understand. But what did the holy spirit who could not talk said, taught, reminded and glorified? How did this invisible being did each and everyone of them? Afterall, he was expected to do each, exceptionally wel, right? Show us each one of them. We are not talking about what Jesus did. That went with the former. We are not talking about the future, the another.

Are you expecting to hear a voice? Does God speak to you?

Sir, are you telling me that people around the world after so many centuries did not know how to wipe their yansh?
It needed Muhaaamad to come and say this is how a tissue should be used? This is how soap should be used? This is how water should be used? Surely he had to show those people how they were supposed to have sex so that they could procreate, that's why people weren't having children before Muhaamad came and showed them the proper way. RUBBISH.
Nonsensities like this is why I will never become a muuslim. I would belong to the secular world first.Yeah put your hand on your head and scream A'llah all you want. But rubbish like this is why I won't. Oh yeah and honour killings are also why I won't be a muuslim. Oh yeah lack of freedom of choice is why I won't be a muuslim. Oh yeah and the constant twisting of things, is why I won't be a muusim. Oh yeah the inaccuracies of history (not through the Bible or Torah) is why I won't be a muuslim.

How did a theoretical relationship between wife and husband could be compared with practical, real life experience?

By love. You love your wife as Christ loved the Church. As in you do not harm her, physically, emotionally, mentally, socially. You sacrifice for her, you take the good and the bad. You forgive her if she wrongs you, you comfort her when she is at low moments. Just as Christ does for us.

He spoke about recovering the body of the Pharaoh who perished in the sea, as a sign of how evil is punished. You Bible does not have a statement about this. The body of this evil Pharaoh is today a specimen that has been seen by billions of people.

Which Pharaoh?

He predicted that the arabs will be competing with themselves for building of lofty buildings, they are today doing just that. i guess the arabs are making paradise on earth for the disbelievers! This earth is the paradise of the disbelievers, anyway.

This was already predicted in the Bible.

I hope you keep a good hygeine, my man. I trust you. We Ijebu people are fashion plate people. We are very clean.

When did the Ijebu people become clean?

And God promised he will forgive himhis sins. We did not read that he committed any sins. Sure Jesus is sinless. Thanks to the AlQur'an which states that. If we go by the bible, temptation is sin, hence when Jesus was tempted 3 times, what will you call them other than Christian sins? Jesus cursed a fig tree to wither, while the tree follows the natural laws that God at given it to fruit in the seasonal time that is accorded it. What will you call that, but christian sin

The Bible states that Jesus is sinless
The Bible does not state that temptation is sin, stop planting things

M.uhammad's followers by faith walked on water while every one of them was riding on their horses. This is a big deal for you? The followers entered a jungle and they yelled to the animals: Oh you animals, we are followers of M.uhammad, the Prophet of God, we need this land (Jungle), we now ask you to vacate this jungle for our use, you and your offsprings! The sahabahs saw the lions and all the wild animals with their family leaving out the jungle as they were commanded

proof of this. Harry potter performed miracles too you know

And if M.uhammad (AS) could not fight off the poison, at least he survived it for many years

it was the cause of his death, even he attested to it. It bothered him for years.

I employ you to read. God is not the Author of Confusion. LOL. I have to amuse you. God will not want to tell us about the future and bring us confusion. A human prophet who called himself a spirit and comforter could not be talking about another spirit and comforter to come after him, unless it is exactly like him: Prophet and human comforter. Exactly of the same kind but never the same. How can anyone in his right sense that Jesus was telling his disciples that he will be back, but then as an invisible thing, to teach them now, new information he did not teach them while he was man like them. To remind them of what he had said to them while he was a man among them. To now glorify himself when he was a man, but doing the glorification as an invisible thing!

The descriptions that Christ gave about who to come doesn't fit muhaamad and I'm not just talking about the "spirit" issue. I will be back for more on this. I have to go now.

M.uhammad's followers by faith walked on water while every one of them was riding on their horses.

1. What is the definition of this bogus "faith" in the quuran?
2. Where is it recorded that any muuslim walked on water? Are you begining to invent tales again?
3. If they were walking on water, where were the others riding their horses? On water too?

This is a big deal for you?

unsubstantiated LIES is a big deal for me.

The followers entered a jungle and they yelled to the animals: Oh you animals, we are followers of M.uhammad, the Prophet of God, we need this land (Jungle), we now ask you to vacate this jungle for our use, you and your offsprings! The sahabahs saw the lions and all the wild animals with their family leaving out the jungle as they were commanded

Are there Lions in the arabian desert? Lions can only be found in the jungles of Africa and India . . . did the prophet's followers see spiritual lions?

@4Him:

I can't believe this!

Believe it! You ain't seen nothing, yet.

You have a severe problem with facts and truth.

How? My good qualities I took from M.uhammad (AS). Anything bad about me is not from him. Where is your confusion? Go sidon!

there is no need to google you man of deciet . . . simply post ONE verse of the qu'ran that deals with sin and righteousness.

Qur'an
The Qur'an forbids extramarital sex.

“ And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an evil way. „
—Qur'an, [Qur'an 17:32]
Moreover, the Qur'an considers extramarital sex as one of the major sins besides polytheism and murder:

Qur'an 49:13   Surah Al-Hujurat (The Inner Apartments)
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of Allah is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And Allah has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

mo'hammad and his followers perpetrated all these "sins" you mention.
Besides WHERE in the qu'ran are those "sins" explicitly mentioned and frowned upon?

2) "The Quran teaches that killing one man may be like killing the whole of mankind, and saving a man may be equivalent to saving humanity."

In context:

QUR'AN [5.32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our apostles came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

This example is enough. Now, man, do your own research on the rest.

that is a lie from the pit of hell itself. The Glory of Christ was perfected with His sacrifice on the cross . . .

David, be careful yourself o. Eba ni so fun omo yi o. Jeje mi ni mi nlo o. Where is Sheniqua? Help my main man, David on the reality of death and just playing dead!

No one can accurately tell which was the "red sea" mentioned in the bible . . . and you claim someone has found the body of pharaoh?   what a man of lies you are.

David, why don't you make your own research? You are a smart man. Smart people don't mae uneducated statement like this. You seem to be blind. I want you to open your eyes and mind and heart for success.

get your facts right bro.  

I did. You should get your facts straight, brother man.

@~Lady~: You should be able to know from the expressions, comforter and another Comforter, the two can not be the same entity. The closest they could be is two entities of similar nature. Close in nature to each other like two peas in a pod. (The manager said to the factor that he is visited, that as soon as he left and arrives, he will petition (not order) the chairman to send another manager to lead them forward, since they are now ready for expansion. Will this another manager be the same manager that is returning to the home base/office? Will the another manager not be a diffrerent manager? Could this another manager be the Chairman? Think about it for a moment).


@4Him: Am still piping mad. lol. People this is a joke between David and I. I am never angry at him.

the confusion is squarely yours. Where in the qu'ran is the term "spirit of truth" ever used? Surely if its the same al'lah speaking in the bible the least we can expect from him is consistency?
- this decietful, roundabout way of forcing m'ohammad as still alive even when his bones are long gone from the grave is laughable. Shakespeare is long dead but his "books" still remain with us and will be for ever, is he the spirit of truth?

In Surah Azhab, Alla.h the almighty commands that Mus.lims should give salaam to M.uhammad, if the mu.slims know what benefits them. All.ah says that He the Lord God and His Angels give salaam on the Prophet! (AS, yah anabihi Karim). Mu.hammad in an authentic Hadith says that when salaam is given to him, from any part of the globe, the Angel brings it to him and his soul is return to him to accept it. Then Alla.h says about the Prophets and true pious people, He has commanded the earth to to consume their bodies. This was the reason that after all the centuries, the body of Prophet Joseph was exhumed in Egypt and transported along with the Bani Israel in their exodus. As to the condition of the body, it was fresh as if he had just died! And when there was a situation in Madina to exhume the body of one of the companions of our prophet (AS), in the process of moving his body to another grave, his skin was pricked by mistake and there gushes out fresh blood. This incident was after a long time that he had died. I believe the name of the companion is Abbass bin Abdul Mutalib (Abbass the Uncle of Mu.hammad was the person whom the prophet demostrated the stoppage of interest on: Read the farewell address of the prophet). It is very interesting that the grandfather of the prophet, Abdul Mutalib, is named so, because people considered him as a slave of mutalib. Who was Mutalib? He was Abdul Mutalib's uncle. I think Abdul Mutalib's mother was from Taif or Yathrib.

What the reason for this tidbit about Abdul Mutalib? Just to demostrate that the people were used to naming themselves slave of this or that. But in all of the 360 Idols inside the Kaaba, there was no one of them named Allah. And very interestingly, there was a time that the Kaaba did not contain any idol, a time before they brought the very first one!

- Just show us where this phrase is used in YOUR OWN qu'ran . . . we are tired of the same people who claim the bible is corrupt coming to force mo'hammad into it. Surely al'lah must have mentioned something about a comforter in his book too.
- When did m'ohammad ever comfort anyone? Are you refering to those he robbed, raped and plundered by the sword?
- That spirits can speak and act as comforters is not a new theme in the bible.

Show us when anybody ever called Jesus, Emmanuel? I think your feet need to be held to the fire! It burns, man. AlQur'an only helps to filter out the correct, palusible verses in the Bible. Diggit?

Mu.hammad (as) comforts me. I dreamt about him. His words in the hadith are the very fountain of my Comfort, after the AlQur'an. It explain the AlQur'an. Unlike your making it up as you go along. Everyone with his own interpretation. So bathing in the blood, while others don't know jack! I wonder if a man and his followers suffered 13 years and then another 2 on top of that in the hands of evil people, should he not follow the command of His Creator,to face the enemies? Moses came from Median to Egypt, not wading or ford through the sea. But he came on land. However, when All.ah the Almighty wanted to destroy Pharaoh by drowning, because of his arrogance, Alka.h made Moses chose a route that will take them through the sea. Did Moses decided to take the land route, that will be against the command of his Lord? Hardly. Did King David refused to kill Goliat and all those evil people he fought, in the many wars that he waged?

You should be ashamed of yourself, David. You are named after this warmongering king in the bible! I did not see you changing that name. Your god Jesus is also honored by an attachment to the house of this warmongering King! (Well, I am looking at things from the Bible. When I look at it from the AlQur'an, I love Prophet Daud (AS)!)

Wasn't David accused of adultery with a wife of one of his subjects and murder of the husband of that woman? Iwo man yi.

where are these verses? Please show us the qu'ranic verses too.

O da bi wipe Olee (malaisse) ni iwo man ijebu yi. Do you own home work. By the way Angel Gabreil is Called among other names Ruuh Qudus; because he is a spiritual being it beings Holy(Qudus) Spirit (Ruuh).

thou fraud, oya tell us how m'ohammad was similar to Christ. Where are his miracles, did he ever ascend to heaven? did he raise himself from the dead? why wasnt he sure of his own salvation when Christ was more than sure of His?

Was Jesus not a person? Did Jesus not have a mother? Did Jesus not eat? Did Jesus not use the bathroom? Did Jesus not sleep? Thats just showing that Jesus was not more than a human being. Did Jesus not pray to God? Please auro, mio le rerin.

Do you have any of Jesus miracles still available so that we can see it? Mu.hammad split the moon for Quraishi tribes men. It took about 1400 years for a secularized society, the United States of America, to tell the whole world that there is a crack on the moon. Let me anticipating your weak rebuttal of moon quakes. You have weak excuses for everything Is.lamic. (I will borrow your phrase to attack your repose before you bring it on: Your statement will be FRAUD!)

long stories filled with nothing but pathetic conjecture . . . where are these verses?

Surah Saff, Verse 6 already let us know what the role of Isa bin Mariam (as) was. This is enough for us.

YES! I've been crying for them since and all uncle olabowale can do is whine.

Nkon ni wo man yi o. Ole ku! Na wa o. Lol. Gbogbo agidi Ijebu Ode lo wa nnu e! We de ro ra, noyin. kide shee, Omo wee!

thou fraud, no one asked you for "stories" of Jesus . . . there are plenty such stories in nursery school textbooks too.
WHERE did m'ohammad acknowledge Christ's death on the cross and resurrection? The very basis of His Lordship?

Since Jesus did not die, will there be a reason to acknowledge what did not happen? Ironically, I was discussing the death of Tim Russert of NBC's Meet the Press, with my wife. We started talking about life and death, when she told me about a woman she just met in DC, who showed her pictures, to back her own story od death and coming back to life!

She is a Pharmacist and had an accident in Lagos about 2 years ago. She was taken into the morgue. Maybe many days or at least long time in the morgue, she began to hear a voice telling her that she was not finished with her responsibilities on this earth. In a nutshell, after a while, she woke up, realising she was tasty. She cried for water. Even at that time she did not know that she was in the morgue. The people at the morgue thought it was some Jinn talking. The same voice that was telling her about her unfinished responsibility on earth began to tell the people working in the morgue that she was not a Jinn and that they should give her a drink of water. Soin enough she realised that she had been stacked up on top of other people who were dead.

She began to feel the horrible smell. Finally the workers realised she was alive. She told my bride that the next thing that she remembered was that she woke up in Igbobi hospital. The issue is that a person may be considered death and may not truly died. When a person's soul is called back by All.ah, if it is final, then the person is dead and can not wake up. If an ordinary person can come back to life, after she had been there in the morgue, on top of other daed people, then know that to preserve the life of a prophet from his energy is very simple for God! Alla.h says he was not Crucified and he was not killed. Rather it was made to look so. and those who doubt it have no true knowledge, except that they put forward a conjecture.

It spoke to Elija, it spoke to Balaam, it spoke in the form of a dove when Christ was being baptised, it spoke to Abraham . . . what nonsense are you talking about?

About Abraham, he saw the Angels, physically! About your dove like form, where did the dove go, afterall? I am sure that the Jews would have seized it and slaughter it, if it were true. If Angel spoke to any prophet, when appropriate, they will see him in Angellic form or as a man, if others were to see him at that time. (The story of Jibril coming as a strange man to Mu.hammad in the company of his companions, in the Mosque in Madina is a good illustartion here. This was about the hadith of Jibril known as "He came to teach you your religion!) There are many instances where the companions saw Jibril as a man. When Jibril appeared to Mariam, the mother of Jesus to announce his birth, he came as an ordinary man. She knew that she never had seen him before. But as she immediately seeked the protection of God against him, if he were a person of evil intent, she realised from his Answer that she was save in that situation. She knew nothing evil would come from him.

M'ohammad claimed to recieve the qu'ran from an angel . . . have YOU ever physically seen one? Do angels speak?

Mu.hammad was a messenger and prophet of God. His Lord made it possible for Muhammad to see and hear Jibril, in all the times that he needed to see him, in full angelic for or just as human. If Angels don't speak, how did they deal with Ibrahim on the way to Lut in the destruction of Sodom? How did they transfer the information to Lut that he needed to leave out in the morning before the destruction began? How did Jacob became Israel, during the time of his struggle with the Angel? Did these angels speak? Come on, Dave!

supply the "prophecies" please. Not doing so makes you a bold-faced liar.

Didn't Muhamm.ad say that Isla.m will absorb the whole of Arab penisula? Didn't Muh.ammad say that Is.lam will reach every corner of the Globe? Didn't Muha.mmad talk about returning to makka traumphantly? Didnt Mu.hammad talk about Abu Lahab death in a particular fashion? Did he not talk about Rome defeating Persia? What about the discovery of Moses evil Pharaoh's body? Brother Babs, will handle will continue from here.

@~Lady~: You seemed to have insuated that I spoke Ebonic, in one of my response to you. Let me make it clear that what I responded to was your accertion that Mu.hammad did not speak the truth about Jesus. And my response to that was to bring you to the realization that Muhammad spoke in full completeness, in matters that were before the asserion, the thing that you objected to in his statement about Jesus (AS). For example, before Jesus, Muh.ammad spoke in full about Moses and Pharaoh. He spoke about the future discovery of the body of the drowned at sea Pharaoh of Moses. His body is in Egypt, as we speak for all to see. Help yourself about this. Your Bible does not contain this part of the matter of that Pharaoh. Muha.mmad (AS), also spoke about how Joseph restored his own honor, by demanding that the king request the wife of his former master tell the absolute truth of what happened between them. Check your Bible if you have that information in it.

When he came to Jesus, he spoke about how Jesus as a babe in the cradle was able by miracle defended his mother from any illicit sex accusation. We see that Jesus had not become a "judge," at that time. And the law of Moses about sex, as in the 10 commandments was still enforced. It had not became a mere advise as it has become in the New Testament. Jesus mother would have been punished with a due punishment a woman who is not married, having an evidence of illicit sex; the very child, in this case Jesus who came into the defense of his mother.

After the thing that the christians are in uproar that M.uhammad did not agree with in the Bible (the New Testament), about the death of jesus and his ressurection, we see that what Mu.hammad said about other events that had nothing to do with Jews and Christians, all of them were true. Will it not make sense since you do not have a consensus in the many several versions, editions and revisons of the Bible, that you must then go to the Mu.hammad and accept what he said about Jesus? If the heart is pure one will see that it is the lying heart that is denying the truth coming from a person who spoke all through before and after and even. He must have spoken the truth about the same event.

Muha.mmad was known by his people as the most trusted. Even his enemies continued to use him as their trustee even while the were fighting against him about the new religion, which they said tore their families apart. When Abu talib was dying, Abu Abu Jahal said that Abu talib should not shame their ancestors by accepting the relion of Mu.hammad. This was even on the dying bed of Abi Talib.

Through the difficulties, M.uhammad never wavered. He even said that if the Sun is plced in his right hand and the moon in his lifet hand, he will not desist, until All.ah decided on the religion of Is.lam. It was Surah mariam that King Al Nagash of Ethiopia heard, talking about the humanness of Jesus, that touched the heart of this kind man. He realized that human can not be God. And God will not subject Himself to the humiliations that jesus suffered. He became a mus.lim, convertion from Christianity. It was on the journey to go meet Mu.hammad in Makka, that he died!

The Angel came to M.uhammad to informed of the death of this King. M.uhammad was ordereed to make a prayer of the dead, known salatul ghaib. This is made when the body was not in the from of the one making the prayer.

But no one can convince you about any truth. The thing that we know as human is that a man that has good reputation of speaking the truth, he has a greater chance for his testimony to mean something to the essence of the issue, than testimonies from ever changing and unreliable source(s).

More rabble rousing, no facts at all.

olabowale:

How? My good qualities I took from M.uhammad (AS). Anything bad about me is not from him. Where is your confusion? Go sidon!

"good" qualities like rape, child molestation, robbery, murder and fraud?

olabowale:

Qur'an
The Qur'an forbids extramarital sex.

“ And go not nigh to fornication; surely it is an indecency and an evil way. „
—Qur'an, [Qur'an 17:32]
Moreover, the Qur'an considers extramarital sex as one of the major sins besides polytheism and murder:

The quuran never called it a SIN, it simply says it is an indecency or evil way. It seems you dont understand what SIN really means, it is not just a universal english word but a word derived from the biblical faith that clearly defines a set of spiritual standards for christian living.

Perhaps you need to invent your own lingo and stop your nauseating habit of borrowing from the bible to fill the massive gaps in ur religion.

Hindus consider murder evil and indecent too . . . does that automatically mean they also understand the concept of sin?

olabowale:

Qur'an 49:13   Surah Al-Hujurat (The Inner Apartments)
O mankind! We created you from a single (pair) of a male and a female and made you into nations and tribes that ye may know each other (not that ye may despise each other). Verily the most honored of you in the sight of God is (he who is) the most righteous of you. And God has full knowledge and is well acquainted (with all things).

yet more incoherent babble saying absolutely nothing. DEFINE THE CONCEPT OF SIN FROM THE QUURAN . . . all these meaningless quoting does nothing but expose the fact that urs is a religion built on shifting sands.

olabowale:

2) "The The Great Book teaches that killing one man may be like killing the whole of mankind, and saving a man may be equivalent to saving humanity."

the same quuran says to run after the infidels and smite their necks . . . which one shld we believe?

olabowale:

In context:

QUR'AN [5.32] For this reason did We prescribe to the children of Israel that whoever slays a soul, unless it be for manslaughter or for mischief in the land, it is as though he slew all men; and whoever keeps it alive, it is as though he kept alive all men; and certainly Our apostles came to them with clear arguments, but even after that many of them certainly act extravagantly in the land.

yet more intelligible nonsense. When was this nonsense "prescribed" and WHY dont the Israelites have ANY record of this "prescription"?

olabowale:

This example is enough. Now, man, do your own research on the rest.

you did nothing but run around the issue as usual.

olabowale:

David, why don't you make your own research? You are a smart man. Smart people don't mae uneducated statement like this. You seem to be blind. I want you to open your eyes and mind and heart for success.

but for respect for ur age i would have labelled you a disgraceful liar with no moral scrupples at all. WHERE IS THE RED SEA DESCRIBED IN THE BIBLE? PLS PUT UP A GEOGRAPHY MAP AND SHOW US.

olabowale:

I did. You should get your facts straight, brother man.

facts like how pharaoh's body was discovered INTACT after thousands of yrs in a red sea that is yet to be discovered?   What a shame.

olabowale:

For example, before Jesus, Muh.ammad spoke in full about Moses and Pharaoh.

Pray tell us from the quuran . . . where was Moses buried?

olabowale:

He spoke about the future discovery of the body of the drowned at sea Pharaoh of Moses. His body is in Egypt, as we speak for all to see.

You are a shameless liar. Every single pharaoh discovered where found in tombs around Egypt, notably Luxor. This are widely available on the internet. NOT ONE PHARAOH HAS BEEN RECOVERED FROM ANY SEA!
If pharaoh was drowned at the sea, how did he suddenly reappear in the tomb of the kings? Did he fly?

olabowale:

Help yourself about this. Your Bible does not contain this part of the matter of that Pharaoh.

the quuran, in pretending to speak about this issue, simply made a fool of itself and exposed it to more ridicule.

olabowale:

Muha.mmad (AS), also spoke about how Joseph restored his own honor, by demanding that the king request the wife of his former master tell the absolute truth of what happened between them. Check your Bible if you have that information in it.

Was moohammad there? How did he know?

The rest of your psychobabble is not worth a second read. I wouldnt expect a 5 yr old to write that.

olabowale:

@4Him: Am still piping mad. lol. People this is a joke between David and I. I am never angry at him.
In Surah Azhab, Alla.h the almighty commands that Mus.lims should give salaam to M.uhammad, if the mu.slims know what benefits them. All.ah says that He the Lord God and His Angels give salaam on the Prophet! (AS, yah anabihi Karim). Mu.hammad in an authentic Hadith says that when salaam is given to him, from any part of the globe, the Angel brings it to him and his soul is return to him to accept it. Then Alla.h says about the Prophets and true pious people, He has commanded the earth to to consume their bodies. This was the reason that after all the centuries, the body of Prophet Joseph was exhumed in Egypt and transported along with the Bani Israel in their exodus. As to the condition of the body, it was fresh as if he had just died! And when there was a situation in Madina to exhume the body of one of the companions of our prophet (AS), in the process of moving his body to another grave, his skin was pricked by mistake and there gushes out fresh blood. This incident was after a long time that he had died. I believe the name of the companion is Abbass bin Abdul Mutalib (Abbass the Uncle of Mu.hammad was the person whom the prophet demostrated the stoppage of interest on: Read the farewell address of the prophet). It is very interesting that the grandfather of the prophet, Abdul Mutalib, is named so, because people considered him as a slave of mutalib. Who was Mutalib? He was Abdul Mutalib's uncle. I think Abdul Mutalib's mother was from Taif or Yathrib.

What the reason for this tidbit about Abdul Mutalib? Just to demostrate that the people were used to naming themselves slave of this or that. But in all of the 360 Idols inside the Kaaba, there was no one of them named God. And very interestingly, there was a time that the Kaaba did not contain any idol, a time before they brought the very first one!

another irrelevant tome. Where in this entire epistle have you addressed the question - WHERE WAS THE TERM "SPIRIT OF TRUTH" EVER USED IN THE QUURAN?

olabowale:

Show us when anybody ever called Jesus, Emmanuel? I think your feet need to be held to the fire! It burns, man. AlQur'an only helps to filter out the correct, palusible verses in the Bible. Diggit?

why is the quuran so desperate to tie itself to the bible? Cannot it stand on its own like the bible?

olabowale:

Mu.hammad (as) comforts me. I dreamt about him. His words in the hadith are the very fountain of my Comfort, after the AlQur'an. It explain the AlQur'an. Unlike your making it up as you go along. Everyone with his own interpretation. So bathing in the blood, while others don't know jack! I wonder if a man and his followers suffered 13 years and then another 2 on top of that in the hands of evil people, should he not follow the command of His Creator,to face the enemies? Moses came from Median to Egypt, not wading or ford through the sea. But he came on land. However, when All.ah the Almighty wanted to destroy Pharaoh by drowning, because of his arrogance, Alka.h made Moses chose a route that will take them through the sea. Did Moses decided to take the land route, that will be against the command of his Lord? Hardly. Did King David refused to kill Goliat and all those evil people he fought, in the many wars that he waged?

You should be ashamed of yourself, David. You are named after this warmongering king in the bible! I did not see you changing that name. Your god Jesus is also honored by an attachment to the house of this warmongering King! (Well, I am looking at things from the Bible. When I look at it from the AlQur'an, I love Prophet Daud (AS)!)

Wasn't David accused of adultery with a wife of one of his subjects and murder of the husband of that woman? Iwo man yi.

Yawn. Another long epistle that FAILED to address the simple question - WHERE IS THE TERM "COMFORTER" USED TO DESCRIBE MOOHAMMAD IN THE QUURAN?

olabowale:

Didn't Muhamm.ad say that Isla.m will absorb the whole of Arab penisula?

Is that a prophecy? Is'lam conquered the arab peninsula through war, intimidation and coercion and you claim that as a prophecy? Shame on you.

olabowale:

Didn't Muh.ammad say that Is.lam will reach every corner of the Globe?

Another poor claim for a prophecy? Is'lam has reached the corners of the globe (which it hasnt) via suicide bombers, terrorists, war, famine and constant over-exaggerated and carefully orchestrated "outrages".

olabowale:

Didn't Muha.mmad talk about returning to makka traumphantly?

I will return to Nigeria someday with my degree . . . is that a prophecy?

olabowale:

Didnt Mu.hammad talk about Abu Lahab death in a particular fashion?

Obasanjo will soon die of old age - please mark that one down as a prophecy too.

olabowale:

Did he not talk about Rome defeating Persia?

How is that a prophecy? The Romans and Persians had been at war since 105 BC.

olabowale:

What about the discovery of Moses evil Pharaoh's body? Brother Babs, will handle will continue from here.

This one is a blatant lie . . .  its so bad i fear you are simply an example of why it is easy for a muuslim to be a terrorist. They believe just about any pile of hogwash they are told even in the face of overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

ajadrage:

i must give kudos to the poster at least make e no be like say all the efforts wey you dey make na in vain. i believe that some energy must have been expended by you in posting all that you have posted. but my dear, anything that does not add value to living or knowledge or existence is not worthy to even be thought of. i am sorry for all those who would take your posts (which has no corroboration nor confirmation) seriously. . . sorry

@ajadrage
If this doesn't sound true to you, then there is nothing good that you can believe in. This gospel narrates what Jesus actually said -uneditted. By a disciple not by someone who saw him not. Which is to be believed if you're honest?

@Lady

2. Paul did not introduce the trinity concept, it was already there in the beginning, it is in the Torah

Can you please show me the trinity concept in the Torah?

They have everything to put into the religion but nothing to show for it on judgment day hence Jesus' saying that 'what would it profit a man who gain the whole world and lose his soul. ?

This is because you are God and you know what is going on with every single one of us?

Oya tell what we have not gained by putting everything into the religion.

Since muuslims have so much to show for what they've put in the religion, show me.
Show me what you have gained. Show what muuslims have gained.

I am not God sister Efeosa but I gave you verse from your book and if you care, I can give you Q uranic verse butressing the above quote lifted from your bible. You can go to Chapter 3, 5 etc of my Holy Book and educate yourself and tell me your (Christian) position before God.

@~Lady~:
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Do not let me refresh your memory of how Isl'am spread, please. Does this line ring a bell? "Choose Isl'am or death" those were the words used to spread Is'lam.
[/quote]

You are from Benin. Tell me how many swords were put against the ancient city? I hope you have heard of the history of what the English man did, with his Bible on one hand and gunon the other? The Bini King mother mask, which was the symbol of Festac, in 1977, was part of the loots/booties of the European Christians.

I already know that you are just making a religious talking points. The substance behind it, is zero. How did Is.lam pilaged Malaysia and Indonesia, etc, except by just good human to human relationships? How did Isla.m entered Ibadan, Ijebu Ode (my home town), Abeokuta, etc and indeed lagos? How many people killed by maurading arabs or yoruba on yoruba killings? Muy mother's homtown of Owo, a mere 77 miles to Benin, how did is.lam enteed it?

If the Arabs had said to the Arab, choose I.slam or death, would there remain any significant, non Mu.slims in that part of the world? There are many verses in the AlQur'an that talks about the non compulsion of religion.

I think You had taken I.slam for Christian Spain, under Queen Isabella and King Ferdnand, in the period of Spanish Polgrom dubbed Spanish Inquisition. Was there a mu.slim spare to remain alive in this madness of the Christian elites? Go and study the history of the world and then come back for good dialogue on this.

Or have you forgotten about the "holy wars" or "jihad"? IT WASN'T SPREAD WITH PEACE BUT WITH VIOLENCE.
So much for a peaceful religion.

You need to know the meaning of jihad (arabic word for struggle), before we can even talk about this. I struggle all day long. I remember when Madrassa became a terrible word in the West. Madrassa is an arabic word school, just Ecole is it in French! How is school becomes such a terrible word? And they sucjkered you to accept that Jihad mean other than struggle! I now see why you will think that when a comforter addressed his audience that another comforter will come, it was himself he was talking about, and not a different and separate comforter.

Don't for a minute compare it to Christianity. Christianity spread largely because of persecution. Christians were fleeing for their lives and that created the greatest spread of Christianity. Christians were being killed because of their beliefs, not because they want to wage war in the name of God.

I will not compare it to Christianity. Yes, Christianity spread per persecution; the persecution of other people. Ask the South African Black about their experience under the heavy hands of the Afrikaan, who mainly Dutch and English. Ask the Congolese about their experience under belgium. Ask the Mozambique people about their experience with Portugal. I could go on and on. But I think the picture is clear. Am sure that Christians are fleeing for their lives in Iraq now and also in Afghanistan. Please why don't you google and watch videos of "Christian Missionary Atrocities." Am sure you have conscience. I think so, at least. And who were killing these Christians as you quoted, above? Musl.ims?

I am not insinuating that you claim that Christianity is true. I stated that Christianity spread because people came to find out that it was the truth. God was proven and foud truthful and he didn't have to threaten anyone. People converted to Isl'am because they didn't want to be killed. I thought in Isl'am one had a choice. I know there is no choice, history has proven it with the wars that led to many conversions, it is still being proven today by those muuslims who want to leave but can't because they fear for their lives. In Is'lam there is no choice. "Choose Isl'am or death" is not a choice, it's a coercion.

The convertion of Mu.slims in America was by force? You live here and I also live here. I think we know the truth. You do not know Isl.am and I know Is.lam. I am a better authority on it that you. Zainab, an Owerri woman, converted not by force, but her own choice. I told her she should think about Is.lam. Alhamdulillah, her heart went to it right there and them! I do not know if the musli.ms people where they had majority position, there would not have been anyone in their community who is but a mus.lim.

All the more reason for me to believe that Muhaaamad got his stories from the Bible. Do the below passages seem familiar in message to what you have posted from the Qu'ran? Hopefully you will be able to understand it.

Familiarity, is not exactness. My Children look like me when you see them, yet they are not me!

Resisting the truth:

“You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you. Which of the prophets did your fathers not persecute? And they killed those who foretold the coming of the Just One, of whom you now have become the betrayers and murderers, " Acts 7:51-53

You are giving me words of the apostles. But no words of jesus. But interestingly, I.slam never take it that a child of a disbeliever will also be a disbeliever. Rather it encourages the generation to accept guidance, providing examples of nations who are doomed because of their failure to receive guidance. You see pure Mercy at play?

"Then they cried out with a loud voice, stopped their ears, and ran at him with one accord; and they cast him out of the city and stoned him. And the witnesses laid down their clothes at the feet of a young man named Saul. And they stoned Stephen as he was calling on God and saying, 'Lord Jesus, receive my spirit.' Then he knelt down and cried out with a loud voice, 'Lord, do not charge them with this sin.' And when he had said this, he fell asleep." Acts 7:57- 60
(This is done to many Christians in muuslim nations, this fact you cannot deny)

First, stephen, above died, not slept. And his death did not occur at the hands of mu.slims. If he called Jesus, Lord, then be assured that he is destined for fire. Since you asked me questions about Mu.slims and Chri.stians, then i will ask you, what is happening in Iraqand Afghanistan, presently? Who is killing more of the other: Musli.ms or christians? Have you heard about the killing of Mus.lims in the former Yugoslavian federations? Who slaughtered who? I am sure somebody will yell; Olabowale its not religion, but political! Cowdung, I say!

"But they refused to heed, shrugged their shoulders, and stopped their ears so that they could not hear. Yes, they made their hearts like flint, refusing to hear the law and the words which the Lord of hosts had sent by His Spirit through the former prophets. Thus great wrath came from the Lord of hosts. " Zechariah 7:11-12
(Also note the Holy Spirit being mentioned here, this is a part of the Old Testament, Zechariah was a Prophet, and you were saying the Holy Spirit was not mentioned in the Old Testament)

Please read the cative part of this sentence, "sent by 'His Spirit' through the former prophets." As I read this, The spirit of Godhere simply means the "Angel" that brings the words of God which is now said to the people through the "Speeches and deeds" of the former prophets. You now see that The Spirit will not just begin to talk to anybody, delivering God Messages to Man, except it is delivered to the heart of the Prophet and he the prophet in turn pass it on to the people as well as actually being the beacon of example of it. Now you see how terrible it is that the "another comforter" could never be anything other than a spirit supported human prophet! You see why we have been talking about Angel gabreil is the holy Spirit, and he is not equal to God? (Thank God that He made you reearch this verse all by yourself!).

"Your own wickedness will correct you, and your backslidings will rebuke you.
Know therefore and see that it is an evil and bitter thing
That you have forsaken the Lord your God, and the fear of Me is not in you,”
Says the Lord God of hosts." Jeremiah 2:19
(Oh you were looking for a verse that says God is speaking, well there's one too, but let's not get off topic)

I hope you will also show where Paul spoke. You will also show where the desciples of jesus spoke. You will also show wher the prophets spoke. Whats your point? I never said there was nothing in the bible that God said!

“Son of man, you dwell in the midst of a rebellious house, which has eyes to see but does not see, and ears to hear but does not hear; for they are a rebellious house." Ezekiel 12:2
(This one is also prophecying about Jesus, we can't deny Christ called himself Son of man, you were trying to prove that, but back to topic)

I hope you will pay attention of his description: Son of man. Get it! Remember he was supposed to dwell in the midst of rebelious house, blind even though they have eyes, deaf even though they have ears: Would this not be his people. His community. His followers. The m.uslims are free of this. Alhamdulillah. The Bible does not address us. Just like the Torah does not address the Christians.

Everyone will deceive his neighbor,
And will not speak the truth;
They have taught their tongue to speak lies;
They weary themselves to commit iniquity.
Your dwelling place is in the midst of deceit;
Through deceit they refuse to know Me,” says the Lord." Jeremiah 9:5

But God always has those who do not turn away from him

This above is talking about Jews at best. But I will definitely propose that it is talking about the christians, as well.

"Behold, a king will reign in righteousness,
The eyes of those who see will not be dim,
And the ears of those who hear will listen." Isaiah 32:1-3
(This is one in particular is a prophecy about Jesus)

You wished. I don't see his name attached to it! He was supposed to be called Emmanuel. Not a single day did anyone called him that. And after this colossal, you want me to believe this? THis could pass for any prophet after Isiah. That is if the statement is true. Jesus was never a king anyhow. lol.

Jesus said to them, ", it has been given to you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given, I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand. And in them the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled, which says:
‘Hearing you will hear and shall not understand,
And seeing you will see and not perceive;
For the hearts of this people have grown dull.
Their ears are hard of hearing,
And their eyes they have closed,
Lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears,
Lest they should understand with their hearts and turn,
So that I should heal them.’
"But blessed are your eyes for they see, and your ears for they hear; for assuredly, I say to you that many prophets and righteous men desired to see what you see, and did not see it, and to hear what you hear, and did not hear it." Matthew 13:11-17
(Well Christ sums it up right here)

But just to add a bit more, here's what God said about false prophets:

Jesus only repeated what othe prophets said. It means those prophets were also the examples that he followed.

21 I did not send these prophets,
yet they have run with their message;
I did not speak to them,
yet they have prophesied.
22 But if they had stood in my council,
they would have proclaimed my words to my people
and would have turned them from their evil ways
and from their evil deeds.

23 "Am I only a God nearby,"
declares the LORD,
"and not a God far away?

24 Can anyone hide in secret places
so that I cannot see him?"
declares the LORD.
"Do not I fill heaven and earth?"
declares the LORD.

25 "I have heard what the prophets say who prophesy lies in my name. They say, 'I had a dream! I had a dream!' 26 How long will this continue in the hearts of these lying prophets, who prophesy the delusions of their own minds? 27 They think the dreams they tell one another will make my people forget my name, just as their fathers forgot my name through Baal worship. 28 Let the prophet who has a dream tell his dream, but let the one who has my word speak it faithfully. For what has straw to do with grain?" declares the LORD. 29 "Is not my word like fire," declares the LORD, "and like a hammer that breaks a rock in pieces?
(hmm sounds like muhaaamad doesn't it?)

30 "Therefore," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who steal from one another words supposedly from me. 31 Yes," declares the LORD, "I am against the prophets who wag their own tongues and yet declare, 'The LORD declares.' 32 Indeed, I am against those who prophesy false dreams," declares the LORD. "They tell them and lead my people astray with their reckless lies, yet I did not send or appoint them. They do not benefit these people in the least," declares the LORD.

All these are from Jeremiah 23

Since you do not know anything about the AlQur'an, I hope you will do your research. You will see that the noblest of all Prophets/Messengers never fit a classification of falsehood. You will see where All.ah the almighty said that if he had merely got lukewarmed about his duties he would have been dealt with. I will not keep respondig to thes, line by line.

15Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves. Matthew 7

11And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many Matthew 24

24For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
Matthew 24

22For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect. Mark 13 (Notice how this resembles the one above, they were written by different people, tell me did everyone just happen to forget the real events and remember the same thing years later?)

Will these above not fit Paul and all the falsifications in the New Testament, since thats your real concern?

Are you waiting for me to point out the different editions/revisions of the Qu'ran?

Maybe I am. I will tell you exactly what AlQur'an is. You need to know anyway.


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Yeah the story of Moses and Pharoah had already happened and was documented at that time by Moses himself. I understand your view of the inspiration I just don't agree with it.
I am telling you that everything written in the Bible and Torah were written by inspirations from God. Not that the events were inspirations but that God let these people know the importance of documentation so that when a false witness comes up and says this is what really happened we can let them know that the event was well documented at the time it took place so a different version of it, would only be false. As in Moses and the other Prophets themselves wrote down the events as they took place and that these writings did not surface in 325 AD but were there over ages and were written as the events took place by the actual eyewitnesses and actual characters.
Basically saying, I will write a better story of my life than you Olabowale, who never met me, would.

That is why I would take the Bible's words over the Qu'ran's words any day.
[/quote]

First, since the Bible is long time before the AlQur'an, you therefore claim it it must be correct. Its not like that, my friend. Afterall, if I use the defeat of Pharaoh in the sea, as our example. We will see that the Bible does not provide us with what happened to Pharaoh. But the AlQur'an, the new kid on the block told us that Pharaoh body was coughed out by the sea, as a sign of his peril for future generation to see. I am sure it will be wise if you verify my claim, directly. If you find me to be a liar, then make your demand on me. If I am correct, them should i make my demand on you? Can you accept this challenge, if you are certain of your religion?

Just to amuse you: If I speak with your parents, I will write a more detailed story about your life. Especially the years before the wonder years. I may even begin with the courtship of your parents. Afterall, that was a period you were not even thought of as a person. You were still future, then, in the spiritual realm.

Yeah the problem with the Qu'ran being from God 100% is that it went through angel gabriel. I was really thinking that God spoke to muhaamad, but he still had to go through someone---angel gabriel, which just about refutes your claim that because the writings in the Bible were by men then it must be words from men alone.

You can scream and bang your head all you want that the Qu'ran is 100% from God, you have only proven that it is not.

No one is going to scream and bang head here. You should know that Malaika Jibril is not man, human. He is from a being, a spiritual being, created from light. He is Ruuh Qudus.

This is because it is simply impossible for God to use him or because you have assumptions as to what's in the Bible or just because you were told so right from the craddle by people who did not hold any knowledge on the Bible and its sayings.

Glory belongs to All.ah, who had made my mother converted to I.slam. Her father died a while back, as a christian. This man who was my grandfather was one of the founding father of the methodish church, in Owo. Anyhow, I am grateful that my mother at age 80 plus and climbing finally, accepted I.slam. I guess Shehk Yusuf Estes of Islamtomorrow.com does not have any knowledge in the Bible. I guess my A1 in the Bible Knowledge in the days was not good knowledge. I remember that wecwere told to write for and against Judas Iscariot betrayal.

PLEASE, PLEASE,PLEASE Show me how he bastardized the 10 commandments. I have heard this argument before, but for the sake of those following this thread, I would like it if you would post your comment on this issue, so that the devil may be put to shame.
PLEASE post it.

Is there a definite order for circumcision? And was Jesus not Circumcised? Is there an order not to eat pork, etc? Did Jesus ate any of those animals? If I stop at these two, and then reference Jesus statement about fulfilment of these laws. He, Jesus did not stop there, but said that anyone who did not follow all of the laws (10 Commandments being the core of it), or also encouraged anyone not to follow it, even the smallest part of it, such a person will be called "Least," in the kingdom of heaven.

Now explain to me what kingdom of heaven means? Explain to me what least in the kingdom of heaven means/ Explain to be what the smallest part of the laws, that Jesus himself followed and obeyed means? Explain to me what Jesus meant by putting this warning out, about the conditions that could be prevailing at some point without him not being around?

Now tell me what Paul did? Now go up on the ladder and tell me about the 1, 2 and 3 commandments, dealling with God! Tell me where you have graven image, associating Jesus with God Almighty when he Jesus said in Mark 12 Verse 29 that His and his audience God is but a Single (Big ONE) Lord?

I will consult God on the matter and he will guide me. What smells funny? The Bible? Because you don't understand it. You have made claims on the Bible. You have said that the Bible has claimed many things that it did not (I showed you that you were lying or unaware of the contents of the Bible), when will you understand that the Bible truly contains the Word of God.

The Bible contains, ideas about what God may say or His words, but then it contains also, the words and deeds of prophets, companions of prophets, and that of ordinary people. Absolutely, the Acts are words and deeds of companions, etc and the the epistles are from others., eg paul. Didn't i read a description of multiheadded monster or some beast in the Bible? That can't be from God, because the man who was talking was on earth and he was not even prophet Jesus!

Why do you still believe you have the truth? I am not stubborn but steadfast in the truth. You have only proved the Qu'ran to be a lie. I had more respect for the Qu'ran when I didn't know so much about it thatn I do now that I know more about it. I had more respect for Muhaamad when I thought he was a prophet of God, than I do now to know that the man was a false prophet.

You are stubborn.I know a stubborn woman, when I see one. Now tell me how you say AlQur'an is a lie? A false prophet will say things that will never come to pass. Right? Tell me what Mu.hammad said that the time apportioned for it to pass elapsed and it did not happen? Just making a statement of tit for tat will not cut it with me.

This is angel gabriel right? Let me know when God speaks.

Lets just assume for example that Connie Rice went to Germany and read a prepared statement from George Bush. Who is really the speaker? I am saying whose words are they? Am not asking you who is the messenger, the message carrier,. No. I am asking you whose office is speaking: The white house or the State Department? Maybe you will finally get it.

And by the way thre is a verse in the AlQur'an where Jibril was allowed to tell Mu.hammad by the command of alla.h, that he jibril does not come down, except by the permission of All.ah. Who do you think was the Authority speaker of this verse?

I am talking about history. Spirituality would only prove both the Qu'ran and Bible correct, but history would prove the Qu'ran false and the Bible correct.

I read something about history, where a historian says that history is where 20 historians write 20 different facts about the same event. Each of the 20 writers thinks that he has the facts right, even though what he writes is different what each of the other 19 wrote. If you are banking your fate on history, please think twice, about it.

No one will be Judged based on the facts on the history. Everyone will be Judgesd based on true God piety.

Oh trust me I have asked questions about the Bible and I received answers that is why I am a Christian today. Besides this is about you proving the Qu'ran to me remember? If the Qu'ran is true certainly it can withold on its own without saying "well the Bible did it too?" it wouldn't be soo childish in its response. God is not childish and he can hold on his own.

Trust me I am not refusing to accept it, it's just not being proven to me.

There are many chapters and stories that the Bible does not have, yet they are in the AlQur'an. Luqman is a very good example. What is amazing though, is that could you have imagined if the story of moses and Pharaoh was not in the AlQur.an? Would people mnot have a great excuse, like I can't believe this. This Book the AlQur'an is talking about mankind yet it did not have anything about a well known event like this and that. The fact that the story in it is more detailed and superior in thought than what you will find in the bible is a direct testimony to its very essence.

Because I am looking at it with a clear objective, I am asking the questions that you cannot answer. I will throw all sorts of questions at you, because I like to look deep into things and I like to analyse things especially if you are going to make the claim that it is the truth, then you absolutely must prove to me that it is the truth. You have made a claim, now you have to back it up. Don't tell me to accept and believe until you prove to me that it is the truth to believe. When I see loop holes I will point them out and question them, it is up to you to tighten these loop holes.

I have found no loop hole. None. But what you have not done is ask any question except that you are uncomfortable that the AlQur'an critique the Bible and said things about Jesus. But the things said about Jesus were just the facts and since there is never a single Bible from the time Is.lam declared corruptions in it, these should tell you that the AlQur'an is very consistent.

The same claim can be made about the Bible being 100% from God through his angels and his prophets. Because in the Bible we do see that God is speaking directly to the prophets. So why shouldn't I believe the Bible too?

But in the Bible, you have statements of others: Apostles, Disciples, etc. These hardly qualify for god and His Angels. Bu AlQur'an is 100% God, alone.

No. Now as a Christian I am told in the Bible that there would be those who claim that they have received revelations from God, and that God has spoken to them and they will say that "The Lord says". I am told that they are false prophets and are ready to lead me astray, that they speak what is in their hearts, ike I have said Muhaamad has, since he did not understand what he heard in scriptures, he decided that his own interpretaions of it is the way, to him it's just impossible that God could have a Son since to have children one has to copulate, he could not understand that God can have himself in human form and in Spirit and he viewed these as separate "bodies" which in fact they are not. If Muhaamad understood and knew what was contained in the Bible you won't be asking the questions of whether or not Jesus said this or Jesus said that or was he worshipped or wasn't worshipped.
Why should I now, seeing the signs of muhhaaamad being a false prophet, believe him?

But there is no verse in the AlQur'an that says "The Lord says!." What we have is "Say!" See the difference? The Lord says mantra is a gimmck among you, not us. Read your Bible, agan. Then pick up the AlQur'an! You can see how your are wrong about the noble Soul, Al Mustapha (AS)! First, there is no one that understands the "scriptures," from the onset. If there is, such a person will not need your "christian leaders," to explain anything. People are cajoled to "beleif by faith!" This is called blind faith. Remember now? Why would something staright forward be believed by blind faith? "Interpretation," that you the Christian uses shows that you are seeking that very explanation that is different from what is obvious. Why would you be interpreting if the answer is staring you in the face? Hidden message is always what you come up with, different and apart from the obvious. Mu.hammad, did not "interprete" Where did that come from?

Did the Jews also "interprete," since they refuse to accept Jesus as a mere prophet, like others whom they accepted before him? I do not have to even go to the more "advanced" stage of statement of sonship because you will have to tell me that Jesus was accepted by "Benjamin Nathayanhu, Israk Shemir, etc," first, before I post this colossal of sonship question from Jewish point of view, about Jesus. I hope I did not speak "ebonic" here?

How do children come about, again, except by "Copulation?" Any other form is falsehood. Please tell me how God becomes the father of God, now? You will see how "abnormal," your explanation is? (I read a little bit about how you are explaining your belief concept above; God turning Himself to human. But while He is in this stage, He is son of God! Wow! Is this logical, by any degree, except that one will have to be beat down to just "have to believe it!" You see how terrible this whole thing is?

Osanobua

If Osanobua, is still accept by all in Bini language to mean God, why are you people blowing up fuses about Al.lah being the same exact thing in Arabic language? Is God in English language not what Jews, Christians and M.uslims call their own groups individual Lord the Almighty Creator, in Florida, Georgia, etc?

Oh this is good, very good. So why now, must he be called A'llah if his name is Oluwa, Osanobua, Jehovah, Elohim, Eli, why must it be A'llah? Why did it change from Elohim? Did he call himself A'llah when he spoke to Moses or Elijah or Abraham or did he call himself Eli, Elohim, I AM?
How then did Abraham, Moses, Jacob, Isaac, Jesus, and more call him A'llah when they did not speak Arabic? If he already identified himself to others as another name, why can't we just call him by the other name, why A'llah?

When i read AlQur'an in Arabic, I call Him Al.lah, His proper name. Thas what He calls Himself for the most part. When I speak religiously to a m.uslim, also, if i want. Al.lah, Ellio are two semitic sound words, which have similar meaning and sound extremely close, within the veriation of ethnic tongue/intonation/accent. Thank God, Ellio, All.ah that Sheniqua provided what igbo people call goat in comparison to what the yoruba people call it. You will hear that they both call it the same way, same thing except the tribal accent essential minor difference. All.ah and ellio are very similar. Try it yourself. (If I say Osanobua, in front of Bini elder, i may be correct in my own way, the elder will know that my accent is different. For example Sheniqua always write my name with O, instead of A. Thats how it sounds to her. Unfortunately, in Yoruba language the A and O have different meaning when it comes to my name, although similar.)

The Christian and Jewish Arabs call him that out of respect for the Arabs. And because unlike you muuslims we know that God is not confined to a particular name in a particular language. He has identified himself in many different names, how then are those names not proper? I assure you the Jewish and Christian Arabs, know him as Jehovah, Elohim, Jesus, and more.

Thats there own language. You should find an Arab christian and ask if there is a different in Arabic Christian mind about Christian All.ah and Christian Isa? If Christian Al.lah and Isa is the same, I wonder who Isa was praying to in the garden asking that the cup be removed from off his head, who he cried to on the cross as All.a, All.ah, and who did he comit his ruuh to when he expired? Himself Isa or his Creator All.ah? (I am using Christian Arab lingo now!). Is lady, ~lady~, Efe, your proper first name? Of course, not! Apply the same thing here. God wanted everything to be clear to you.

Only difference is Christ did not nullify the scripture but proves it. He did not claim it to be false and corrupted. He preached it, he announced it and reminded the Jews of it. Big difference from a man who claims the scriptures that he has heard to be corrupted. They didn't ignore Christ my dear, they paid attention to him and that's why he was crucified. He claimed to be what they were expecting and they didn't expect him in the form he came. Muhaamad just flat out ignored what the scriptures says and calls it false, so nope not the same thing.
My arguments are not weak and you know it.

If Christ did not nullify the Jewish Scripture but proved it, then I have to ask you to provide logical explanation to how any of the part of the 10 Commandments can be ignored, except by mere corruptions, evil desires, etc that was introduced into the NT, after Jesus left the earth? Do you now see by your own admission and concept of "supposed' continuity of the OT with the period of Jesus on earth, changes must have developed and introduced into the NT in the absence of Jesus? Please pay great attention to your own words and ideas and concepts. Am just acting upon your words.


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Yes you did. You were posting the Qu'ran to me. If it's not in the Qu'ran then let me know. Have some kind of note to say that this is not the Qu'ran.
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My bad. In the future, I will let you know that.

Nope not the same way. The Protestants say we are not Christians after they hear our beliefs. If Muhaamad had not started telling people of his revelation (because this was his first revelation) how could they have started persecuting him?

Read it again. The christian man knew, based on past reactions of mankind to prophets (AS), before this, he was stating that they will (a future thing to happen), persecute him! And incidentally, they did. Read the history of the m.uslims in Makka before the entered it in victory.


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Ok I went back and read it and see that I misread you there. Lol, I can only laugh at the thought that the Jews were looking out for a prophet child to kill. I thought Muhaamad was like other prophets, please tell me which other prophet did anyone look out for to kill because they knew he would be a prophet. They didn't try to kill Jesus o, not until he started his ministry.
You didn't answer my question about Khadijah.
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Did Jesus parents not take him to Egypt at some point in his childhood, to escape some possible plot to kill him? I wonder if they did not try to kill Jesus as a child, then as a grown up, did he run away to Egypt, as god, son of god or prophet in the making which is yet undeclared? You will argue yourself out with me. If Jesus ever ran away and hid himself because a plot against his life, then we will have to say that he could never have been a ny different than other prophets; declared or undeclared when they escaped. Moses escaped from Egypt. Jesus escaped at some point, long before they finally caught up with him. When did they kill John who Barmitva Jesus, again? How old was he? All of these will show you that these men behaved like human prophets. Going through the trials of their duties. So that we can see that true faith is something not easy.


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What outcome above? All I said was about false prophets. Just because he is revered doesn't mean that he is not a false prophet. Just because something is popular and adored doesn't mean it is right. It has become the belief of millions of people worldwide that sex before marriage is not wrong, does that make it right?
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Falsehood can be attached to anything. Reality is very clear. For example, Jesus is truly a false god and false son of God? Reason: God has no son and there is Only One God, whom no human eyes have ever seen! Now this is reality. I am not making a false accusation, or even an ordinary accusation. Since you are saying that, we also have seen people who claimed to be husband and wife, but it is all asham. The truth about their relationship in their hearts is not being told to even themselves. They continued to deceive themselves and others as well.


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The US Supreme court has his personage as one of the few on the facade of the cour house. Brooklyn Public library or the Museum on Eastern parkwayhas his name as No 1 of all important persons among 100 of the world. By the way Jesus or Moses was No 2 while the other was No 3. Is Isla.m the dominant religion in America? No! Yet they find Mu.hammad to be the most appropriate man to be No 1!


Does this prove that he is not a false prophet? NO!!!
The citizens of US. think it is proper that people cohabitate before marraige, does this make it good? NO!!!
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And it does not mean that he was not a true prophet, either! And it is the same people of th United states that are cahmpioning "Christianity," around the world! I wonder how they missed all thes essential ingredients of true belief, if it is? I have seen so much missionary nudity in todays africa. I pity the african male who is cajoled by that which made him become a christian. (This is what should be called Christianize them by any means necessary. Including the most evil ways. "Please Google the videos of ' Christian missionary atrocities' , then enter Afghanistan and then iraq and any othe country of your choice.)



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Um they said important, not appropriate. I'm sure George Bush or some president or CEO is up there does that mean that they are appropriate? NO!!!!!
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More important than Moses and your god, remember?



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Jesus never promised "another comforter" he promised "the comforter" the one that has always been there. So there's no former or another as you believe.
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I have posted the verse that says another comfoter. If you continue to deny that another comforter is what is written in the bible, what can you wager with me, so that I can take the time out again to post the verse, once again. I do not want your money. you are student. There is no money in this world that can satisfy me. I am an Ijebu man and i know how to make money. Keep your mone, lose your faith will be my idea here. Are you ready?

But how can Jesus promised for the future " the comforter," according to you, "the one that has always been there?" I promise Efeosa to your mother as a daughter. Is she not the daughter that has always been there for this mother? Symmatics!



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1. Jesus said there is none greater
2. He NEVER refused the title, that is why your Qu'ran acknowledges him as the messiah
3. Barnabas was not a disciple of Christ, so the gospel that he wrote was in accordance to him witnessing
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No one greater than Jesus among the Jews. That did not mean anything to the rest of the world. When Jesus said this, he was dealing with his community alone. We see that he only ministerd to his people. And not the rest of the world. Now the AlQur'an becomes the criterion when it is necessary, right? Is this not the hypocracy that you accused the mu.slims for that you are practicing? And if Barnabas account is not acceptable, then the same must be accorded Paul, since he was not a disciple, also.

There are four Gospels that have a central theme, that cite the same events, gospel of Barnabas sticks out like a sore thumb. It is the only one that goes against all the writings of that time. The only claim that it can make is that the other Gospels are corrupt (hmm sounds familiar). It is the only gospel that doesn't know the geography of that era. There's so much contradictions with history and the gospel and I am ashamed from muuslims everywhere that you would even consider the content of this fable to be true. It only goes to show the desperation you have to prove Christianity false and yet again fail.

If the yard stick is corroboration of one anothers' story, then they did not do a good job. they did not tell the whole story, one after the other exactly. But interestingly, corroboration will proof therefore that Iraq had a Weapon of mass destructions. My friend, there is truth and there is falsehood corroborated. It does not matter how many corroborated in the falsehood. It is just that, corroborated falsehood that can deceive. It is in there,like Ragu Pasta sauce.

Is Muhamma.d not an Arab? What geography are you talking about. Is the revelation not from God? Who is the Creator of this place that you are talking about its geography? Is A.llah the Almighty God at anytime unaware of this region?

They already had one belief. If you want to know what truly happened at the council please do some extensive research on it. I will try to help you find a reliable source that will truly clarify everything for you. It had been three centuries after the death of Christ, certainly their belief did not start then. In order for them to even come together certainly they already had a belief.

No they did not have one belief. If they did, they would not be haggling about anything at all. But it is very interesting that today you have a tons of beliefs, withing Christianity. for starter the Bible versions. I think i will get there to that section where you insinuated that it does not matter if some chapters are missing a version while other has it.

I am glad that you are suggesting "to help find a reliable source," which tells me that you believe that some information sources out there may be unreliable. Please apply to what you find on the net that is different from what the mus.lims are saying about their faith. Again why do we have so many disagreeing sects today in Christianity about Jesus?

Some believing that Jesus is not god, while others believe it, etc?

Yes, God. Those who penned it down were the disciples of Christ and they wrote exactly what they saw and what they were told by Christ to tell the world. They penned these things down when they saw that the disciples were being killed one by one. The Holy Spirit prompted them to write down these things so that it won't be passed away or watered down as time went on. These were accepted as Gospels because they are disciples of Christ. The other writings were not accepted because they were not directly linked to Christ. Honestly people wrote down things that were not in accordance with the teachings of Christ and it was obvious. The very essence of the message that Christ taught us was conveyed in these Gospels. Nothing to be added nothing to be subtracted.

No, its not God, especially when we can see letters expressing personal opinions written by Paul and others. Wr also read about mundane information., like travelling or moving from place to place. Thats narrations from humans. Thats not from God. (Efeosa, I just can not reply to you line by line. Its not a good effort by me, but i have provided the bases of your going out and read everything that you can read on I.slam. From Mus.lims)

Prove this. How about you take it up with the history of the Jewish people. I'm pretty sure they would not fancy you mixing up their history.
The books of the Bible were written overtime by the prophets of God. Eyewitnesses.

Yes the historical parts offer proof of it. Especially of Jesus' death, resurrection and spread of his ministry. The tomb he was buried in, the hill he was nailed to the cross, the place of his birth, everything lines up together. You're trying to prove the Bible false why don't you prove the Qu'ran true. Tell us the historical facts of the Qu'ran. Certainly proving the Bible false does not prove the Qu'ran to be true. So why do you hold on to the belief in the Qu'ran?

Do you know that mus.lims have had dialogue with Jews and have won them over about the matters concerning Jesu? Do you know that there are many ethnic Jews who are Mus.lims? Even in the time of Prophet Muh.ammad, because they knew he was the prophet they were expecting in Madina? It was the very fact that they were expecting a prophet in Madina that they populated the place, more than any other place in the Arab penisula. They thought that he will come from within them, a birth in Madina. Surprise, he came from Makka to reside in madina. Please read about this and be benefitted.

No because history has proven it so. Not just Jewish history or Christian history, but Roman history, Egyptian history and more. So no matter how much or how long you deny it. It is still the truth.

If Egyptian history had proven it to be true, apart from up to the destruction of Pharaoh and his army, Why do you have the M.uslims domination in Egypt right now? PLease also know that the detail of what happened to the body of Pharaoh is not in the bible, but it is in the AlQur'an. Why are the Jews not for the most part Christians, if they even believe Jesus?

1. Priests don't make a living
2. History already told

There was something called sales of indulgence. Remember? And today there is confession booth in Catholicism. And the Aladuras, The Celestrials, etc of (ja are not even different! Oh, I need to get back to Nigeria for dawah. Am sure you will be there with me. We need to make dawah in Bini, Port Harcourt, etc. I do not forget Sheniqua's village too. Owerri is already in my pocket. Alhamdulillah. All the Emeka's, Ndidis.

Why should we believe Muhaamad and the Imams, by what authority do their words carry, other than the authority that they give themselves? Strip away the claim that the Qu'ran is the "word of God", and who in their right mind would still believe it?

Mu.hammad is th only one in Is.lam who has authority. It is because God Almighty said it directly, in the AlQur'an.

But let's see about the Bible and who in their right mind would believe it even if it's not called the word of God. Oh yes that's right the Jews and the others whom they came in contact with, who were named in the Bible. The destruction of the temple as Christ predicted, the destruction of the temple as Jeremiah predicted. Dude your palying with history of nations (I'll have to come back and list them for you) the Bible doesn't just contain the history of the Jews but the history of others too. Those who came in contact with the Jews have these events in their history also, so are you going to claim that they too have corrupted their history? Everything about the Qu'ran is based on the the events that took place in the Bible which includes the Torah and the New Testament. Don't for one minute think that the Bible was written only after the death of Christ. It was written by Moses and the other Prophets themselves. They had prophecies which came true.

And we see that only a handful, relative to the large population would have fallen for it, anyway. The same place that AlQur'an called Mosque, which is exactly what happened to it. Have you heard Masjid Aqsa? Think about the one whose prediction is the one that came later, yet it is still standing over 1400 years. At best the destruction that Jesus predicted was a mere 600 years. Please compare 1400 years and counting to just 600 years and its over. Which one will you take?

And the Jews, who followed Moses today, do not even believe Jesus. Figure it out. You see how divided the book is?

Stop taking what is applied to Muuslims and apply it to Christians. Christians are encouraged to question the Bible and they do so everyday. That is the reason why you always hear so many people raising questions about the Bible, I know it is very intriguing. I became a Catholic a year and 2 months ago. I had to attend religious classes for one year. I was told to study the Bible and come with questions. Trust me I came with hard questions, just like I'm doing now with Olabowale and I received answers, not just answers that I wanted to accept but answers that put an end to my questions. I came up with as much as I wanted, the Priest was shocked but also very happy that I cared enough about my beliefs to make sure that I am taking the right step. So many people go through that class each year and they are told what things are and why things are done and why they're done a certain way. So trust me Christians are very much told to question their faith.
I know several muuslims who cannot question their faith because they're "cautioned" that the Qu'ran is 100% the word of God and out of fear of God wouldn't even dare question it, oh and also out of fear of dying, they don't want to die or be ridiculed or disowned so they do not question.

I ask questions, always about things that am not clear about. However I do not want twisted interpretation. I don't want interpretation, period. I want direct answer that is directly talking about the issue, when I open my Book. Thats not a faith that is blind. I read it directly, word for word in the AlQur'an.

My dear Nigeria is not in the West and neither is China or India where Christianity is slowly rising. These people have seen the work of the true God and are coming to believe. They feel his love for them and understand him more.

This reminds of a native Ibadan chief statement to his poor neighbors. He said to them, you people are poor on earth, going through the suffering of poverty. If you die as non Musli.ms, you will suffer in hell too much, because no one will defend you against God. These people said to him, Baba, you have spoken well they became mus.lims. I have heard of horror stories about the new pastor financial abuses in nigeria. I would not say that we do not have any in Is.lam. But the Christians take the cake. Why people becoming Christians? Poverty. There is no way that anyone could rationalize the core beklief of Christianity and remain in it, and to accept it, is very strange.

Would this be because the middle east consits of muuslim nations and that the Jews don't even acknowledge Christ as the Christ? duh?

lol. You see how you fluctuate between reality and fantasy at the same time, on this matter? It is a fact that the jews know about signs of prophethood, and since they believed that Jesus was a false prophet, maybe because his followers are hinting that he was more than a normal prophet, etc. They plotted to kill him so that his soul could be accurse, if he is truly a blasphamer, by claiming that he was more than a normal prophet, since they expected a true prophet to just say that he was a prophet.

The fact that he was a true prophet, because the Jews would not be plotting against him for just being a prophet, would they? Maybe it he is going against their belief, and or he is going against their warped human hypocracy. God accepted his prayer of fear of death and he did not get crucified, and he did not die on the cross.

You premise is easily defeated. But I admire your courage to be honest.

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Why would you call the Qu'ran the only true Bible, do you know what Bible means?
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I think that he misspoke. Maybe because he is addressing a Christian.

I would like to differ. I have friends who were born and raised in the north of Nigeria, and they are strong and devout Catholics. I have an uncle who converted from The Great Religion to Christianity and he is a strong and devout Catholics. I know several Priests who are in the Arab nations today and they ofcourse are strong and devout Catholics. I also know an author who is a Priest today anda actually wrote a book about The Great Religion (I am currently reading it) who was a strong and devout muuslim. He was a muuslim from birth and till today still lives in the middle east but now a Catholic priest.

Is this not a testament that is completely a proof against your saying Is.lam is only about 'accept Isla.m or die?' You see reality from just fallacy?

How about you get it in your head that the Church itself was started by Christ and that these disciples make up the priests of the church, they wrote it down and therefore passed it on. It wasn't attached afterwards my dear, they let us know that they penned it down. Most especially John at the end of his book. He let us know who was writing it.
How about you get to know that these men also had disciples who knew that they wrote these books. How about you get to know that the history of writings in the Church is well kept and the authors are well known because it is passed down in history without a gap in it. Why don't you do some reading on what the contents of the gospels are. Find out what tey talk about and compare it to the writings of ignatius of anitoch
Well since you know the truth, why don't you share it with us?

Tell us which was the Church structure that Jesus (as) sanctioned during his time? I am sure you will say that church is in the heart. Every individual is a church. If this is so, we have about 2.something Billion churches on earth. And every one of them has just one membership, who is also the pastor, etc.

If this is true, whats the word for "Church(s)," in the language that Jesus received revelation? I would be surprised if you say that Jesus never received revelation from God. I think the fact that these gospels differ on material facts are the true testimonies to deviations from whatever Jesus might have preached.




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Why should we believe Muhaamad and the Imams, by what authority do their words carry, other than the authority that they give themselves? Strip away the claim that the Qu'ran is the "word of God", and who in their right mind would still believe it?
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The only human authority in Isla.m is Muhamma.d. If any imam deviate from him, I will not follow that Imam, on that matter. I will only follow a person, step by step, as long he is following M.uhammad, step by step.





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Even in this day and age it is taboo to question the Qu'ran or the prophet. You are to face punishment, shame, torture, and yes even death. An innocent teacher was killed because she threw the Qu'ran (unknowingly) into the trah can. No one will kill you if you throw the Bible in the trash can.
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I wonder if this was so, whether there would hav reaned asingle soul in arabia wich was not Is.lamic? Let me encourage you to the best anmesty given by the noble prophet, upon entering tramuphantly the city of Makka. These are good reads.

As gentle docile, Christianity is, I am sure that the Iraqis better not critique Jesus or christianity in the presence of the foreign Army there. Also in Afghanistan.

Maybe you don't know history but the Christians were the ones persecuted for having their beliefs, and even by your muuuslims. That is why the crusades happened, the muuuslims went about killing Christians and intimidating them (choose The Great Religion or death).

Trust me I know that Christianity has not been perfect, but I can assure you that we have been pushed. It's either we fought back or Christianity was going to be wiped off the face of the earth by muuslims. Thank God we fought back so that the truth cannot be hidden. No wonder Isl'am is always trying to ridicule us and trying to find faults in us. That is the only way that you can prove the Qu'ran to be true. Truth should definitely learn to stand on its own.

Who is wiping out Christianity off the face of the earth, Musl.ims? Go back to your history books again. Read about Spanish Inquistions, which left no musl.ims in Spain. Read about the Crusades, which killed many mu.slims. How about the 2 world wars; The leaders, Hitler and mussollini, for the most part were Catholics. Today, the Christians and the Jews are standing firm to keep the mu.slims the world over united. Why? They are so against the office of Kaliphah being reestablished. Why? Is Europe not united now? Is Asia not trying to unite? Why the case of the mus.lims? Thanks to the hypocratic leadership of Mus.lims, the Kings, Amirs, Presidents, Prime Ministers are eager to dance to the tune of earthly gods, rather than the Command of God in AlQur'an.






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Once again stop taking the beliefs of Isl'am and applying it to Christians.
Maybe you haven't heard of Martin Luther, the greatest rebel in Christianity, newsflash, he wasn't killed, and because of him today you have the protestants. I wonder if Is'lam had a Martin Luther, he would survive. For some reason I think not, if a woman did not survive innocently putting the Qu'ran in the trash, a rebel won't survive.
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And Catholism never vilified him, enough. The greatest enemy of Catholism, and the Protestants are always following his footsteps against Catholism. Yet they borrowed from the Catholics. Is this how they show their ingratitude?

You need to read about the founder of Ammadiyyah "sect," in Is.lam. I wonder if he was killed? How about the founder of "Shia" sect?



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I am really loving your questions. How did Muhaamad know that it was an angel that was speaking to him? How did he even know that God existed? Why did he not think that he was running mad and was having nightmares?
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Don't forget that when he first had the encounter, apart from what he said happed, in a short time his wife Khadijah (RA) took him to her own cousin, Waraqah. After he listened to his story, Waraqah said it is the same Namu (angel, spiritual being) that appeared to Moses, was what appeared to M.uhammad. Unless you are now going to claim that Moses was not a prophet, I will have to see how you will explain that Mu.hammad was not a prophet based on the appearances of this "Same" namu to each men?

Don't the believe of God existence within Bini culture, before Christianity or Is.lam? The Hindus will say the God, and they raise their heads up. Ask a hindu on campus. The Atheist (Huxley, KAG, etc) are arguing against Him. Why? They know that He exists, except that they try to block Him off from their consciousness.

And in Surah Najm (The star), addresses you insanity suggestion. Please do your research.




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How are we to separate the mistakes of man from the thoughts of God? How could we do this without being inspired ourselves? If the original writers were inspired, then the translators should have been too, and so should be the men who tell us what the bible means.
Good now apply these same questions to the Qu'ran.
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Except that the AlQur'an is only in Arabic. You will read that directly in many chapters of this noble Book. But Surah Yusuf, claerly states this. Translation into any other languages is just that, translations. But what is the original language of the Biblical revelation: Moses revelations have to be made to him, in his language for his people. Then Jesus language must be the language he received his revelation that he preached to his people, who spoke the same language. No? Where is that text in that pure semitic language? See the difficulty?

1 The Bible has prophecies that came true, that is how people came to believe
2 The Bible has incidents of when men asked God to prove himself, he did, people came to believe
3 The Bible has events that took place in history, Jews, Egyptians, Romans, and more, the history of these nations tell the same story of the same events, people came to believe.

1) AlQur'an has be last proven events that surpass what the Bible says; The site of Masjid Aqsa in Jerusalem was stated so and we see that it is today.

2) I hope that you are not saying people saw God? Your Bible itself goes againt ths very notion, with the verse that no eyes have ever seen God. But in the AlQur'an, we see the proofs of the existence of God in His creations.

3) If this is so, then why hasn't the Jews not entered Christianity, in large mumbers? By the way the events that occurred in Egypt was written in the Old testament part of the Bible, leaving out major details like the recovery of the body of Pharaoh. AlQur'an provide that detail and the reason for it, a sin for future generations of people.


~Lady~: I am not a good man, yet. But am Struggling (Jihad) with myself to improve and hopefully get there before I die. Please don't forget that Mu.slims are different from the religion itself. We struggle and no one can say that he knows the future. This is why humility is very important. I do hope that you open your heart to what is good. Beg God the Creator that He leads you to the right path before you die. You are young, and your whole life is still ahead of you. However, when you are going through it, daily, know that no one is guaranteed the follow moment, just the next future. This is all I have to say

I am grateful to God Who had afforded me this time to respond to you. If you get anything good in it, it is from All.ah. The rest is from me and Shaitan, the accursed. I ask God to forgive me my sins and protect me from the Devil. Amin.[quote][/quote]

Frizy:
@ajadrage If this doesn't sound true to you, then there is nothing good that you can believe in. This gospel narrates what Jesus actually said -uneditted. By a disciple not by someone who saw him not. Which is to be believed if you're honest?

On the contrary, there is something good that I believe in and that is Jesus Christ and the one whom sent him forth, his daddy who incidentally happens to be the almighty creator God Jehovah that has never changed and never would from time indefinite to time indefinite.

First of all, this is not an attempt to engage you in any sort of argument as I do not see the reason for that in the very least, however, since you have laid an allegation that there is nothing good that I can believe in, I deign to make a rebuttal by saying emphatically that there is actually some good news that I believe in. This news has been told since the days of the fall of man, right in the garden of Eden when a promise of a seed was made that would restore the balance of the system (Genesis 3:15). This same promise was made to Noah after the destruction of the wicked by the flood (Genesis 9:8,9). The records of the covenant which Abraham had with this God is common knowledge to the three Faiths of the book and it is a promise that has been given to the faithful ones of old as recorded in Hebrews 11:11-40)

The entire premise of the good news is that Jesus Christ as "the son of the almighty God" is the simplest and most stress free way to being a part of the emergent system of things after this wicked system must have passed away. So, anything to the contrary is somewhat hard for me to swallow much less this "Barnabas gospel". rather than it being a part of the good news, it reeks of fallacy from the pits of confusion to me as it has wholly contradicted all accounts as recorded in the bible that lends credence to the fact of the man Jesus being the son of God (John 17:3, 3:13, 10:36, 4:25, Luke 24:44-48 amongst others. Please ensure you look through the texts and compare with your wonderful new gospel.

In the entire story of redemption, there has always been one unmistakable thread, and to feign ignorance of that recurring theme implies that the faith that one subscribes to might not be the one that was bequeathed to the apostles and other faithful upon the ascension of the saviour into heaven (Acts 1:3). It is no longer news that the practice of christianity has been hijacked over the centuries, right even in the days of Jesus's contemporaries, but it is a gift of the spirit that the authentic message of the gospel and the chronology of the unfolding of the ultimate mystery of the grand designer, the father of Jesus Christ and our father, the almighty, one true and living God is documented for the perusal of rational, reasonable mankind today.

At least John was regarded as a credible authority in the early congregation of the faithful, had he gleaned any new insight, he would have documented as much prior to his earthly demise as he was known to have been well into his nineties at the time of his writing the Apocalypse which is regarded as the last credible writing of any witness to Christs life and times, he might have corroborated some of Barnabas claims were they to have been factual and moreover, I seriously doubt that Barnabas that walked with the faithful would have written such words sha .

Methinks however, that this Barnabas thing is a contraption of an intelligent mind intent on some mischief bent on compromising the sovereignty of Jehovah as the God who has placed all authority under his son, for to whom did he say "sit at my right hand until I make thy enemies thy footstool".

So, y'all beware, if one wants to attempt a conversion to another faith, be converted with facts as the teachings of Christ cannot be embellished with ill thought out smear campaigns at their veracity. He that has an ear, let him hear. And mind you, one other good thing I believe in, I actually believe that Jesus really wants to save you Frizy and all mankind at that

ajadrage:

On the contrary, there is something good that I believe in and that is Jesus Christ and the one whom sent him forth, his daddy who incidentally happens to be the almighty creator God Jehovah that has never changed and never would from time indefinite to time indefinite.

First of all, this is not an attempt to engage you in any sort of argument as I do not see the reason for that in the very least, however, since you have laid an allegation that there is nothing good that I can believe in, I deign to make a rebuttal by saying emphatically that there is actually some good news that I believe in. This news has been told since the days of the fall of man, right in the garden of Eden when a promise of a seed was made that would restore the balance of the system (Genesis 3:15). This same promise was made to Noah after the destruction of the wicked by the flood (Genesis 9:8,9). The records of the covenant which Abraham had with this God is common knowledge to the three Faiths of the book and it is a promise that has been given to the faithful ones of old as recorded in Hebrews 11:11-40)

The entire premise of the good news is that Jesus Christ as "the son of the almighty God" is the simplest and most stress free way to being a part of the emergent system of things after this wicked system must have passed away. So, anything to the contrary is somewhat hard for me to swallow much less this "Barnabas gospel". rather than it being a part of the good news, it reeks of fallacy from the pits of confusion to me as it has wholly contradicted all accounts as recorded in the bible that lends credence to the fact of the man Jesus being the son of God (John 17:3, 3:13, 10:36, 4:25, Luke 24:44-48 amongst others. Please ensure you look through the texts and compare with your wonderful new gospel.

In the entire story of redemption, there has always been one unmistakable thread, and to feign ignorance of that recurring theme implies that the faith that one subscribes to might not be the one that was bequeathed to the apostles and other faithful upon the ascension of the saviour into heaven (Acts 1:3). It is no longer news that the practice of christianity has been hijacked over the centuries, right even in the days of Jesus's contemporaries, but it is a gift of the spirit that the authentic message of the gospel and the chronology of the unfolding of the ultimate mystery of the grand designer, the father of Jesus Christ and our father, the almighty, one true and living God is documented for the perusal of rational, reasonable mankind today.

At least John was regarded as a credible authority in the early congregation of the faithful, had he gleaned any new insight, he would have documented as much prior to his earthly demise as he was known to have been well into his nineties at the time of his writing the Apocalypse which is regarded as the last credible writing of any witness to Christs life and times, he might have corroborated some of Barnabas claims were they to have been factual and moreover, I seriously doubt that Barnabas that walked with the faithful would have written such words sha .

Methinks however, that this Barnabas thing is a contraption of an intelligent mind intent on some mischief bent on compromising the sovereignty of Jehovah as the God who has placed all authority under his son, for to whom did he say "sit at my right hand until I make thy enemies thy footstool".

So, y'all beware, if one wants to attempt a conversion to another faith, be converted with facts as the teachings of Christ cannot be embellished with ill thought out smear campaigns at their veracity. He that has an ear, let him hear. And mind you, one other good thing I believe in, I actually believe that Jesus really wants to save you Frizy and all mankind at that

One thing I want you to understand is God has no son. It is a mere deceit, and God Himself doesn't like to be referred to has a father of any. He is the Creator and there is none who He cannot chastise because of his sins. The belief that tells a man that God sent a son to die for his sins and that a man is God is a blaspheme. I advise to open your heart to the truth, don't keep your mind closed. I opened this thread to highlight that God is One, and if you've been reading the chapters you must have seen some truth only if you wish your heart remained sealed. Am a Mus'lim and I believe in the Ko'ran the words are Great and none could speak that Great except God himself. What makes me very interested in this gospel is that it shows the way of christ himself. Am not saying you should take all in the gospel, but if you truly love Christ then read it. That will make you have the monotheism belief in God and you'll further engage in the reading of the Glorious Kor'an.

Frizy…we are all striving to guide our fellow family, relatives, friends, and neighbors inshal’alah by the will of Al’lah subhana taalah he is the only one have Mercy on us. We pray to enlighten and guides our beloved loves one into right path. May all the peace, the beneficence, and the blessings of Al’alah be upon us all . Amen.[/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000][color=#990000][/color]

samba123:

Frizy…we are all striving to guide our fellow family, relatives, friends, and neighbors inshal’alah by the will of Al’lah subhana taalah he is the only one have Mercy on us. We pray to enlighten and guides our beloved loves one into right path. May all the peace, the beneficence, and the blessings of Al’alah be upon us all . Amen.[/color][color=#990000][/color][color=#990000][color=#990000][/color]

Amin, truly it is All'ah to guide.

Frizy:

One thing I want you to understand is God has no son.

How are you making us "understand" or do you know the meaning of that word? It implies you are not merely parroting the same tired old cliches your imaam's have drummed into your head but are actually going the extra mile to EXPLAIN WHY that is so.

Frizy:

It is a mere deceit, and God Himself doesn't like to be referred to has a father of any.

It is mere deceit - why? Because Moohammad said so WITHOUT PROOF?
God doesnt like being refered to as father of any? - Perhaps that applies to ur fraudulent al'lah . . . the biblical God calls Himself the FATHER OF THE FATHERLESS.
Psalm 68:5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.

Frizy:

He is the Creator and there is none who He cannot chastise because of his sins.

your own "god" is just full of threats of chastisement . . . does he ever show love at all?

Frizy:

The belief that tells a man that God sent a son to die for his sins and that a man is God is a blaspheme.

another false statement without proof. Another mere parroting of is'lamic blasphemy.

Frizy:

I advise to open your heart to the truth, don't keep your mind closed. I opened this thread to highlight that God is One, and if you've been reading the chapters you must have seen some truth only if you wish your heart remained sealed.

You opened it to highlight muuslim hypocrisy and penchant for fraud.

Frizy:

Am a Mus'lim and I believe in the Ko'ran the words are Great and none could speak that Great except God himself.

There are no miracles in the ko'ran, no words of eternal comfort (moohammad wasnt even sure if he would make jaanat), it is filled with curses for jews, threats to infidels, strict and unwieldy rules for muuslims, lies against the bible, scientific fallacies, historical innaccuracies and unfathomable terror . . . none could speak that horribly except satan himself.

Frizy:

What makes me very interested in this gospel is that it shows the way of christ himself.

It doesnt. What interests you in this gospel is that it is a fraud that portrays the isl'amic idea of Christ. If you were truly interested in the way of Christ you'd be reading the 4 authentic gospels not reading one that is widely acknowledged as being a forgery.

Frizy:

Am not saying you should take all in the gospel, but if you truly love Christ then read it. That will make you have the monotheism belief in God and you'll further engage in the reading of the Glorious Kor'an.

Why have i NEVER seen you or any muuslim for that matter create a thread solely dedicated to posting verses of the quuran? Why SO MUCH, UNDUE and UNHEALTHY fixation on the bible?

@4Him: Thanks for your challenge. I will now open a thread where AlQur'an verses are posted. I also welcome your comments and others who are nonMusli.ms in there. I have tried to encourage ~Lady~ that we do that, but now with your very suggestion to do so, it is now a must. But first, help me to explain the below, coming from you as a response entries to Frizy.

How are you making us "understand" or do you know the meaning of that word? It implies you are not merely parroting the same tired old cliches your imaam's have drummed into your head but are actually going the extra mile to EXPLAIN WHY that is so.

Since you know the meaning of the "Word," I think and Frizy doesn't, please give us a robust meaning of it. I need to know and I will also ask you to explain any part of your meaning that may be unclear. Afterall, I am only human. I will look at your entries from what is humanly acceptable, within what knowledge is available to humans.

It is mere deceit - why? Because Moohammad said so WITHOUT PROOF?
God doesnt like being refered to as father of any? - Perhaps that applies to your fraudulent al'lah . . . the biblical God calls Himself the FATHER OF THE FATHERLESS.
Psalm 68:5 A father of the fatherless, and a judge of the widows, is God in his holy habitation.

So with your best material to support any claim that is different from M.uhammad (as), proof to us how He is Father? Your quote from the Psalm, specifically Ps. 68:5, shows a generic statement at best. It does not show any greater and special attachment to anyone. You call me Uncle, and you and me know that it is very likely that we may not be related. Hence, I may not be an Uncle to you regardless of both of us sharing Ijebu Ode bloodlines. Your calling me Uncle, is just a term of respect and endearment. You could also call me father, since I have somebody in your age group as a son. But, again, I am not your father, but it will be because of our love for each other, and nothing more.

But wait. If your God is A father of the fatherless, it means that those who have fathers, He will not be their father, until they lose their fathers? Is that not unfair advantage or discrimination that is not substantiative, truly unwaranted? Lets leave the widows and those who are still spouses part of your quote above alone, since it will mean another exact unfairness to one group while the other enjoys this benefit!

your own "god" is just full of threats of chastisement . . . does he ever show love at all?

Sure, He shows love. He promises paradise for believers. He said that no one should be hopeless about His Mercy/Forgiveness. He says that He forgives every sin, if repentance is asked. What else is there. Afterall, we are seeking His Paradise after death. He presents before us the road map to paradise and the avoidance of Hellfire. Do you have a God that can match His easy pass (EZ Pass), with the usual blood letting? If you have, name Him and provide your proof. This is truth that we are seeking. Enough of the none answers!

another false statement without proof. Another mere parroting of is'lamic blasphemy.

Please present your proof, since you have it and Frizy does not. Disproof him, now. I need material proof that I can put to test.

You opened it to highlight muuslim hypocrisy and penchant for fraud.

Proof Frizy wrong, here and now about son and father. He said Jesus is not a son of god. he said God is not a Father of any. Proof Frizy wrong. I want you to present a good argument. Not just empty and immaterial presentations.

There are no miracles in the ko'ran, no words of eternal comfort (moohammad wasnt even sure if he would make jaanat), it is filled with curses for jews, threats to infidels, strict and unwieldy rules for muuslims, lies against the bible, scientific fallacies, historical innaccuracies and unfathomable terror . . . none could speak that horribly except satan himself.

Just to let you know, Surah Nasr, Chapter 110 talks about a time when human beings will be entering Is.lam in drove. We see that happening right now. (Please proof your Father and son relationship to us). Surah Fajr (The Dawn), its very last Verse spoke about the servant whose soul God Almighty is well pleased with. That servant is tolld to enter Paradise. I hope you know that God was not addressing a Christian in the verse? And the Jews deserve curses if they do not change their ways. With all the Mercies that God had shown on them, they are still rebellious. Heck they did not even believe Jesus son of mary, who came from them. Didn't they think to have made his soul accursed by claiming that they had crucified him to death? Am ashamed of you. Didn't you say Jesus is your god? Then proof it to me.

By the way, since you claimed that your Bible was long written before the AlQur'an, it will be a surprise to you that in Timothy, the word "Infidel," is in there. You will not hear the word infedel in the AlQur'an ( A Book still in its Original language. It is in this Language that we accept AlQur'an in, and no other language. Proof that Infidel is written in Arabic AlQur'an for me, please!). And please don't worry about the strict rules for mu.slims. Paradise is not cheap. And by the way, there is no "Bible," as a word in the Bible. However, it is in AlQur'an, as well as Taurah, Sabur and Injil. You don't have Trinity in the Bible. But it is in the AlQur'an, where there is warning to not say that God is One of Three! You are claiming what you do not have. Will that not be a claim that is false?

You can even proof that the AlQur'an is wrong in any scientific presentation. Know that a mere hundreds of years ago, it was believed that the earth was flat. then a man said that it was not flat but round/ spherical. He was killed for that statement, was he not. Just because the knowledge we have today is not enough to agree with the advnced conclusion that the AlQur'an presents, it does not mean that it is wrong. It simply means we are not knowledgeable to know yet. You will agree with me that there are still more knowledge to discover in the future? The AlQur'an says that Adam was created in heaven, and not a pice of land in Iraq that the Bible calls Garden of Eden. Please tell me the location of that piece of land and show us the Apple tree that Adam and Eve ate from! You will not be able to show either. Of course, I have told you were Adam was created, heaven. Tilt your head and look up. The cloud and distance coupled with limited vision does not allow any to see heaven, the outermost level is beyond the farthest known and yet to be discovered things under it!

Since you mention satan, I just have to remind you that the Bible says that serpent is the deceiver of Adam and his wife. It therefore means that Serpent is satan? Then it must not have any goodness. But we see that even pet stores sell snakes and people buy them as pets. Snakes aare even beneficial to the farmers, since they eat the rodents. You will therefore see that your Bible is off the mark about snake/Serpent in general on this.

It doesnt. What interests you in this gospel is that it is a fraud that portrays the isl'amic idea of Christ. If you were truly interested in the way of Christ you'd be reading the 4 authentic gospels not reading one that is widely acknowledged as being a forgery.

What is authentic to you, does not really means it is true. Afterall, RSV of 1953 ids different from any RSV. Check it out. Then that of Catholics, the mother of Protestants, is different from any of the Protestants. King James Version is different from the 1953 RSV. You want me to go on? And I am making a prediction, God Willing, there will still be other revisions, editions, etc of these Bible Copies that I listed. I will also remind you that there are still others that I intentionally left out, different from any of these above.

Why have i NEVER seen you or any muuslim for that matter create a thread solely dedicated to posting verses of the quuran? Why SO MUCH, UNDUE and UNHEALTHY fixation on the bible?

Thanks. One thread coming up. I do hope you will join in. Please provide proof(s) for how some man becomes God begotten son? Or God son, if the begotten is too deep for you. But please allow me to ask pertinent questions that are direct to the very subject.

One thing I want you to understand is God has no son. It is a mere deceit, and God Himself doesn't like to be referred to has a father of any

Have you called him Father and he threaten you? It amazes me how people know what it is God likes to be called as if they've actually spoken to him. Your prophet is still very questionable. I have asked for answers but all I have received is the Bible is false. For the sake of making a point, if the Bible does in fact ahppen to be false, how does that make the Qu'ran true?

I have clearly called him Father and Son and Holy Spirit and time and time again he answers my call, there is evidence.
So I will continue to call him Father, Son, Holy Spirit

What makes me very interested in this gospel is that it shows the way of christ himself.

But Christ called Muhaamad themessiah and the Qu'ran calls Christ the messiah, my dear how then does this gospel tell the true way of Christ himself?
There are obvious geographical errors in it, how then is it the true ways of Christ. The story of Mary's birth contradicts the Qu'ran how then does it show the true ways of Christ.
Please open your eyes. If this gospel is true then the Qu'ran is false.

By the way you have no idea what Christ means do you?

That will make you have the monotheism belief in God and you'll further engage in the reading of the Glorious Kor'an.

Christians do have a monothiesm belief in God, screaming that Christians have three Gods does not make it true, sorry but it doesn't. The Trinity is still ONE GOD. like it or not, it is. Stop making claims that the Christians don't make and claiming it's a Christian belief. Stop professing the wrong belief of the Christians.


You advise people to analyse their faith, have YOU analysed yours?
One more time, hoe does the Bible being false make the Qu'ran true?

Can you please show me the trinity concept in the Torah?

Pronouns, where God speaking, uses "us" and "our": Genesis 3:22 Genesis 11:7 Isaiah 6:8. The most important reference is Genesis 1:26-27; it is here where the plurality is used in connection with the very nature of God. This last reference is the most important (and compelling) one because here God uses plural forms in the context of his own "image and likeness."

Genesis 3:22
And the LORD God said, "The man has now become like one of us, knowing good and evil. He must not be allowed to reach out his hand and take also from the tree of life and eat, and live forever."

The plural form for "Lord" used frequently in the Old Testament:'adonai ("Lord," literally, "my Masters". The vowel in the last syllable of 'adonai was apparently lengthened by rabbis in the post-New Testament period. This is thought to have been done to sharpen the distinction between earthly lords and the Lord God

The Old Testament had a singular term for God, Eloah, which they occasionally used, but the vast majority of the time the plural form of God, Elohim, is used throughout the Old Testament. Had there been only be two persons within God, the Hebrews could have used a dual form Elohiayim, which was typically (although not always) used of things that occured in pairs

(Don't try to use Elohim to define the "we" in the Qu'ran)

Even though the Old Testament teaches that God is "one," (Deuteronomy 6:4) this does not conflict in any way with Trinitarian beliefs. On the contrary, it actually helps to affirm them. One of the most compelling examples in the Old Testament of the composite sense of "one" is found in Genesis 2:24. Two people (created in the "image" of God) become "one flesh" in the marriage union (and thus a sense of the "image" in a composite sense). The use of the Hebrew word for "one" (eXad) in other passages similarly demonstrates that this word means "one entity" rather than a strictly single, solitary thing.

Genesis 2:24
For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and they will become one flesh

The Old Testament presents striking examples of a Being who, although He appears in the form of a man, acts and speaks like God and is referred to as God. Mysteriously, He is both identified as God and distinguished from God. We find this in passages such as Genesis 16:7-13; 18-19; 22:11-18; Exodus 3:2-6; 23:20-23; Judges 6:11-14, 20-22; 13:21-23). Note also how Zechariah 12:8 equates God and the Angel of the Lord. These Theophanies were prepartory for the incarnation in that they anticipated the coming of a Heavenly Visitor who would one day be both truly God and man

Genesis 16:7-13
The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, "Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?"
      "I'm running away from my mistress Sarai," she answered.

9 Then the angel of the LORD told her, "Go back to your mistress and submit to her." 10 The angel added, "I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count."

11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:
       "You are now with child
       and you will have a son.
       You shall name him Ishmael, [a]
       for the LORD has heard of your misery.

12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
       his hand will be against everyone
       and everyone's hand against him,
       and he will live in hostility
       toward all his brothers."

13 She gave this name to the LORD who spoke to her: "You are the God who sees me," for she said, "I have now seen the One who sees me."

Exodus 3:2-6
There the angel of the LORD appeared to him in flames of fire from within a bush. Moses saw that though the bush was on fire it did not burn up. 3 So Moses thought, "I will go over and see this strange sight—why the bush does not burn up."

4 When the LORD saw that he had gone over to look, God called to him from within the bush, "Moses! Moses!"
      And Moses said, "Here I am."

5 "Do not come any closer," God said. "Take off your sandals, for the place where you are standing is holy ground." 6 Then he said, "I am the God of your father, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac and the God of Jacob." At this, Moses hid his face, because he was afraid to look at God.

Isaiah 9:6 He is a son and child, but also the "mighty God."
For to us a child is born,
       to us a son is given,
       and the government will be on his shoulders.
       And he will be called
       Wonderful Counselor, [a] Mighty God,
       Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Daniel 7:13-14 This passage forms the background behind Christ's use of the Messianic title "Son of Man." Note that the contexts of Psalm 2 and Daniel 7 have identical strands of thought: the inheriting of all the kingdoms of the earth. The word "Son of Man" does not here mean "a mortal man"--one from among the "sons of men." The point here is not that the Person is perfectly human. The significance of the title "Son of Man' in this passage is fourfold:


His exalted personality as the One who comes from heaven and opposes the beastly human powers, which come from earth (Daniel 7:3)

His advent in conjunction with the reappearance of the theophanic glory cloud (7:13),

His free access to the 'One who is an ancient of days' (God the Father, 7:13), and

His universal and everlasting reign (7:14).

Daniel 7:13-14

"In my vision at night I looked, and there before me was one like a son of man, coming with the clouds of heaven. He approached the Ancient of Days and was led into his presence. 14 He was given authority, glory and sovereign power; all peoples, nations and men of every language worshiped him. His dominion is an everlasting dominion that will not pass away, and his kingdom is one that will never be destroyed.

Psalm 45:6-7

Your throne, O God, will last for ever and ever;
       a scepter of justice will be the scepter of your kingdom.

7 You love righteousness and hate wickedness;
       therefore God, your God, has set you above your companions
       by anointing you with the oil of joy.

All three Persons of the Trinity can be seen in Isaiah 63:8-10, but most importantly we see here the personality of the Holy Spirit. He is "vexed, grieved" by disobedience. This verb in Hebrew is always used in conjuntion with persons (or God and gods); never of inanimate things

He said, "Surely they are my people,
       sons who will not be false to me";
       and so he became their Savior.

9 In all their distress he too was distressed,
       and the angel of his presence saved them.
       In his love and mercy he redeemed them;
       he lifted them up and carried them
       all the days of old.

10 Yet they rebelled
       and grieved his Holy Spirit.
       So he turned and became their enemy
       and he himself fought against them

I am not God sister Efeosa but I gave you verse from your book and if you care, I can give you Q uranic verse butressing the above quote lifted from your bible. You can go to Chapter 3, 5 etc of my Holy Book and educate yourself and tell me your (Christian) position before God.

Sir you stated that we put everything into our religion and we have nothing to show for it. So that must mean that you have something to show for your own religion and I am asking you to show it.

A verse in the Qu'ran is not proof of it. Certainly you can SHOW. Promises is not showing. Making a promise to me is not showing me, fulfilling that promises is showing.
It is promise that you will make heaven, well have you made heaven yet? WHy don't you show us what heaven is, since you have made it?
It's a promise right, so that means it is there for show?

You are from Benin. Tell me how many swords were put against the ancient city? I hope you have heard of the history of what the English man did, with his Bible on one hand and gunon the other?

I know of my history. I also know that while the British justified slavery with the Bible, it is not because of the spread of Christianity that they invaded. While with Is'lam it is because of the spread of Is'lam that they murdered people. The British did not say choose Christianity or die. The spread of Christianity was not the heart of the invasion. But the spread of Is'lam was the heart of the invasions. Big difference.

If the Arabs had said to the Arab, choose I.slam or death, would there remain any significant, non Mu.slims in that part of the world?

At that time there was none. Now it is a bit permissible, but at that time, there was none.

I already know that you are just making a religious talking points. The substance behind it, is zero. How did Is.lam pilaged Malaysia and Indonesia, etc, except by just good human to human relationships? How did Isla.m entered Ibadan, Ijebu Ode (my home town), Abeokuta, etc and indeed lagos? How many people killed by maurading arabs or yoruba on yoruba killings? Muy mother's homtown of Owo, a mere 77 miles to Benin, how did is.lam enteed it?

Is'lam had already spread enough. It still doesn't change the fact that the main purpose of invasions was the spread of Is'lam. Christianity was spread because they were beinf persecuted, that's how it got to the english in the first place. So at the beginning it wasn't about violence, that cannot be said for I'slam.

I think You had taken I.slam for Christian Spain, under Queen Isabella and King Ferdnand, in the period of Spanish Polgrom dubbed Spanish Inquisition. Was there a mu.slim spare to remain alive in this madness of the Christian elites? Go and study the history of the world and then come back for good dialogue on this.

I believe this was after the muuslims had brutally invaded and killed many Christians and Jews and the Christians started fighting back. Maybe this continued because of that. Ofcourse you will forget that piece of history.

Do I condone the killings, absolutely not, but it still remains that from onset the spread of Christianity wasn't by force. The spread of Is'lam from onset was by force.


I will be back, have to go now.

@4Him:

4 Him (m)
USA
Posts: 1831

Offline

Re: The Gospel Of Barnabas(the True Forgotten Gospel)
« #357 on: June 13, 2008, 11:59 PM »

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote
M.uhammad's followers by faith walked on water while every one of them was riding on their horses.

1. What is the definition of this bogus "faith" in the quuran?
2. Where is it recorded that any muuslim walked on water? Are you begining to invent tales again?
3. If they were walking on water, where were the others riding their horses? On water too?

David. Aburo. When I said the companions walked on water, above, please read it correctly. They did it all of them riding their horses. This means there weight and that of their horses were on the surfaces of the water. There was no one on foot. Get it, brother man? Make yourown research on Google. Its the story of the Companions. Check it out. I am very sure of what am talking about.

Quote
This is a big deal for you?

unsubstantiated LIES is a big deal for me.

And you are still a christian? Is there any greater lie than saying that God is One of Three? Think about it, my dear brother.

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The followers entered a jungle and they yelled to the animals: Oh you animals, we are followers of M.uhammad, the Prophet of God, we need this land (Jungle), we now ask you to vacate this jungle for our use, you and your offsprings! The sahabahs saw the lions and all the wild animals with their family leaving out the jungle as they were commanded

Are there Lions in the arabian desert? Lions can only be found in the jungles of Africa and India . . . did the prophet's followers see spiritual lions?

I think you did not remember the lion that Samson killed. In the middle east. My bro. Chill out. I can tell you more than you know from the Bible.

olabowale:

@4Him:
David. Aburo. When I said the companions walked on water, above, please read it correctly. They did it all of them riding their horses. This means there weight and that of their horses were on the surfaces of the water. There was no one on foot. Get it, brother man? Make yourown research on Google. Its the story of the Companions. Check it out. I am very sure of what am talking about.

silly. Why cant you post the relevant verses? Since when did we start refering you to google things on the bible?

@4Him: Aburo, ma da mi laa muu.O ki nshe obinrin kee. Obinrin ni o ma nfe daa okunrin laa mu. (AS Baba. Baba kee; thats some old stuff). About the history of the sahaba. It was to open Persia. I have many things I could tell you, from I.slam that will blow your mind. But what will be the benefit to you. When your heart is soft enough, and it has received Is.lam, I will still be alive, inshaAllah. We really can talk about this.
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Salman reported that the Prophet said: "Nothing but supplication averts the decree, and nothing but righteousness increases life," and "Your Lord is munificent and generous, and is ashamed to turn away empty the hands of a servant when he raises them to him." Tirmidhi transmitted them.

At-Tabari recounts that in the year 16 A.H. the Muslim army turned to the Persian front. In order to confront the Persian king at one point the Muslim army found itself on the opposite bank of the great Tigris River. The commander of the army, Sa`d Ibn Abi Waqqas, following a dream, ordered the entire army to plunge into the rushing river. Many people were afraid and hung back. Sa`d, with Salman by his side, prayed first: "May Allah grant us victory and defeat His enemy." Then Salman prayed: "Islam generates good fortune. By Allah, crossing rivers has become as easy for the Muslims as crossing deserts. By Him in whose hand lies Salman's soul, may the soldiers emerge from the water in the same numbers in which they entered it." Sa`d and Salman then plunged into the Tigris. It is reported that the river was covered with horses and men. The horses swam and when they tired the river floor seemed to rise up and support them until they regained their breath. To some it seemed that the horses rode effortlessly on the waves. They emerged on the other bank, as Salman had prayed, having lost nothing from their equipment but one tin cup, and no one having drowned.

They went on to take the Persian capital. Salman acted as spokesman and said to the conquered Persians: "I have the same origin as you. I shall be compassionate toward you. You have three options. You may embrace Islam, then you will be our brethren and you will have the same privileges and obligations as we. Or you may pay the Jizyah tax and we will govern you fairly. Or we will declare war on you." The Persians, having witnessed the miraculous crossing of the Muslim army, accepted the second alternative.
Unquote.

David, I know you will abandone this topic, and now move to another mundane one. You see what arrogance does. Instead of facing the truth, you will quickly jump to another issue.

olabowale:

At-Tabari recounts that in the year 16 A.H.

why is this so great a "miracle" not recorded in the quuran? Could it be because it is nothing but a mere legend dressed up as miracles?
Where is this "miracle" recorded elsewhere in history if indeed it happened?

As for your dancing around God being a Father issue, i merely provided just one of the numerous verses about God being OUR FATHER. . . here are a lot more . . .

Matthew 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Luke 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 3:11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
2 Thessalonians 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

@4Him:

Quote from: olabowale on Today at 06:45:10 AM
At-Tabari recounts that in the year 16 A.H.

why is this so great a "miracle" not recorded in the quuran? Could it be because it is nothing but a mere legend dressed up as miracles?
Where is this "miracle" recorded elsewhere in history if indeed it happened?

Since you did not even accept something this simple and not that its so unique, anyway (remember that the Bible claimed that he had walked on water? The only people who saw him were his companions. Even those companions could not even walk on water!), how then do you expect us, rational minds, the same rational mind you just applied by which you made the subtle opinion of the musl.ims records being a matter of mere legend, but which is dressed up in miracle, to now accept the Trinity as a possible reality? Remember that you had said that it is not recorded in AlQur'an, so it may not happen, but you dont even believe anything from the AlQur'an anyway. Now watch this, Trinity does not appear anywhere in the Bible. If its not there it aint there. Then tell me where Trinity is recorded anywhere in history. I guess those who may postulate any idea that resemble multple godheads are the obvious pagans, who you do not want to deal with.

But of course, borrowing the undevined ideas is another thing entirely.

As for your dancing around God being a Father issue, i merely provided just one of the numerous verses about God being OUR FATHER. . . here are a lot more . . .

Matthew 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.

So the one who has the absolute "will," is not Jesus, based on this verse? And that is the One who is in heaven, while jesus is on earth, and probably the speaker. You will see that since you are trying to merge two separate entities together, in other part of the bible, even though they are even in different planes, here above Verse, you will see that it will meaning to it, the ease of which the word "father," is used.

Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.

Again, Jesus on earth, as shown in the above verse, is not the one who can forgive you your trespasses. Afterall, didn't Jesus himself make the same prayer, along with his companions?

Luke 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.

Another sign that Jesus is not the one that holds Altimate mercy.

Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

Further evidence that God is different from Jesus.

1 Thessalonians 3:11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
2 Thessalonians 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

Apart from the obvious, I clearly see that the statements above, and many others are showing us the writers are expressing their own opinions and they are not God's nor even Jesus' sayings. This above will also kill the concept that there is no word of others but God alone, in the Bible.

@Lady

I have clearly called him Father and Son and Holy Spirit and time and time again he answers my call, there is evidence.
So I will continue to call him Father, Son, Holy Spirit

Educate yourself here please:

The Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw) said:

"Wherever anyone of you places his faith, there also he would find it".

So, with this saying of the Prophet, as Muslims, we should never be suprised at all if we happen to see a person who believes that by worshipping a certan tree or idol, his demand would be granted, for certainly it would be so, but why? Simply because that is where he places his faith and so, Allah will be granting his demands based on the idol or whatever he believes in.

Similarly, a person who believes in Jesus Christ as his Lord, Saviour and Provider in preference to the Almighty Allah will also definitely have his wordly demands granted as much as Allah wills. Concerning this, the Holy Prophet Muhammed (saw) said:

"None is more patient than Allah against the harmful and annoying words He hears (from the unbelievers among mankind). They ascribe children to Him, (They worship His created beings as Gods and saviours), yet He bestows upon them (sound) health and (worldly) provisions" (Bukhari)

Also, Allah states in the Quran thus:

Quran 7 v 30: They took the satan in preference to Allah, (the almighty) for their God, friend and protector and think that they receive (the true) guidance.

For those who place their faith in Allah, the Almighty and sincerely follow the true Islamic path, Allah says thus:

Quran 2 v 257: Allah is the protector of those who have faith in Him.

https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-16387.96.html

@4him

As for your dancing around God being a Father issue, i merely provided just one of the numerous verses about God being OUR FATHER. . . here are a lot more . . .

Matthew 18:14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish.
Mark 11:25 And when ye stand praying, forgive, if ye have ought against any: that your Father also which is in heaven may forgive you your trespasses.
Luke 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful.
Colossians 1:2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1 Thessalonians 3:11 Now God himself and our Father, and our Lord Jesus Christ, direct our way unto you.
2 Thessalonians 2:16 Now our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father, which hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace,

I read your biblical verses up in relation to the use of the word' father' in which you ignorantly believed that God is your Father. Please can someone be a slave and at the same time be a son?

God even asked you a question that, how could you be His Children when you have no edge than those not calling him by that and he still punish you like others and you should know that you should be different from people not calling him father because it means you must be his children and he shouldnt have left you to be suffering with others (Muslims, atheists etc). The economic hardship shouldnt have been your portion, you ought to have been elevated and we His slaves shouldnt be having any say in anything but you dominating everything. Oro buruku

David, have you come across a verse in the bible that says you should not call anybody here on earth your FATHER but the only one in heaven? Please what do you call your mother's husband and did I hear you say Father?

Lastly David:

"None is more patient than Allah against the harmful and annoying words He hears (from the unbelievers among mankind). They ascribe children to Him, (They worship His created beings as Gods and saviours), yet He bestows upon them (sound) health and (worldly) provisions" (Bukhari)